Truth News Radio Australia Interview with Dr. Frank Legge on Pentagon Theories

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Tonight we welcome Dr. Frank Legge back to show for an extended discussion on one the most vexed questions about 9/11: what hit the Pentagon?

Dr. Legge has written an important paper on this topic which has been published at the Journal of 9/11 Studies.

As Dr. Legge stresses, there are two essential points to note:

  • Nothing should have hit the Pentagon.
  • This implies a stand-down order existed, as appears to be confirmed by Mineta’s testimony to the 9/11 Commission.The authorities could easily show us what hit the Pentagon but they do not.

Many researchers are not satisfied with stopping at these reasonable claims however, and want to propose more detailed theories about what really happened. During the show we critically examine some of the theories, with the help of Dan Collins, a regular contributor to TNRA.

We present below several key pieces of evidence often cited in investigations of the Pentagon attacks.

Below we reproduce the Pentagon Building Performance Report image showing that “no portion of the outer two-thirds of the right wing and no portion of the outer one-third of the left wing actually entered the building”.

Pentagon 3D image showing impact area and plane
More Images
Entry hole
Entry hole
Punch out hole
Punch out hole
Flight 77 wreckage
Flight 77 Wreckage

More Links:


Facts speak for themselves. We don't need to promote our theories to make the point that we were lied to, that the most horrific attack on American soil was never properly investigated, and that elements within our Government and others have EARNED the title of suspect for the crime of 9/11. But, feel free to ignore the words of someone that has been fighting this fight for 7 years, and has seen how well our theories "work" for us.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Jon ...

... people are still going to want to discuss what happened there, considering 125 people died.

But the discussion...

Shouldn't overtake, and shouldn't take up more time than people actually being active.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?


Here we go again!

“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Get out there.

"Shouldn't overtake, and shouldn't take up more time than people actually being active."


I speak...

When asked, I help people behind the scenes with regards to organizing events (getting in touch with certain people), I gave them the money they needed to finish PFT, I blog as often as possible, and update my website with not only 9/11 related news, but other news as well everyday, and also update this site, and several others on a regular basis.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

I fully agree with you Jon.

If Not Me? Who? If Not Now? When?

To clarify...

The 59 people on the plane were also killed?

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

The Pentagon

on 9/11/2001 was a crime scene and a aircraft accident scene. Neither was investigated thoroughly as is required by law. Why? The identification of military grade nano thermite in the WTC dust proves conclusively that the WTC was FALSE FLAG TERROR. Arguing about WHAT hit the pentagon is divide to conquer diversion. If the WTC was false flag, was the pentagon something else? Maybe someone out there has some souvenir dust from the pentagon that Dr. J could test.

I'm not qualified...

And I imagine that 99% of the rest of the movement isn't as well, to tell you whether or not nano-thermite was actually found in the dust (which is why I have asked for students to take the paper to their science teachers to ask them to verify it). Why wasn't anything thoroughly investigated, and why do people insist on promoting what they think happened when they simply don't have access to enough information to be able to do that accurately? Why am I still posting on about what I think people should promote when I could be spending my time being more productive for this cause?

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Promoting NYC CAN

is probably the best use of time and resources regarding the Pentagon----- if successful, they could subpoena the surveillance videos and we will get to see for ourselves what hit this building. They could also subpoena Norman Mineta and try to get to the bottom of Cheney's orders that morning. 1) When did Dick Cheney arrive in the bunker? 2) What were his orders: shoot down or stand down?

Certainly nothing SHOULD have hit the Pentagon.... It was never PROVEN to be AA 77....... Mineta contradicts Cheney...... And we DESERVE to see the videos. So let's support NYC CAN instead of wasting time theorizing.

I agree.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?


You have dedicated many, many years and untold time and energy to help bring truth and justice to 9/11.

Those who have lived within the truth family from the earliest days and years can't help but have different perspectives and engagement with the issues - as well as with others - than those who joined the movement further along, are being welcomed today, and will join the mission in the future.

Nothing - and no one - will ever take anything away from all that you've done and are doing.

If you can trust in nothing else, trust in that.

Nice program Frank! It was

Nice program Frank! It was neat to hear your voice.

I admire your patience and perseverance with this.

Makes perfect sense to me, Dr. Legge

I don't understand why factions within the Truth Movement bother to argue about the Pentagon.

It doesn't make logical sense to push any particular argument forward about it or to give much energy to it - because the proof of controlled demolition at the WTC is so very good. The WTC analysis is sufficient to achieve the ends of the 911 Truth Movement.

The Pentagon arguments are unresolvable by comparison to the WTC. Only a renewed investigation can get video released, wreckage released, etc that will shed light on what exactly happened at the Pentagon. So, obviously, it makes no sense to push any particular theory about it. The WTC analysis has the muscle to obtain a renewed investigation which would then, of course, include the release of Pentagon video, wreckage, etc.

If I were some sort of disinformation agent, I would try to get everyone talking about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. The Pentagon is perfect for that.

In any arguments I, personally, get into about 911 -- I always concentrate on the Towers and Building 7... because I see a checkmate looming there for the official story. Whenever I hear someone trying to get me into an argument about the Pentagon, I regard it as a tactical ploy attempting to get me arguing over something where there is NO CHECKMATE!

I want to see the 911 Truth Movement FORCE A CHECKMATE!!

And it seems obvious to me that "Active Thermitic Material...WTC Dust" forces the official story to resign. Once the resignation is made public, we can get the classified materials released that will show what happened in Washington.

Think logically!

I reply

First of all, who is "pushing" any particular theory re what happened at the Pentagon? The analysis of the FDR data allegedly from flight 77 done by Pilots for 9/11 Truth indicates that the data has been falsified. Moreover, we know that none of the aircraft debris found at any of the four crash sites has been positively identified -- we can thank Aidan Monighan for that knowledge. The investigative work of CIT who has interviewed numerous eye witnesses indicates that the plane observed by these witnesses could not have caused the physical damage at the Pentagon because it was on a flight path inconsistent with that damage. Now, from all this analysis it is REASONABLE to conclude that NO plane impacted the building. No one is "pushing" this as a "theory" -- it is a reasonable conclusion drawn from the evidence obtained -- just as it is reasonable to conclude that the WTC was a demolition based on a variety of observations including the discovery of non-reacted active thermatic material in the WTC dust.

The problem here is that there are some people who, for whatever reason, can not grasp the significance of the research done at the Pentagon. Rather than reviewing it objectively they often misrepresent it and attack those who have uncovered it. If we stick to evaluating the evidence as evidence we're not going to get into these internal disputes. There is no reason for any 'division' within the truth movement. The evidence is consistent at all crash locations that what we're dealing with here is a deception. Understanding precisely how that deception was orchestrated at each site -- and how this deception has continued and been galvanized in the public mind -- is an important aspect of what 9/11 Truth is trying to do. Yes, we all want a new investigation, absolutely. But if we don't understand how these deceptions work, to what trouble the perpetrators will go to stage it and cover it up creating a false, largely media-driven perception of events, how are we going to insure that this "investigation" (if, indeed, we ever have one) won't become just another cover-up foot note to history?

IN THE MEAN TIME, the research that has been done and made public guarantees that at least in the arena of public discourse, there is considerable, verifiable data that questions the established perception of 9/11 if not disproves it outright. CIT, for example, has done something no one else has done by interviewing, recording and making public significant eye-witnesses to this event. ALL other accounts are unverified by comparison -- pure hearsay. They are now a part of history whatever conclusion you draw from them. We need this at all the 9/11 crash sites -- and perhaps especially at the Pentagon precisely because it implicates not only the DoD but the military industrial complex and the national security state itself. If this is the level of house-cleaning that needs to be done to guarantee our future security, we need to know it. We need to be very clear about what we're up against here and we need to build bridges to those who are loyal to the Constitution and the national ideals no matter what sector of society they are in. The Pilots for Truth and CIT research has opened the door to this process just as the work done at the WTC has begun to attract attention from professional architects, engineers and science academics.

Please, if we're going to argue, lets address the evidence, not the personalities.

But all of that it is not a checkmate

Whereas, active thermite material in the dust IS A CHECKMATE.

No matter how strange the evidence and whatnot, the Pentagon arguments have no clear, simple-to-understand, peer-reviewed, summary that you can thrust into the hands of lawmakers or show to newcomers.

I've read all about the Pentagon, watched the CIT films, etc - but there is simply not enough there that can get enough traction with with people who scoff at conspiracy theories; that can force them to recognize that a renewed investigation is absolutely justified.

It is only the strong scientific analysis behind the WTC events that can force a renewed investigation. Pentagon arguers will merely remain arguers - interminably. That's not what we need.

We need a simple, clear checkmate. The damning analysis of the dust along with the violation of physics, molten metal, witnesses, etc is, by far, the best way to go.

While your point is well taken,

I do have to make one observation. When you talk about people "scoffing at conspiracy theories:" I think this contingent of society is completely beyond help no matter how much proof there is.

We (well, not me, but many) in the movement who are veterans with it, tend to view the CD of WTC as sane, sober evidence, whereas "staged light poles" and "flyover" might come across to some as irresponsible speculation.

However, to those who are going to "scoff at conspiracy theories" no matter what, the CD of WTC and Pentagon theories are just as equally nutty. Here is extremely sad proof of that. What's especially sad is that this thread was created in 2009, after the Active Thermitic Material paper, and long after Gage's group has hundreds of petionees. Ten pages, 200 posts, almost all of them from everyday, angry OCT believing firefighters, ridiculing Fire Fighters for Truth. A few truther firefighters who registered there to post were greeted with "Go away" even after posting the link to the Bentham paper and alerting the board to the existence of ae911truth. The OCT believers simply went to Google and typed in "Richard Gage debunked," found a bunch of stuff from JREF and slapped it down, saying "There. Debunked. Go away." That thread seriously made me lose my faith in the human condition and I've got a good mind to show up at the firehouse of "Col. George Wendt" and confront him WAC style.

Anyway, my point being: this movement sometimes gets a little TOO concerned about how we "might look" to the rest of the world. Forget it. Just plow ahead and seek truth, appearances be damned.

But I do understand your point about checkmate.

I make a point of reading all the down voted comments because I find many of them to be the best comments. - Atomicbomb

Dearth is completely

Dearth is completely right.

The CIT nonsense is pure disinformation. The collapse physics and nanothermite is actual physical proof and is a checkmate.

The flyover/missile theories have no evidence backing them up but cherry-picked eye-witness accounts. The physical evidence is consistent with a plane.

It should ring alarm bells that the opposition always tries to direct conversation to the Pentagon as do the mainstream media, gee I wonder why that is........

As a skilled chess player I can easily spot diversionary tactics and decoy targets. When playing chess when one sees a winning combination, one takes it, one does not try for a more 'elegant' fancy solution that includes more pieces and has more chance of failure.

Here's something to read on the issue:

I agree 100% with you Painter.

Well said.

Leggae Misquoted Mineta

In this "important paper on this topic", Leggae says, "Does the order still stand?"

It's PLURAL, not SINGULAR. The quote is, "Do the orders still stand?"

This type of careless and easily checked error will kill credibility. He needs to go through this paper again.

The "orders" leads to the possibility that the June 1st Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction on "Air Piracy" are the "orders" in question:

This topic leads to other principals in the chain of command and their inaction:

1) Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense, missing and unable to be contacted during this entire period. His authority and "approval" were required for any shoot down orders, as per the above Joint Chiefs of Staff Instructions.

2) Bush, President, also had the authority to issue a shoot down order. Ignored the notification that "America is under attack" at 9:05am, and was derelict (treasonous?) in his duties to defend the US from this "attack." No shoot down authorization granted during period from 9:05am until the pentagon event at 9:37am.


Ignore the CIT and their preaching. Most likely a psyop.


You miss spelt Legge?

You miss spelt Legge?

You should write to Dr Legge if you wish to correct him, contact him at the Journal of 9/11 Studies :)

Regards John

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

I second your reply...


Your reply reflects the brushstrokes of wisdom.

Noone cares if you agree.

Noone cares if you agree. Please contribute to the debate