Torture, Iraq, and "al Qaeda"

It's a start, but Maddow's reporting rests on the establishment version of "al Qaeda", which is surely false.

A far better view on "al Qaeda" comes from Nafeez Ahmed;

"Ties With Terror: The Continuity of Western-Al-Qaeda Relations in the Post-Cold War Period"

It's a start.

Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman and Chris Matthews have all been consistent and relentless in exposing the lies of the Bush administration (to a degree.) That is why they are enemies of the people who need to protect the official lies, especially Cheney, and especially since he has been abandoned by the Bush crime family.
While it's true that they are only reaching 1st base in the ball game of truth seeking, at least it's a start. To smash a grand slam "Truth" home run with all the available evidence, would be like a minister shouting "There is no god and I have definitive proof," in a church. Even after 8 years the congregation are not ready to hear that message from a credible and respectable source. Just as there are religious leaders who have doubts but preach the message to keep peace and "for the better of the congregation," these media messengers (Maddow etc.) are preaching a message for similar reasons even as they undermine the credibility and expose the lies about the Bush years.
They should be respected for that and hopefully there will come a day when they are able to hit a walk off homer and win the game. Let's face it, most intelligent open minded people are already aware of the truth, so it won't be a big surprise when they do finally expose it.
(Apologies for the mixed metaphors:-)

Fake Opposition

Their (Maddow, Olbermann, Stewart etc.) problem is that they have knowingly based their supposed opposition on gargantuan lies. Their willingness to risk their reputation for temporary monetary gain leaves them no choice but to keep the lie going and build on it.

Speaking of Iraq


(Pls read the Comments at Huffington Post)


On the morning of Thursday, April 10, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon prepared a top-secret briefing for George W. Bush. This document, known as the Worldwide Intelligence Update, was a daily digest of critical military intelligence so classified that it circulated among only a handful of Pentagon leaders and the president; Rumsfeld himself often delivered it, by hand, to the White House. The briefing's cover sheet generally featured triumphant, color images from the previous days' war efforts: On this particular morning, it showed the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down in Firdos Square, a grateful Iraqi child kissing an American soldier, and jubilant crowds thronging the streets of newly liberated Baghdad. And above these images, and just below the headline secretary of defense, was a quote that may have raised some eyebrows. It came from the Bible, from the book of Psalms: "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him...To deliver their soul from death."

Read the whole story: GQ


Here is one comment for user thevalleydownsdotcom on HuffingtonPost

So while conservatives were assuring us (US citizens) and the rest of the work that this was not a war on Islam, it really was. Jesus! Thousands dead for George Bush's vision of a Holy War. This really does confirm how insane the last 8 years were

Can others just leave us out of there crazy religious wars? This is so disturbing. How long will the Bush legacy haunt all of us?

The missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Hallelujah!

The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Hi Rep

I tried to post this video of a playboy reporter that thought he could last 15 seconds of water boarding.
I think everyone should see this, just to give a person a more understandable knowledge of it.
This is not like holding your breath under water.
Please check this out everyone. Here's the link.

Send this clip to Maddow and Olbermann

This clip should be sent to Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann and any other media people who might show it.

911Blogger should have it as a headlined post.

The entire population should see this and realize being waterboarded is not like trying to hold your breath under water. This certainly answered some questions I had about it and why it would be so intense and considered torture.

Thanks for this post.

Tony're welcome.

The entire population should see this

Absolutely. Especially now with Cheney blathering that torturing KSM helped save thousands of lives. People need see how waterboarding will make you admit to anything to make it stop. KSM received 183 pours in a 30-day period. Imagine what valuable information he gave after number 20, or 50, or 100, or 150…

Olbermann did cover waterboarding two years ago when Mukasey was being considered for AG. Alison Stewart was subbing that night and interviewed Malcolm Nance, former Navy interrogation instructor, who had testified before Congress that waterboarding was nothing less than real drowning:

Another good video is of Christopher Hitchens being waterboarded for his article in Vanity Fair (Aug. 2008), “Believe Me, It’s Torture”

MSNBC just announced that Olbermann will again cover torture as a political tool on tonight's report.

What goes around comes around, Mr. Cheney.

CARVILLE: "We know Al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11"

Freudian slip? On ABC's "This Week" yesterday, James Carville said this, and was immediately corrected by Cheney:

"CARVILLE: ...just like we need to find out if torture was used to extract confessions to talk about links between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein which we know that al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11.

"CHENEY: Al Qaeda had to do with 9/11 ..."

Notice in the next line, Katrina Vanden Heuvel refers to Cheney as "President Cheney" and is corrected by Stephanopoulos.

How unreal. Transcript here (scroll to bottom).

How real

Extremely pleased to hear this. Both real and unreal at the same time.

Lets not be fooled again. Demande justice for the tortured !

Herblay FRANCE

bonjour ,

it was on the French radio this morning : Another terrorist attack on America. Can you imagine the French reaction after they have been learning these last weeks of George Bush's governments crimes against Humanity. Torture and waterboarding. You have guessed it : George Bush was right in using all techniques to avoid another Islamic terrorist act. It has come out just at the right time. As the following article says the attack was not really going to happen but the timing is right to put the four on the front pages.
The video above and others with Jesse Ventura are making head way.
What limits will Barack Obama have to go to get George Bush, Dick Cheney and the others off the rope. Lets not be fooled again. Demand justice for the tortured !




The pitfall is that sometimes debates wander off into the "does-torture-yield-reliable-intel" region.

This is the same with camera surveillance: does camera surveillance solve crimes?

Both are pragmatic considerations, but this is a deception: the consideration is MORAL.

By that I mean: is it moral for the state to spy on its citizens? Is it moral to torture prisoners?

I really don't care if camera surveillance works or if torture works.

Rachel Maddow dropped the ball bigtime

She jumps from Bush's speech in Cincinnatti in October 2002 to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in March 2003, skipping over the Colin Powell speech to the U.N. in February 2003, and skipping over Al-Libi's tortured statements that Bush used in the Cincinnatti speech and Powell used at the U.N.

Yes, Maddow's use of the establishment line on 9/11 is shameful, but what's worse is she uses it while missing the most explosive story that supports her entire argument about torture for political gain.

Al-Libi and his significance is discussed here: