The "9/11 Truther Vent Thread" Over At JREF

I find this to not only be a little funny, but, a sign we are kicking their butts up and down the hall.

It looks as if they have been beat down so much that they have enacted a thread specifically for venting frusteration of their losses.

A place to pitch a bitch so to speak, to get it all out.

When all else fails...cry.

Once again I call for

all truth seekers from all walks of life to set up an account at JREF and speak your mind. We have them on the ropes now with truth and our success is very obvious.

The more of us there are over there, the less of them there are out there clogging up the truth with disinformation.

JREF is a major operation...You will find that many of the most ardent deniers call JREF their home base.

These people flood forums, blogs, BBSs, and the comment sections of news stories and videos with post after post of divide and conquer tactics. Some of the members are very organized and work in teams to try and flood forums with disinfo, thus trying to give the percetion they have the majority.

They will go on a comments section of a 9/11 truth news story and pose a question like "What do you think about abortion?" which will hijack the subject and get everyone fighting about that.

By keeping these people on their own damn forum they no longer have time to flood the internet.


Take the fight to JREF...

9-11 Truth = paranormal?, supernatural?, pseudoscience?

Is JREF the place to debate this?

9-11 truth is based on Empirical Science (well my "belief" that this is a false flag is)
JREF is ranked 33,000 th in the world according to Alexa. What proportion of this traffic is due to the 9-11 issue?

Don't JREFers represent the rump of what was once wide spread disbelief? and is now part of the Zeitgeist.

9-11 truth will grow exponentially from here, or it will whither for lack of feeding.

Ryan Mackey is a star at JREF but his work is dishonest. His work has the appearance of being Science, but cursory scrutiny shows how he's trying to mislead people.

I've mentioned this before here

Bazant is no better, they have nothing in the face of the Empirical Evidence

2.25 secs of free-fall at WTC7 is all you need!

They have a whole section for 9/11 conspiracies...

many newbies hit JREF for a perspective...All I am saying is it should not be one sided.


With all respect: I understand your frustration with that forum's existence, but posting at JREF is a waste of time. You are making them out to be FAR more important and influential than they really are. As 9/11 truthers we have far bigger fish to fry than the folks at

We can easily tell who there is paid to post. We can tell by the sheer volume of posts they type up. Anyone who has the time to post 8,000 or more posts in one year is pretty much at that forum full time. Of course such people know 9/11 is an inside job and they are professional spinmeisters trying to keep group B in the dark.

Group B, the posters with considerably less posts, are likely the "ordinary folks." They will blindly follow Mark Roberts, Ryan Mackey etc. only because they have an extremely strong confirmation bias in favor of the official story to begin with. These are the "Yee-haaawww, Gawd Bless Murka and it's Jesus-like gubermint. Ah feel soo warm and cozy that they're there ta pro-tect meee!"

Don't forget that Group A (the paid shills) WANT you to post there, because every minute you spend arguing with one of them is a minute not being spent hitting the streets etc. and waking up those that have never even heard of WTC7.

Almost 3 years ago a person named Seve_B wrote an excellent essay called Please Ignore the "Debunkers." I'll copy it here in full, the boldface mine.

When is everyone going to start ignoring these "debunkers"?

It's been awhile since I've gone over to SLC or JREF and read through their forums until the last couple of days, and now I know why: it is a complete waste of time. These people are either paid to oppose us or simply not willing or able to look at and understand the evidence. Either way they are beyond help and you have absolutely zero chance of converting any of them.

To those that fear newbies could stumble upon SLC [or JREF,, popular mechanics etc] and be convinced that the OCT is true, I can assure you there is little chance of that happening. The OCT defenders over there do not present persuasive arguments, and spend most of their time spewing ad hominems instead of addressing the real issues. The latest move by Troy of WV - posting Korey Rowe's personal cell phone number and encouraging people to call and harrass him - is but one example of the extreme vindictiveness these people feel towards us. My question again is why even engage these people in debate?

Let them spend all day congratulating themselves on their intellectual prowess. We should be spending our time reaching out to those that have never been exposed to the truth. When I make an effort to reach out to someone new, I am surprised to find that virtually every single time they have never even heard the SUGGESTION that 9/11 is anything other than Bin Laden + 19 hijackers. These are the people we should be concerned about. The mainstream media is not helping, so we have to do it. Forget the debunkers.

Plus, you should have confidence that any newbie who is truly interested in investigating 9/11 for themselves is going to look at more than one source for information. I know I did. I looked for months at all of the "debunking" material I could find. I remember reading through the "Loose Change Viewer's Guide" and breaking out in laugter. I don't know if they have revised it since, but at the time it was a childish attempt at debunking Loose Change. Again, have confidence that newbies will be smart enough to look at the "debunking" materials and see them for what they are - total crap.

In the off chance that a particular newbie is persuaded by the debunking materials, that is 100% fine with me. Coming to grips with the fact that 9/11 was an inside job isn't an easy thing to do. One of my friends used to get angry during debates with me on the subject because he could never effectively counter my points. The last time we debated he just flat out told me he thought what I was saying was legitimate, but that he "didn't want to believe it" because (1) he doesn't want to think our government could be so evil, and (2) if the truth did get out, it would have horrible consequences for our economy, etc. I said ok, and haven't brought it up in conversation since. Like I said, it's not for everyone. It's definitely easier (at the moment) for Americans to live life believing the OCT. Whether that remains true in the future remains to be seen.

For those that want to practice their debating skills and refine their arguments over at the debunking forums, this is only an admirable use of time if you are actually going out into the real world and using those refined skills and arguments to spread the truth to newbies. If you aren't applying your skills in the real world, you probably just enjoy debating the debunkers as a sort of hobby. Please don't. Time is precious in this movement, and your time would be much more effectively spent reaching out to those that have never heard of 9/11 Truth.

Finally, if you ignore the debunkers, the ones that aren't getting paid to do it may just get bored, stop their "debunking" activities altogether and go find something better to do. After all, they don't have the same challenge we have of reaching out to newbies, because the mainstream media spreads their message for them. People would tell him "Yeah, I know, I saw that on CNN last night, and the night before that, and the night before that." In other words, because newbies by definition already believe the OCT, the debunkers won't have anything to do with their time if those of us that are already converted stop engaging them in debate.

This blog may be a little late because right now there is a thread over at SLC about how quiet it's been around there and JREF lately, while dz is over here fighting to keep the 9/11 Blogger server up and running due to heavy traffic. We are making progress, people, and ignoring the debunkers can only help.

I agree about SCL...they are small time

But, JREF admits that it get GENEROUS FUNDING from Washington from a person who wants to remain secret. They are bigger than you think.

I do appreciate your input...

but, I don't see why we need to limit anything.

There are enough of us... We are starting to dominate the internet, as confirmed by JREFer "Bestiveverhad"

"'Truthers'.... argh!

One of the things that most gets me about the 'truth movement' is that they are completely messing up the internet. If you do a search on something it will always come back with a bunch of 'truther' crap.
How will all the lies and misinfo ever get removed from the net. How is this going to affect the up and coming youth? "


That is also a sign we are winning by attrition.

That to me says a lot...everytime we grow 1 person, they lose 1 person, and in retrospect maybe lose many more because that 1 person they lose may go on to awaken many others.

Some of us like to go someplace, some of us like to go other places... Some like forums, some like blogs...some like places where everyone agrees with their point, others like places where they are the minority.

I like being in the heart of a lot of competition personaly. It's much more fun to be the outspoken minority at their site.

I have a new account there, but they don't know who yet...I will bide my time, like last time.

For those of us who like taking the shills head on at their own time, head over to JREF and sign up today.


I mean, what the hell, we are all skeptics of something, right?


Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Yea great post

you can easily see their tactics...That's why I think it's important that we be over there, so when new people who have questions go there, they can see that we come with science, they come with insults.

The old ways of propaganda only work on a few people now...The name calling, the diversions...most people can see through that now.

We all have the right to choose our methods

We are all free beings and in facing this problem that we all share we can each do whatever we like - ie. choose our own way of fighting for 911 truth. Every effort counts. What every person does matters. What suits one individual as a method may not suit another.

I think we need to be tolerant of this. It is not true to say that our success depends upon everybody working in exactly the same way. Some may choose the same approach, others might try a different one. I think as long as it is a legitimate, honest, fair approach, an individual truther's efforts should not be discouraged. Sure, where problems exist with the ethics, honesty, sincerity, associations, quality of work, competence etc of individuals fighting for 911 truth, that can and should be identified and discussed - but the method they choose should not, because all of us have a base right of free will in this matter.

In our movement there are protests, mass gatherings, radio shows, TV appearances, public debates, postings to you tube, meetings every month, bloggers in the thousands, visibility actions, distributing flyers, videos, there are conferences, and challenges to debunkers on forums from the BBC to JREF to many, many others. All of these methods are legitimate and all of them contribute to a result in terms of people awakening to 911 truth.

For me, it was the high visibility and presence of those advocating 911 truth which made it possible for me to identify the logical and scientific flaws in the debunkers arguments, some five years ago. I think it's sad if a potential truther is discouraged by something they read at JREF and there is no counter argument ready at hand to enable immediate comparative analysis.

Personally, if someone told me, that they had decided to say a prayer every day for the truth about 911 to be realized by all, and that was all they were going to do, because that's what they felt was most useful - I wouldn't criticize them. How would I know if the Universe places more significance on prayers or protests or direct challenges to debunkers on JREF? Everyone does what they think is right.

Love Alison


I haven't been there in a while but I found JREF an excellent place to test theories and refine debating points [to make them JREF/spin-proof]. They have access to documents, photos etc. that no one else has. They pull them out to make a point but more often than not, if you read the entire document, it does just the opposite.

With the help of the lads at JREF I was able to prove that diesel fuel fires were not a factor in the collapse. It's a long slow process but in amongst all that horseshit there is a pony. Though the JERFers never concerted the point, NIST did.
Approach summary 12-18-07 pg 6
"The working hypothesis is based on an initial local failure caused by normal building fires, not fires from leaking pressurized fuel lines or fuel from day tanks."

This forced them to give up their original hypothesis that a pressure fed diesel fuel fire in the north-east generator room on floor 5, weakened column 79 to the point of failure.
Popular Mechanics "Debunking article" March 2005
Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

It takes a thick skin and a great deal of patience but the lads can be useful in spite of themselves.
There is also value in keeping the truth clearly stated [which sticks out like a sore thumb at JREF] for the lurkers who might have functioning brains.

Just keep your sense of humor [JREF is a joke] and state the truth clearly so a 15 year old can understand it. Carry on and give 'em hell.

Oh and AJM8125

You have to figure out who I am before you ban me at JREF... Took 2 years last time.

And BTW, why was I banned in the first place?...

Just because you could not have one guy like me making the lot of you look like the propagandists you are?