The American Conservative: Who's Afraid Of Sibel Edmonds?

The gagged whistleblower goes on the record.

Source: amconmag.com

BY SIBEL EDMONDS AND PHILIP GIRALDI

Sibel Edmonds has a story to tell. She went to work as a Turkish and Farsi translator for the FBI five days after 9/11. Part of her job was to translate and transcribe recordings of conversations between suspected Turkish intelligence agents and their American contacts. She was fired from the FBI in April 2002 after she raised concerns that one of the translators in her section was a member of a Turkish organization that was under investigation for bribing senior government officials and members of Congress, drug trafficking, illegal weapons sales, money laundering, and nuclear proliferation. She appealed her termination, but was more alarmed that no effort was being made to address the corruption that she had been monitoring.

A Department of Justice inspector general’s report called Edmonds’s allegations “credible,” “serious,” and “warrant[ing] a thorough and careful review by the FBI.” Ranking Senate Judiciary Committee members Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) have backed her publicly. “60 Minutes” launched an investigation of her claims and found them believable. No one has ever disproved any of Edmonds’s revelations, which she says can be verified by FBI investigative files.

John Ashcroft’s Justice Department confirmed Edmonds’s veracity in a backhanded way by twice invoking the dubious State Secrets Privilege so she could not tell what she knows. The ACLU has called her “the most gagged person in the history of the United States of America.”

But on Aug. 8, she was finally able to testify under oath in a court case filed in Ohio and agreed to an interview with The American Conservative based on that testimony. What follows is her own account of what some consider the most incredible tale of corruption and influence peddling in recent times. As Sibel herself puts it, “If this were written up as a novel, no one would believe it.”

* * *

PHILIP GIRALDI: We were very interested to learn of your four-hour deposition in the case involving allegations that Congresswoman Jean Schmidt accepted money from the Turkish government in return for political favors. You provided many names and details for the first time on the record and swore an oath confirming that the deposition was true.

Basically, you map out a corruption scheme involving U.S. government employees and members of Congress and agents of foreign governments. These agents were able to obtain information that was either used directly by those foreign governments or sold to third parties, with the proceeds often used as bribes to breed further corruption. Let’s start with the first government official you identified, Marc Grossman, then the third highest-ranking official at the State Department.

SIBEL EDMONDS: During my work with the FBI, one of the major operational files that I was transcribing and translating started in late 1996 and continued until 2002, when I left the Bureau. Because the FBI had had no Turkish translators, these files were archived, but were considered to be very important operations. As part of the background, I was briefed about why these operations had been initiated and who the targets were.

Grossman became a person of interest early on in the investigative file while he was the U.S. ambassador to Turkey [1994-97], when he became personally involved with operatives both from the Turkish government and from suspected criminal groups. He also had suspicious contact with a number of official and non-official Israelis. Grossman was removed from Turkey short of tour during a scandal referred to as “Susurluk” by the media. It involved a number of high-level criminals as well as senior army and intelligence officers with whom he had been in contact.

Another individual who was working for Grossman, Air Force Major Douglas Dickerson, was also removed from Turkey and sent to Germany. After he and his Turkish wife Can returned to the U.S., he went to work for Douglas Feith and she was hired as an FBI Turkish translator. My complaints about her connection to Turkish lobbying groups led to my eventual firing.

Grossman and Dickerson had to leave the country because a big investigation had started in Turkey. Special prosecutors were appointed, and the case was headlined in England, Germany, Italy, and in some of the Balkan countries because the criminal groups were found to be active in all those places. A leading figure in the scandal, Mehmet Eymür, led a major paramilitary group for the Turkish intelligence service. To keep him from testifying, Eymür was sent by the Turkish government to the United States, where he worked for eight months as head of intelligence at the Turkish Embassy in Washington. He later became a U.S. citizen and now lives in McLean, Virginia. The central figure in this scandal was Abdullah Catli. In 1989, while “most wanted” by Interpol, he came to the U.S., was granted residency, and settled in Chicago, where he continued to conduct his operations until 1996.

GIRALDI: So Grossman at this point comes back to the United States. He’s rewarded with the third-highest position at the State Department, and he allegedly uses this position to do favors for “Turkish interests”—both for the Turkish government and for possible criminal interests. Sometimes, the two converge. The FBI is aware of his activities and is listening to his phone calls. When someone who is Turkish calls Grossman, the FBI monitors that individual’s phone calls, and when the Turk calls a friend who is a Pakistani or an Egyptian or a Saudi, they monitor all those contacts, widening the net.

EDMONDS: Correct.

GIRALDI: And Grossman received money as a result. In one case, you said that a State Department colleague went to pick up a bag of money…

EDMONDS: $14,000

GIRALDI: What kind of information was Grossman giving to foreign countries? Did he give assistance to foreign individuals penetrating U.S. government labs and defense installations as has been reported? It’s also been reported that he was the conduit to a group of congressmen who become, in a sense, the targets to be recruited as “agents of influence.”

EDMONDS: Yes, that’s correct. Grossman assisted his Turkish and Israeli contacts directly, and he also facilitated access to members of Congress who might be inclined to help for reasons of their own or could be bribed into cooperation. The top person obtaining classified information was Congressman Tom Lantos. A Lantos associate, Alan Makovsky worked very closely with Dr. Sabri Sayari in Georgetown University, who is widely believed to be a Turkish spy. Lantos would give Makovsky highly classified policy-related documents obtained during defense briefings for passage to Israel because Makovsky was also working for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

GIRALDI: Makovsky is now working for the Washington Institute for Near Eastern Policy, a pro-Israeli think tank.

EDMONDS: Yes. Lantos was at the time probably the most outspoken supporter of Israel in Congress. AIPAC would take out the information from Lantos that was relevant to Israel, and they would give the rest of it to their Turkish associates. The Turks would go through the leftovers, take what they wanted, and then try to sell the rest. If there were something relevant to Pakistan, they would contact the ISI officer at the embassy and say, “We’ve got this and this, let’s sit down and talk.” And then they would sell it to the Pakistanis.

GIRALDI: ISI—Pakistani intelligence—has been linked to the Pakistani nuclear proliferation program as well as to al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

So the FBI was monitoring these connections going from a congressman to a congressman’s assistant to a foreign individual who is connected with intelligence to other intelligence people who are located at different embassies in Washington. And all of this information is in an FBI file somewhere?

EDMONDS: Two sets of FBI files, but the AIPAC-related files and the Turkish files ended up converging in one. The FBI agents believed that they were looking at the same operation. It didn’t start with AIPAC originally. It started with the Israeli Embassy. The original targets were intelligence officers under diplomatic cover in the Turkish Embassy and the Israeli Embassy. It was those contacts that led to the American Turkish Council and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations and then to AIPAC fronting for the Israelis. It moved forward from there.

GIRALDI: So the FBI was monitoring people from the Israeli Embassy and the Turkish Embassy and one, might presume, the Pakistani Embassy as well?

EDMONDS: They were the secondary target. They got leftovers from the Turks and Israelis. The FBI would intercept communications to try to identify who the diplomatic target’s intelligence chief was, but then, in addition to that, there are individuals there, maybe the military attaché, who had their own contacts who were operating independently of others in the embassy.

GIRALDI: So the network starts with a person like Grossman in the State Department providing information that enables Turkish and Israeli intelligence officers to have access to people in Congress, who then provide classified information that winds up in the foreign embassies?

EDMONDS: Absolutely. And we also had Pentagon officials doing the same thing. We were looking at Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. They had a list of individuals in the Pentagon broken down by access to certain types of information. Some of them would be policy related, some of them would be weapons-technology related, some of them would be nuclear-related. Perle and Feith would provide the names of those Americans, officials in the Pentagon, to Grossman, together with highly sensitive personal information: this person is a closet gay; this person has a chronic gambling issue; this person is an alcoholic. The files on the American targets would contain things like the size of their mortgages or whether they were going through divorces. One Air Force major I remember was going through a really nasty divorce and a child custody fight. They detailed all different kinds of vulnerabilities.

GIRALDI: So they had access to their personnel files and also their security files and were illegally accessing this kind of information to give to foreign agents who exploited the vulnerabilities of these people to recruit them as sources of information?

EDMONDS: Yes. Some of those individuals on the list were also working for the RAND Corporation. RAND ended up becoming one of the prime targets for these foreign agents.

GIRALDI: RAND does highly classified research for the U.S. government. So they were setting up these people for recruitment as agents or as agents of influence?

EDMONDS: Yes, and the RAND sources would be paid peanuts compared to what the information was worth when it was sold if it was not immediately useful for Turkey or Israel. They also had sources who were working in some midwestern Air Force bases. The sources would provide the information on CD’s and DVD’s. In one case, for example, a Turkish military attaché got the disc and discovered that it was something really important, so he offered it to the Pakistani ISI person at the embassy, but the price was too high. Then a Turkish contact in Chicago said he knew two Saudi businessmen in Detroit who would be very interested in this information, and they would pay the price. So the Turkish military attaché flew to Detroit with his assistant to make the sale.

GIRALDI: We know Grossman was receiving money for services.

EDMONDS: Yes. Sometimes he would give money to the people who were working with him, identified in phone calls on a first-name basis, whether it’s a John or a Joe. He also took care of some other people, including his contact at the New York Times. Grossman would brag, “We just fax to our people at the New York Times. They print it under their names.”

GIRALDI: Did Feith and Perle receive any money that you know of?

EDMONDS: No.

GIRALDI: So they were doing favors for other reasons. Both Feith and Perle were lobbyists for Turkey and also were involved with Israel on defense contracts, including some for Northrop Grumman, which Feith represented in Israel.

EDMONDS: They had arrangements with various companies, some of them members of the American Turkish Council. They had arrangements with Kissinger’s group, with Northrop Grumman, with former secretary of state James Baker’s group, and also with former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft.

The monitoring of the Turks picked up contacts with Feith, Wolfowitz, and Perle in the summer of 2001, four months before 9/11. They were discussing with the Turkish ambassador in Washington an arrangement whereby the U.S. would invade Iraq and divide the country. The UK would take the south, the rest would go to the U.S. They were negotiating what Turkey required in exchange for allowing an attack from Turkish soil. The Turks were very supportive, but wanted a three-part division of Iraq to include their own occupation of the Kurdish region. The three Defense Department officials said that would be more than they could agree to, but they continued daily communications to the ambassador and his defense attaché in an attempt to convince them to help.

Meanwhile Scowcroft, who was also the chairman of the American Turkish Council, Baker, Richard Armitage, and Grossman began negotiating separately for a possible Turkish protectorate. Nothing was decided, and then 9/11 took place.

Scowcroft was all for invading Iraq in 2001 and even wrote a paper for the Pentagon explaining why the Turkish northern front would be essential. I know Scowcroft came off as a hero to some for saying he was against the war, but he was very much for it until his client’s conditions were not met by the Bush administration.

GIRALDI: Armitage was deputy secretary of state at the time Scowcroft and Baker were running their own consulting firms that were doing business with Turkey. Grossman had just become undersecretary, third in the State hierarchy behind Armitage.

You’ve previouly alluded to efforts by Grossman, as well as high-ranking officials at the Pentagon, to place Ph.D. students. Can you describe that in more detail?

EDMONDS: The seeding operation started before Marc Grossman arrived at the State Department. The Turkish agents had a network of Turkish professors in various universities with access to government information. Their top source was a Turkish-born professor of nuclear physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He was useful because MIT would place a bunch of Ph.D. or graduate-level students in various nuclear facilities like Sandia or Los Alamos, and some of them were able to work for the Air Force. He would provide the list of Ph.D. students who should get these positions. In some cases, the Turkish military attaché would ask that certain students be placed in important positions. And they were not necessarily all Turkish, but the ones they selected had struck deals with the Turkish agents to provide information in return for money. If for some reason they had difficulty getting a secuity clearance, Grossman would ensure that the State Department would arrange to clear them.

In exchange for the information that these students would provide, they would be paid $4,000 or $5,000. And the information that was sold to the two Saudis in Detroit went for something like $350,000 or $400,000.

GIRALDI: This corruption wasn’t confined to the State Department and the Pentagon—it infected Congress as well. You’ve named people like former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, now a registered agent of the Turkish government. In your deposition, you describe the process of breaking foreign-originated contributions into small units, $200 or less, so that the source didn’t have to be reported. Was this the primary means of influencing congressmen, or did foreign agents exploit vulnerabilities to get what they wanted using something like blackmail?

EDMONDS: In early 1997, because of the information that the FBI was getting on the Turkish diplomatic community, the Justice Department had already started to investigate several Republican congressmen. The number-one congressman involved with the Turkish community, both in terms of providing information and doing favors, was Bob Livingston. Number-two after him was Dan Burton, and then he became number-one until Hastert became the speaker of the House. Bill Clinton’s attorney general, Janet Reno, was briefed on the investigations, and since they were Republicans, she authorized that they be continued.

Well, as the FBI developed more information, Tom Lantos was added to this list, and then they got a lot on Douglas Feith and Richard Perle and Marc Grossman. At this point, the Justice Department said they wanted the FBI to only focus on Congress, leaving the executive branch people out of it. But the FBI agents involved wanted to continue pursuing Perle and Feith because the Israeli Embassy was also connected. Then the Monica Lewinsky scandal erupted, and everything was placed on the back burner.

But some of the agents continued to investigate the congressional connection. In 1999, they wiretapped the congressmen directly. (Prior to that point they were getting all their information secondhand through FISA, as their primary targets were foreigners.) The questionably legal wiretap gave the perfect excuse to the Justice Department. As soon as they found out, they refused permission to monitor the congressmen and Grossman as primary targets. But the inquiry was kept alive in Chicago because the FBI office there was pursuing its own investigation. The epicenter of a lot of the foreign espionage activity was Chicago.

GIRALDI: So the investigation stopped in Washington, but continued in Chicago?

EDMONDS: Yes, and in 2000, another representative was added to the list, Jan Schakowsky, the Democratic congresswoman from Illinois. Turkish agents started gathering information on her, and they found out that she was bisexual. So a Turkish agent struck up a relationship with her. When Jan Schakowsky’s mother died, the Turkish woman went to the funeral, hoping to exploit her vulnerability. They later were intimate in Schakowsky’s townhouse, which had been set up with recording devices and hidden cameras. They needed Schakowsky and her husband Robert Creamer to perform certain illegal operational facilitations for them in Illinois. They already had Hastert, the mayor, and several other Illinois state senators involved. I don’t know if Congresswoman Schakowsky ever was actually blackmailed or did anything for the Turkish woman.

GIRALDI: So we have a pattern of corruption starting with government officials providing information to foreigners and helping them make contact with other Americans who had valuable information. Some of these officials, like Marc Grossman, were receiving money directly. Others were receiving business favors: Pentagon associates like Doug Feith and Richard Perle had interests in Israel and Turkey. The stolen information was being sold, and the money that was being generated was used to corrupt certain congressmen to influence policy and provide still more information—in many cases information related to nuclear technology.

EDMONDS: As well as weapons technology, conventional weapons technology, and Pentagon policy-related information.

GIRALDI: You also have information on al-Qaeda, specifically al-Qaeda in Central Asia and Bosnia. You were privy to conversations that suggested the CIA was supporting al-Qaeda in central Asia and the Balkans, training people to get money, get weapons, and this contact continued until 9/11…

EDMONDS: I don’t know if it was CIA. There were certain forces in the U.S. government who worked with the Turkish paramilitary groups, including Abdullah Çatli’s group, Fethullah Gülen.

GIRALDI: Well, that could be either Joint Special Operations Command or CIA.

EDMONDS: Maybe in a lot of cases when they said State Department, they meant CIA?

GIRALDI: When they said State Department, they probably meant CIA.

EDMONDS: Okay. So these conversations, between 1997 and 2001, had to do with a Central Asia operation that involved bin Laden. Not once did anybody use the word “al-Qaeda.” It was always “mujahideen,” always “bin Laden” and, in fact, not “bin Laden” but “bin Ladens” plural. There were several bin Ladens who were going on private jets to Azerbaijan and Tajikistan. The Turkish ambassador in Azerbaijan worked with them.

There were bin Ladens, with the help of Pakistanis or Saudis, under our management. Marc Grossman was leading it, 100 percent, bringing people from East Turkestan into Kyrgyzstan, from Kyrgyzstan to Azerbaijan, from Azerbaijan some of them were being channeled to Chechnya, some of them were being channeled to Bosnia. From Turkey, they were putting all these bin Ladens on NATO planes. People and weapons went one way, drugs came back.

GIRALDI: Was the U.S. government aware of this circular deal?

EDMONDS: 100 percent. A lot of the drugs were going to Belgium with NATO planes. After that, they went to the UK, and a lot came to the U.S. via military planes to distribution centers in Chicago and Paterson, New Jersey. Turkish diplomats who would never be searched were coming with suitcases of heroin.

GIRALDI: And, of course, none of this has been investigated. What do you think the chances are that the Obama administration will try to end this criminal activity?

EDMONDS: Well, even during Obama’s presidential campaign, I did not buy into his slogan of “change” being promoted by the media and, unfortunately, by the naïve blogosphere. First of all, Obama’s record as a senator, short as it was, spoke clearly. For all those changes that he was promising, he had done nothing. In fact, he had taken the opposite position, whether it was regarding the NSA’s wiretapping or the issue of national-security whistleblowers. We whistleblowers had written to his Senate office. He never responded, even though he was on the relevant committees.

As soon as Obama became president, he showed us that the State Secrets Privilege was going to continue to be a tool of choice. It’s an arcane executive privilege to cover up wrongdoing—in many cases, criminal activities. And the Obama administration has not only defended using the State Secrets Privilege, it has been trying to take it even further than the previous terrible administration by maintaining that the U.S. government has sovereign immunity. This is Obama’s change: his administration seems to think it doesn’t even have to invoke state secrets as our leaders are emperors who possess this sovereign immunity. This is not the kind of language that anybody in a democracy would use.

The other thing I noticed is how Chicago, with its culture of political corruption, is central to the new administration. When I saw that Obama’s choice of chief of staff was Rahm Emanuel, knowing his relationship with Mayor Richard Daley and with the Hastert crowd, I knew we were not going to see positive changes. Changes possibly, but changes for the worse. It was no coincidence that the Turkish criminal entity’s operation centered on Chicago.
__________________________________________

Sibel Edmonds is a former FBI translator and the founder of the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition. Philip Giraldi is a former CIA officer and The American Conservative’s Deep Background columnist.

The American Conservative welcomes letters to the editor.
Send letters to: letters@amconmag.com

I think...

This is EXTREMELY important in relation to what Sibel is alleging.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

UPDATES

And It’s Not Only Sibel Edmonds Who Says So
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2009/09/28/and-its-not-only-sibel-edmonds-w...

VIDEO: Schakowsky Publicly Denies Affair With Turkish Agent as 'Total Fantasy', 'Totally Made Up'
FBI whistleblower Edmonds stands by allegations, challenges IL Dem Congresswoman to 'bring a libel suit against me'...
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7436

EDIT:
CIA Vet: FBI Whistleblower Edmonds 'Very Credible'
Longtime counterterrorism agent, Phil Giraldi comments on FBI vet John Cole's recent confirmation of Bush official targeted in 'decade-long' espionage probe
(Giraldi also slated to be my guest on Wed.'s 'Malloy Show')
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7440

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

Show "corruption abyss - more resources" by jonathan mark

Kudos Sibel! WTF Jonathan?

This really is explosive. Thank you Ms Edmonds for taking a stand. We should all aspire to be so brave.

Not that this belongs here, but Jon Mark, if you believe that Horowitz is correct, you should start a new blog topic (though probably not on a 911 site). People are working hard to keep the integrity of the 911 investigation focused, and not go off willy-nilly on some Alex Jones-esque plot. Claims like deadly flu vaccines (4 months ago it was just deadly flu) may only promote discredibility from outside sources, providing fuel for 911 truthers to be seen as wingnuts. Its more important than ever to keep the attention on 911, as great strides have been made in the past few weeks.

So regarding Horowitz and his hunt for his Warhol 15 minutes, I can't take a side on his claims one way or the other as I'm not a biochemist (but hey, Horowitz was a dentist!!), but tell me, what would be the logic in 1. creating a deadly virus to kill humanity (do the NWO perpetrators wish to live alone?) and/or 2. create a deadly vaccine to kill all Americans (gee, that would really suck for tax collection and conscription). Debatable as this may be, has it ever occurred to you that a wholly more viable and sinister plan may be at work here (I'm letting loose a more logical imagination): develop a nasty virus and a workable vaccine, and then target all those meddling NWO conspiracy nuts with an AJ fed dis-info campaign which scares them into NOT taking the life-saving vaccine. Now that would fit the predictable response of the public, because you gotta admit, under your theory the powers that be would be left with a bunch of dead sheeple, while the most dangerous elements of society (those who resist) remained alive. YET, from this other perspective, all the subservient sheeple remain alive by taking the vaccine and all the troublesome morons fall victim to the flu.

Just a thought.

Of course,

J Bax, but what is YOUR priestly bloodline ;)

I was being

facetious. This is the good doctor's affidavit:

"4.I further disclose that I am a Levite priest by virtue of my bloodline, spiritual direction, and ecclesiastical commitments. I am the body corporate and Overseer of The Royal Bloodline of David, an omni-denominational healing ministry established in the State of Washington and certified by the Secretary of State therein in 2000..."

I agree, but....

Yes I think that we must keep the integrity of the 9/11 movement. We've come a long way indeed, from people trying to distract us with wacky theories in the early days, until now when we have a remarkably well-defined case. Let's keep it that way, especially when we relate to the public.

BUT, for me, 9/11 has provided a window into the hidden inner workings of the world, and it should not be considered an isolated incident. 'They' don't give a hoot about us. You should not expect 'them' to be like we are. Nor should you even expect 'them' to be rational. You need only look at history, with all of its wars and genocide in which 'they' played a dominant role, to conclude this. We can only guess at what they have planned for us next .

We have a long way to go before we 'win'. We have to be ready for anything. I take the threat of the flu/vaccine seriously, and people should read up on this. As odd as Horowitz's affidavit may seem to some, I thank him for it. You must remember that we 'truthers' seemed like pretty odd ducks too, only five years ago.

Yet I agree with you, at least on how we treat the 9/11 issues. And excuse me for being a bit off-topic here too.

one hurdle at a time

Hey, I said I made no decision either way regarding the flu stuff, and only suggested another "theory". Take it however you want.

But seriously, lets agree that the best chances of cracking this nut so far (and ALL the deception we've gotten has indeed created a very big nut) would be with exposing 911. The evidence had been dutifully amassed, credibility has steadily climbed, and the word is spreading (like a virus..). Truth here would alter things beyond imagination (lets hope for the better) and have far reaching effects, including the potential exposure other secret plots, lets also hope. So for now, as steam builds, lets not blow it by endorsing Horowitz as a spokesman in the same caliber as those who've worked so hard on this for so many years. Sorry to be one who judges a book by the cover here, but his endorsement of New Age therapies, numerology, and apocalypse prophecies will be a blow to us by all the tin-hat labelers out there. While I wouldn't doubt he's actually a sincere and nice guy, he just sadly an easy target.

9/11 anthrax-horowitz and false flag ops

According to Dr. Leonard Horowitz, the prior time he contacted the FBI, he warned them about the impending anthrax attacks one week before the first mailings were announced in the press. It took 6 months to get a response, and when they did, they made him a suspect in the mailings.

Instead of focusing on the disconnect of different issues, I believe it is time for us to start connecting the dots to try to get ahead of the next false flag operation. This is what Dr. Horowitz is doing.. and his credentials as an expert in the field of emerging diseases, and author of "Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola--Nature, Accident or Intentional?" is significant.

So, Horowitz is a non-conformist and has some idiosyncracies.. what is new is in this h1n1 virus and vaccine that was created not for the public good.. and not just to phase out truthers not taking the vaccine.. the reason i wrote about this action by horowitz to alert the fbi on another false flag possibility, is that it is doing something in advance.. and not just reacting afterward.. when we are behind the eight ball..

also.. personally.. i had good reactions from taking oxysilver, to kill the pathogens generated by bio-weapon research ending up as lyme disease..

i realize that most groups stay focused in their one issue.. but that has been the problem.. why the peace movement is not out in the streets calling for a new 9/11 investigation.

in any case.. the points replied to my comment can be taken as something out of topic..or without as much merit of the evidence of wtc-7 implosions.. but in taking action with the fbi to investigate those behind the vaccines, those behind the criminal group in nyc taking down asbestos buildings and stealing billions.. and now seeing a connection to the crazy pharmas.. something to consider..

jonathan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
News fit to transmit in post Cassini flyby era
<>~<>~ www.FlybyNews.com ~<>~<>
<> for life's survival in the 21st Century <>
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The boy...

Who cried wolf.

This is the #**@!$%* 9/11 Truth Movement!!!


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

anthrax warning.. vaccine warning.. where's the wolf?

jon,

your calling a possible false flag operation crying wolf may not be healthy.. for you and others..

you will be like the towns people not responding to a real wolf siting.. since the first time the boy cried world (horowitz and military-grade anthrax stuff), the wolf ran away.. but now with all the evidence of manufactured pandemics and experimental medicine owned by the military industrial complex... putting off an expert affidavit testimony is like blowing smoke in the mirror.. and fogging up a real issue we should be aware about..

jonathan

***************************************
News in the post Cassini flyby era
~<>~ www.FlybyNews.com ~<>~
for life's survival in the 21st Century
******************************************

Exactly

And therefore the point is not whether there is danger (we know that) but whether or not those calling it out are believed.

exactly..

so i have researched horowitz to some degree, and saw his film "In Lie We Trust" - i looked through his book.. he is an emerging disease specialist out of harvard.. his product oxysilver works. i have personal experience with this. it was developed and used by NASA and is a good alternative for harmful antibiotics and vaccines..

sure you can find something to discredit him with.. but not his responding to authorities about where the 9/11 anthrax came from before it was publicly realized.. i recommend his earlier book for deeper understanding of where he is coming from: "Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola--Nature, Accident or Intentional?"

and his affidavit is specific.. and names names.. why would horowitz stick his neck out to the FBI? one answer i get is that he is trying to stop this attenuated-laced flu vaccines from being sent around the world..

this push with h1n1 is the red flag.. not an emerging disease specialist trying to provide a better direction for maintaining our health during the current crises.

it is easy to discredit anyone.. and keeping integrity in the 9/11 truth movement is about open-mindedness.. and real research.. and communications.. this is why i appreciate 911blogger.. and believe my comments are on topic.. though covers a wider spectrum for false flag alerts than our conventional truth activists are used to.. but i have been on this campaign since before 9/11.. (against the new world disorder) and the evidence of toxins in the vaccine. and dangers of it being massively spread around the globe.. is something to take note on.. and actions to stop it; or to simply be prepared..

jonathan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
News fit to transmit in post Cassini flyby era
<>~<>~ www.FlybyNews.com ~<>~<>
<> for life's survival in the 21st Century <>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Keep this blog "on topic" ... Sibel Edmonds is the topic.

Sibel Edmonds and related media reports is the topic. Please do not banter other issues.

fbi off topic, false flag op? coalition-building

i guess your reply is about your perceived focus on what this news item is about..

my focus is to use and learn from sibel edmonds.. and unite with others to find some positive forces in the FBI and elsewhere to disclose what is true.. and just.. regarding corruption, false flag potential.. and where do we go from here..

the problem with truthers is sometimes the problem i experience with other groups who should form coalitions.. (like anti-war activists) and expand their focus.. to inter-related topics.. so we all don't stay so narrow and alone.. and the movement can grow..

jonathan

Have a question for Sibel Edmonds

Why did she refuse to be in interviewed by the Loose Change crew when they were making their documentary?

According to Dylan in a previous post - he attempted an interview with Edmonds but was turned down during the making of Loose Change 911: An American Coup.

- Exact Quote:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/20875#comment-214091

"Tried getting an interview with her ...

... and no dice. Tried getting an interview with Norman Mineta, but his traveling schedule didn't allow for it."

My question is - why is she not willing to give an interview with somebody as important as the Loose Change crew?

She of all people must know how important it is. I find it hard to believe time constraints are the only issue.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

She rarely...

Gives interviews. She wouldn't even grant me an interview.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Also,

it seems like she decided to stay away from 9/11 Truth that dealt with things outside her own area of expertise. I think she got fed up with how ugly the "conversations" get between truthers and debunkers. She recently allowed some CD discussion on one of her blog posts, even though she said she wasn't very informed about it or interested in it. I think it was respectful.

Anyway, she's got her own plate full and her own line to the public (not through Loose Change), so we don't have to worry.

She's a WhistleBlower

and she's "staying away from 911 Truth?"

It doesn't add up.

"...she's got her own plate full and her own line to the public (not through Loose Change)........."

That's a line I expect Amy Goodman to use.

Some of us have had enough of excuses. 2920 days of excuses.

That is 8 yrs folks. And we cannot accept or tolerate another 3000 days of excusitis or dead innocent victims like 911.
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

She's not staying away from 9/11 Truth...

She just signed the 9/11 Truth Statement. She hasn't made any "excuses" She has fought for a LONG TIME to expose her issue legally (you know... because that silly John Ashcroft slapped the states secrets privilege on her 2x, and that's a bitch to deal with legally). She has had to contend with her sister in Turkey being threatened, the Supreme Court throwing out her case, etc... Sorry that her not making herself available for Loose Change doesn't meet your standards. She's trying to remain as credible as possible without attaching herself to the multitude of "theories" that run throughout this movement, and quite honestly, I don't blame her.

Your last statement of how "we cannot accept or tolerate another 3000 days of excusitis or dead innocent victims like 911" sounds to me like you're placing the blame for the "next 9/11" on her... and that is totally uncalled for.

Why can't you be happy that there is now a "tell-all" article about Sibel Edmonds? Why do you have to knock this brave, brave woman?


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

"Your last statement of how

"Your last statement of how "we cannot accept or tolerate another 3000 days of excusitis or dead innocent victims like 911" sounds to me like you're placing the blame for the "next 9/11" on her... and that is totally uncalled for."

Don't twist my words Jon.

"Why can't you be happy that there is now a "tell-all" article about Sibel Edmonds? Why do you have to knock this brave, brave woman?"

Charlie Sheen - I would characterize as brave. Richard Gage, David Griffin etc. etc.

She signed a 2009 statement. That's very late considering its coming from a "whistle blower".

Someone who has "inside information on the inner-workings of the shadow government"

I have a phobia of "whistle blowers" who keep their distance from 911 Truth or USE it to discredit it.

This is one example of a "whistle blower" going very wrong.

David Shayler.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23720880-details/Meet+Del...

I have my suspicions.

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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

I didn't twist your words.

That's exactly what it sounded like to me. You would consider Charlie Sheen braver than Sibel Edmonds? Really? A man with millions upon millions of dollars who could have blanketed every newspaper in the country with 9/11 Truth, but chose not to (for whatever reason), as opposed to a little woman with next to nothing in comparison risking her life, her families lives, etc... Sibel hasn't distanced herself from "9/11 Truth." I have corresponded with her for years, and you gon't get more 9/11 Truthy than me. She doesn't discredit 9/11 Truth either. If she does ANYTHING, she makes the cause of 9/11 Truth more credible.

Comparing David Shayler to Sibel Edmonds, to me, is like comparing Jim Fetzer to Paul Thompson.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Charlie HAS gone public

Charlie HAS gone public where millions around the world have heard his questions.

Agreed he could do more. We all could. However, Sibel at least where she has had interviews, seems to shy away or stay silent on 911 Truth. That concerns me.

Sibel hasn't distanced herself from "9/11 Truth." I have corresponded with her for years

Your private correspondence and her "private" support for a new 911 Investigation is not going to cut it.

I am being hard because we cannot afford the luxury of delays. Or the circuitous route.

The fact of the matter is everybody lives are at risk. Charlie Sheen's life is no less at risk , neither is David Griffin is as is Sibel Edmonds. Or Richard Gage's.

Her reluctance to publicly address 911 Truth related issues DIRECTLY AND PUBLICLY via AT LEAST the 911 Alternative Media (i.e. Loose Change etc )is disquieting.

Sibel is just one person. One of many whistle-blowers who for some reason or other are still silent.

Somebody has to take the first step.

It is far more dangerous to be silent than to speak up in the long term. Considering the Republic is at stake and its going to a dog in a handbasket.

None Dare Call it Treason But we have to before its too late.

Justice Delayed IS Justice Denied.

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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

I see...

So you're definition of supporting "9/11 Truth" is to go around screaming that "9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!" "THERMITE!!!" "WTC7!!!" and if you don't say those things, you are not supporting "9/11 Truth."


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Screaming?

Nope you can speak civily like this man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKR2-A0KPU

We need people to move out of the periphery into the heart of the 911 Truth Message and a Clear Voice to Demand for a New Investigation.

Sibel Edmonds HAS the Ammunition to do that. So do a whole lot of FBI/CIA WhistleBlowers out there each waiting for someone ELSe to be the First.

I am being Provocative in the hope against hope others reading this from the Alphabet Agencies will understand - don't wait forever.

The Republic will not last that long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUrD-4xPOoQ

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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

I'm glad...

She's sticking to what she knows, and please... this thread is about Sibel Edmonds, not about Charlie Sheen, Richard Gage, or Dr. Griffin.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Sibel Edmonds talks about what she was witness to

and on numerous occasions she has spoken of what she's seen that was relevant to 9/11. However she's witness to a great deal of other corruption, and the 9/11-related things were a small part of what she saw. She has said she did not see evidence that it was an inside job; she has testified to failures to act on intelligence and attempts to cover things up- including FBI investigations being shut down. Now she's also a witness to the media cover up and distortion of things she's testified to, some of which she's been able to confirm from other sources.

Personally, i find that her sticking to what she knows, and primarily what she was a direct witness to, greatly increases her credibility and makes it harder for Establishment media and operatives to discredit her. I don't know why anyone interested in 9/11 Truth has a problem with that. She's doing much more to raise public awareness than other whistleblowers, and much, much more than people in the know who haven't blown the whistle yet.

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

You got that...

Right x infinity.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

"She has said she did not

"She has said she did not see evidence that it was an inside job"

Thanks loose nuke.

That is exactly what I needed to hear.

The folks here at ae911truth.org WILL DEFINITELY not agree.

881 architectural and engineering professionals at last count.

She is an "intelligence operative" and she cannot see its an inside job?

Hang on, she does not "know" Andrews AFB is 10 miles from the Pentagon?

You have to be kidding me. She sees no evidence but the rest of us do?

Government corruption in D.C , from Watergate to Iran-Contra is unfortunately the status quo in Washington.One man's impeachable offense is another man's pardon. Like in the case of Nixon and Ford. Sibel is exposing corruption - the STATUS QUO in D.C. (so what's the big news).

Payoffs to Congressmen and women. Dirty backroom deals. All of these peripheral issues - though commendable that she is talking about them - does not get to the HEART of the Matter.

My question -when will we get a Real 911 Truth Whistleblower?

Is that too much to ask for?

She's was willing to "spill the beans with the American Conservative" - why couldn't she talk to a respectable 911 Truth Avenue like the Loose Change crew or any of the myriad of respectable blogs out there.

And why attack me for asking the obvious hard questions?

The answer is obvious isn't it.

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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Show "Sooo..." by Jon Gold

I understand your point

but I don't understand why you keep 'blasting' explosive demolition research. If you can explain to me how a building like WTC 7 can fall symmetrically, progressively and completely through what should have been the path of most resistance at a rate indistinguishable from freefall, let me know. You're mixing stuff which is scientifically nonsense (missile, flyover) with stuff that is questionable but possible ('global hawk', flight 93 shot down) .. with stuff for which there is hard proof from both physical evidence AND witnesses. (explosive demolition, thermite)

You're hurting this research with your repeated attacks. Now you can come back at me and say....but I support Steven Jones...bla bla bla....well...not right now obviously.

This is not to say Sibel Edmunds should be addressing that. Not at all. I'd rather she didn't without clear conviction and if it really helped both her and us. But you? Why not you? (Without bringing up 'credibility' as if it doesn't apply to ae911truth)

BTW: note that ae911truth made a conscious decision to stay away from speculation and focus on the hard facts only, leaving foregone conclusions alone for when a real investigation arrives. This attitude has caused ae911truth to gain great momentum in the mainstream media. Gage et. al. have cleverly realized how not to give the hit job artists ammunition. Gage even directly referred to this motivation in one of those "Jonathan Kay" meetings.

No thanks...

This thread is about Sibel Edmonds, but I'm pretty much done with it.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

I'll have you know

that I'm very happy with Sibel Edmunds, and I find her revelations outrageous. Especially the part where Iraq is already bought, divided and sold before 9/11. Not that this is very new, but to hear it again, stated this casually, is gut wrenching.

I don't know if many people realize how limited the access of one person in a large bureaucracy is. I think she's giving us gold. I'll be watching Sibel with interest. Nobody can predict a 'Shayler', but I think Shayler was deliberately mentally destroyed by Mi5. I don't see that happening to Sibel.

Jon

I did not vote you down.

You have a point, maybe I am expecting too much from Miss Edmonds. Perhaps she is doing all the best she can under the circumstances.

Its frustrating though. We never seem to get a major break from within the ACTIVE DUTY intelligence community on some real hard concrete new evidence that can bring the perps down.

Plenty of stuff from retired and ex military or intel. But nothing from the active duty intelligence people.

Some war on terror.

This is not a poke at Sibel but to those out there from the Alphabet agencies reading this blog, have you forgotten your oath to the Republic and the Constitution?

Will there be other whistleblowers willing to take this further to reveal more incriminating HARD evidence so that even the House & Senate CANNOT obsfucate and delay proper investigation and prosecution?

Our descent to fascism cannot be delayed by hesitant patriotism. (This is not targeted at Sibel in case its misunderstood).

She has probably said and do as much as she possibly can under the circumstances. Others have to take it further.

Its time for more whisleblowers.

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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Sibel and John Farmer as Whistleblowers

Sibel should speak to what she knows. Just as Gage should speak to what he knows. That's where the credibility comes from. No question that she has released a bombshell with her statement that "the US maintained intimate relations with Osama bin Laden all the way up until 9/11." It's huge even he that's "all" she has for our purposes specifically.

And in a sense, we could consider John Farmer's statements to be blowing the whistle on the whole credibility of the 9/11 Commission, no? Like him or not-- I dont, but that's not the point. He is the guy who drafted the original 9/11 report. If he is saying essential that it's hogwash, then that's huge!

Sibel challenges the notion that OBL was our enemy before 9/11 with her charges. And Farmer, as Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission challenges the idea that the investigation was legitimate. It was not. It was corrupt, having been obstructed by the Pentagon, the CIA and the White House. It's a far bigger bombshell that Philip Shenon's book.

"Sibel should speak to what she knows."

I agree- as i've said, i think that she's ONLY talked about the crimes she had personal knowledge of adds to her credibility.

"Sibel challenges the notion that OBL was our enemy before 9/11 with her charges." - good point, but I would interpret her statement "the US maintained intimate relations with Osama bin Laden all the way up until 9/11." as challenging the notion that OBL wasn't a witting or unwitting proxy/asset of some corrupt part of the CIA and the interests they serve- all the way up until 9/11- and who's to say it stopped there? OBL may have been a shameless exploiter of his followers and a witting CIA asset- or he may have viewed the US as the enemy, and not fully understood the ultimate sources of some of his support. He may have even believed he had moles in the US govt, and not understood how he was being used and his network manipulated to foment a 'clash of civilizations'. A full investigation could reveal the truth, and what Sibel has said ought to prompt one- she says what she knows is in FBI documents and files.

Quick note about Farmer just to correct the record; in the Friedman interview, Farmer said, "I think the report is, uh, extremely accurate, and- and sets forth the facts of 9/11." He does NOT contradict the 9/11 Commission- the quote about the official story being "almost entirely untrue" is promotional hype; Farmer is referring to what the Commission was told by NORAD, and the Commission already noted their "inaccurate" testimony on pg 34, in a very subdued, muted way, with no emphasis on accountability. The DOD IG investigation found no wrong doing, and Farmer blames 'bureaucracy' and Clinton for 9/11.

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

Leave her be.

You have to undertand what she is going through. She probably feels that she can't contribute anymore than she already has. What is she going to say that she hasn't said already. We all know the story so it's out in the open and now I suppose she wants to move on. She is a whistle blower not an activist. I personally know other whistle blowers who keep their distance from 9-11 truth and it doen't mean they don't believe it wasn't an inside job. Whistle blowers have already done their job. They have made their contribution and now want to do the best they can to live a normal of a life as possible because their own lives have typically been turned upside down for so long. Whistle blowers blow the whistle and activists listen and take it the next level. Their is no reason for her to do anymore than she already has.

The other reason I suppose she doesn't like to give interviews is because the more she talks the more likely the chance of her saying something that can land her prison for violating the National Security Act. So she has to be careful.

Sibel Edmonds Kicks ASS and the Establishment is AFRAID

Barring that the entire thing- her being fired, gagged twice, the occasional media coverage, her explosive allegations that have come out in bits and pieces, the names she's named- is simply some grand orchestrated show, Sibel Edmonds has been extremely active for truth and justice, in addition to blowing the whistle- speaking, writing letters, contacting policy and law makers and media, giving interviews, organizing the NSWBC, testifying to Congress 3 times, testifying in her recent deposition. In Kill the Messenger, she said something like, 'With every door that is shut in my face, i grow stronger'

Her allegations are slanderous and libelous if untrue, but the people she's accused have not sued, and have not exactly denied them, either- Hastert and Grossman gave weasely responses when contacted by Vanity Fair and Sunday Times, respectively.

She has been very careful about what she says and in what setting- she has lawyers and consults with them. She has managed to say a great deal despite the gags, and what she's said has helped independent journalists like Luke Ryland and Larisa Alexandrovna put additional pieces together.

May 14, 2005: Gagged but not dead - by Sibel Edmonds
http://justacitizen.com/articles_documents/May14-05-Gagged%20but%20not%2...

If you want to support whistleblowers, Edmonds has been working with this org:
http://www.whistleblowers.org/index.php

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

First hand knowledge

She has direct first-hand knowledge about criminal activity that went on behind the scenes regarding 9/11, something none of us on this, or any thread have, and she is carefully bringing it all to light. Given what she knows, she must also know what kind of danger she and her loved ones are in by divulging it. I'm not certain, but I would guess that not all of the Jersey Girls would do an interview for Loose Change if asked, either. Are you slamming them, too?

As Robin Hordon said on a related thread, (paraphrased) Don't tell Sibel what to do with HER information and don't tell Willie what songs to play.

"She has direct first-hand

"She has direct first-hand knowledge about criminal activity that went on behind the scenes regarding 9/11, something none of us on this, or any thread have, and she is carefully bringing it all to light. "

Can you provide proof that she is bringing 911 Truth to light as you claim? I am talking specifically about the events of September 11.

"I'm not certain, but I would guess that not all of the Jersey Girls would do an interview for Loose Change if asked, either. Are you slamming them, too?"

Where in any of my statements did I "slam" the Jersey girls?

Why are you twisting my words?

"Don't tell Sibel what to do with HER information and don't tell Willie what songs to play."

Critical Thinking requires critical questions.

We are not going anywhere if we keep cheerleading the same process that is getting us literally nowhere.

BTW, "Information" relating to the TREASON that led to 911 is NOT the EXCLUSIVE PROPERTY of Sibel Edmonds.

At least Willie has gone public asking common sense questions. And he "doesn't" have "inside knowledge"

If she has something SPECIFIC about 911,the LOOSE CHANGE CREW would have been the BEST people to talk to about it.

Why her silence?

When it comes to Blowing the Whistle, there is NOTHING more Significant than 911 Truth.

That is my Singular Point and the whole crux of my argument.

If she wants Whistle-Blower credentials, then PLEASE BLOW THE WHISTLE ON 911 TRUTH

Loud and Clear.

Somebody has the Operational Plans out there. They have the details. They have HARD EVIDENCE.

If Sibel has an iota of accurate information, she would do the Republic and the World a Great Deed by pointing the Right People (like the LC crew) in the right direction.

And there are people here who have a problem with that?

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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

She has...

And has stuck to what she knows about "9/11 Truth" like a credible whistleblower should do.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

a true partiot

Are you actually mocking the acts of this courageous whistleblower as being not good enough for your standards?

She is putting a hell of a lot on the line coming forward with such accusations against the government. She has been TRYING to be a whistleblower for 7 years. By HER standards, your jerrymongering would be quite lame. She openly attached her name to this from the get go, while you respectfully remain "constitutional911".

Bravo.

Nobody is mocking anyone.

Unless we are willing to ask hard questions and expect more credible assertions and evidence, the whole point of whistleblowing will miss its objectives at arriving at 911 Truth.

Intelligence Exposes usually have a double agenda. That is what happened with Shayler.

Its not only with the British.

Philip Giraldi is a former Central Intelligence Agent. This interview looks like its managed or massaged for political purposes.

Its happened before. There is not real explicit evidence linking government complicity or "Inside Job" elements to 911 in this interview.

We have had Government Corruptions Exposes before. Iran Contra, the Valerie Plame affair etc etc.
The crooked dealings of Washington D.C. is common news and almost accepted to the general American Public.

Treason at the level of 911 is NOT. That is my point. That is the KEY.

Sibel's whistleblowing so far is like shooting a BB gun at the moving freight train of the military industrial complex. Unless it exposes the treason of 911, its going nowhere.

If they can't gag her, they will manage her. With an "ex" agent to manage the news along the way. This is going to be hard for her cheerleaders to take and I knew from the outset I am going to be attacked in ridiculous ways. Nevertheless the fact remains, standard counter-intelligence will neutralize or discredit the threat. In the case of David Shayler, they discredited him. Whistle Blowers of the future have to hit hard and hit fast and choose the media that is NOT CONTROLLED OR Managed by "EX" intelligence operatives. The LC crew would have been a fantastic avenue to get GOOD SOLID information out to the masses.

The American Conservative is not my idea of solid alternative media.

Left or Right - The Military Industrial Complex marches on. That's what we are fighting. Not each other.

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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

spookyC

Yeeehaw! Break out the passion, C. Your comments are just not spirited enough.

Yes, you are discrediting her and this story by suggesting that she and Giraldi are misinfo agents.

Calm down and read the article at least. You might find a lot to be proud of. Or maybe you're an agent... Oooooh, that would be spooky.

"This interview looks like its managed or massaged for political

Constitutional911- "This interview looks like its managed or massaged for political purposes."

Of course this is possible; but what makes you say it "looks" that way- you provided NO evidence of this- however, you've made clear- in numerous comments in this thread- that your 'opinion' is there's something 'wrong' with Sibel Edmonds cuz she hasn't talked about controlled demolition and AE911Truth.org- something she has no experience in- so why would she?

And she wasn't an "intelligence operative"; she was a translator for the FBI for 6 months, until she got fired for pushing her superiors to investigate espionage in her dept.

What is up with the analogy to Shayler? Shayler did not witness anything related to 9/11; he's just a celebrity (or was a 'no planer' plant from the beginning) cuz he blew the whistle on the MI5 (allegedly)

Edmonds is talking about crimes she witnessed that amount to treason, which the Feds have not investigated or prosecuted, and which the Establishment media have been silent on or spun; members of Congress and DOD/DOS officials involved in espionage, blackmail, bribery, trading political favors, laundering money, trafficking in drugs, arms and nuclear secrets and weapons technology. Edmonds also says there were pre-9/11 discussions with Turkish officials on invading and dividing up Iraq, and that the CIA was aiding and abetting 'bin Ladens' and Mujahideen (now called Al Qaeda) right up to 9/11.

What's wrong with that coming out in a 'mainstream' political magazine- FINALLY??? Should these things NOT be investigated and covered by the MSM? Do you think if there was a legit investigation, it's not going to blow open the 9/11 cover up? This was a relatively brief interview, and still only went into brief, general descriptions- she testified for 3.5 HOURS to the 9/11 Commission and got an endnote- Sarshar testified for 2.5 hrs and got no mention at all. The MFR of the Edmonds interview is almost entirely blanked out, begging the question of what she told them- considering what she's said publicly, even while under TWO State Secrets gag orders imposed by Ashcroft
http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-00236.pdf

I personally found the information in this interview disturbing and think it should be followed up on- if she's a liar or a shill, let it be exposed. If you can produce any actual evidence of that, do it. Your repeated attacks on Sibel Edmonds and this coverage are difficult to understand- if your goal is disclosure regarding 9/11- imho.

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

The ENTIRE intelligence apparatus is involved

in Drug smuggling.

There were bin Ladens, with the help of Pakistanis or Saudis, under our management. Marc Grossman was leading it, 100 percent, bringing people from East Turkestan into Kyrgyzstan, from Kyrgyzstan to Azerbaijan, from Azerbaijan some of them were being channeled to Chechnya, some of them were being channeled to Bosnia. From Turkey, they were putting all these bin Ladens on NATO planes. People and weapons went one way, drugs came back.

GIRALDI: Was the U.S. government aware of this circular deal?

EDMONDS: 100 percent. A lot of the drugs were going to Belgium with NATO planes. After that, they went to the UK, and a lot came to the U.S. via military planes to distribution centers in Chicago and Paterson, New Jersey. Turkish diplomats who would never be searched were coming with suitcases of heroin.

GIRALDI: And, of course, none of this has been investigated. What do you think the chances are that the Obama administration will try to end this criminal activity?

Its not just Turkish diplomats. I hope you understand what I mean. There is a whole lot of Diplomatic Drugs moving around.

This is a question of trust. Not of Sibel Edmonds who probably has been pressured on what she can say ,to whom and how much. Hence her apparent reluctance to go totally public on 911. (Maybe my expectations are just too high?)

Its a question of whether I trust the American Conservative to carry the truth. The Whole Truth.

The American Conservative has had Paul Craig Roberts as a contributing writer on occasion. To the best of my knowledge his very strong 911 Truth articles have never been published there either.

All I'm saying is that I hope Sibel will one day decide to use a good reliable 911 Alternative Media source to make a clear cut stand for 911 Truth, if she can, under her complex circumstances.

The article itself is pretty good. But if we are going to break the barrier of ignorance and that dam of
deception we need to aim a whole lot higher and sharper.

Pretty good does not cut it. Hence my reservations and critique.

Having said that, I think you bring out a lot of good points, Sibel Edmonds is an asset to the Truth Movement as a whole however we need a whole lot more before we bring this superstructure G. O. D. - Guns Oil & Drugs down.

My expectations of her are probably too high and unrealistic, I will give you that. I do hope there are and will be more whistleblowers out there who can aim for the heart of this monster - The Military Industrial Complex- we are fighting and help us take it down.

If we want to preserve the planet - we have no choice.

Have a good evening.
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

"go totally public on 911"

What part of she can and SHOULD only talk about what she knows because that makes her MORE credible don't you understand? Do you think everyone in this movement agrees with everything being promoted by people? Part of the reason people have a hard time associating with us is BECAUSE of ALL of the "theories" being put forward. People as brave as Sibel Edmonds are brave REGARDLESS of whether or not they meet the standards of "constitutional911." What I have found is that there is ALWAYS someone willing to come and "bash" Sibel Edmonds. So this is nothing new.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

What this exchange shows us.

Going further on what Jon is saying here, this whole mess of internal grumbling really shows how the entire truth movement needs to get its shit together. Coordination and cooperation right now is badly needed.

Though this is a topic for another blog here (and really needs attention), it can be seen as being attached with Sibel in the sense of how its "us"(Sibel, Jon, Gage, constitutional911, et al) against "them" (is elaboration necessary?). Sadly, "we" are still a motley crew with little or no centralized agreement that still strains in most realms for credibility, while "they" have big budgets and a major, organized, rational (though ethically warped) gameplane and disciplined hierarchy. Whether you agree with ae911's content or not, they are one of the best examples of professionalism and cooperation in 911 thus far, and their example of internal control is what needs to be followed. At this point, we should be evolving past flippant mega-phones in shopping malls (effective only to a point) and begin consolidating the approach, which would included specialized lines of attack (ie Edmonds and her spy knowledge, Gage and his structural experience, Jon and his activism coordination). Our man-hours would be much more effective if we all had an agreed upon focus.

"My expectations of her are probably too high and unrealistic,"

Thank you for your second thoughts. I don't trust anyone, and it's not necessary. If what Sibel Edmonds is saying is true it's treason and a Constitutional crisis. A full investigation would uncover 9/11 and all the other crimes committed by Establishment 'elites'.

If she's a fraud, a 'double-agent' or being manipulated, that needs to come out- but considering the gravity of her charges, and that they're slanderous and libelous if false, something needs to be done- that the media isn't covering her story, debunking or confirming it, is a disgrace.

She's already gone all the way to the top of the FBI, the DOJ IG, Congress and the 9/11 Commission- none of them said she was lying or even mistaken, though people at the FBI and elsewhere have tried to dissuade her thru threats, intimidation and gag orders, lending credence to her story- Leahy, Grassley, Fine called her 'credible' and said her info was confirmed by others and their own investigation.

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

I don't think she is a fraud.

She is genuine. But perhaps and I mean perhaps "managed".

There are people out there who MUST have the operational details out there for 911. From Cheney's office down.

She is the founder for a National Whistleblowers organization.

She or probably someone she is linked with or knows has access to this information.Somebody needs to blow the 911 whistle real loud and clear so that incontrovertible witnesses and information will come forth and the dam will break.

Yes. She has done some great work. But I hate to say it -its not enough. Lots of people I know already know that the Bin Ladins were real close to the US Alphabet Agencies up to 911. Some even know that they have been close even AFTER 911.

Nothing new or earth shattering.

What I am hoping for is someone or a group of whistleblowers revealing the DETAILED OPERATIONAL PLANS of what transpired on that day. Names of people involved. Operational Plans and Documents. Daniel Ellsberg's Pentagon documents if you like.(Its there folks. - just like Northwoods from the 60's) From the Office of the former Vice-President, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center on 911 itself, to Offutt AFB, to those White Planes over DC etc. etc. A great deal of incriminating evidence.

Inside Information, from Inside Sources of an Inside Job.

There is a document trail, a money trail and a incriminating trail of chain of command within the SHADOW GOVT AND MERC MILITARY that carried it out.

So far we have only scraps of "official info". We need much more. Something earthshattering.

A DeepThroat if you like. Or several even better. This is an important key.

There are people reading these blogs who HAVE this information. You have kept it as insurance.Pls put Country and Constitution ahead of career.

Because a career in Fascism isn't worth it.

That's the whole point of my argument.

This country is going to self-destruct if we don't get some serious help within the ACTIVE military and intelligence community on 911 Truth.

And we cannot afford to wait another 8 yrs.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Are you kidding me?

Constitution911...

The 9/11TM is chock full of cointelpros...and Zionists...and desperate "military types" acting cool...

Sibel Edmonds knows EXACTLY what she needs to do...how to do it...and with whom to do it with!!!

I trust that she feels that jumping on random 9/11TM sites and organizations most likely will entrap her message...

Look into CI...Civil Informationing...or... www.robinhordon.tk [a site some Canadian friends cobbled together for me]...and take a look at my white paper comparing 60s style activism to our modern day efforts...LEAD-by the 9/11TM. HELLO!!!

BTW...Cindy Sheehan is the real deal...and she knows alot about 9/11...and she is appropriately WARY of her connections within the 9/11TM...as well as the organized [QUOTES]...leaders of existing "peace movements".

Which by now...are actually "War Enabling Groups"...pathetic groups of willingly ignorant people or those who suffer from cognitive dissonance...or...BOTH.

That the peace organizations in the USof A are now left gatekeepers are both...

...absolutely amazing to me...

...and the source of promotions within the Pentagon's counter intelligence programs...

Cindy has climbed to the top of the peace movement hill and found...either compromized leadership...or..COINTELPRO...or both...and she opted OUT!

YEAY CINDY!!!

So, please get a grip here...we are playing with the big boys...the REALLY, REALLY big boys...the BIGGEST BOYS on earth!

Love, Peace and Progress...

Robin Hordon
Kingston, WA

Name...

A Zionist in the 9/11 Truth Movement, and don't ignore me like you always do.

Edit: It is my opinion that Robin Hordon should not be allowed to post on 911Blogger.com if he is not willing to back up his statements, or respond to those who criticize what he is saying.

Sorry. It must be my "Zionist (jewish)" knack for censorship kicking in.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Robin

I had a good look at your site www.robinhordon.tk. Its pretty good and you have some good ideas.

YOu have a point, perhaps Sibel is concerned about her message being hijacked for nefarious purposes. This same reservation may be held by other potential witnesses / whistleblowers.

Any suggestions on what avenues are then available.

CI informs the mass public.

Whistleblowers can provide key evidence than can be brought to Congress and the court of law.

So we need avenues for the whistleblowers. My thinking was that the Loose Change crew are probably one of the best single avenues that I know of that can help whistle blowers get their critical information out to the masses.

"BTW...Cindy Sheehan is the real deal...and she knows alot about 9/11...and she is appropriately WARY of her connections within the 9/11TM...as well as the organized [QUOTES]...leaders of existing "peace movements".

You are also right - Cindy Sheehan has been burned by the co-intel ops of the "Peace Movement up to 2006/2007 until she wised up.

I am disappointed in Jon Gold's attempt to censor or threaten you with censorship by demanding a response. Did not realize he is capable of such behavior.

Some of us have to change our behavior and realize that others will not always agree with us and RESPECT differing Opinions and not threaten a boycott or censorship based on differing opinions.

One may not agree with the other. But that does not give one the right to threaten censorhip. No one is all-knowing and right all the time anyway.

Jon is way out of line and on behalf of the rest of us who believe in free and fair exchange of ideas I apologize. Pls do contribute your ideas and suggestions. Civil Informationing is a poweful tool and very Ghandesian like. Something that will work in the halls of Congress as well as in front of the White House.

We need a myriad of opinions, ideas and thoughts in order to make this work. A dictatorship of ideas and methods will only serve to undermine our hopes of preserving a viable Republic and democratic principles.

I hope no one attempts to get you censored again just because they may disagree with you.

We cannot afford to allow the dictatorship of the Neo-Cons / Neo-Libs (PNAC) to be replaced by another dictatorship that prevents others with differing or dissenting views from expressing themselves.

If we fight for the Bill of Rights, the Consitution, the 911 TRUTH Movement,then let us NEVER forget the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Robin you have been civil in much of your discourse. I myself may not agree with you all the time and likewise I don't expect you or any others to agree with me all the time , but I will fight for your right to speak for your beliefs.

If we cannot preserve our freedom of our expression and exchange of ideas without undue threats of censorship, then what indeed are we fighting for?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Jon is not way out of line...

Did you know that Robin Hordon harassed me with emails making accusations that because I am a Zionist, (which I'm not, but because I'm Jewish, and Robin hates Jews, I am therefore a Zionist) 911Blogger.com censors information pertaining to Israel?

Ask Robin sometime what a "Massachusetts Avenue Jew" is, or better yet, ask him about how "911blogger has been outed as a gatekeeper for Israel."

Then maybe you'll ask Robin sometime why he takes part in racist posts like this.

Why don't you learn what you're talking about before you open your mouth.

Would a Zionist introduce the topic of Israel's possible involvement in the 9/11 attacks to the most popular 9/11 Truth site in the world?

Would a Zionist post more about Israel than most people in this movement, including those who consider themselves to be "Anti-Zionist?"

Would a Zionist post about people like Jack Abramoff, Elliott Abrams, Michael Chertoff, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Larry Silverstein, Paul Wolfowitz, and Dov Zakheim in my "Who Is? Archives?"

Would a Zionist promote more than anyone on the planet (that is VERY outdated) 9/11 Whistleblower Sibel Edmonds who calls out the country of Israel?

Would a Zionist post about the Larry Franklin scandal over, and over, and over, and over, and over again?

Would a Zionist adamantly oppose the recent Lebanon War, and Gaza Wars?

Would a Zionist include Israel in Facts #1, #21, and #50 (the who benefitted fact) in an article entitled, "The Facts Speak For Themselves?"

Would a Zionist make a bunch of movies that asks the question of Israeli involvement in the 9/11 attacks?

Would a Zionist get REALLY pissed off after reading this article?

Would a Zionist write an article denouncing attacks against Ray McGovern because he is critical of the U.S.'s favoritism (to put it nicely) towards Israel, and try to save the image of the 9/11 Truth Movement at the same time?

Would a Zionist contact the only person who could have been the "Fire Department Commander" Larry Silverstein was referring to?

A better question is, would a racist and a bigot accuse someone of being a Zionist simply because he is Jewish, and better yet, should the 9/11 Truth Movement embrace, and promote people that are like that?

Yes, and

NO.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Hang on. I never called you a Zionist

This post http://911notes.blogspot.com/2009/05/httpwww.html however as you highlighted does seem quite racist.

You have to understand I am not privy to nor want to be privy to any private e-mail correspondence between yourself and Hordon. You guys seem to have a history of disagreements which is spilling over here.

A history which only now I am becoming aware of.

I could have been wrong about the issue. Maybe you were not out line - however none of his posts in this specific thread labeled you as a Zionists or racist directly.

Israel / "Zionism" so called is not the only player in the Global Military Industrial Complex. The Saudi Royal family controls between 8% - 11% if the American Economy. I see the Bush clan KISSING and HOLDING HANDS with the Royal Saudis. They have to be a whole lot closer to them than the Israelis.

We can be assured the royal families of a number of the Arab / Muslims nations are involved financially in this fake war on terror. That would explain Haliburton's move to Dubai etc etc.

That does not mean we should blame all Arabs for 911. Its flawed reasoning.

Blaming the Jews is an old trick to prevent us from seeing the big picture. Criminals come in all sizes, religions , creeds and colors and genders. There are probably far more Gentiles involved in 911 than Jews in the first place.

Instead of blaming races lets name Individuals AND Organizations involved in False Flag Terror.

After all that's what we are hoping Sibel Edmonds and other future whistle blowers of the future will help us do.

Name Names not Races. There's a big difference.

If Robin and others believe singling out and blaming an entire race of people for the crimes of 911, then they are very very wrong and I hope we can help open their eyes and hearts to see the difference.

Go in peace Jon. I mean no harm.

And thanks for your efforts. We will have our agreements and disagreements and you can rest assured that I would be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

Shalom.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

damn...

not gonna read this until I get my hands on the actual magazine. I went to 2 different Barnes & Noble and they didn't carry The American Conservative, though they said some of their stores do. But I did find the new Loose Change and snatched it up pronto! Comes with a neat-o little booklet containing Sunjata's "Intellectual Dishonesty" piece.

I made sure to tell the kind women who looked up the magazine for me all about Sibel. I made them write down her name and promise me they would Google her when they got home tonight. Off to Borders now...

Mindblowing

I've been spreading it around online, also sent this to the 'mainstream' media:

editor@truthout.org, editor@commondreams.org, editor@nytimes.com, editor@rawstory.com, editor@tompaine.com, editor@usatoday.com, editorial@nypress.com, editorial@observer.com, editpage@seattlepi.com, Editor@vheadline.com, editor@rgemonitor.com, publisher@nytimes.com, publiceye@cbs.com, letters@latimes.com, letters@newsday.com, letters@newsweek.com, letters@nytimes.com, letters@time.com, letters@usnews.com, letters@washpost.com, letters@independent.co.uk, letters@sun-sentinel.com, info@kpfa.org, info@pogo.org, info@ap.org

Who’s Afraid of Sibel Edmonds? The gagged whistleblower goes on the record. http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/nov/01/00006/

Will the New York Times and the rest of the 'mainstream' media continue to abdicate their responsibility to thoroughly investigate the corruption alleged under oath by Sibel Edmonds- or will they continue to be complicit in the cover up of treason and high crimes by members of Congress and top DOD and DOS officials?

New York Times Editor and Publisher; is this allegation true:

EDMONDS: Yes. Sometimes he would give money to the people who were working with him, identified in phone calls on a first-name basis, whether it’s a John or a Joe. He also took care of some other people, including his contact at the New York Times. Grossman would brag, “We just fax to our people at the New York Times. They print it under their names.”

As former CIA officer Philip Giraldi noted in the recent cover story interview with Sibel Edmonds published in the American Conservative,

"A Department of Justice inspector general’s report called Edmonds’s allegations “credible,” “serious,” and “warrant[ing] a thorough and careful review by the FBI.” Ranking Senate Judiciary Committee members Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) have backed her publicly. “60 Minutes” launched an investigation of her claims and found them believable. No one has ever disproved any of Edmonds’s revelations, which she says can be verified by FBI investigative files."

"John Ashcroft’s Justice Department confirmed Edmonds’s veracity in a backhanded way by twice invoking the dubious State Secrets Privilege so she could not tell what she knows. The ACLU has called her “the most gagged person in the history of the United States of America.”"

Edmonds alleges members of Congress, top Defense and State Dept officials, and RAND employees have colluded with Turkish, Israeli, Pakistani and Saudi agents. Crimes, many of which amount to treason, include espionage, blackmail, bribery, trading political favors, laundering money, trafficking in drugs, arms and nuclear secrets and weapons technology. Edmonds also says there were pre-9/11 discussions with Turkish officials on invading and dividing up Iraq, and that the CIA was aiding and abetting 'bin Ladens' and Mujahideen (now called Al Qaeda) right up to 9/11.

Erik Larson

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

Excellent dissemination!! Fantastic! Me too!..spread the word.

"It is you who are the torch-bearers with respect to that truth.... ...Steel your spines. Inspire your children. Then when the moment is right, rise again...." W PEPPER

That's the way!

The MSM should be embarrased by a lot of messages from people, asking them why they are not covering it.

POWERFUL STORY THAT SHOULD BE ALL OVER OUR MEDIA

nausea7543
When the student is ready the teacher will come.

IF THIS STORY DOESN'T HIT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA IN ALL ITS FORMS WITH CONTINUOUS COVERAGE RESULTING IN PROPER INVESTIGATIONS WITH SUBPOENA POWER IT SHOULD STAND AS ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT AND OUR MAINSTREAM MEDIA IS NOT WORKING FOR ITS OWN PEOPLE AND THE SOLUTION IS "WE THE PEOPLE" SHOULD REPLACE THEM.

Take Care Matt

Torture

and the lack of prosecution thereof already stands as absolute proof we don't live in a free society. Why? Because unlike JFK, it's publicly admitted and STILL nothing happens. I don't know why people keep seeking new lows to reach before we admit to ourselves that we've ALREADY gone off the deep end. Choose your arbitrary breaking point.

What needs to happen? Obama, Bush and Clinton naked on the White House lawn screaming "We are the alpha and omega!! New World Order! New World Order!!" ?

Honestly I tried hard but I can't think of anything more insane than torturing children with the aid of trained psychologists in a lawless prison on Cuban territory. (PUBLICLY ADMITTED!) Or anywhere else, for that matter. Or signing away the Constitution. Or having the SCOTUS make you dictator.

Thanks

Thanks, Jon for posting this here. I've been having weird issues w/ FB lately but I was able to print this out and take it with me in my journeys today.

Graci to Sibel for laying out how the buying and selling of intelligence ties into the blackmailing of senators and congressmen, and how it connects to criminal rings.

Reading about how various countries were negotiating the plunder of Iraq months before the planes hit the towers made me just sad though.

________________________
In Their Own Words
The Truth and Lies of 9/11

Patriot

This article has incredible information. I would think this means big promotions for people like Grossman, Feith, and Perle.

Who's afraid of speculation? A Good Theory perhaps?

What is the purpose of Sibel Edmonds in relation to the big picture of the 9/11 event? Wouldn't any 'credible' witness disappear? Would any 'credible' witness get 60 minutes airtime, movies, magazine covers, and the like? (A bit reminiscent of the fame Valerie Plame received from convention celebritization and the like, the spy that apparently was tracking A. Q. Khan (of which I personally heard Plame confirm this in a public convention center). Sibel also did wiretaps on the same group. This group that both Sibel and Plame worked on in some way, does point in a direction of blame. (There's also a Plame and Edmonds Brewster Jennings connection, but just coincidences I'm sure.) Is it now the country Turkey (as in the ATC) that her allegations point to? Perhaps similar to Saudi Arabia's role in 9/11, which I'm guessing as less than those who has access to install thermite, whoever that may be. But back to Sibel, that's right, she's the most gaged person in history, 2 times over as stated by some, certainly a lofty title, that's certainly adds to the 'credibility'. Otherwise why would they gag her? So the story seems she can't be disappeared, so she's gaged, guess that makes sense. Yet now she is risking even more by the deposition not too long ago and risk being jailed, apparently the Obama DOJ is somehow more tolerant must be the calculation in exercising gag orders in an apparent fluid application of law based on which admin is on. Let's step back for a minute, the summary of what Sibel is saying is that there is nuclear trafficking, wouldn't this be so telling to inform anyone? Wouldn't other intelligence professionals be just as concerned with such grave consequences? Though that's right the corruption, in the State Department, Pentagon, FBI, Congress, and the list goes on and on, or could this story be a plant, and possibly without Sibel's knowledge)?

Thinking she sounds so credible, the facts seem spot on, what confirms these allegations, Giraldi, 60 minutes, AmCon? Why? Outing corruption and patriotic duty and all that, right? Or as I said earlier to point a finger at Turkey somehow (maybe not to take any action, but to put them on notice that a narrative can be created to involve them if they don't go along with the narrative), same as with Saudi Arabia, and other wealthy nations that could pose as a potential threat, conjecture of course. She also reinforces the OBL narrative, to lean the narrative back to 'incompetence', albeit soured with corruption. Now after reading this previous paragraph, you may be thinking that I am injecting doubt into Sibel Edmonds story? Well if I don't take one person's narrative at face value, no matter their 'perceived' credibility, with mass publicity (sure reluctant, but still publicity), with ties to our military/intelligence complexes given their history, the act of 9/11, accountability and transparency within those organizations. You bet I am. Factored in the countless hitpieces that have come, will come, and continued guilt by association and divide by conquering topics like flight 77. Again, why? Or, it just must be one patriotic individual who is above being paid off as others have been in sensitive issues surrounding 9/11 against the complexes as if the new admin DOJ will be any different, given that went on Letterman yesterday and repeated the 9/11 justification for war, glosses over Iraq as spreading democracy (even though it was WMD lies), and doubles down on continuing the Afghan war against terrorists, but don't worry, the domestic policy of health care is a pacifier to the foreign war policy.

While not foolproof (what is), my own pondering is that those activities in the 'daily patriot movement' who shun (flack over the target) things like NYC CAN seem that these types of efforts are the examples of things that genuinely could expose the 9/11 orchestration. Instead of efforts that attempt to deflect blame to other countries such as, Turkey, Saudi, Israel and the purpose to deflect to these countries and the like.

Before someone says it, yes, I know this is conjecture, speculation, and some could say a guilt by association on Sibel, and the like. There is little concrete evidence other than looking at how the cover up has proceeded over the years, who/what gets publicity, who/what doesn't, and credibility hinging events as opposed to what makes a good theory - in other words, does Sibel meet the good theory definition or just pointing blame and reinforcing the OBL narrative?

As John has said in the past, I am also sick of this, and I think that's the purpose of disinformation/misinformation, to wear down efforts to expose the truth. Yet efforts like Pepper in MLK seem to serve as a model to continue for the truth.

Any thoughtful insights would be appreciated. Thanks.

If OBL...

Was working for elements within the U.S. Government up until 2001, then how does Sibel Edmonds' allegations reinforce "the OBL narrative?" The "OBL narrative" being that he, or elements within his "organization" decided that they would attack the United States, and murder 2,973+ people because he didn't like American foreign policy in the Middle East. Because he hated us for our Freedoms. Because he didn't like how we support Israel. Because he didn't like what we did in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War. That any "relationship" we had with him during the Afghanistan/Russia War ended after the war.

That's the "OBL narrative."

If he was working for elements within the U.S. Government up until the day of 9/11, then that pretty much destroys the "OBL narrative" doesn't it? Yea, I would say it does. And as I've said before, like B follows A if OBL was working for elements within the U.S. Government up until the day of 9/11, the next question is was OBL or elements within HIS "organization" used for the 9/11 attacks BY elements within the U.S. Government (hello patsies)?

We'll just forget about the fact that Sibel had to be dragged in front of the 9/11 Commission by the families because they wouldn't respond to her. We'll just forget about the fact that Sibel completely discredits the entire 9/11 Commission. We'll just forget about the fact that Sibel in all probability unlocks the door to the system that brought us 9/11. We'll just forget about the fact that Sibel has made us aware of OTHER 9/11 whistleblowers that were "censored or ignored" by the 9/11 Commission. AGAIN completely discrediting the entire 9/11 Commission.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Let's look at it a little more...

If the system that was in place during the Afghanistan/Russia war was still in place up to 9/11, then suddenly Michael Springmann's allegations regarding Visas, and the consulate in Jeddah become very interesting don't they? I think they do moreso than they already were.

If the system that was in place during the Afghanistan/Russia war was still in place up to 9/11, then suddenly the Pakistani ISI funding the alleged hijackers becomes very interesting doesn't it? I think it does moreso than it already was.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

You raise good points, and

You raise good points, and there is certainly the evidence pointing to the possibility if not probability that proxies/paties may have been the case.

What I'm saying is that the difference between using a proxy hired patsy group of OBL to carry out 9/11 as Sibel is stating and the 9/11 commission report (or antiwar's version of blowback from H.W. Bush's Saudi Arabia bombing or blowback from US middle east policy in general) is plausible deniability. In both cases OBL and his gang are carrying out the act, but in one as hired guns, the other as the government narrative (as in PDB August 6th, 2001 Bin Laden determined to strike).

Sure, the implementation details are drastically different, from treason to simply incompetence, but the end result is the same on 911. Just as CNN's able danger expose leads to the OBL gang, followed by the media repeating the government tale. Whichever version the evidence points to and the public are duped into still eclipse the the more likely military/FAA response (more like military) and wargames as smokescreens including a shootdown and thermite install. Whether Sibel's credibility (and other related whistleblowers) to counter the plausible deniability remains to be seen as the key to unlocking the door to 9/11 of what seems to put squarely on the shoulders of decision makers within and around the military operation of 9/11.

Mainly, it does appear strange that a Bush's Department of Justice inspector general’s report called Edmonds’s allegations “credible,” “serious,” and on 60 minutes the same allegations were also confirmed as credible. You would think that if Sibel's allegations did indeed unlock the door to 9/11 that every attempt would be made to discredit her or make a Barry Jennings or an anthrax Bruce Ivins of her.

Douglas Feith...

And Brent Scowcroft both referred to her as a "conspiracy theorist" if I remember correctly when confronted about her. Sibel is well known whereas Barry Jennings, and Bruce Ivins were not. If something suddenly happened to her, I know I would get in to my car, drive down to Washington D.C. and start a 9/11 Truth encampment right then and there.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

oops

deleted - wrong spot

the interview itself

Interesting that there's no mention of Grossman/Brewster Jennings Did she receive one of those Big-Brother-Uncle letters after the sworn testimony, which -- as I recall -- did mention the n-proliferation treason outing that predated Plame.

The Peak Oil list "Running on Empty Oz" is afraid, that's who

Recenlty the Australian Yahoo Mailing list "Running On Empty Oz" declared itelf a 9/11 Conspiracy Free Zone in response to my efforts to raise 9/11. Here is its pronouncement:

roeoz is also a 9/11 conspiracy free zone. The matter was dealt with years ago, the US Government took advantage of the incident, quite likely even allowed it to happen in order to launch the wars it was already planning, so that was a conspiracy in a sense, but the conspiracy that they planned the incident or had the buildings demolished by controlled explosions is too far-fetched, unprovable over 8 years and a change of government, and tedious. ....

In fact they are proclaiming that LIHOP is the official roeoz line without having explained the reasons, but, as they bar any discusion whatsoever, it may as well be the Official 9/11 Conspiracy Theory.

The list moderators behave like classic 'left' gatekeepers. They pretend to be the most militant and morally indignant amongst radical anti-imperialists, but stamp out any whiff of a suggestion that the US Goverenment intelligence agencies could be behind 9/11.

Recently Sibel Edmonds article was posted by a list moderator with the title "Who's Afraid Of Sibel Edmonds?"

They probably didn't realise that Edmonds was a 9/11 Truther.

I posted the response:

This is from that article:

GIRALDI: You also have information on al-Qaeda, specifically al-Qaeda in Central Asia and Bosnia. You were privy to conversations that suggested the CIA was supporting al-Qaeda in central Asia and the Balkans, training people to get money, get weapons, and this contact continued until 9/11…

EDMONDS: I don’t know if it was CIA. There were certain forces in the U.S. government who worked with the Turkish paramilitary groups, including Abdullah Çatli’s group, Fethullah Gülen.

GIRALDI: Well, that could be either Joint Special Operations Command or CIA.

EDMONDS: Maybe in a lot of cases when they said State Department, they meant CIA?

GIRALDI: When they said State Department, they probably meant CIA.

---

Sibel Edmonds has also alleged that information that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks was suppressed by people within the FBI translation unit and that those people have been protected.

She has signed the 9/11 Truth Statement

She is also listed on the "Patriots Question 9/11" web site at http://patriotsquestion911.com/#Edmonds

So far, it appears to have been censored.

I think their antics may be worth a blog article.

http://candobetter.org/911truth

Here is the office of Jan Schakowsky's response...

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7429

"The American Conservative's most recent hit piece against Congresswoman Schakowsky is complete fantasy; cut from the same cloth as the stories by "birthers" that President Obama is not an American citizen. The source of this story subscribes to the bizarre conspiracy theory that elements of the United States government were involved in the 9/11 attacks.

A simple review of the facts would lead any responsible person to conclude that there is not a shred of truth to any aspect of this story.

It would be just as accurate to say the Congresswoman was kidnapped by little green men and carried in a space ship to the planet Xenon.

From the start, the fantasy is riddled with factual errors. It claims that an "intimate" relationship between a fictional female Turkish spy and the congresswoman began at the funeral of the congresswoman's mother after 2000, however, Rep. Schakowsky's mother died thirteen years earlier in 1987.

Furthermore, it is alleged that the "relationship" occurred in the congresswoman's bugged town house even though she has never owned or lived in a town house in her life. Congresswoman Schakowsky shares a small apartment with her husband in a busy Washington, DC apartment building and owns a single-family home in Illinois.

In fact not one of the events in this fantastic tale ever took place.

Had The American Conservative, (which was founded by Pat Buchanan) adhered to normal journalistic standards it would have fact checked the story and contacted our office. Its goal was not apparently good journalism, but to fabricate one more story line for the right wing smear machine and conspiracy theorists everywhere."

As far as I'm concerned, their response brings even more credibility to Sibel Edmonds. Be sure to read Sibel's response.

Edit: Take note about what Larisa Alexandrovna said:

I know who the alleged Rep is and so do others.

An indication that others are aware of possible shenanigans related to Schakowsky.


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

As far as I can tell

Sibel doesn't say the funeral was in or after 2000. She says that's when Schakowsky was added to the list. This seems like a straw man argument to me.

The specific details...

Of who owns what, or whose funeral she attended may not have been part of the "intercepted communication of targeted operatives" that Sibel has been reporting on "more or less verbatim." She says they referred to the mother as "the mother..." So, Sibel assumed, and rightly so, that it was Rep. Jan Schakowsky's mother.

She does make sure to say "Did the set up take place? Yes; confirmed by the FBI surveillance team; Chicago-Field Office."

There is an expression that I've heard before, but I don't remember it verbatim. It went something like, "if someone denies something in Washington D.C., you know they did it."

Edit: This certainly helps Sibel's credibility as well.

http://antiwar.com/radio/2009/09/22/philip-giraldi-joe-lauria/


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Where is Edmonds response?

I would like to read her response... Sounds to me by the tone of the congresswoman's letter that this is damage control...

She did...

In the original write-up by Brad Friedman, but here is the latest...

http://123realchange.blogspot.com/2009/09/in-pursuit-of-facts.html


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?