NTSB Explains 9/11 Pentagon Flight "Black Box" File Time Stamp Discrepancy

The following is a response from the National Transportation Safety Board regarding a June 2008 Request for Correction of factual reports pertaining to American Airlines flight 77 and United Airlines flight 93.

Included is the NTSB's explanation for the flight data recorder (FDR) file for American Airlines flight 77 being completed before the FDR in question was actually recovered and comments regarding statements of interest contained within the NTSB reply.

The following statement is contained within the NTSB response:

"Your request did not provide an explanation of how the alleged errors have affected you."

In fact, the request did describe the affect the alleged errors had upon the requester, indicating that the alleged errors "represent sufficient cause for the requestor to question" the information contained by the NTSB information products in question.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16402

The NTSB response also alleges:

"Nor did it include any evidence that the reports contained incorrect information."

In fact, the request indicated that FDR part and serial number information required to facilitate FDR data downloads was apparently not made available to the NTSB.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16402

Finally, the NTSB response contains an apparently dubious explanation for the fact that the FDR data download file was last modified 4 hours and 15 minutes before the FDR containing the said data was actually recovered:

"Furthermore, however, although neither OMB guidance nor the Safety Board's Information Quality Guidelines require an explanation of Board reports, that may be helpful in this case. You state that the dates and times associated with the flight recorder files pre-date the actual recovery of the recorders. The Vehicle Recorder Division routinely establishes a recorder information project file as soon as an event occurs, which is typically before the recorder is received in the recorder laboratory. Consequently, the date associated with the file may precede the date of the actual recorder recovery. This does not represent an error or a discrepancy in the recorder information."

However, the "FDR" file "American 77" should contain a "modified" or "accessed" time that follows the FDR recovery date and time of Friday, September 14, 2001 at 4am. Instead, the date and time reflected within the file properties for ‎"FDR" file "American 77" is "Thursday, ‎September ‎13, ‎2001, ‏‎11:45:38 PM".

The NTSB FDR file for American Airlines flight 77:

http://www.savefile.com/projects/808622333

"Searchers on Friday found the flight data and cockpit voice recorders from the hijacked plane that flew into the Pentagon and exploded, Department of Defense officials said. The two "black boxes," crucial to uncovering details about the doomed flight's last moments, were recovered at about 4 a.m., said Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance, a Pentagon spokesman."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/14/pentagon-fire.htm


The requesters appeal:

This is an appeal of a September 5, 2008 adverse NTSB determination regarding a June, 2008 Request for Correction submitted by Aidan Monaghan.

The September 5, 2008 NTSB response alleges that this requester for correction did not comply with request guidelines because "your request did not provide an explanation of how the alleged errors have affected you". In fact, the requester did assert that the erroneous NTSB records that are the subject of this correspondence "represent sufficient cause for the requestor to question" the information contained by the NTSB information products in question. The said assertion qualifies as an affirmative response.

Furthermore, the September 5, 2008 NTSB adverse response alleges that the requester did not "include any evidence that the reports contained incorrect information". In fact, the requester did assert that "DCA01MA064 and DCA01MA065 do not list FDR part and serial numbers required to facilitate the FDR the data readouts contained within each report". The NTSB "Flight Data Recorder Handbook for Aviation Accident Investigations" refers to "FDR Part number and Serial Number" information as being required "to facilitate data readout". The absence of unique and required inventory control FDR serial number information from DCA01MA064 and DCA01MA065 demonstrates that information required to generate FDR downloads was not made available to the NTSB. In fact, correspondence obtained by the requester from the NTSB establishes that when known by the NTSB, FDR part and serial number are published within NTSB information products. (see attachment) The requester has therefore determined that authentic FDR data downloads were not performed.

Furthermore, the September 5, 2008 NTSB adverse response alleges "the Vehicle Recorder Division routinely establishes a recorder information project file as soon as an event occurs, which is typically before the recorder is received in the recorder laboratory. Consequently, the date associated with the file may precede the date of the actual recorder recovery." However, the "FDR" file "American 77" contains a "Modified" time and date stamp of "‎Thursday, ‎September ‎13, ‎2001, ‏‎11:45:38 PM" indicating that edits and modifications to this file were completed 4 hours and 15 minutes before the FDR reportedly belonging to American Airlines flight 77 was actually recovered. Therefore, the use by the NTSB of information obtained from the "FDR" file "American 77" in any NTSB information products is obviously in error.

The afore mentioned discrepancies are sufficient for the requester to advise the NTSB to withdraw from the public record the NTSB's Specialists Factual Report of Investigation Digital Flight Data Recorder NTSB Number: DCA01MA064, Specialists Factual Report of Investigation Digital Flight Data Recorder NTSB Number: DCA01MA065 and Study of Autopilot, Navigation Equipment, and Fuel Consumption Activity Based on United Airlines Flight 93 and American Airlines Flight 77 Digital Flight Data Recorder Information.

Another very revealing FOIA! The NTSB's explaination of how

the FDR file was finished before the FDR was found is absurd!

I'm sticking with the idea that the Pentagon was blown-up by a drone, a missile, and/or pre-planted explosives!

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Consider mass emailing truth messages. More info here: http://www.911blogger.com/node/13321

What Time Discrepancy May Suggest

The time discrepancy may suggest that an authentic or non-authentic FDR download was performed well after they claim and that a false time stamp was generated that failed to properly account for the recovery time of the FDR.

This would qualify as tampering.

This would qualify as tampering...

...if this were a case in a court of law. Alas, it isn't. Yet.

I hope you or others have a next step to take, so as to get this into a court of law. This and the other stuff like it, involving all these FOIA requests.

But if you or someone else has a next step to take, it might not be wise to say much about it here, out in public.

time and date stamps of files can be misleading

aidan,

it is a long time you posted your findings but I still would like to add a remark. and ask a question.

I wonder how they delivered you the file in question while maintaining the "original" date and time of the creation of the file ....

what troubles me is that once you make a copy of a file the new files date/time stamp of creation is the date/time of the date/time being at this very moment. this has two implications:

1. when a file is created and subsequently altered then the date/time stamp of modification is always newer than that of the creation of the file. that touches the problems you have with the both stamps being equal.
2. let us put consideration #1 aside - everytime you create a copy of an original file the new file gets the date/time stamp of creation of the date/time when the copy was created!!! this implicates that the new date/time of the time of creation of the file happened "after" the last modification, which sounds a little bit strange: the file was modified before it was created .... but that is "ok", it just happens this way when files are created, modified and some later time copied.

BUT

how **** technically *** could they deliver you a copy of a file with date/time stamps of creation/modification a) being equal and b) with historic values?

make a test for yourself:
right mouse click on desktop - choose new - txt-file.
open it.
add content.
save.
check: the time stamp of modification is newer than that of creation. this is as expected, allright so far.

now right mouse click on the icon of the file and drag it an inch away onto some free space on your desktop, let loose, choose "copy here". check date/time stamp: the "copy" of the original file got a new date/time stamp (time now) of creation, while the modification date/time stamp was kept from the original file, but now we have a modification time "before" the file (the copy of the original file) was created.

so how could you get a copy of the original file on your pc with file-date/time being from the day when the file was created first?
when they sent it via e-mail then the file you stored on your computer MUST have the date/time of when you actually saved it somewhere from within your email-program. when they sent it to you via a burned cd then the file's creation date on the cd must show the date/time of creation of the copy of the file on the cd, and when you copied it from there to some place on your harddisk the file there gets another "new" date of creation.

how can you show (your picture above) a file (which is at minimum the first-generation-copy of the original file which is with the ntsb) with date/time of creation years back?

to me this is a miracle.