Cal State Long Beach Zine - Debunking 9/11 Truth

Cal State Long Beach's online zine,, recently featured an opinion piece that bashes 9/11 truth:

Feel free to join in the discussion to enlighten this fellow and his readers!


Maybe we're much bigger than we think we are.

It depends on the audience

We are getting more favorable comments in many recent hit pieces, but not all. Presumably it depends on the audience. The overall trend is very positive I think, based on what I have been seeing lately.

Commenter "Channing" makes a good observation.

This is important.
"Channing" makes a comment which we all should be alert to.
"...I read every comment, I couldn't help but wonder whether "Frank" is an agent provocateur working along side Gerry to test the idea on blogs? ie, it's fairly effective at peace rallies to plant them and give an excuse for police action and media propagandists to bash a movement. According to an Iranian ambassador earlier today, the photos of the girl in the Iranian "demonstrations" being used to attack Iran's politics is being investigated because it appears she was shot by protesters, and not the government who had no police in the area. Here, "Frank" is not adding knowledge, insight or inspiration and repeatedly tries to get everyone to email Gerry. If he can't stand OCTer's then why would he encourage that? Not only that, but his articulation is IDENTICAL to the hacks I've faced off against on numerous comment boards across the news/blog spectrum... it smells to me like agent provocateur to high heaven...."

Frank really got into some hard bashing and name-calling against the writer of the article. His posts had a scent of hate and tried to provoke a mob-type reaction.

Hate and "anger at lies" are two different things entirely.

Good chance Frank is an agent provocateur

Agent provocateur Frank, or just an ass? I suspect the former.

Tin Foil Hat Marketplace ...a marketplace for the uninformed

I think the roles are now reversed. With civility, 9/11 Truth Movement Advocates should insist that followers of the government's silly official story go buy a Tin Foil Hat.
We truthers are now on the offensive, not defenders of ideas. The Tin Foil Hat wearers are the defenders of silly ideas and incorrect information. We can be aggressive in a civil, almost joking way by pointing out how ridiculous their stance is.

Tin Foil Hat candidates rally behind the weird concepts of only 3 engineers worldwide. These 3 deny certain Laws of Physics in their public statements about the collapse of the World Trade Center Buildings and even admit to an inept study of forensic evidence. There are no published, peer-reviewed scientific papers which support their impossible claims. 700 architects and engineers adamantly oppose the concepts promulgated by these 3.

I stand with the 700 architects and engineers. I stand with the scientific published papers and careful study of forensic evidence.
"Buyers of Aluminum Foil" stand with 3 engineers (whose pay depends upon the government). The Tin Foil Hatters stand with NO peer-reviewed published journal. They stand with "careful study of the evidence found in the rubble and dust is unnecessary".
I stand with Families of the victims of 9/11 who have been trying to have their voices heard in calling for a new investigation. I stand with the First Responders of 9/11.
TinFoilers do not support the Families. TinFoilers do not support the thousands of First Responders who are now sick and dying.

TinFoilers can not find one witness from the events at the World Trade Center who will testify that there were NO explosions.
I stand with the hundreds of documented witnesses who testify to explosions.

Followers of the silly, official, government, 9/11 Conspiracy Theory often can not even give the correct answer to one of the most important questions concerning 9/11.
-- How many tall World Trade Center buildings collapsed on 9/11/01? (By tall, they would need to be at least the tallest in over 30 states, and collapse at near the same acceleration as a brick falling from the same height through areas of most resistance or obstacles.)

The answer to the above question is NOT 2 Buildings.

*Footnote- reference of the 3 engineers are footnoted in Griffin's work.

10 minute Building 7

Turning the Tables

Brilliant Tom T.--- this is the approach I've started using too. In my most recent post on my newspapers News Message Board, I asked "Will you believe the heroes of 9/11, the NYFD firefighters and first responders who reported explosions in the towers, or will you believe the fairy tale? I then made the 700 architects and engineers vs. 3 argument, and presented an abundance of reports backing up molten steel.

If you or anyone else here wants to take a peek at this thread, please do! Keep in mind this is tobacco road NC and I get a lot of snarkers who just can't psychologically deal with this type information. Still it has gotten over 300+ views and many onlookers are being exposed. (I already did a piece on the nano-thermite paper and one on Building 7). I am Twitching Lima.,70252

McGee, that was pretty cool...

Ha!...I can sure tell some of the comments come from the south. I heared thot kynd of tak en East Texas two.

I threw in a post too...

Slam Duncan! Lol.

Absolutely, the OCTers should be taunted

Tom, I have recently had a sense of what you are describing here beginning to be possible due to the numbers of people who are now aware that the present official story has no real basis.

It is time to intelligently and civily ridicule OCTers for their allegiance to an impossible scenario, and unwitting or witting defense of those guilty of an atrocity.

Please try to keep it lighthearted!

We don't want to drive them even deeper into their bunkers of denial as then it will take that much longer to coax them out into the light of truth.

Always keep in mind that we are trying to negate and nullify the divide and rule paradigm, so we need to bring as many brothers and sisters along with us as possible. Eventually, only the few truly unreachable sociopaths will be left exposed and powerless.

Hearts and minds, brothers and sisters, we are struggling for the very soul of humanity.

So chide them in a friendly way if you must, no matter how nasty they are.

It's more challenging to counter them with humor and grace, anyway.

If you can't be friendly, than at least be civil and drop a ton of cold hard facts on their head before walking away.

Let's be the change we want to see in the world.

(End of sermon)


The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Friendly and civil is the correct way

LeftWright, I agree with your points.

One should never stoop to cruel ridicule and I did not intend to promote that in any way.

However, there is a place for pointing to the obvious and a little chiding to make it clear.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

And I mine


More Truth spread...

I added some truth to consider as well...

Peace all

"To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful." Edward R. Murrow

Added mine

But Im just a jerk about these things; said I thought he'd make an excellent tabloid writer :D

“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dont preach it, just mention it :)


I didn't use one CD argument. :-P (I can and I will, but I don't have to)

The track record of the Bush administration is in a league of its own.


I think I like you, man. :)

“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dont preach it, just mention it :)

done and done.

done and done.

I also chimed in.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow

Great comment

" RobTam
I guess Gerry didn't get the memo. So, for his sake I will repeat it here so that he can save himself from future embarassment:

Date: June 1, 2009
To: All journalistic staffers;
From: Corporate Headquarters;

re: No Further reporting on 9/11

Given our role within the media to uphold the national interest and to preserve our vital relationship with the governing administration, you are no longer to report on the events of 9/11 in any way other than to affirm the official account provided through the 9/11 Commission Report.

In particular, you must refrain from engaging in any way, whether positively or negatively, with the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement." While in times past it was acceptable to ridicule and demean the movement as "fringe conspiracy nuts," in recent years their ranks have swelled to include many highly qualified and credible scholars, architects, engineers, lawyers, former military and intelligence officials, aviation professionals and religious leaders. Of special concern is a paper recently published in the peer-reviewed literature that documents the finding of unexploded, high-tech, nanothermitic material in the dust of the World Trade Center collapses, which very conclusively demonstrates their case for governmental complicity in the events of 9/11.

Engaging with the Truth Movement in any way provides an unacceptable opportunity for them to promulgate their evidence to an unwitting audience, which will further undermine our ability to protect our national and corporate interests. The best way to deal with the 9/11 Truth Movement is to ignore them.


The Management"

oh damn!


“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dont preach it, just mention it :)


Very clever. One of my favorites.

Pro 9/11 truth in Times Argus. Thanks to Dave Darton.

This may be an obscure media outlet, but we'll take whatever we can get:

Times Argus
This is a printer friendly version of an article from
To print this article open the file menu and choose Print.

Article published Jun 22, 2009
Question report on 9/11

I'm glad that Linda Carbonella Victoire's letter (June 14) expresses respect for Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. The media blackout of the 9/11 truth movement, which includes hundreds of highly credentialed Americans, has resulted in a disproportionate amount of misinformation. Professional people who have pointed out logistical problems with the official story of 9/11, because of the conspiracy theorist label, have done so at the risk of losing their credibility or their livelihood.

The 1970 documentary film "Building the World Trade Center" shows clearly that the buildings' primary support was not "their central elevator shaft" but 47 massive steel core columns, and that these columns were in fact anchored firmly to the bedrock. The perimeter columns were over-designed by 2000 percent. The tower's tube design provided superior resistance to lateral forces and became the standard for skyscrapers since the 1960s, including the Sears Tower. The WTC's lead engineer John Skilling said the towers could survive both the impact of a 707(cruising faster than today's 767) and the resulting jet fuel fire.

On 9/11 not only did the intact structures below the impact zones ultimately fail to resist the shifted loads from the damaged columns, they provided zero resistance, since the towers fell at virtually free-fall speed with perfect symmetry. Building 7, which was not hit by a plane, also collapsed in this manner.

So these would have been the three worst engineering failures in modern history, calling into question the safety of hundreds of similarly designed buildings. So why was there not the forensic investigation necessary to determined exactly how the buildings failed? The answer is that these were not structural failures but highly sophisticated controlled demolitions. This is the suspicion of virtually all of the architects and engineers who have been shown the footage of the Building 7 collapse.

Dave Darton


And here is another from that same Montpelier newspaper

Times Argus
This is a printer friendly version of an article from
To print this article open the file menu and choose Print.

Article published Jun 20, 2009
The truth about 9/11

I read with interest the letter from William Rice about 9/11 and the subsequent response from a reader to Rice's observations that discount all the facts that he presented. 9/11 discussions on op-ed pages rarely go well. One writer will offer an observation and then another will claim that observation to be absurd. This was exactly the case last week. No matter what fact you may present that shows the official version of events to be dubious, you will almost certainly be called a conspiracy theorist, or worse. TV personality and Fox News commentator Glenn Beck recently lumped those of us who claim to be part of the 9/11 Truth Movement in the same category as James W. Von Brunn, the man accused of murdering a guard at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC. It's a strange leap of logic, but 9/11 discussions rarely elicit logical thinking.

Here is a fact that we do know: All three buildings in New York collapsed at free fall speed. This is verified by both video footage and by seismic readings taken at Columbia University. The official version of events is that WTC 1 and 2 collapsed because fire from the jet collisions weakened the structure causing the top section to fall to the next lower level which collapsed. (WTC 7 is said to have collapsed solely from fires started by falling debris.) This is known as the pancake theory. Floor upon floor collapses to the level below all the way down.

But for this to happen at free fall speed, the laws of physics would have had to be suspended. The law of Conservation of Momentum says essentially that a motion will not change unless an external force acts upon it. Therefore, a moving object that encounters resistance will be slowed. Can you think of any instance where this wouldn't be true? So if the WTC buildings were pancaking down, they would have encountered resistance the entire route of descent. Free fall speed would have been impossible. The only possible explanation that would legitimize the pancake theory would be that resistance had been removed. Hmmm.

We don't know if the events of 9/11 were planned by anyone in government, or if they were executed by some entity outside government. We do know that the laws of physics can't be suspended. That should be enough to make anyone question the official version of events.

Larry Gilbert



They allowed some debunker comments

And have now turned on moderation. Correction: moderation for large comments.

I applied Prozac

Pearls are made from annoyances

I added some facts, but more important, tried to suggest a calm demeanor before the topic deteriorated into a cat fight.

All in all...a terrific exercise and many good facts lumped in one conprehensive thread. I tried to copy and paste the best ones, but couldn't.

49er posts

I tried posting at 4:20 PM EST and was given a notice that the post must wait for a moderator...perhaps because of length, or posting more than a set number of times. Here's what I left:

AMEC (CD part: Kingstar (7-7 & Pentagon)
Tully Construction (CD: Controlled Demolition Inc. ( WTC)

People involved with the "controlled cleanup":

Tully, Peter

(Tully Construction, subcontractor responsible for most excavation and trucking operations at the WTC. Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc.,Phoenix, Md, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995. Controlled Demolition is specialised in implosions of big towers, like i.e. the Landmark Hotel Tower* in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.) (1)

Mason, Sir Peter

(Chief Executive of AMEC, involved in renovation of the wedge of the Pentagon, which was later hit. Hired for Controlled Clean-up of both Pentagon and WTC.
Among Clients: SAIC and Telcordia/Robert W. Lucky, member of ANSER Institute for Homeland Security since 1999)

Taylor, Ross

(Chief Executive Officer of the Bovis Lend Lease Real Estate Solutions. Bovis Lend was involved in the controlled cleanup of the WTC rubble and renovation of Hotel Millennium Hilton, NYC until May 2003. On October 30, 2001 Bovis announced their division of Bovis Lend Lease Pharmaceutical)

Tully Construction

When contacted by the American Free Press (AFPN) and asked, if they ever had seen concrete pulverized as it was in the WTC, they said: "No-never". "Tully said, that there were hot spots where he observed 'literally molten steel'...Everything that was above grade -above the 6th and 7th floor was like an explosion" (AFPN/08/26/02)
"We had 75 trucks leaving a day during the first few days," says Tully.

Tully Construction of Flushing, NY is the only american-owned company who was hired for the "cleanup of Sep11th".
Earlier this year Tully received a contract by the MTA/New York City Transit Subway System in a joint venture with .J. Pegno of Flushing, N.Y., the project's general contractor.

Work includes 1,200 ft. of complete tunnel replacement, tunnel lighting and track and signal work. At Ground Zero Tully built concrete plugs to prevent dust and debris from further contaminating the entire line. "We used supersuckers in there to clean up the dust and debris. The plugs have since been removed," President Peter Tully noted.

Tully has been under a special monitoring arrangement with New York City since 1996; prior to that, it was banned from doing business with the city. Among conflicts it became embroiled in were complaints that it performed a shoddy job fixing up Brooklyn homes after a water main break.

Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc.,Phoenix, Md, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995. Controlled Demolition is specialised in implosions of big towers, like i.e. the Landmark Hotel Tower* in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.

Controlled Demolition had their first implosions in the 70s and worked several times for the US or local governments.
In 1991 they imploded the Old Orlando City Hall in Orlando, Florida.

In 1995 they imploded the Mendes Caldeira Building São Paulo Brazil(361 feet tall), as they say on their website, the "tallest standing concrete building ever felled with explosives". In 1998 they imploded a 439 feet, the "tallest structural steel building ever imploded"

Controlled Demolition claims to have "a very small number of employees" and not much known is about their business profile. They work together with the The Loizeaux Family.
In February 2000, a federal grand jury indicted Mark Loizeaux, Douglas Loizeaux and Controlled Demolition, Inc. on charges of falsely reporting campaign contributions to the campaign of Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.).
The Baltimore Sun reported, that the illegal contributions allegedly occurred between 1996 and 1998. The Loizeaux brothers and CDI were acquitted in September 2000.

On the internet, houndred of websites speculate since September 2001 about a possible controlled demolition inside the Twin Towers with bombs. J. McMichael was one of the first dozen engineers, who tried to wonder about the collapse.

A very impressive and intense discussion currently continues at

Summary from 9/11 truth:

We would like to have public disclosure of the reasons for a $150 million pre-9/11 Pentagon renovation by AMEC Plc. of the same section of the Pentagon Wedge 1 which was later officially attacked.
AMEC was later also responsible for the removal of the rubble at Ground Zero and the Pentagon.
AMEC's auditor is KPMG. In June 2002, they hired former FBI IT chief Robert J. Chiaradio as managing director and lead advisor on homeland security.

Furthermore another cleanup company named Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc., Phoenix, MD, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995.
Controlled Demolition is specialized in implosions of big towers, like the Landmark Hotel Tower* in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.
In May 2001, Controlled Demolition Inc. was involved in a controlled demolition of 2 Twin Gas Storage Towers in Queens, New York.

I was just thinking someone

I was just thinking someone with more time than me should publish reverse agent-provocateur type stuff where they allow commenting...that is, publish a hit piece, then we all go in and truth squad it. Give them a taste of their own medicine. Truth is clearly on the offensive these days.

The torture debate is where it's all progressing...IMO.

I agree. We should help each other out in comment debates.

I could use some help on Alternet. Every morning, any article that deals with any subject that is a consequence of 9/11, like war or torture or media censorship and wiretapping, gets a comment from me about 911.
And I get horribly flamed by some, like "Encino" and "GuitarBill" and others. They are ruthless, insulting, crude, but smart.

Go to

Actually there Alternet has had few articles I could bring 911 onto in the last few days. There are a few, though.

Agreed as well

How can we start sending each other articles to truth squad? There should be a collection somewhere so we can bombard them with FACTS

That's a great idea.

Somewhere here on blogger.........a place to put your website and comment and/or denier bs, and
get others to help.
We could really blast them.
I really think theirs is a concerted effort.
I'm not sure how it is done.
Maybe the CIA/FBI or other agency.
But it could be the Simon Weissenthal Center, or AIPAC, or a group of pseudo ipatriotic fundamentalist

But theirs is too organized, fast, the information they have flies out quickly.

I'd love to know who some of the people really are.
When I make a comment they know who I am.
But these guys are always completely ananymous.

We are being snaked.

Saw that goober

Brainster raise his ugly lying head there and couldnt help but respond again:

""The Justice Department had the lawyers’ copies destroyed and now wants to prevent a judge from even looking at the material."

Go ahead Brainster, tackle that, and tell me that there's no reason to re-open the investigation into 9/11. Sibel Edmonds story alone is enough reason to re-open the case.

The 9/11 truth movement wants to know why so many warnings were ignored, why NORAD made up 3 different stories, why no one ever asked Dick Cheney why he scheduled so many wargames for that day that mimicked the attacks, and yes, why the buildings fell apart the way they did.

Brainster, care to step outside of your anti-CD mode and tell us why we dont need a new investigation, given the facts I've presented here?"

“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dont preach it, just mention it :)


That MLK quote is fantastic- adding it as my e-mail signature.



You guys are awesome.

Plain Jane

I went with the Plain Jane WTC 7 comment to offset the sarcasm, humor and outright venting.... My stomach also hurts too much from laughing to go there. Great way to start the weekend.


I was reluctant to even read the article, hit pieces really piss me off, but I clicked the link anyways to check out the comments. The tide is definitely turning, people. The truth will overwhelm and dominate, we just need to keep it up. Ignorance and stupidity are no match for logic and wisdom. I am proud to be among you brave people, lets keep up the fight!!

49er Event

Roy A. Stokes (unregistered) wrote:

Okay,'s obvious to many of us that Gary is the Disinfo Op entrenched here. He exhibits all the signs, and a couple new ones they're using, now. This thread has had a good run, lots of information and sources, so why not get on to other fruitful things?

I thank this board for allowing this dialogue. I personally thank Gerry for many things, not the least of which is her courage.

And the courage of all other participants.

Gary, your "opinions" and suggestions may sound eloquent, but they won't hold up in any court of law. I researched your website referrences, and the skirt-around, suggestion-opinion mentality conducts all of it. Your vehemance in resisting 9/11 Truth consideration indicates much to those of us experienced at intellectual diversion. It's a course every serious Truther has to learn. Whatever your true standing in life, I assure you your efforts here are detrimental to the long scheme of things, with the exception of educating some Truthers (and other observers) how the disinformation mentality operates.

Link to comment:

Thanks, ABBY, for bringing this to us. It was a wonderful exercise, and I will be studying 9/11 Truth approaches from it; there's much to be learned from all the exchanges.

I left a final post this morning.

Pearls are made from annoyances

Okay, NEXT to last post...

Pearls are made from annoyances

[My response is in brackets- Roy]
Gary (unregistered) wrote, in response to Roy A. Stokes (unregistered):

Right Roy. The tired old "disinfo" line. [So obviously you’ve been at this a while, Gary. Why?] What an incredibly shallow dodge. [It’s actually a Plymouth.]

How about the "truth" community simply provide some credible proof for the nonsense they purport? [Several pages of it are posted on this thread.] Not a few select coincidences, [We cannot count the “coincidences’ of the 9/11 story.] not a bunch of YouTube videos with a porno beat, [ A porno beat is appropriate for the entire American population being screwed] not "engineering" analysis minus the formulas, [I found the formulas not only very well presented, but the rebuking of obfuscations was a nice touch] not people and things deliberately taken out of context, [No serious Truther takes anything out of context deliberately…the facts speak for themselves] not an endless list of links to all of these things over and over again [An endless list. Yes, it is, isn’t it, Gary?] -- but some actual proof. [Lead a horse to water…] A narrative that actually makes some sense and fits with the facts. [On YOUR terms, naturally.]

That's what we're all waiting for. [What group have you been chosen to represent here, Gary, or are you self-appointed? Who are the “we” and the “all”?]

That's what's going to be necessary if you hope to ever get beyond fringe of the fringe status in the minds of average Americans. [We don’t care about our “status”, there is no hierarchy in the Movement. “Fringe” is one of those psy-prompts, along with “conspiracy theorist” and “Manchurian Candidate”. There is no such thing as an “average American“; the real gauge is how much one submits to the system to be accepted by the “norm“ set by the system, or those who try to change the system altogether because it isn‘t inclusive. You‘re a perfect example of this.]

You "researched" my web site references and you're comfortable dismissing the information they contain. [I’ve studied this for eight intense years. I know what to dismiss.] Does this mean that you have a mathematically-supportable rebuttal to one of the top structural engineers in the country if not the world? [I don’t find “top” entities much more than those willing to take a lot of money. Remember; the Titanic was built by professionals, the Ark was built by amateurs.] Or does it just mean that all you really have is your stubbornness to offer as proof of anything? [There’s much to be said about stick-to-it-ness. You certainly own a boxful.]

Remember ..... the burden's on you guys. You're the ones way off in the corner with the strange and nonsensical ideas. It's up to you folks to convince the rest of us that up is really down, and the sky is really green -- with some solid proof. I think that's what you'd demand of other people, were they to accuse you of a mass murder you knew you didn't commit.
[The 9/11 Truth Movement formed because individuals knew or sensed something was terribly wrong about this whole event. It didn’t take much to start discovering gaps in the story and holes in the “facts” presented to a gullible public. It is the stubborn refusal to listen and at least try to understand the pleas of those voicing distress that allowed Nazi Germany to produce what is now in the holocaust museum.
By the way, Gary, I was near the Pentagon that morning. I know what I know, and no amount of your smug Chihuahua ankle-biting is going to convince me of anything else.]