Long, sophisticated hit piece at counterknowledge.com

Hello friends,

My main question for fellow 911bloggers is this: should we tear them up in the comments section (so far 99% infested by debunkobots), and answer the questions they want us to answer (some of which are extremely infantile, like "why haven't the perps killed Dylan and DRG?"), or do we even acknowledge their presence? Obviously I'm acknowledging it here since I'm writing this entry, but should we take them out on their own turf? Is it even worth it? Do you think we'd convince a fence-sitter who might happen to be reading the Counterknowledge website?


15 questions for 9/11 "truthers" now need to answer

One of the standard claims of 9/11 “truthers” is that they are merely sceptical individuals with a healthy and understandable desire not to swallow US government propaganda at face value. The mantra “just asking questions” allows them to pose as wary and intelligent souls too accustomed to the concept of duplicity in high places to accept the “official story” of Al Qaeda’s role in planning and perpetrating the largest mass casualty terrorist attack in modern history. It also allows them to adopt an indignant tone when dealing with their critics, and to conflate attempts by debunkers to undermine their claims with both unquestioning acceptance of an “official cover-up” (irrespective of whether the debunker happens to be a supporter of the current US administration or not) and a systematic effort to deprive them of freedom of speech. It goes without saying that in the process the “truthers” set up two straw-men for them to knock down, but then they’re not very good at dealing with tougher critics.

The “just asking questions” approach has three further advantages to those of a paranoid mindset and a less than scrupulous approach to evidence and facts (if George Orwell were alive today, he’d appreciate the irony of serial disinformation merchants like Dylan Avery and David Ray Griffin posing as members of a “truth movement”, given their fast and loose approach to the historical record and scientific fact). Firstly, conspiracy theorists know that mud sticks: if you can make an accusation against an individual or group through innuendo and sly hints the latter has the hard task of proving the calumnies against them to be false. Film buffs will no doubt recall George C. Scott’s performance as the malevolent prosecutor in Anatomy of a Murder, and his repeated question to the defendant Ben Gazzara: “Exactly when did you stop beating your wife?” This approach sums up “truther debating tactics nicely.

Secondly, the claim that one is “just asking questions” is liberating, as it frees the truther of the obligation of actually constructing a coherent alternative theory - based on the evidence at hand - which is more convincing than the “official theory”. Why worry if the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolitions or not? Why worry if the hijackers were patsies or ghosts? Why worry if the Pentagon was hit by a missile or a jumbo jet piloted by remote control? Why worry if the passengers of the four planes are alive or not? With one or two exceptions (notably Michael Ruppert), 9/11 conspiracy theorists and their supporters do not actually outline a scenario which explains how and why the US government (in cahoots with the Israelis, or the military-industrial complex, or whoever else) slaughtered nearly 3,000 people - most of whom were American citizens - in a co-ordinated series of attacks which were then blamed on Arab Islamist terrorists. Most truthers lack sufficient moral courage to produce a real theory about 9/11 being an ‘inside job’ which combines motive with method and which can be tested against the evidence. Deep down, they know that once they venture into specific claims their case will be torn to shreds, and they will be exposed as ignorant frauds.

Thirdly, it makes the task of a truther an easy one: all he or she (there seem to be few female truthers around, which hopefully means that they won’t reproduce) has to do is google to get the appropriate “story” from Prison Planet, 9/11 Blogger, What Really Happened or a similar website. Hey presto, they get what they want: “The FBI said there were no phone calls from AA77!”; “4,000 Jews didn’t turn up to work at the WTC on 9/11!”; “Silverstein ordered the demolition of WTC7!” And so on and so forth.

Any genuine sceptic dealing with truthers - whether online or in the flesh - then has to (1) work out what the hell his or her interlocutor is talking about, and (2) ask themselves how exactly they made this claim, and if it has any substance. Anyone lacking either patience or detailed knowledge of the events of 11th September 2001 may be tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Debunkers are left with the time-consuming task of researching the historical background, and trying to assemble the relevant technical and scientific information, before they can actually verify the facts for themselves. In short, the truther can throw out a red herring or an outright distortion in a matter of minutes, leaving it up to other net users to take the time and trouble to verify their origin and accuracy.

Fortunately, yeoman work has been done by scores of individuals to actually put the record straight. Pat and James from Screw Loose Change, Mark Roberts, 9/11 Myths, Debunking 9/11 and 9/11 Guide in particular provide a valuable resource. The James Randi forum is particularly useful in that it provides commentators with specialist knowledge - military veterans, pilots, flight engineers, physicists, architects, forensic experts etc - with a platform to expose the anti-scientific claptrap and historical illiteracy of the truthers. This is the main reason why the JREF and its commentators arouse such hatred from the 9/11 conspiracy ghouls.

It’s time to turn the tables on the truthers. Rather than accept a situation in which the nutjobs and kooks who subscribe to 9/11 conspiracies can make their accusations willy-nilly, it is high time that their critics decided that they can “just ask questions” too. This particular debunker has decided that maybe, just for once, the onus for actually demonstrating the validity of their theories on the basis of systematic and critical analysis of the evidence belongs to the truthers, not to those who wish to expose their fallacies. As someone whose academic bias is based on history, I would like to pose the following challenge to the conspiracy-mongers:

Let’s take your thesis (that 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by the Bush administration, and covered up by a coalition of US government agencies, allied powers, big business and the media) as read. The following questions point to logical and factual gaps within that thesis. It is now up to you to answer these questions and explain why your theories are still valid. For your answers to be credible, they need to be detailed and based on verifiable evidence. No suppositions, no speculation, no unsupported assertions, just the facts. Stop “asking questions”, and provide answers. These fifteen initial questions will do for starters.

(1) On 9th September 2001 Ahmed Shah Massoud, the most effective military commander of the anti-Taliban coalition (the Northern Alliance, or NA) was killed by two Arab suicide bombers posing as journalists. The assassination of Massoud had taken months to plan, and the latter had received the bogus request for an ‘interview’ in May 2001 (See Steve Coll, Ghost Wars, pp.574-576; Jason Burke, Al Qaeda, p.197; Daniel Byman, Deadly Connections, p.210. Two days before 9/11, Al Qaeda killed the Taliban’s main enemy, who had also played a pivotal role in keeping the NA factions together, and who would have been the obvious figure to liase with if the Americans had decided to effect regime change in Afghanistan. If Al Qaeda were not responsible for 9/11, then why was Ahmed Shah Massoud’s assassination so well co-ordinated with the attacks on New York and Washington?

(2) Conversely, prior to 9/11, the US government had minimal contacts with Massoud and other Northern Alliance figures, much to the latter’s frustration (See Coll, passim). If 9/11 was a “false flag” operation intended to justify a pre-determined plan to invade Afghanistan, then why didn’t the CIA and other US government agencies do more to facilitate ties with the NA?

(3) Just before 9/11, Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and other key Al Qaeda personnel left their quarters in Kandahar to hide in Tora Bora (Lawrence Wright, The Looming Tower, pp.356-358). Why did bin Laden and al-Zawahiri suddenly leave their known locations and go to ground, if they were not anticipating imminent military action by the USA?

(4) In the days following 9/11, the Bush administration asked the Joint Chiefs of Staff for a plan to invade Afghanistan. The JCS had to admit that they had no contingency plan for such an invasion, and in the weeks preceding Operation Enduring Freedom the CIA and the Department of Defense were obliged to improvise a plan of attack against the Taliban and its Al Qaeda allies (Benjamin Lambeth, Air Power Against Terror; Bob Woodward, Bush At War). If 9/11 had been an inside job, and if there was a long-standing intention by Bush and his advisors to invade Afghanistan and overthrow the Taliban, then why did they have to scrabble around for a workable plan? Why was one not prepared beforehand?

(5) We are being asked by the truthers to believe that the 19 hijackers were “patsies”, or non-existent. If that was the case, and if the intention of the real plotters in the US government was to justify military interventions to overthrow hostile regimes in the Middle East, why were 15 out of the 19 ‘bogus’ Al Qaeda terrorists given Saudi nationality? The other four hijackers consisted of an Egyptian, a Lebanese and two citizens of the UAE. We are being asked to believe that the conspirators behind 9/11 decided that they would make the hijackers citizens of allies of the USA, not enemies. Why were they not given Iraqi, Iranian or Syrian identity? Why were they not given forged links with terrorist groups (such as the Abu Nidal Organisation, the PLFP-GC or Hizbollah) with closer links to Tehran, Damascus and above all Baghdad? If we are supposed to believe that the Israelis had a hand in 9/11, then why were none of the patsies Palestinians linked to Fatah or Hamas? What kind of conspirator sets up a plot to frame an innocent party without forging the evidence to implicate the latter?

(6) Following on from this point, if the identities and the nationalities of the hijackers were faked, then why did the Saudi, Egyptian, Lebanese and UAE governments accept that citizens from their own countries were involved? What incentive did Saudi Arabia have for accepting that 15 of its own people had committed mass murder on US soil? Why would the Saudis co-operate in a plot which would blacken their country’s name, benefit Israeli interests in the Middle East, provide the pretext for the overthrow of one fundamentalist Sunni regime in Afghanistan, and contribute to the destruction of a Sunni Arab dictatorship in Iraq long seen by the Saudi royal family as a bulwark against Iran?

(7) Afghanistan is a landlocked country (truthers may need to be reminded of this fact), and any invasion is logistically impossible without the support of its neighbours. Prior to 9/11, Pakistan was a staunch ally of Taliban-ruled Afghanistan (see Ahmed Rashid, Taliban, passim). The former Soviet Central Asian states of Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan backed the NA, but were also wary of antagonising their former imperial master, Russia. Pre-September 2001 these states would not have contemplated admitting any US or Western military presence on their soil. Although Russian President Vladimir Putin backed the USA’s invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001, it took the Americans considerable effort to persuade him to permit the US and NATO forces to use bases on Uzbek and Tajik territory as part of Operation Enduring Freedom. It also took time and considerable pressure to force General Pervez Musharraf to abandon the Taliban - despite resistance from the military and ISI. Given the geo-political realities of Central Asia in mid-2001, there were no guarantees of any host nation support for any attack on Afghanistan. Assuming againt that 9/11 was an inside job, how could the US government realistically presume that the Russians and Pakistanis would actually permit the USA to effect regime change against the Taliban?

(8) Assuming that claims of Mossad complicity in 9/11 (”dancing Israelis”, etc.) are correct, can the truthers suggest a feasible motive for the Israeli government conniving in an act of mass murder on US soil? Since 1967, the mainstay of Israel’s security and survival has been its alignment with the USA, and the military assistance it has received as a result. This relationship is based on a bipartisan political consensus (both the Republican and Democratic parties are predominantly pro-Israeli) and considerable public support in the USA. Why engage in a “false flag” attack against the civilian population of an ally, when you have so little to gain and so much to lose if your responsibility is ever disclosed?

(9) Following on from this, assuming that the “five dancing Israelis” story isn’t a complete fabrication, what kind of secret service recruits undercover agents who compromise themselves by acting so ostentatiously in public? And if the five arrested Israelis were part of a conspiracy organised with the US government, then why did the FBI hold them in custody for over two months, instead of releasing them on the quiet a matter of hours and days after their apprehension?

(10) If the WTC towers in New York City were destroyed by controlled demolitions rigged by US government agencies, then why were the fake terrorist attacks used to cover up these controlled demolitions so insanely convoluted? Why concoct a scenario involving the hijacking of planes which are then crashed into tower blocks (involving complicated planning involving remote controlled flights timed with explosives detonated in the towers, which allow plenty of opportunities for gliches and technical errors)? Why not use a more simple means, such as a truck bomb?

(11) Assuming that Niaz Naik’s account of his alleged meeting with retired US officials in July 2001 is true, then where were the 17,000 Russian troops who were supposedly ready to invade Afghanistan when it came to the commencement of military operations in October 2001? And if the main motive behind the invasion was to build a natural gas pipe-line which would be under US control, then why was no attempt ever made to build one once the Taliban were overthrown?

(12) We are being asked by the conspiracy theorists to assume that NORAD was stood down on the morning of 11th September 2001 so as to enable the success of the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon. NORAD is a combined command, not a purely American one - it has a binational staff drawn from the US military and the Canadian Forces (CF). We are either supposed to believe that the CF personnel assigned to NORAD were too stupid to notice anything amiss in their headquarters - and query it - or that the Canadian government and the CF were complicit in 9/11. Which of these scenarios is true?

(13) If Al Qaeda were set-up for the 11th September attacks, then why have its leaders and spokesmen repeatedly affirmed their responsibility for - and pride in - these attacks (see here, here, here and here for examples)? Why are we supposed to believe that repeated video pronouncements by bin Laden and Zawahiri are fake, while just one written statement allegedly from bin Laden denying responsibility - which was handed by courier to al-Jazeera without any confirmation of its origins - was genuine?

(14) If the hijacking and crashing of four passenger planes was engineered by the US government, then why did UA93 crash into an empty field in Pennsylvania? Why not crash it into a target which would add to the death toll on 9/11, and further inflame US public attitudes and popular demands for revenge against the supposed perpetrators?

(15) Finally, if the US government is institutionally ruthless enough to organise the massacre of thousands of its own citizens in a series of “false flag” attacks, then why is it too squeamish to arrange for the deaths of the supposed “truth-seekers” (David Griffin, Kevin Barrett, Steven Jones, Richard Gage, the Loose Change team, Alex Jones, etc.) who have exposed their complicity in one of the most heinous crimes a government can commit against its own people? Why are these people still alive and well, and in a position to publicise their “theories” on radio, television, in print and online?

More questions than answers.

I'm not sure this is a debate you want to engage in. If people don't have questions after viewing the collapse of WTC7, the testimonies of so many people about bombs going off, the molten metal or the hundreds of other inconsistencies and coincidences around 9/11; then there is no ground on which we and they can meet.
I am first to admit that I have a lot of unanswered questions ( and I have no idea why certain Truthers haven't been killed, God forbid,) but that doesn't give credibility to the official story. As a matter of fact, all these questions are the reason more investigation is needed.
Polite and constructive debate and more investigation are what is needed, not angry or sarcastic exchanges.
There is no reasonable response to someone who starts by calling Truthers "nutjobs and kooks."

( and I have no idea why certain Truthers haven't been killed)

Because this isn't the 20th century anymore; this is the age of instant information and instant communication; too many people would openly cry foul if prominent truthers were killed.

I do believe, that if magical crystal balls really existed, or a Cinderella magic mirror (which could 100% accurately tell the perps who would do the best job of exposing them), that THEN they would have killed Dylan, DRG etc., waaaay before those said folks got into 9/11 truth.

The perps severely underestimated the power of the internet and they are cursing (and sweating) their corporate asses off.

Obama now working on "cyber-security"

I'm sure they're as busy as beavers trying to figure out how to filter the Internet. I fear it will come in the guise of filtering porn. I've read recently both that Australia is considering a nation-wide porn filtering technology, and that Obama is focusing on cyber-security.

Translation: how do we keep the banksters and shadow govt secure from the ever-more awake and enraged people?

Thank God for the Internet. I got broadband at home in 2002 and the world opened up. I first heard about 9/11 truth by stumbling onto Paul Craig Roberts website, while looking for something else. Although I also read a lot of books (and make good use of my library's inter-library loan service so I don't have to spend a fortune at Amazon) I find out about the books I want to read on the net.

The story of my awakening is here: http://www.sheilacasey.com/2008/12/compound-fractured-fairy-tale.html

Don't count on the internet

All the main nodes in the U.S. (most are in northern CA, btw) are now set-up to selectively censor anything and anyone at any time.

Once the decision is made, an effective blackout can take place in a matter of minutes.

A false flag cyber attack could be used as a pretext for shutting some people and/or sites out for "national security" reasons.

I'm also quite curious about the coming all digital television system.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Here is a related article

Is the Truth Movement Drying up?
There are some smart comments there.

The "Counterknowledge" people are like the Amazing Randi Devotees, Shermer's Skeptics, and the Kos Crowd. They are clueless that their thinking is programmed.

I'm not going to waste my time with the Somnambulistas.

Good call Joe.

Excellent moniker. "Somnambulistas"!!

Flat earthers.

Actually people like this remind me of flat earthers who, when confronted with indisputable scientific evidence that proves them wrong, instead of accepting the truth and adapting, stubbornly accuse their opponents of heresy. And ask open ended questions like "if the earth is round why don't the people on the sides and bottom fall off?"

I love how debunkers think...

We want THEM to answer our questions. No, sorry. We wanted the JICI, FEMA, NIST, PENTTBOM, and the 9/11 Commission to do that, and they failed miserably. Not Popular Mechanics, not Screwloosechange, not JREF, not Mark Roberts...

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

I agree, they are a joke.

Upon reflection, I'm probably giving counterknowledge.org more credit than it deserves by even blogging about this.* Check out counterknowledge's influence compared to infowars and prisonplanet. Go to alexa.com and compare the web traffic for counterknowledge, infowars and prisonplanet. Counterknowledge is about as insignificant as it gets.

By the way, I know how to get a screenshot and save it in windows paint. However, how do I then upload it and post it within a comment? I wanted to do that with this alexa graph.

*but i welcome more comments! ;-)


It's good to keep an eye on what the opposition is up to and what their points of argument are even if they aren't worth responding too.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win.” - Mahatma Gandhi

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead

I see a lot of straw men here, dressed up in nice clothes

Let’s take your thesis (that 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by the Bush administration, and covered up by a coalition of US government agencies, allied powers, big business and the media) as read.

It pretty much goes downhill from there.

That said, if I get bored enough, I may take the time to respond and post there.

Edit: hmmm, counter knowledge = against knowledge? How fitting.

Thanks for the post, it's always good to know what's getting thrown out there.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

I actually think they have a good point

I actually think they have a good point re. the "just asking questions" line. We are asking for trouble by taking that stance. I consider it cowardly, as I explain here:


"Many truth activists have reacted to this demonization by avoiding discussing theories, and insisting they are just asking questions. Fomer Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura gave a lengthy news conference in Arizona on 9/11/08 about the anomalies in the government’s story about 9/11, and he used this tactic. When asked his opinion about what was going on, he insisted he was just asking questions.

"This approach is dishonest and ultimately unproductive. It is disingenuous to pretend you don’t have any theories just to avoid the dreaded “CT” label. It is also nearly impossible not to have theories about something you have studied extensively; I don’t know a single 9/11 truth activist who doesn’t.

"It is also unproductive because we hold back from saying the things we know to be true. Why should we only ask questions when we know some of the answers? Questions require a lot of our audience. They require listeners to come up with the answers themselves, something not everyone has the time or inclination to do. We should state what we know with confidence."


That said, their questions are ridiculous. Almost all are questions of motivation, along the lines of: If Mata Hari was planning on seducing the ambassador, why did she wear her baggy black dress and not her sexy low cut red dress?

How the hell should we know? Maybe the Ambassador likes black. Maybe the red dress is in the wash. We can't possibly know why people do things or assume that they always make the most logical choices.


To question our Government when they do questionable things? I think not. Would you rather we concoct wrong theory after wrong theory, and be discredited over and over again, or would you like to actually get somewhere by calling for accountability? Asking questions, and DEMANDING answers LEADS to accountability. Not theorizing. Personally, I think you owe an apology to everyone that is "just asking questions." I've given up my whole life for this. I am ANYTHING but a coward.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Jon, wake up and smell the fascism

What makes you think your DEMANDS will ever be met? Have they so far? I don't expect to see accountability from any authority until the gates of hell are locked behind those bastards.

If anyone is going to state what happened, it's us. Wait for someone else to do it and we'll be waiting a long time. You've got a lot more faith in the PTB than I do, and less faith in yourself.

What makes you think our theories will be wrong? Sounds like your concern about being discredited will hold you back from ever speaking the truth with confidence. Take another look at the abundance of evidence proving our case. That evidence cannot be discredited. It's strong and solid and we have no reason to shy away from speaking it loud and clear.

Look at how effective DRG has been. He goes way beyond asking questions. He connects the dots, forms theories about might have happened, and helps us all understand the things he has put so many hours into researching. Alex Jones has defiinite opinions about what's going on and has woken up many, many people. Are you going to tell these men to quit what they're doing and limit themselves to just asking questions and pretending they have no answers?

Daylight's a burning and the police state gets stronger every day.

I can't...

State what happened because I don't know, and I have a sneaking suspicion you don't either.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Here's my solution.

On the one hand, engaging with the dingoes wastes valuable time and energy.

On the other hand, not engaging with the dingoes leaves their comments out there unchallenged.

I figure, why not educate new readers, instead?

Here's a typical example of what I post:


Just a "head's up" for those of you reading these comments who may be new to the ever-growing revelations and evidence around 9/11.

Sheila Casey's article in the Rock Creek Free Press (June 28, 2009)
accurately stated:

"...most savvy 9/11 activists [are aware] that the truth movement has been infiltrated by...[individuals - both paid and unpaid - who have been] tasked with crippling activists in any way possible, and that many of the most strident arguments come, not from sincere researchers, but from disinformation agents intent on spreading confusion and discord. These [individuals]...can be expected to mount vigorous arguments against that truth, the better to keep the movement divided and to prevent a clear, cogent message ... from reaching the masses."

- - - > Never doubt that they are among us, here in these comments. Thoughtful readers quickly learn to identify posts/comments of this type. They're shallow, argumentative, inauthentic, and formulaic. All are generated from the same "talking points".) < - - -


Another example:

A post with that would simply state the great info. from P. Truzi highlighted in RG's post on 2/12.



Characteristics of a pseudoskeptic:

1. The tendency to deny, rather than doubt.
2. Double standards in the application of criticism.
3. The making of judgments without full inquiry.
4. Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate.
5. Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments.
6. Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.
(Points courtesy of Proff Truzi)