Apathy Time - how long until the public forgets and does not care?

It is common knowledge now that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a false flag operation to get the USA in to war with North Vietnam. Robert McNamara has come out publicly to acknowledge that the incident never happened. Over 30000 troops died in the Vietnam War. But where are the protesters now? Who is calling for a new investigation? Why isn't McNamara being charged for participating in a conspiracy that caused so many deaths? The public does not care.

There is evidence that The Maine was a false flag op to get us in to war with Spain. But there are no calls for a new investigation now. It has been so long. No one cares any more. We are not giving Puerto Rico back to Spain.

So there seems to be a time period, about 20 or 30 years, when the new generation hears about incidents in a history book or web site, and is apathethic about false flag operations. They may be interesting, but not motivating, to the public.

It has been almost 10 years since 9/11/2001, and it is harder to get people to care about what happened. It has been almost 7 since the start of a war to find weapons of mass destruction that did not exist. Where are the protesters now?

The perpetrators of 9/11 know that they do not have to fool the public forever, just long enough. Eventually the truth comes out. We need to move quickly, while the generation that experienced 9/11/2001 is still the most active. We need to get a New Investigation while the perpetrators can still be subpoenaed and prosecuted.

Otherwise it is Apathy Time for 9/11, and the perpetrators will have succeeded., and can even be interviewed on the History Channel, without fear of prosecution. We need to move quickly to get a New Investigation, while there are still people in the public who care.

Apathy from powerlessness

"Why isn't McNamara being charged for participating in a conspiracy that caused so many deaths? The public does not care."

In many cases I know of, the apathy comes as a response to feelings (and clear evidence) of powerlessness.

For instance, we know what happened subsequent the Kennedy assassination, the King assassination, the Bobby Kennedy assassination, and so many other atrocities including the very recent financial crash and subsequent bail-outs. People know -- we know -- that we can't do anything about these many government-inflicted (and/or assisted and/or covered up) atrocities. It does not matter whom we elect to what, and we know it.

Actually, a figure like King knew what it takes to change things, namely voluntary self-suffering -- lots of it too, with no end in sight. Gandhi said it takes readiness to sacrifice one's life if need be, while staying resolutely non-violent. He and King both paid that ultimate price too. And huge changes occurred in both cases.


were prone- they've got us over the kitchen table
maybe time to find a new house
one without deficit spending- a sure sign of the aristocracy, not the people in charge
i plan to leave my bit of the axis of weasels and base elsewhere, returning as a seasonal worker only
9/11 has opened my mind to research various political, economical, military and empire aspects and the idea of hauling anchor isnt so crazy these days

If this blog is meant to discourage us,

it will not work.

If this blog is meant to inspire us, please provide some ideas or actions that inspire.

The United States of America is a country of 300 million diverse people, thus it does not move quickly until fully roused and that takes time.

How many still have not seen the controlled demolition of WTC 7?

How many still do not know the family members want a new investigation?

How many still do not know that NORAD told three contradictory stories about their actions on 9/11?

How many still do not know that billions were bet in the markets on 9/11 before that terrible day?

How many people, cicorp, have you educated about the true facts and physics regarding the events of 9/11?

What kind of investigation do you envision and how do you propose we get it?

Building (a now global) social movement take time and patience, this is a marathon against very smart sociopaths whose plans span generations, not a sprint against one "incompetent cheerleader" who was groomed for one major role.

Every day the present financial crisis grows worse and every day more people are becoming open to the idea that the corruption that has taken over the US is far greater and deeper than they suspected. This is an audience that is increasingly becoming open to 9/11 truth IF we stick to credible facts and simple physics AND remain civil at all times.

As we near the tipping point we need to keep our focus and begin to organize ourselves nationally, as things will start to get crazier and we must be ready to lead the way through the coming upheaval and adhere to the principles that have brought us this far.

Let's never forget, brothers and sisters, that we are inducing a (hopefully peaceful) revolution and our adversaries will throw everything at us they can.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Vote me down but

I thought it was 58,000 american casualities in Vietnam. Nothing is being done because mac namara is dead. More importantly what do we do and how can we suceed? I have said many times without much sucess that evidence won't do it by itself without People. Lots of People! We have plenty of evidence and lots of Media, Political Leaders, Judges, and so many more people have been informed. Eventually it doesn't matter, look at the WMD lies. Nobody cares that we lied, no one is in trouble, they don't even deny it.

Thats why imo the only chance is for the people to form a substantial MOVEMENT and that means people in mass. We have to stop quarrelling about what hit the damn pentagon, who has muslim or jewish issues, what exactly is the science, who's qualified to speak, where the footnote is and all the details that won't matter if we don't have large numbers of people. Otherwise nothing will get done, it has been established so many times. They will roll out a limited hangout like they did for watergate, Iran contra, waco etc. Let's face it with all we know about these events yet we still don't know the whole story. Most important everyone gets a pardon, and nothing really changes.
The trouble with this post is that you are uncomfortable with it because it's reality. Time tested. Yes 911 can be different but only if a million people circle the whitehouse and another 5 million or more call their representatives. We need to stop fighting among ourselves and saying these truthers are better or more professional or better informed and start sticking together. Time is not on our side we can fight over the details later. The big picture is not pretty and we better face it, the odds are against us! Sorry but the truth hurts. Go ahead and vote me down I really don't care. I have to call it like I see it, sorry.

It's easy to get discouraged

But the big difference this time is - we have the internet were we can exchange information, ideas and strategies. Persistence furthers, truth and tenacity will succeed eventually. We have the "Zapruder film" of 9/11" and the Building What? campaign is working. Stay the course. Like Bob said, "Investigating WTC 7 is just the beginning", but it will open the flood gates.

Katrina was the tipping point for Bush. Most people who had supported him lost faith in him at that point. The bailout was the tipping point for many if not most Americans and they lost all faith in the government. They are ready for the truth about 9/11. We can make the turnabout by Geraldo the tipping point for 9/11 Truth by pulling together and redoubling our efforts - and money. Money talks. We have all the freedom of speech we are willing to pay for. We are in an information war and the way to win is getting the videos of WTC 7 imploding on MSM TV.

The Huffington Post, Raw Story, AlterNet and others have finally lifted the ban on talking about 9/11 and we are "taking it to the house" in the comments every time they post an article about 9/11.

"They" have allowed Geraldo to break the Zapruder film, LBJ's mistress saying he admitted being part of the plot to kill Kennedy and now WTC 7 because they think they can contain it like they have before. They have a plan and they have taken us into consideration. We will just have to deal with whatever they throw at us when it comes. In the mean time, we have our foot in the door and if we all push together we can force it open. Once the populace sees the implosion of WTC 7, most will be open to the rest of the evidence.

Yes, I agree

The internet is a great potential game changer that is new to the equation. The elite criminal class has a plan and we had better not underestimate them. I do think they could make a bad move here. They could try to set up a limited hangout and it could backfire this time. Even a chess master can make a risky move and even an amatuer can make a better one. How's that for trying to remain positive. I'm not giving up, more people are easier to wake up than ever, they don't trust the government and suspect the worse after just getting conned by the WMD lie, the Obama end the war and torture dodge, and are wondering where have all the jobs really gone. Let's keep our eyes on the board and play to win!

One by one, we must

One by one, we must assimilate high value personalities into our collective understanding of 911 truth. The public in general relies on these personalities to filter for them the issues that demand their attention. There is trust and unspoken loyalty and credibility established between these personalities and the consumers of their opinions. We fail to engage the public in these issues if we fail to convince their authorities. We must adapt to this challenge with a concerted effort to focus our attention where it is most effective and convincing.

Regarding the use of online petitions such as at ae911truth.org which I support and am a signatory of, I view this method of increasing our ranks of supporters as a passive effort and the ever so tediously rising numbers of signatories lack the impact that the disinterested public psyche requires to assign the 911 issue enough credence to give it serious consideration. Now please don't misunderstand what I mean by passive because I'm not saying that proactive work hasn't been a part of this process. Thank you Richard Gage for all you do, sir. What I mean is that the slowyly growing numbers of signatories does not impact believers of the OCT as much as it has more personal meaning for the signatory himself.

But in contrast to a "passive" online petition, and on the other side of the spectrum, standing up in public meetings and shouting our mantras at media personalities likely yields not only neutral benefits but negative benefits.

I propose a new strategy.

I believe we need to form delegates from each professional body of supporters for a new investigation who will act in a coordinated blitz attack strategy at specific political and media targets. For example, the 911 delegates (maybe from Pilots, Architects, Intelligence Prof. Scholars, etc, etc), acting in concert and backed by the general supporters, should choose a target on whom to concentrate our education efforts. We can start with Geraldo the first month and then try Keith Olberman.

We need to FORCE this issue on the agenda, one personality at a time, cracking the mental barriers and delusions and letting the viewers ultimately (but not initially) witness the conversions themselves by the undeniably massive overwhelming volume of evidence lying at their feet. I don't believe these delegates should make their approach public initially. I believe there needs to be a whole new level of sober tact applied to our approach and that these high value media and political targets should not be engaged in their natural elements in which they are most likely to be defensive, adversarial, resistant, or bound by sound bite time constraints.

Force AMY GOODMAN to look at this issue like never before
Force NOAM CHOMSKY to look at this issue and see that the scientific articles do indeed exist
Force KEITH OLBERMAN and JON STEWART and BILL MAHER to engage with us on a level that allows them to think critically rather than to formulate habitual responses to our efforts that come from the awareness that their home audience is watching them on camera!! We must stop engaging these people in their elements and think they aren't going to be defensive!


Someone at another thread here pointed us to this upbeat essay. Did folks here see it already? Interested in others' take on it. The topic is most relevant to this discussion.

EDIT: I notice the essay I link above, by Ken Jenkins, is from 2005. Here is a quote from it:

"Another good metaphor for our times is an addict hitting bottom. It's painful as hell, but it is looked back upon as "the best thing that ever happened" and "a turning point of my life", or more to the point "if that (terrible experience) hadn't happened, I don't know if I would be alive today". Now with this nightmarish crisis our world has become, folks are hearing the alarm, and more and more are waking up. "

This blog is mean to encourage us

Thanks for responding, and caring. This blog is mean to encourage us. This entry is intended to remind us that we need to move quickly to get a New Investigation, while there are still people in the public who care.

We just had the anniversary of the murder of JFK by conspirators, but how many Americans care after 47 years? Jesse Ventura just did a great special about it on TruTV.com which will hopefully get the American public motivated again. We need a new, third investigation of JFK too, to get it right.

I talk to at least someone every day about the need for a new 911 investigation.

The new commission should have scientists, not politicians. For the Challenger disaster, we quickly had NASA scientists, including Nobel Prize winning physicist Dr. Richard Feynman. We should have independent PhDs, particularly in Civil Engineering and Physics, from various universities.

Each day we are nearing the day when American collective consciousness wakes up, and realizes it was duped on 9/11. Keep speaking out.


I think this blog was meant to lament apathy, not laud it, although I understand your concerns with negative vibes, so to speak.

cicorp, I don't think a new commission should have only scientists, but perhaps academics. At least, not just people specialized in a technical field.

It should be either a truth commission after the South African model or it should be an international commission.

A whole slew of safeguards should be in place to prevent the usual sabotage efforts, i.e. limited hangout, discrediting by association, rogue infiltrators, stonewalling, national security excuses, underfunding, limitation of scope, conflicts of interest, secrecy, immunity, red herrings, nepotism, etc.etc. etc.

Every witness testimony should be under oath.

Personally, I don't think it's ever going to happen, but this does not discourage me at all. I will speak truth no matter who listens.

I would like to couple the effort with an similar inquiry into torture, wiretapping, corruption, assassinations, and rising totalitarianism.

In essence, why should we be a single issue movement? Torture is linked directly to 9/11, so is the energy conundrum and the power of the oil lobby. We should have multiple independent investigations.

This blog is meant to encourage us

Sorry, type-o I meant MEANT to encourage us.

Apathy is now.

Perhaps that time is already here. Let's face it, if Geraldo can openly question the official story, then have the story disappear, nobody really cares. If polls realistically suggest nearly half the population question the official story yet nobody starts a revolution, nobody really cares.
As dire as the media claims the situation is, it's not bad enough to cause the majority to rise up en masse. Plus we are regularly distracted by trivial BS that has no effect on our real lives.
Bread and circuses equal apathy folks.

"The Shock Doctrine" in reverse

Reference Naomi Klein's theory of The Shock Doctrine.

The theory can work for the good as well as for the bad. "Collective shock" from our tragedies is equivalent to a build up of potential energy that can be directed to productive purposes, with the proper leadership, just as easily as for hurtful purposes in the case of Bush and his cowpoke sense of justice.

The case is made by Naomi that the Right Wing hawks PLAN for disasters and have alternatives waiting in the wings.

We can do the same. We need better coordination of our numerous 911 groups all working together in a demonstration of unity. We should focus our education efforts on specific personalities in such a way that intelligently and respectfully forces the overlooked issues back into the foreground. We need to stop assuming that our online petitions are going to impress any other than those of us, myself included, who are signing them and take the message to the doorsteps of the gatekeepers.

something positive

my thoughts above are from the heart but are not inspiring
as im letting out my feelings that could lead to depression (hope cicorp hasnt tried to make toast in his bath) i want to leave something positive before this blog looks too much like a truthers graveyard

DONATE to Building What

i dont care if you're a grownup or a kid with a paper round (how we say it in the uk- delivering newspapers)
do 2 jobs
do overtime
do whatever, get money, DONATE
they are making headway
it is working

the first time i donated to NYCCAN they were called the NYC ballot initiative
it wasnt working
then there was a confrontation with the guy running it and he was kicked off
i continued donating - another twice i think
in the end i gave $2000 total of all my donations
they went before judge lerner and didnt get what they were trying for
then i heard nothing much for a while other than they were getting media help- help to be more media savvy
then nothing much.....
then this!!
great return on the investment
because of the ad campaign they had the momentum to get on fox

keep DONATING it works
might not be the instant gratification that we expect in the push button modern world but they bring it home using a clever strategy towards an end goal of an investigation into 9/11

How long?

How long until the public forgets? Forgets? The public has only just started -- barely; just a few of them -- to learn about this. It is up to us to keep those fires burning. As D.Hilton points out, our efforts have resulted in the Geraldo breakthrough.

Apathy will occur if we relax the pressure.

My own comment above, about powerlessness, is not a suggestion. I do not want or even expect apathy due to powerlessness. I do notice it, but mostly not here, not among people trying to make a difference. NYCan's efforts showed and show the opposite of powerlessness.

Not to sound dispondant..

Around 75% of Americans do not believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone or suspect some type of cover-up and where does that get us today? There was some action after the Zapruder film was aired (on Geraldo no less.. irony is so ironic huh?) we had the House Select Committee on Assassinations and in their final report stated "was very likely a result of a conspiracy" but what did it in terms of catching the real killers and having justice? The people should still be demanding the FBI be seeking these criminals, there is no statute of limitations in this matter. Will people get mad enough over 9/11 to warrant an all out exhaustive, unrestricted access, investigation by independent bodies, possibly even international investigative bodies, subpoena our nations leaders of military, politics, and finance for depositions. The wave of utter, utter, utter of indignation that would befall "the great democratic experiment".

I am hopeful that from that, a new form of society can emerge with new values. That can create an honest economy that serves all people. One that is built around one common goals that serve the long term survival of the planet and the human race without prejudice.

thanks for hearing me out.

peace all

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
p.s. to hoakey to quote John Lennon now?.. I'll risk it

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
-John Lennon

Lee Harvey or Lee Oswald ?

(I've read Jesse Ventura's new book.)
Also has stuff on 9/11


RCA is Root Cause Analysis. It's used in work settings such as a hospital when a Sentinel event takes place such as a major medication error resulting in the death of a relatively healthy person. It's a systemwide examination step in the process until everything in the system is analyzed, and turned inside-out to find out why it happened and how to prevent it from happening ever again.

This is our goal. Nothing short of a complete retooling of how things are done. The authority granted to these fools in Washington is a granted authority, a conditional authority, not an absolute authority. It can be taken away.

We can't afford to let 911 be swept under the rug. Our quibbling about various peripheral issues every election cycle is what Washington wants, but no more. There's a new sheriff in town and it's time to get to the root of all this crap.