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Et Tu Lindorff?

Facts to the contrary, there just are no conspiracies

David Lindorff has finally stuck his foot in his mouth, over at Commondreams.org, a notorious anti-truth gatekeeping site. I suppose we should all just abandon even the hope for justice, truth and reconciliation and take orders from the establishment Democrats?

Lindorff mixes irrational hyperbole with some revisionist whitewashing, all in an effort to put those pesky "conspiracy theories" behind us -- in the service of "the left." This tactic was employed previously by Alexander Cockburn among others, and is quite simply shameful.

Even the title is gibberish: "The End Is at Hand (to Leftist Conspiracy Theories)." By "Leftist" he can name any theory he chooses, and dismiss it out of hand without supporting evidence or any investigation of the facts of the case. How original. The thesis seems to be that because Obama will win the election, there were no conspiracies to bother with these last eight years. What an odd anti-intellectual exercise in peddling bunkum.

"Hopefully one thing such an across-the-boards win will lead to would be a withering away of the self-destructive conspiracy-theory paranoia that has gripped much of the Left over the last eight years."

Why on earth does this follow?

Mr. Lindorff has quite a fundamental misunderstanding of 9/11, for starters, and of vote theft for seconds.

The treasons of the Bush gang are not a "Leftist" issue. The 9/11 Truth and Justice Movement has millions of persons from across the political spectrum, and globally.

As for people pursuing vote integrity in the face of massive vote theft over these last few election cycles, this is hardly a "Leftist" issue du jour either. What is Mr. Lindorff smoking these days?

Fraudulent voting machines are a "paranoid" "conspiracy theory?" Why is that, exactly?

Blackboxvoting established years ago the secretive proprietary and easily rigged nature of the private election machine industry. "Spaghetti code" has been outed, and bogus vote counts have been documented in machines from Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S and others. The system is fundamentally designed to be vulnerable, and Mr. Lindorff should really know better.

"Following this line of thinking (if it can be called that), there's no point in voting, because "they" are going to steal the election anyhow (and that, of course, is if the election is even held next week!)."

Lindorff is getting old, but this framing is approaching Rovian standards. Are "they" not attempting to steal the election Dave? Why would you frame your arguments so badly? Of course they will attempt to steal votes in every venue they can affect. This is a historical reality, not a "conspiracy theory," although I suppose you feel better labelling it as such. It seems to be all about how you feel in this diatribe, despite facts to the contrary.

Lindorff goes through so many complaints, without any compunction to back up any of his sneering dismissals, that I can't really treat his propaganda piece as a legitimate argument. But, Commondreams was more than happy to run it.

"There's no point in going to rallies or marches in Washington DC, because "they" are going to attack Iran and start World War III anyhow."

Well, Dave, the "focus groups" of 2003 did wonders to stop that war crime in Iraq. Is this the fault of the people who stood up? Or is there indeed a "they" quite impervious to public protest? Your illogic is as insulting and counterproductive as can be, and yet you seem to think that this is the way to lead "the left" to your charge (for Obamarama?).

"Public protest is also dangerous, because "they" are going to declare martial law, and then all of us who go out and publicly oppose the government will end up locked away in detention camps in the Mojavi desert."

You're mocking the real risks involved in challenging a criminal regime that controls the most advanced military in world history? Are you saying they are incapable of "detaining" political opponents? Are you disputing that detention "camps" have been funded by the US Congress? Just what are you saying?

Oh yeah, "Public protest is dangerous..." That's true. Why the idiotic sarcasm about it?

As for the 9/11 "black boxes" which disappeared from history, there is no justifiable reason for hiding them, lying to congress and to the world, and this should be treated as another CRIME, something that doesn't seem to register in Lindorff-land.

Obstruction of justice is easily established time and time again in regards to the 9/11 attacks. That and TREASON.

Time to put up or shut the fuck up David Lindorff: Name the "foreign governments" and explain why hiding their identities from America is not high treason. "Aid and comfort," Lindorff, aid and comfort. I do not expect an answer from you. I do not expect you are actually concerned with the truth. You've made your bed, and that's that.

"...The contents of the redacted pages discuss sources of foreign support for some of the September 11th hijackers while they were in the United States.
(3) The Administration's decision to classify this
information prevents the American people from having access to information about the involvement of certain foreign governments in the terrorist attacks of September 2001." -US Senate, October 28, 2003

Further shoving his own foot in it deeper, Lindorff attempts to dismiss the much heralded "attack on Iran."

"I would add that this is a far cry from imagining that the administration was planning to fake an Iranian attack on American forces."

Except in Dick Cheney's office they floated such ideas openly (more treason, which "the left" never seems to have the guts to come out and type):

"(SEYMOUR) HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.

Might cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. "

Correction for Mr. Hersh: You can't have Americans caught killing Americans, which this wacko idea could easily lead to. You can certainly have foreigners killing Americans, however, because that is more acceptable as a "cassus belli."

A similar human-sacrifice scenario was offered to start the Iraq war (which actually has killed over 4,000 US troops and maimed tens of thousands of others, Lindorff).

"The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours," the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. "If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach." -To Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians And Shoot At Them

The New Yorker also exposes ongoing acts of war by the US regime against Iran:

“United States Special Operations Forces have been conducting cross-border operations from southern Iraq, with Presidential authorization, since last year. These have included seizing members of Al Quds, the commando arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and taking them to Iraq for interrogation...”--Preparing the Battlefield, The Bush Administration steps up its secret moves against Iran, by Seymour M. Hersh

The Hersh article comes out and explicitly mentions "false flag" attacks as a "basic" tool that is routinely used in US foreign policy:

“We’ve had wonderful results in the Horn of Africa with the use of surrogates and false flags—basic counterintelligence and counter-insurgency tactics."

And further, Hersh ties two radical Islamic terrorist groups to the US: Jundullah and M.E.K. The M.E.K. group is actually on the US State Department's own terrorist list!

But, as Gore Vidal has famously said, "It is an article of faith that there are no conspiracies in American life."

Lindorff attempts to clarify, but the effort is muddled and steeped in preconceptions:

"What I am saying is that the grander conspiracies being concocted in the more fevered brains of some people on the Left do not hold up under careful and critical inspection."

It's easy to dismiss your opponents when: 1) They can't respond. 2) You don't even feel compelled to state their case for them, accurately nor not. Sure, the "grander" people may be wrong, whoever they are. Those bastards. How is this helpful?

If Lindorff would be honest and come out and state the obvious: there is an extensive cover up of the 9/11 attacks, then he might have retained some credibiliity. He has done no such thing. He has played the game of demonizing "conspiracy theories" and those who accept them.

"The biggest failings they share are two: first of all, conspiracies as grand as multi-state election thefts via electronic fraud, and the carrying out of a two-front, high-casualty mass terrorist act on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, require the cooperation of such large numbers of people that leaks, turncoats, informants and simple screw-ups are inevitable;"

Really? So if an election machine company rigs the machines of one state, it's plausible. But,if they also rig their same machines in a second state, it's completely beyond comprehension?

And then, as arrogantly as the "left" debunker class has been (see a long and disreputable list, from Monbiot to Chomsky, to Cockburn to Taibbi) Lindorff gives us the tired 'too many people' excuse.

No, Lindorff. No. Your own conspiracy theory is not mine. Your own fantasy about how many people it took, is not my claim. Your own implausible scenario is not endorsed by me.

If "the left" would consider some honest debate on 9/11 (yeah, right), then other possibilities would quickly become apparent. No such openness is on display on the highly guarded "left" propaganda sites like Commondreams, where such alternatives were systematically censored for years (I have been since been banned from commenting there, of course). Counterpunch will never run the alternative version, the one that relies on the facts as can be determined to date.

As I already stated, Lindorff should name the "foreign governments", that's plural Dave, and explain the meaning of treason before I'll again bother with his worthless opinions on the matter of 9/11.

"Conspiracy thinking produces a deep cynicism towards positive action and towards the kind of long-term organizing upon which real social and political change depends."

Except the only people really organizing these last years in decent numbers have been the 9/11 Truthers. So how's that test against your theory?

"When people think that the fix is in, they are not inclined to put time and energy into the hard work of organizing unions, working to get local candidates elected to office, running for positions on party committees, etc."

Evidence exists to the contrary. Opposing the crimes of the government has been a rallying cry for millions. They are not in the majority, however, partly because of the "perception management" of people like Cockburn, Taibbi and now, yourself.

You and Cockburn have been lamenting the diminished influence of leftist propagandists, but that doesn't mean knowledge of US rule by "conspiracy" hasn't motivated a hell of a lot of people to speak out and demand answers. They aren't all "leftist," and so there's the rub. Your irrational stance on finding the truth has actually pushed a lot of people away from your sphere of influence.

We don't trust you. You, nor those who place a higher priority on attacking truth-seekers than they do on exposing the truth. You exert more effort on 9/11 Truthers than you do on the cover up. And that's a credibility-killer. It's as simple as that.

"Conspiracy thinking also leads people on the left to completely write off the Democratic Party as a vehicle for progressive change, as the notion that "they" run everything is broadened to include in the term "they" the elected Democrats in the White House and Congress."

Are you fucking kidding me Dave? Do I really need to list a giant mass of Democratic party collaborations with the imperial warmongers? Strike that. They ARE the imperial warmongers, with better PR.

What was the party of that woman who said, "Impeachment is off the table?"

Did you not realise that criminality was ON the table?

Do you have any grounds to dispute the bipartisan crime spree chronicled daily? Who's payroll are YOU now on?

Hey there's a good reason to dismiss me as a conspiracist, because I accused you of being on a payroll. Hey, maybe you're not smart enough to make the paid-journalist Operation Mockingbird class, and you're betraying us for free out of sheer ignorance. The point is how utterly wrong you are, and how little excuse you have for being this wrong.

"Democrats may be weenies, but such a conflation of Republicans and Democrats is also self-defeating nonsense..."

The prophet of nonsense thinks "weenies" is sufficient to describe a body count of 3 million Iraqis over two decades of high tech massacre, and a medieval sanctions regime. Yeah, what "weenies" those mass murderers are. Or is it that Democrats are incapable of killing anyone intentionally? They're the smiling happy neo-fascists, and so we don't accuse them. We only accuse the mean nasty Bushies. When Democrats seize power, the proper etiquette is to look the other way.

"The reality is that if Obama is elected president, and if Democrats end up gaining solid control of Congress, it will be critically important for progressives to organize powerfully to press this new government to do the right things..."

I'm already ahead of you. First let's define the "right things" David. Your list is a little light.

#

History.

We need to continually ask these people about their take on the Anthrax attacks and other "unsolved" crimes and historical examples of false flag attacks etc. Beat them down.

Here is the boy's email address: dlindorff@yahoo.com

Don't be afraid to use it.

I sent this...

To him.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Astonishing

I had previously held Lindorff in some regard. No longer.

Treason

from article: "As I already stated, Lindorff should name the "foreign governments", that's plural Dave, and explain the meaning of treason before I'll again bother with his worthless opinions on the matter of 9/11."
Hey Dave Lindorff! Let me give you a freakin clue....intelligence agencies of SAUDI ARABIA. PAKISTAN, and ISRAEL!

More on Lindorff's stench here:

Big picture

What with the Wall St. bailout, the curtain is parting and millions of Americans, previously oblivious, now have had their first glimpse of the Great and MIghty Oz. The elite want to dissuade the newly suspicious masses from pursuing their suspicions very far and thus confirming them.

Perhaps Operation Mockingbird has been expanded and Naomi Wolf and Dave Lindorff are now being either bribed or threatened to produce these recent pieces, which are so similar in tone and intent, to heap more derision and scorn on conspiracy theorists, thus scaring the uninitiated away from giving the conspiracy much credence. (Wolf's pc in the Guatamala Times is posted elsewhere on blogger.)

It was reported, re. one cover up, that over 10,000 people had been given at least a million dollars to ensure their cooperation. We cannot doubt that the elite will pull out all the stops to discredit us.

I find it hard believe that this article originated with Lindorff. It has "CIA talking points" written all over it.

But then, I'm a conspiracy theorist.

Alex Jones seems to have

Alex Jones seems to have awoken Wolf in this interview and on camera here she is calling for a new/real investigation (and seems to be genuine about it) which is as much as you can hope for from every citizen. Though every citizen should be demanding criminal and treason investigations as well.

There are GREAT comments over at CommonDreams

The readers there are less sheepish than I had presumed.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/10/31-0

The double standard is strange

Torture? Indefinite detention? Domestic spying? War profiteering? Were those good faith overreactions to 9/11?

Is only the patriotism of the public up for review (for example the "unpatriotic al Qaeda sympathizing conspiracy nuts")? The leaders who engage in the policies mentioned above and have not accounted for their pre-9/11 conduct are simply patriotic due to their positions of power? That describes authoritarianism...when unconditional support for leaders is considered patriotism. This is the sort of mentality one finds in fascist states. This is the sort of mentality that condones the trashing of the Constitution based primarily on the CLAIMS of a few corrupt politicians and intel officials that such overreaction was required to prevent follow up attacks.

One is left to wonder why journalists do not hold politicians and government officials to a HIGHER standard of conduct than the "conspiracy theorists." Even a similar standard would be a step in the right direction. Do these people not understand the contempt many government officials have for the public? Did they not watch Tenet (and Bush) state that torture is required but the US doesn't use torture? Do they remember that Tenet blamed the intel sharing failures on faulty cable trafficking/watchlisting procedures? Do the journalists understand the absurdity of such an excuse? Have they contrasted this excuse with Tenet's claim that the system was blinking red? Have they checked out FBI agents Miller and Rossini's account that they were ORDERED to withhold the alHazmi/alMihdhar intel?

"Did they not watch Tenet

"Did they not watch Tenet (and Bush) state that torture is required but the US doesn't use torture?"

Yes, they are well aware. That's why you have to wonder if . . .

"Lindorff . . . has "CIA talking points" written all over it."

They don't want to pay the legal price for what they did, so "Look over there!" Look at the nutty conspiracy theorists, look at how nuts they are . . .

I wondered about Lindorff when I saw an article, mentioning that he defends Leuren Moret (missile at the Pentagon advocate who now works with Alfred Webre on bogus "space" efforts which support DEW and other hoaxes) and Doug Rokke (also missile hit the Pentagon). Depleted uranium is a real problem and does serious damage, but these people distort it without the science to support it. Not to mention the hoax promotions.

So was Lindorff just mistaken? Again? Maybe. But who knows.

Radioactive Wounds of War Tests on returning troops suggest serious health consequences of depleted uranium use in Iraq
By Dave Lindorff
August 25, 2005
http://www.dubbs.info/controversy.htm
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/discuss/2298/P400

The person or group acting

The person or group acting under the name David Lindorff's has posted the same article on afterdowningstreet.org, opednews.com, and commondreams.org . Seems he's intent on getting his lack of substance article out as much as he can. The article has been nicely shredded at least here. His fear seems to be complacency for opposing the Bush regime through the Democratic party. What he's not realizing is that citizens shouldn't be forced between the two choices only. Will there be some who vote the lesser of two evils by voting against someone, yes, but there will also be those who will vote their heart by voting for someone. Personally, I wouldn't have done any antiwar demonstrations before realizing the corruption around 9/11. If anything, it has made people scrutinize politics and their government that much more, not less. His fear of its so corrupt, why vote is unwarranted. By his own admission there is a conspiracy of disenfranchising voters, this must be one of those white conspiracy lies in Democracy that he can tolerate and therefore publicly acknowledge. Never mind voter disenfranchisement is treasonous to the foundation of the nation and the Constitution.

looks like someone leaned on Lindorff

http://www.911blogger.com/node/18192

In this interview with Jon Gold, he doesn't qualify his statements. He says he is for a new investigation of the 911 attacks.

I have no doubt that he caught some heat from somewhere which directly prompted this commondreams.org article.

His declaration of Bush's incompetence and the Iraq war failure is up to interpretation. It's a matter of perspective. It seems the transnational oil companies have done pretty well since the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq. It seems the military industrial complex has fared pretty well also. Who's to say that Iraq has been a failure? Who's to say that Obama becoming president is even a failure for the powers that be. Look who is financing Obama's campaign.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/07/report_exxon_execs...

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1008/102908rb1.htm

Bush got them to here, and now Obama will move them further toward their objectives. He has already shown that he will play ball with the powers that be by his vote on FISA/retroactive telecom immunity and his declaration that he wants to pursue Osama Bin Laden and Al CIAda in Afghanistan. He will keep the war machine rolling and keep the middle east in turmoil which will translate into profits for the same military industrial complex and transnational oil companies. He will take care of the same big winners who benefited during the reign of the Bush Crime Family. What's not to like?

>>I have no doubt that he

>>I have no doubt that he caught some heat from somewhere which directly prompted this commondreams.org article.

The same thing happened when the Dems got into Congress in 2004 -- there was a wave of attack on the "9/11 Conspiracy Theorists." It's as though it's time to clear the slate of the rubbish.

The only question is whether it's a DNC talking point, or someone else's, or both.

brilliant

"You exert more effort on 9/11 Truthers than you do on the cover up. And that's a credibility-killer. It's as simple as that."

perfectly said.

In context, even better...

"We don't trust you. You, nor those who place a higher priority on attacking truth-seekers than they do on exposing the truth. You exert more effort on 9/11 Truthers than you do on the cover up. And that's a credibility-killer. It's as simple as that.

"Conspiracy thinking also leads people on the left to completely write off the Democratic Party as a vehicle for progressive change, as the notion that "they" run everything is broadened to include in the term "they" the elected Democrats in the White House and Congress."

Are you fucking kidding me Dave? Do I really need to list a giant mass of Democratic party collaborations with the imperial warmongers? Strike that. They ARE the imperial warmongers, with better PR. "

Very good post, john..., and comments from everyone as well.

Just my Read on Lindorff...a 60s fossile...

I had a chance to sit and chat with Lindorff at a "Truth Emergency Conference" in Santa Rosa , CA a while back...a conference desiged to attract "alternative media types" to discuss the growth of alternative media...and how important that this was for our democracy...and how the TRUTH may actually play an important role ??? YIKES!!!

The kicker...

...the event was put on by the AMAZING VISIONARIES in the 9/11TM...

It was simply head shaking...the 9/11TM was holding the hands of and "comforting" the alternative media types [the Lindorffs etc.] essentially saying..."Its OK to seek and tell the truth"...

Well, it was men and women versus boys and girls...with the 9/11TM being the courageous and multi-skilled adults afraid of nothing...and the children being the aspiring alternative media types who were mostly working...aka...HOPING...to make their way up the "corporate media ladders [like Richard Green of AAR]" with dreams to get hired by one of the major corporate media as a disinformationary [new word]..

[ONE COMPLETE EXCEPTION...an amazing woman who had been a TV producer at high levels in media corporatocracy and who has "seen the BIG PIC"...and who spoke up about it...and lost her career because of this courageous position in the name of doing the right thing...sorry...forgot her name but NOT her companionship in our revolution].

Anyway, two points:

1. One of the objectives of the entire conference which was attended by upwards of 800 activists and interesting INDIVIDUALS...was to boil down all the amazing minds, souls, hearts, and VERY individual "voices" into just a "FEW MEGA NARRATIVES" ...

...aka...boil it all down into a narrowed FEW of the wide array of subjects that would then be "selected" by the indy media collective for EVERYBODY to focus upon...just a few...

HMMMM...sounds a bit familiar aye?...in the corporate media, aye?...and in the various high levels of "progressive?" protest-activist" groups now established with HQs in WDC, aye?

DOT...DOT...DOT...DOT...DOT...

So, I WHORED OUT...as usual...and I actually DID go along with trying to narrow down the Mega Naratives into a few...and in fact, I was rather radical in my narrowness.

My contribution to the MINIMILIZATION of the Mega Narratives is that they should be selected so that there was only ONE Mega Narrative...

...and that was that there should be only ONE MEGA NARRATIVE...

...and that was that there there should be NO MEGA NARRATIVES...

Its sort of a play on the first amendment being first for a "first worthy" position...or,

"Lets chat about lotsa stuff-OK!"

Anyway, after talking at length with Lindorf about how the New Hampshire Primary was hacked in favor of Hillary...[so easily predictable by a 30 year native...like me...20 years of which I have been trying to get NH and IA removed from such presidential selection primacy]...which had long been set up well in advance FOR HILLARY...both mechanically and "voter-wise" due primarily to the sophisticated groups of "special interests" that had settled in NH over the last 30 years. Its the well established influence of...the eastern MA corporate media...the corporate educational infrastructures...and the corporate political GANG BANG in eastern MA...the gang that,over the years, have continuously brought us candidates like...KERRY...

Anyway, after seeing that I had broken Lindorff's "views of democracy" in my ten minute explanation of NH primary politics, his eyes glazed over and he began nodding his head so as to try and dismiss me...both as a former ATC with inside information about the events on 9/11...AND...my insights into NH primary politics...which have since been verified BTW. This was interesting because his experience on the ground in NH was minimal...and at that, fully "corporatocratic" [another new word].

So, here is my take regarding Lindorff...

His has size six FEET...and the shoes that he is trying to fit in are size TWELVE...

Nuff said...loosen your shorts...and just remember that we have far more credible folks amongst us...sayyyy...maybeeeee...liiike...Peter Dale Scott for example???]

Lindorff is a left gatekeeper...and he is doing EXACTLY what he needs to do to remain published...its pretty simple...

DOT...DOT...DOT...DOT...

You will get this "NH Primary stuff" should you check into WGBH-TV, WBUR radio and the entire PBS network in Boston...a well and "privately funded" media organization that provides so much public TV and radio programming for the rest of the country...

...DOT...DOT...DOT...

You all probably never thought that you'd be on THIS little journey I'm sure...

DOT...DOT...DOT...DOT...the toe bone IS connected to the anvil in the ear...DOT...DOT...DOT...

We are SO FAR OUT AHEAD OF THE LINDORFFS of the world...

Look, we HAVE some amazing authors...lets NOT get upset with those left media gatekeepers out there "protecting" something out there...DOT...DOT...DOT...its COMPLETELY predictable...

Lindorff is a lightweight...we are the heavywieghts...lets move on...

Love, Peace and Progress...

Robin Hordon

I believe Kristina Borjesson

is the woman whose name you couldn't recall. A very interesting and heroic lady, imo.

The conference was in Santa Cruz the last weekend in January of this year (2008).

The conference web site has been down for awhile, or I would link to it.

Meta narratives are a very interesting concept, important to understand and fun to play around with, even more fun to deconstruct and subvert. But are we required to create our own in order to succeed as a movement? While the leaders of the conference seemed to believe this to be necessary, I don't think so.

I think the conference had some fine goals, but its focus on creating one meta narrative that included everyone (here's that big tent again), including those who still accept the OCT (such as Mr. Lindorff, ultimately meant that this meta narrative would not be a useful tool for advancing 9/11 truth.

Dr. Zelikow and his cohorts have been successful in creating a meta narrative that tells us that our government (esp. G.W. Bush and his administration) is incompetent and that Osama bin Laden and 19 hijackers perpetrated the greatest single day crime in U.S. history, even though there is nothing factual to support said narrative. We see popular culture reinforcing this meta narrative every day, as the recent film from Oliver Stone so clearly demonstrates. As a counter to this, the truth movement in the ultimate counter culture right now and is opening the way for a significant paradigm shift.

Television has been the perfect training tool for creating a society dependent on narratives and relatively devoid of critical thinking, along with the intentional destruction of public education, of course.

The truth movement is fracturing this meta narrative and the paradigm that creates and maintains them, one person at a time, and civil information activism is the single best way to do that. Truth creates its own narrative and the "meta truth" is creating the "real" meta narrative.

Keep up the great work, Robin!

I look forward to working with you again soon. I miss the Pacific northwest.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

LeftWright...thank you for the corrections...

Thanks for all the corrections to the loactions and stuff [I think Santa Rosa is north of SF near where "Project Censored" takes place...went there too...]

I found Kristina very inspiring for me...never even met her....Project Mockingbird lives on!...as do we!

Love, Peace and Progress...

Robin Hordon

Project Censored is at Sonoma State

near Santa Rosa, about an hour north of the Golden Gate Bridge.

Hope to see you down this way again soon, brother Robin!

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Bush not incompetent: the left is envious

The continued Meme that Bush is 'incompetent' and so couldnt be behind 9-11 has two problems:
1. Theres no need for Bush to be involved i 9-11...Straw man!...Noty whwen yoiu have the very competent Neocons

2,. Those who say Bush is 'incompetent' are merely salving their envious natures as Bush has power and they do not. The US govt (not just Bush) has bee able tyo commit numerous crimes, knowing their enemies in the moribund left will help defend them by calling them 'incompetent'.

Simple indeed

"You exert more effort on 9/11 Truthers than you do on the cover up. And that's a credibility-killer. It's as simple as that."

That's an excellent point.

The Myth that the Republicans Party planned the 9/11 inside job.

Our picketing has been accused of being "political" for a long time. Lately the accusations point directly to the 9/11 truth attempt to sizzle the Republicans (McCain) right at election time.

Continueing the heat to prosecute 9/11 to Obama's watch could help dispel the myth that 9/11 is made up of a bunch of flaming liberals.

It serves us well that Richard Gage admits he is a Reagan Republican.

The enemy of my enemy is my freind.

WEBSITE: http://gators911truth.org
YOUTUBE: http://youtube.com/gators911truth
YOUTUBE: http://youtube.com/Hsaive

Another bulls-eye, John

This cowardly piece of rubbish from Lindorff seems part of a coordinated effort by the foundation-controlled "Left" opposition to "shame" true threats to the corporate system into silence in preparation for a theatrical "Democratic" electoral victory "of the People". Any student of corporate media propaganda and complicity should have long ago recognized that Obama's candidacy was massively favored, suggesting it was designed to co-opt and calm true progressives who might otherwise withhold their votes or vote for an "unsafe" candidate like Nader or McKinney. Watching how Kucinich (and later even Edwards, who told the CFR that the "War on Terror" was a fraud) was smeared and eliminated--despite broad "Democratic" support for his policies--confirmed this for me.

Whatever "instructions" Lindorff may have received, in the act of writing this piece he has sacrificed his moral credibility, and he evidently lacks the intellectual agility to herd these angry cats. He should just quit if he can.

“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson

"debunking the vote-theft fear-mongers"

I saw this when i exchange comments with those responding to my article.

Quite frankly, I've never read an article by this guy. Isn't he one of the "we're about to invade Iran" people who've gone on about that for two or three years? That yelping helped distract form Iraq and was pointless. Have we invaded Iran.

Now, as I read it, one of the people talking about black boxes wants to hold hands with the Democrats and pretend that 911 is all tied up and there's never been a stolen election. Why? Obama had to be pushed into a clearer stance on Iraq. He needs to reverse his stand on the bailout. He needs to mention and act on the 1.0 million dead, 1.0 million injured, and 5.0 million orphans in Iraq. Does Lindorf propose to ignore this, by implication? He must never b.s. the public again like he did when he talked about Russia invading the Republic of Georgia. He has to have a real health plan, not a stupid internet site which merely replicates what's already there. And so forth.

Thanks for sharing this. How utterly ridiculous. Don't these party joiners realize that the citizens of this country find both parties repellent. Haven't they read the approval ratings for Congress?

It's hard time in a dark hole of the Matrix Federal Prison for folks who engage in "faith based" politics, regardless of the faith.

These two paragraphs are

These two paragraphs are obvious sophistry:

"Chief among the leftist conspiracy theories are that the Bush/Cheney administration was behind the 9-11 attacks, that the current administration has plans to cancel or annul the November 4 election and institute martial law, that there are plans for a 'false flag' attack on American forces which will be used to justify an all-out war against Iran, that there is a false-flag terror attack planned inside the US set for before the election, designed to throw the vote towards John McCain, that the Wall Street meltdown and subsequent bail-out are a deliberate scheme to steal the nation’s assets and funnel them into Republican pockets, and that Republican operatives have the technological capability, and plan to steal the current election by manipulating the results on the electronic voting machines used by many election districts. In a variant of the Right’s anti-Semitic ravings, the Left attributes god-like powers to the Israel lobby and its formal lobbying organization, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

"Never mind that some of these conspiracies are mutually exclusive (if Bush and Cheney are going to declare martial law, they should have no need to steal the election), or that it’s getting pretty late in the game for others to actually happen."

What he's doing: List a set of claims, each described quickly in simplistic terms. Some relate to the past, others are future predictions. The claims are not held to the same extent by all of the people he is theoretically addressing, but then he pretends that all of these claims automatically go together, without actually citing anyone who holds any given claim, or testing the consistency and internal logic of any given person's views. The essay remains a blanket condemnation of a trope (the "conspiracy theorist" as defined by DL) rather than a treatment of anyone's actual ideas. The next step in this familiar dance, with which Lindorff doesn't even bother, would be to pick an easy target (for example, Alex Jones or David Icke) and let him stand in for all others whom Lindorff is artificially grouping into the same pot.

As for 9/11, large parts of it have been exposed! The main trick of the cover-up lies in media conformity as to what kinds of ideas are acceptable, and not in perfect secrecy (which is impossible). This is as much a sociological process as it is due to "conspiracy."

I expect much better from Lindorff, by the way.

Where we can stop already and just laugh is with the idea that anyone, especially Lindorff, would seriously suggest that the normal and utterly predictable operation of the capitalist financial system -- culminating in a foreseeable crisis, with the outcome of concentrating wealth further in ever-fewer hands -- is actually some kind of cosmic accident. It's not all a "conspiracy," of course, since it's a whole system, quite in the open, and almost all done within the (corrupted) law; but the implication that it's not intentional or that there are no planning authorities (such as the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and the lawmakers) who knew what they were doing when they set up a skewed gambling parlor modeled on all the familiar financial Ponzi schemes and shell games that led to past financial crises is ludicrous at best.

Addendum:

I can certainly agree with making the most of whatever opening an Obama election might provide, assuming any. So I have no problems with this:

"The reality is that if Obama is elected president, and if Democrats end up gaining solid control of Congress, it will be critically important for progressives to organize powerfully to press this new government to do the right things..."

No shit! Assuming we can agree on the "right things," and we don't have the likes of Lindorff saying we have to wait while Obama clears up whatever crises he'll be handed, blah blah. The only way something good might come of it would be through powerful organization from below. Rabble rousers are all that's ever changed things in this country: abolitionists, sufragettes, unionists, anarchists (the real ones, not the public nightmare version)...

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"Truth is not measured in mass appeal."
summeroftruth.org