David Ray Griffin: The 9/11 Interview with Michael Hess: Evidence that NIST Lied about When He and Barry Jennings Were Rescued

(Hess confirmation extracted by user arie. -rep.)

Via wanttoknow.info - http://www.wanttoknow.info/008/hessjenningswtc7explosiontvbroadcast

The 9/11 Interview with Michael Hess: Evidence that NIST Lied about When He and Barry Jennings Were Rescued

by David Ray Griffin

Shortly after the first strike on the World Trade Center, which occurred at 8:46 AM on 9/11, Michael Hess, New York City’s corporation counsel, and Barry Jennings, the deputy director of the Emergency Services Department of the New York City Housing Authority, headed to the Office of Emergency Management’s Emergency Operating Center, which was on the 23rd floor of WTC 7, where they assumed that Mayor Rudy Giuliani would be. But when Hess and Jennings arrived, the place was empty. Jennings then telephoned someone to ask what they should do and was told that they should leave immediately. Finding that the elevators would not work, they started down the stairs. When they reached the sixth floor, however, there was a powerful explosion beneath them, which, Jennings told the makers of Loose Change Final Cut, [1] caused the landing on which they were standing to give way. Making their way back up to the eighth floor, they were able to break a window and call for help. Hess later reported: “[W]e were trapped on the eighth floor with smoke, thick smoke, all around us, for about an hour and a half [before] the New York Fire Department . . . came and got us out.” [2]

Hess made this statement while being interviewed by Frank Ucciardo of UPN 9 News “on Broadway about a block from City Hall,” almost a half mile from WTC 7. This interview began before noon, most likely at 11:34. The conclusion that it began at 11:34 is based on evidence derived from a DVD containing UPN 9 programs from that morning, in which the Hess interview begins at the 57-minute mark. According to a note on the DVD itself, its video began at 10:37 AM, which would mean that the Hess interview began at 11:34. It is possible, however, that the video might have actually started at 11:00: At the 111-minute mark, the UPN 9 program switched to live coverage by CNN of a Taliban news conference, and the only reference we have been able to find to this coverage indicates that it began at 12:51.[3] This would mean that the video began at 11:00 and the Hess interview, therefore, at 11:57. Nevertheless, whether the earlier or the later starting time is correct, UPN 9 News began interviewing Michael Hess before noon.

However, NIST---the National Institute of Standards and Technology---which was tasked with providing the official explanation of the collapse of the Twin Towers and WTC 7, claimed that the two men were rescued at “12:10 to 12:15 PM.” [4] Why might NIST have made this claim? The reason becomes evident in another NIST document’s statement about Hess and Jennings, which begins:

"With the collapse of the two towers, a New York City employee and a WTC 7 building staff person became trapped inside of WTC 7. The two had gone to the OEM center on the 23rd floor and found no one there. As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed. At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase." [5]

According to NIST, therefore, Hess and Jennings, upon finding the OEM center vacated, started downstairs just after 9:59, when the second tower collapsed. It was this collapse, NIST suggested, that was responsible for the elevator’s failure to work.

As we saw earlier, however, Jennings said that they had arrived at the OEM center shortly after the strike on the North Tower, hence around 9:00 AM. He added, in fact, that he had to have been on the 23rd floor “when the second plane hit” (which was at 9:03). [6] Besides contradicting Jennings’ testimony on that point, the NIST account went on to say:

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 [the North Tower] collapsed, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers came on briefly, and the staircase filled with smoke and debris. The two men went back to the 8th floor broke out a window and called for help." [7]

According to NIST, therefore, what Hess and Jennings took to be an explosion in WTC 7 was really just an effect of the collapse of the North Tower. That collapse occurred at 10:28. Accordingly, if the two men were then trapped for about 90 minutes before they were rescued, this rescue must have occurred at about noon---hence NIST’s claim that they were rescued at “12:10 to 12:15 PM.”

NIST’s timeline is clearly implausible. Claiming that Hess and Jennings started down the stairs after the collapse of the South Tower caused the elevator to fail, NIST implies that it took them 29 minutes---from 9:59 to 10:28---to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor.

NIST’s timeline is also directly contradicted by the testimony of Jennings, who said: “After getting to the 8th floor everything was dark . . . . [B]oth buildings were still standing. Because I looked . . . one way, looked the other way. . . . [B]oth buildings were still standing.” [8]

The strongest evidence against NIST’s timeline, however, is Hess’s interview with UPN 9 News. Defenders of the official account, according to which there were no explosions in WTC 7, might challenge the truth of Jennings’s testimony. But if Hess was giving an interview almost a half mile away before noon, then NIST’s timeline, according to which the two men were not rescued until after noon, is objectively disproved. This is the case whether we accept the 11:34 or the 11:57 starting time for this interview.

Given the fact that the interview occurred almost a half mile from the WTC, it would probably have taken Hess at least a half hour to get there after he was rescued (he surely would have talked to firefighters and other officials about the ordeal before taking off). So if the interview began at 11:34, he and Jennings would have been rescued before 11:05. If the interview began at 11:57, they would have been rescued before 11:30.

In either case, NIST’s explanation for the event that Hess and Jennings took to be a massive explosion in WTC 7 itself is disproved. If the two men were rescued before 11:05 after having been trapped, as Hess said, for about 90 minutes, the event must have occurred before 9:35. Even if they were not rescued until closer to 11:30, the event must have occurred at least by 10:00. In either case, the event could not have been the collapse of the North Tower, which did not occur until 10:28.

That said, I endorse the earlier times---11:34 for the beginning of the Hess interview, 11:05 or earlier for the rescue, and 9:35 or earlier for the explosion---for three reasons. First, the note on the DVD says that the video started at 11:34. Second, the account by Hess and Jennings suggests that they would have reached the 6th floor, where the landing was knocked out from under them, at about 9:15. Third, whereas the later times would suggest that this event occurred around 10:00, Jennings stated, as we saw, that after the explosion occurred and he and Hess made it back up to the 8th floor, the South Tower, which collapsed at 9:59, was still standing.

As I pointed out in The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, a BBC special on WTC 7 that aired July 6, 2008 (“The Conspiracy Files: 9/11--The Third Tower”), distorted Jennings’ testimony. Although he evidently told the BBC interviewer the same story he had earlier told to the makers of Loose Change Final Cut, the BBC placed his testimony within the time-framework suggested by NIST. So, after playing footage in which Jennings described a massive explosion in WTC 7 (which was probably at about 9:15), the BBC says: “At 10:28, the North Tower collapses. . . . Tower 7 takes a direct hit. . . . Early evidence of explosives were just debris from a falling skyscraper.” [9]

However, Jennings will apparently not be available to correct the record. Jennings, 53 years old, evidently died in August 2008, reportedly only a few days before NIST issued its report on WTC 7. [10]

In any case, UPN 9’s interview of Michael Hess is now publicly available, thanks to Dylan Avery, who made a copy of it available, and Fred Burks, who posted it at The Transformation Team (click here).


[1] This interview was not included in Loose Change Final Cut at Jennings’ request, after he had, he said, received threats to his job. But after Jennings participated in a BBC documentary about WTC 7 (“The Conspiracy Files: 9/11--The Third Tower”), Dylan Avery, who had conducted the interview, put it on the Internet: “Barry Jennings Uncut,” Loose Change 911, July 9, 2008 (http://www.loosechange911.com/blog/?p=105). The term “uncut” in that title alludes to the fact that extracts from this interview had already been posted on the Internet. The interview is also included in a video, Fabled Enemies, produced by Jason Bermas, another member of the Loose Change team.

[2] For documentation of the information provided in this article, see Chapter 1 of David Ray Griffin, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited: 9/11, the Cover-Up, and the Exposé (Northampton: Olive Branch, 2008), 45-48.

[3] Michael Ventura, “9/11: American Ungoverned” (http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid%3A83213).

[4] NIST, Appendix L: Interim Report on WTC 7 (http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf), L-18. No source for this claim is cited.

[5] NIST NCSTAR 1-8, Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster: The Emergency Response Operations (http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf), Section 5.9.

[6] Quoted in Griffin, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, 46.

[7] NIST NCSTAR 1-8: Section 5.9

[8] Quoted in Griffin, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, 46.

[9] Ibid., 276-77 n184.

[10] Aaron Dykes, “Key Witness to WTC 7 Explosions Dead at 53,” Infowars.com, September 16, 2008 (http://www.infowars.com/?p=4602).

New eyewitness testimony at the Pentagon

September 11, 2008

David Ray Griffin joined Bonnie Faulkner and Dennis Bernstein on KPFA's program Flashpoints to discuss Dr. Griffin's newest book, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited: 9/11, the Cover-Up, and the Exposé.


On the Pentagon . . .

See Also: http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/index.html

Pentagon Attack Errors
Numerous points based on the physical evidence of the crash site seem to make an overwhelming cumulative case against a 757 having crashed there, provided one ignores the eyewitness evidence. However, most of these points involve some error in evaluating the evidence. Those errors include the following.

* 'A Boeing 757 could not have executed the attack maneuver'
* 'Eyewitnesses saw a small plane'
* 'The Pentagon attack left no aircraft debris'
* 'Aircraft crashes always leave large debris'
* 'The Pentagon attack left only a small impact hole'
* 'The wings of a 757 should have been visible outside the Pentagon'
* 'Engine parts from the Pentagon crash don't match a 757'
* 'Standing columns in the Pentagon impact hole preclude the crash of a 757'
* 'The C-ring punch-out hole was made by a warhead'
* 'Flight-path obstacles can't be reconciled with the crash of a 757'
* 'Only A Small Plane or Missile Could Have Caused Pentagon Damage'
* 'The Pentagon Attack Plane was a Boeing 737 Instead of a Boeing 757'

Pentagon Attack Witnesses
Read them for yourself before someone else tells you what they say, or defines them as "suspicious"

Pentagon plane crash eyewitnesses
most eyewitnesses were not interviewed by the media
a limitation of using the internet as the sole research tool

Pentagon Eyewitness Testimony

Why the emphasis on cell phones...?

Why the emphasis on cell phones...? The Pentagon Honey pot? There is a lot of great information to talk about and cell phones aren't #1 on the list.

Why not focus on the best evidence that the 9/11 truth movement has in the limited time we have on the radio instead of focusing on speculation and weaker issues? Isn't there more to 9/11 truth than cell phone fakery and plane crash fakery?

NORAD lied

DRG knows this. He wrote an excellent essay about this...

DRG talks about the new pentagon witnesses. But he says he's found more evidence that no plane hit the Pentagon. Did he talk or examine witnesses outside of the Pentagon? Did he talk to the people who were there near the crash site at the time of the attack? Did he talk to the firefighters who were nearly killed by the plane as it hit the Pentagon? Did he talk to the witnesses on the traffic filled highway? I have a list of about 100 people who claim the plane hit the Pentagon, will his book discuss these reports? No, he's looking at the accounts of the damage inside of the building. No one can deny that there were plane parts inside of the Pentagon and that they correspond to a 757. I don't think anyone can say with certainty what the damage is going to look like when a plane hits a building a 500 mph. One thing we can know is that the light pole damage lines up with the structural damage inside of the Pentagon.
A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog

Good insight

The issues should be prioritized for maximum effectiveness. Cell phones are a very low priority.
Additionally, there is a lot of uncertainty re: the Pentagon. Its priority should be accordingly lessened.

The one time I saw DRG speak live

He spent the first 30-40 minutes discussing cell phone fakery.

I wasn't impressed.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month


Great man.

UPN interview with Hess?

a) The link that DRG gave is too a really long video (and the player doesn't allow you to fast-forward past what is loaded!).
Does anyone know @ what time the Hess interview is at? Is it @ the 57 min mark?

*Edit: the Hess interview is at the 57min mark.

b) Can someone who is good with video editing extract the interview and throw it on Youtube?
Here's the exact link to the file.

Here it is:

Here it is:

Please watch my movie: The Third Tower

Thanks for this

Another smoking gun. Hess corroborated Jennings. Too late for him to cry about it now.

“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson

It looks like an interesting

It looks like an interesting article and I look forward to reading it in more depth.

>>and Fred Burks, who posted it at The Transformation Team (click here).

For those who don't know who Fred Burks is, he has posted this 2005 news article about himself on his website:

Lost in Translation: How Bush Interpreter Got Through Security
He Is Fluent in Indonesian, But He Also Testifies For Accused Terrorist
February 22, 2005; Page A1
JAKARTA, Indonesia -- Frederick Burks believes in UFOs, communes with dolphins, runs a Web site that promotes conspiracy theories about U.S. complicity in the 9/11 attacks and thinks Washington may have had a hand in blowing up bars on the Indonesian resort island of Bali.
. . .
On the morning the two presidents met, Mr. Burks took an early morning jog on the beach and came across a dead dolphin, an encounter he later described in an e-mail he sent to friends and colleagues. He says he knelt down and "opened to the spirit of this dead dolphin" and "felt its presence with me...and the joyful presence of the entire school of living dolphins." Their "loving presence," he says, penetrated the traveling White House in Bali and made senior U.S. officials act in a strangely friendly way. The White House declined to comment on that.

Hey guys,

check out my new flyer. If I knew how to post an image on my blog here I would put it up.


Thanks for making me laugh,

I needed that.

Nice job on the poster.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

David Ray Grifins

article & points arenot super important (imo) The important part to me is Hess says there was explosions on WTC7 & the were trapped for 1.5 hours. This matches Jennings testimony.

I also learned that Hess was just a lawyer for OEM.

I noticed you used the

I noticed you used the Watchmen smiley symbol. Are you a fan, or you just like the look of it?

I'm a huge fan of the Watchmen

and when you think about it, the similarities to what is going on now in this country are striking. The whole thing is based on the head of a massive corporation planning and carrying out a false flag operation, in New York, to "unite" the world against a new common foe.

I use the image as my avatar on sites that allow them, and on my own. The Smiley Face symbol comes from a character in the Watchmen called The Comedian.

Oh I know

Sorry to be so off-topic everyone...

Willy, Ive been a fan of the book for years. Did you know that there is currently a film adaption in the works? From what Ive seen it looks very faithful to the source material.

Ive never really thought about the connections of the story to 9/11 truth, but you make a very good point.

that was awesome

Humor is always welcome. :-)