The Debate Over 9/11 Truth - Jon Gold & ScrewLooseChange

I transcribed Pat Curley and Jon Gold's closing arguments, quoted Jon from the 911Blogger debate thread and added many hyperlinks, plus my own comments at the end:

The Debate Over 9/11 Truth - Jon Gold & ScrewLooseChange

This is a documentary commentary on 9/11 Truth and the 9/11 Debate: Jon Gold Vs. Pat Curley, which took place November 24, 2008 on the Franklin Pierce University closed circuit television show, “The Dynamic Duo”, was moderated the show's hosts Justin Martell and Eric Jackman, and is now on youtube.

The topics of the debate were:

1. Are there unanswered questions?

2. Was the 9/11 Commission a legitimate investigation? a

Closing arguments of Pat Curley and Jon Gold:

PAT CURLEY: “If there is another 9/11 investigation, and let’s say it comes down a little harder on the Bush Administration, saying that Bush was not paying sufficient enough attention to the Al Qaeda threat, and that several of the NORAD generals lied to the original Commission about when they knew about the hijacking of Flights 93 and 77, and saying that Tenet should’ve been fired for not notifying the FBI about the presence of Almhidhar and Alhazmi in the United States- if all that happens, but the new investigation also concludes nobody in the US government knew any sorts of details about the terrorist attack and let it happen intentionally, that there was no demolition at the World Trade Center, that what hit the Pentagon was Flight 77, and that Flight 93 was not shot down, would anybody in the 9/11 Truth Movement say, “Well, OK, we we’re wrong”? Would Richard Gage shut down Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth? Would Patty Casazza accept that her informant along the highway in Maryland was lying to her? Would David Ray Griffin stop talking about Voice Morph-Morphed phone calls? Would Nico Haupt give up on TV Fakery? Would Killtown stop claiming that Val McAck-McClatchy’s photo was phony? And the answer is “of course not”, so stop pretending that all you want is another investigation- you want another investigation that comes to the conclusions that you believe. Thank you for your time.”

JON GOLD: “Well, my response is that I really don’t endorse about 99% of everything [Pat Curley] just said and I never have. As I was saying, we are living in the “Post 9/11 World”. This is a world where our civil liberties disappear- where people are murdered in other countries because we decided to fight preemptive wars- this is a world where executive power is multiplied by a thousand with absolutely no accountability whatsoever. And if the event that created the “Post 9/11 World” wasn’t what we were led to believe, then we need to know about it. And I’d like to say that this debate is dedicated to Patty Casazza and Bob McIlvaine.”

In the post-debate comment thread at 911Blogger, Jon Gold says,

“Pat was told specifically not to play the "guilt by association" game. He asked Justin for time for a closing argument, and that's exactly what he used it for. I have always thought 77 hit the Pentagon. I have never endorsed voice morphing. I have never endorsed Nico Haupt. I have never endorsed Killtown (except for his 200 Smoking Gun list, but his antics since then made me steer clear). I have been one of the biggest advocates against promoting bad information, or what is considered bad information. Also, to think that we never correct ourselves, or admit mistakes after I JUST corrected something in my Facts article because he pointed it out, is absurd.”


“I think it's funny that Pat agrees 1) there are unanswered questions 2) the 9/11 Commission wasn't a real investigation.”

The debate included the following subjects, and more:

9/11 Family Steering Committee unanswered questions

NORAD’s failure to intercept any planes on 9/11

The role of Philip Zelikow

Philip Shenon, author of “The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation”

The August 6 PDB: Excerpt: “Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full field investigations throughout the US that it considers Bin ladin-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our Embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group of Bin Ladin supporters was in the US planning attacks with explosives.”

The testimony of FBI whistle blower Sibel Edmonds that the US government had been informed that Bin Laden was planning attacks on US cities with planes.

The July 10 emergency meeting with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, CIA Director George Tenet and Cofer Black, which was left out of the 9/11 Commission Report: CIA Director Gives Urgent Warning to White House of Imminent, Multiple, Simultaneous Al-Qaeda Attacks, Possibly Within US

My view:

Pat Curley’s closing argument was an attempt to frame the 9/11 Truth Movement and “unanswered questions” in a way that fits the “conclusions [he] believe[s]”. Unless he has inside information, Curley has no way of knowing what answers do or don’t exist among the photos, video, documents, witness testimony and other 9/11 evidence still being suppressed by the Bush Administration.

Further, Curley’s attempt to discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement by associating the calls of 9/11 victims family members and 51% of American adults for a new investigation by associating us with people like Nico Haupt and ideas like TV Fakery, instead of addressing our own words and actions, which we are responsible for- is disingenuous and shameful. As Jon Gold noted, researchers and activists in the 9/11 Truth Movement have made mistakes, including himself; and cleaned them up- because of the commitment to establishing truth and justice.

In my opinion, the above list of debate points made by Jon Gold justify the calls of 9/11 victims family members and 51% of Americans for a full investigation of 9/11- and there are many more issues with what we’ve been told about 9/11. The families deserve to know why and how their loved ones were murdered, and all Americans deserve to know the truth about how and why America was attacked on 9/11- whatever the truth may be.

Comment thread at oped

RICHARD: "May I assume that- when “Pat was told specifically not to play the "guilt by association" game." he agreed or he wouldn't have participated? If so, then that leaves him proven dishonest and a liar. Thus, he can be regarded as irrelevant to the discussion."

ALBURY SMITH: "Who's really "dishonest and a liar"? [May I assume that],when “Pat was told specifically not to play the "guilt by association" game." he agreed or he wouldn't have participated? If so, then that leaves him proven dishonest and a liar. Thus, he can be regarded as irrelevant to the discussion.

Jon Gold claimed that Pat was told that, and considering the fact that one of the movies Gold and some broad named Betsy have provided free at the Wayne Theater is Blueprint for Truth [2008 Edition], a colossal shitfest from Richard Gage, one of the biggest liars in the whole 9/11 "truth movement," I know which one I'd be more inclined to believe. He can disavow all of the nonsensical "theories" he wants, but you don't have to look very far to find that he's very closely associated with the nutty claims of Gage, Griffin, and the other 9/11 "researchers." If you sleep with dogs, you'll wake up with fleas, and trying to distinguish an honest "truther" from the rest of the bunch is like trying to pick up a turd from the clean end and shining it."

EDWARD RYNEARSON: "Collection of David Ray Griffin media- He is David Ray Griffin . . . he is my father . . . and my mother . . . my brother . . . my friend. He is you . . . and me. He is all of us."

RAMSHEYI: (wins "fake" award again) "Some Questions For An Expert


I have a question for you and for your bosses inside 9/11 Commission and higher up. Someone has suggested that WTC 7 was brought down by lightning, a mighty lightning that is. Doesn't this seem more plausible to you than the fairytale of 19 Arab hijackers armed with boxcutters ramming an invisible plane into that building? You are an intelligent fellow and can easily understand that it is much more easier to have a lighning conjured up out of the blue sky than have a cave-dweller way out in a fairyland remote control planes through the most sophisticated, most elaborate interception system in the world. Yes, that's it we will stick to lightning theory of Steven Leser and associates.

Another question now. As you certainly have good connections inside the Inside, do you believe that your new boss is going to go after Bin Laden and catch him and bring him to the US dead or alive for trial? And since we know that the boogeyman died long ago, would they bring his bones in a bag and put them on trial? Your bosses at the CIA and the FBI know certainly how to make skeletons talk, don't they?

As the new boss is going to hunt down the phony terrorists, is he going after those 'hijackers' who are still alive and put them on trial on charges of being still alive ?

Man, you sure are a master in obfuscation and confusion creation and muddying waters. You just tried to debunk Gene Capra's truth-telling article by your trash and nonsense. You have been trying to sell us Cheney's totally bankrupt Let It Happen fantasy. You still dare to come out with your copy of ' Complete 9/11 Commission Report Timeline' bullshit which is as credible as the lightning theory of one of your enablers here at OEN.

BWO, we truthseekers do not buy into this sort of crap. You have to understand this much. You may come back a hundred times with brand new bullshit, but it is always old stuff turned upside down. And I will tell you a hundred times to piss off and to go back to your handlers. From your nonsense it is crystal clear that you are part of a new campaign by your new boss to mislead and to confuse. It may work on Fox News audiences, but not here. Here you will be ridiculed till you finally decide to disappear for good.

We hold this truth to be self evident that you are an expert charlatan and truth-debunker.

Go to hell liar."

PatC pays a visit, denies being told not to take the low road

Jon Gold is there representing as well

Patrick Curley

I was NOT told not play the Guilt By Association Game

Jon Gold was not party to the conversations that Justin and I had in setting up the debate. I was NOT specifically told by Justin not to play the guilt by association game, and in fact that was not what my closing argument was about. If you have a debate about whether there are unanswered questions and whether the 9-11 Commission was a legitimate investigation, then the logical next step from the Truther side is to call for a new investigation. I was pointing out that the Troofers would not accept the results of any new investigation that didn't validate their kooky theories.

I note that Gold does not bitch about being associated with Box Boy Richard Gage, or Voice Morphing fruitcake David Ray Griffin; to me those guys are every bit as nutty as Nico Haupt.

As for why I didn't respond to Gold's comments at 9-11 Blogger, I have been blocked from commenting over there by Comrade Reprehensor. The Troofers don't take kindly to anybody questioning their wacky theories.

by Patrick Curley (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Monday, December 1, 2008 at 1:10:02 PM

He must love stereotyping

"Voice Morphing fruitcake David Ray Griffin"

What an utterly despicable comment.

despicable stereotyping, i agree

i learned a lot from New Pearl Harbor and Omissions and Distortions, but i have questions about DRG- the hyperlinks in my article, from Pat saying his name and "Voice Morph-Morphed phone calls" go to an article and a TruthMove thread on the Alernet debate.


honestly, i am not paying ramsheyi to say stuff like this:

Gangster Cowboys Herding The Sheeple

Albury Smith,

You are the stupidest troll we have had so far at this forum. You keep hoping that we may, through reading your trash, change our minds by and by and become fools and dummies like those at Fox News. If only you could imagine the scale of scorn and contempt you stir up inside us towards you and your ilk who have sold their honor for money and some table scraps thrown to you by your bosses from inside the Inside.

As for your buddy, BWO, he is not an agent, he is a dark knight all by himself. He is vicious and pernicious in his ways and means and intentions. He has been trying to turn our attention away from the truth and in the direction of some imaginary non-existing terrorists while he knows well that the real terrorists are indeed inside the White House. He managed to fool us for a while but not for long. His time is up.

But before you go away, let me read to you this exquisitely cute piece of fairlytale that I read in my child's history book the other day : "Mohammad Atta tossed his passeport out of the plane in some sort of over the shoulder arabesque, and the passport tumbled through the flames and the smoke and glided like a miniature magic carpet right in front of the feet of a NYC policemen". Wonderful, and so real. What a lesson of honesty for future generations of sheeple herded along by gangster cowboys.

Repeat after me 700billion times: 9/11 was an Inside Job

i swear to god, i am not paying ramsheyi to say stuff like this

Your Doubts Are Perfectly Justified

Alan Murphy Smith,

You guessed well, BWO, or rather Eric Larson if this is his real identity, is the worst and the most pernicious truth-debunker troll we have ever had or we will ever have on this site. You are right, it is him who wants to make us believe that a jumbo 747 can vanish inside a 16-foot-wide hole without leaving any plane parts. Yes it is him who wants to convince us that 9/11 was a Let-It-Happen coincidence masterminded by a cave-dweller and carried out by hijackers hardly capable of piloting small cessna planes. As for WTC 7 it is of course simple office fire that brought the building down to its footprints.

At a time when the truth is known to the entire world, that we all know with 100% certainty that 9/11 was an Inside job perpetrated by those who had an agenda for world domination, he is trying to sell us the fraudulent 9/11 Commission Report under another label, but basically the same bullshit.

His tactic is simple : mixing up some truth with plenty of lies in such a proportion that it becomes impossible for a naive to decide which is which and what is true and what is untrue.

We have to strive to chase this traitor out. He is a gatekeeper of the Establishment and we have the obligation to spit on him until he is shamed beyond endurance and decides that he is nothing but a clown.

Just watch him carefully and closely

#5 for most comments in the last month!

Trolls and fakes posting comments have pushed this diary into the Top 5 Most Comments for the past month, at

45 comments so far- i'm not even responding to them all

at this rate, it may overtake Tom Murphy's"Paranoid Conspiracy Theories (PCTs)" for the #3 spot- that currently has 59 comments

Thanks for the visibility, fakes and trolls!!!