New document supports Norman Mineta's testimony about VP Dick Cheney

John Farmer just posted a document from the 9/11 Commission files that strongly supports Norman Mineta's public testimony before the 9/11 Commission. Here is the link:

The document is a Secret Service log from 9/11, and confirms that the Secret Service was tracking American Airlines flight 77 as it approached Washington on September 11, 2001.

Farmer, who pursued the FOIA request for the 9/11 RADES radar data (released in October 2007) explains in his post that the radar data from 9/11 agrees perfectly with the Secret Service timeline. Farmer has the 9/11 radar data in his computer and has made it available to other 9/11 researchers.

The document was first made made public in January 2009 by NARA, along with many other 9/11 Commission files. Erik Larson posted it to Scrib in April 2009, where it may be downloaded:

However, at the time, Erik overlooked the document's importance. Amazingly, it escaped notice for many months.

It may also be downloaded here (this is an easier download):

I have just received confirmation that the handwriting is actually that of 9/11 Commission staffer Miles Kara, who was granted access to the original Secret Service documents during the commission's official investigation. Kara was not allowed to remove the SS document, however, so he copied it long-hand.

Notice, this means that the 9/11 Commission had this information but chose to bury it, Why? Maybe to cover up for VP Dick Cheney? If someone has a better explanation, I'd like to hear it.

I should mention, based in emails, that Miles Kara believes that Mineta arrived at the White House much later, and mistook United Airlines Flight 93 in coast track mode for AA 77. Kara also thinks that the Secret Service did not move Cheney to the White House basement until around 9:37 AM. I do not agree with Kara's timeline. In 2002, Karl Rove told MSNBC that immediately after GW Bush left the Florida classroom (i.e, at 9:16 AM) he attempted to reach Cheney by telephone, but could not because Cheney was at that moment being hustled to safety. Rove's timeline concurs with that of Richard A. Clarke (Against All enemies, p.2-5.) Clarke also has Mineta arriving at the White House sometime between 9:20 - 9:28 AM.

It is ironic that Farmer elected to post the document on the RANDI site - of all places - in the Lion's Den. From what I have heard, there has been a lot of gnashing of teeth over there, since it went up. In my view, it's about time that the RANDI cynics were made to eat their own ridicule. May they chow down and be transformed.

For those who need a refresher, here is Mineta's testimony:

50, 30, 10 Miles OUT

We've heard this story many times. Norman Mineta says there was a young man reporting the progress of a plane headed towards Washington. He says to VP Cheney, the plane is 50 miles out. Then 30 miles. Then 10 miles out.

The notes about Mineta's testimony clearly show that the plane went south after the 9:34am 10 mile out report. At 9:36am they observed that it circles west and was returning.

So which 50, 30, 10 miles is the young man speaking about? The first approach or the second?

This means VP Cheney had even more time to take corrective action.

Mineta resigns

one day after James Fetzer highlighted his story on Fox News. Take Fetzer for whatever, this is suspicious behaviour to say at least.


Excellent work! Thanks for continuing to do the digging and research. The vast majority are holding signs, keeping websites running and hosting events, so it's critical that some are doing the important research.

>>Notice, this means that the 9/11 Commission had this information but chose to bury it, Why?

It would be great if someone did an essay on this very subject to bring it to the front all over again, the Omission Commission, and what their agenda was.

Also relevant:

How They Get Away With It
by Michael Green
June 18, 2006
The question posed by this chapter title is a good one, but it has a simple answer. Mineta was not an operative in 911, he did not understand the significance of his testimony, and so he did not simply answer Lee Hamilton’s question, but elaborated on the general theme of orders to shoot down planes on 911. Had the 911 Commission been interested in the truth rather than in covering up the truth, Hamilton & Co. would have pursued Mineta’s revelation with great diligence, extracting every relevant detail and putting it into context. Instead, Mineta’s embarrassing elaboration prompted both Commissioners Lee Hamilton and Tim Roemer to do their best to shut him down and up, and to blur and blunt and smother its significance. Such intervention by Hamilton and Roemer is by itself sufficient to establish the 911 Commission as committed to cover-up.

They've buried a lot, too much, which can be a problem because it overwhelms people to try to keep track of all the facts that are missing or distorted. That's why essays engaging a specific cover-up in great detail are helpful because they help the reader to deeply understand a key point, while avoiding the blizzard of other points which are also left out or distorted which would overload someone's brain.

The many omissions and distortions which were once located here, are now removed, of course, in favor of broad statements of opinion that leave one with a general feeling, but gloss past the Report details itself.

The original page, Criticisms of the 9/11 Commission Report, is now replaced by Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report.

Did you catch the difference? If not, look again at the first word.

That level of absurdity is what wikipedia engages in to hide facts that are missing or distorted in the 9/11 report. I happened to have saved the url of part of the discussion on the original version, which is the only way to know about it now. Today, even if you try to find the original version by typing in it's title, you are redirected to the new version, even though the old version is still on wikipedia.

What all of this amounts to is that these missing and distorted facts matter. Get them organized into a readable format, in digestible chunks, in essays or talks or outreach material, and spread them.

i think it's also possible that

Mineta accidentally on purpose mis answered the commissions question by changing the subject to AA77 because he maybe saw what had happened and saw it as his patriotic duty to discretely let the truth out but in a subtle enough way that he didn't get whacked.

WHO is saying and seeing what?

The notes from the SS log state"

"FAA PO" advises:
--2 aircraft unaccounted (9:27)
--1 of 2 unaccounted aircraft is heading toward DC and not communicating (9:30)
--aircraft is 30 miles away from DC (9:31)

The notes then state:

"JOC" observed the aircraft 10 miles out from DC (9:34)

Does anyone know what "FAA PO" and "JOC" are acronyms for? I thought "JOC" might stand for Joint Operations Center, but that doesn't seem to have formed until after 9/11/01.



Mike Weikert was in charge in the FAA-Headquarter for the "primary net" (hijack-net). In his statement to the 911 commission, he describes, what happened shortly before the Pentagon attack. He says, that the FAA-Headquarter tried to "raise" the White House, Defense Department, and that Belger was monotoring "both nets":
"We were trying to raise them when we were tracking the plane that crashed in the Pentagon. Belger was in the room at the time. He was monitoring both nets."

Secret Service Joint Operations Center (JOC) at the White House

It is interesting, that the JOC behavior was supicious in regards to another anomaly:

Foreknowledge of two more hijacked planes around 09:03 heading towards D.C.


"FAA PO" is abbreviated in the entry prior as "Pres Ops" which I guess means President of Operations. Sorry, I didn't see that before asking.

It is GOOD to have you here Mark!

Another researcher joins 911blogger!

Welcome, Mark!

Your continued research has been important in the search for 9/11 truth. Keep up the good work. It is very much appreciated.

Thank you Erik...

For locating this, and MANY other documents.

"Miles Kara believes that Mineta arrived at the White House much later, and mistook United Airlines Flight 93 in coast track mode for AA 77."

Flight 93 never came within 50, 30, or 10 miles of Washington D.C.

Good find Mark Gaffney.

Miles Kara is like the JAG attorney for the oct

take everything he says with a grain of salt, I believe he was put up to further confuse and muddying the water.

Even more ridiculous

Secretary Mineta, when confronted by Ray McGovern on the issue, tried to imply that he was referring to Flt 93 and not Flt 77 during that testimony. This makes no sense unless one accepts Shanksville as the REFERENCE POINT to which the 'young man' was referring.

This hard evidence find is very important, but we must remember that logic is absent in the whole scenario. Let's complete the sentence for the 'young man': "Sir, the plane is 10 miles out (from shanksville!!!)." No disrespect to Shanksville intended.



The reading is being calculated from somewhere. FROM ZE FUHRERBUNKER!!!!

Or maybe from the Pentagon. Or maybe from Reagan national or Dulles. But not from Shanksville.

Shanksville is a lot more than 10 miles from DC or Arlington. The whole obfuscation is ridiculous.

When do these slimy perps get their turn in front of the jury?

testimony admissible in a court of law:

In his testimony, Mineta explained that “probably about five or six minutes” after he entered the
PEOC, he observed a conversation between Dick Cheney and a young aide.

“… during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was
a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is
50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The
plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do
the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck
around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard
anything to the contrary?"”


pretty clear it was all about "the airplane coming into the Pentagon"

Thank you...

Thank you Erik and Mark.

Miles Kara has just posted

Miles Kara has just posted some comments about the FAA timeline. Here is the link:

He writes that the long hand document was a compilation of his own notes summarizing several SS documents from 9/11. Notice, he says Cheney was evacuated at 9:37 AM, rather than 9:35, as I wrote above. In other words, the note "VP" at 9:37 is Kara's own reference to Cheney's evacuation at 9:37, not a reference to the famous interaction with the young man.

Kara claims that Mineta did not arrive at the White House until after 9:40 AM.

I beg to differ. Kara ignores Karl Rove's account, and also Richard A. Clarke's timeline (Against All Enemies, p. 1-5) published in 2004. Like Rove, Clarke describes Cheney being evacuated before 9:20 AM. This makes sense to me. It stands to reason that the Secret Service would evacuate the VP, first thing, before anyone else.

Clarke also has Mineta arriving at the White House between 9:20 - 9:28 AM.

It occurred to me that because Mineta's conversation with his aide Monte Belger about the incoming bogey occurred after Mineta's arrival at the White House, the question about the timeline could be resolved simply by checking Mineta's cell phone calls, for that morning. Surely the 9/11 Commission had access to these records. When I asked Kara about this he replied: "Mark, I did not work on that aspect."

If anyone knows how to access the old phone records, researching this would be well worth the trouble. But do not be surprised if the record has gone missing.

In any event, the concurrence of the radar data, the SS files and Mineta's own testimony strikes me as powerful mutually corroborating evidence.


Mineta phoned Belger with his cell-phone? Where and when? Do you want to say, that Mineta phoned Belger in the bunker by his cell phone around 09:25 ?

Using the calculator

Using the calculator here:

I determined that Shanksville to DC is 126 miles, straight line air distance.

Flight 93 never got within 50, 30 or 10 miles of DC.

DC is southeast of Shanksville, therefore no observation about circling west and returning could have been made.

The young man must be speaking about the Pentagon and therefore it must be prior to 9:32am.

About Miles Kara and AA77

There is something I noticed about the handwritten notes from Miles Kara which would seem to me that he couldn't have been writing these notes in real time at the times they were happening and that he must have fabricated or guessed these times after the events.

If you look at his notes at 9:38 he states that "AC crashes in to symbol (Pentagon)". But this raises a few questions....

How would he know that a plane had crashed into it the Pentagon at 9:38 when it was not clear from the news reports what had hit the Pentagon for a few more minute after the event had happened?

Cheney in his interview with Tim Russert dated 16th Sept 2001, says that they had heard the Pentagon had been hit but according to him there were conflicting report so they were not sure.

Cheney:- "But when I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagon's been hit. We had word the State Department had been bombed, that a car bomb had gone off at the State Department. Turned out not to be true, but we didn't know that at the time. We had a report that Norm had provided that there were six airplanes that might have been hijacked, and that's what we started working off of, was that list of six.

Now we could account for two of them in New York. The third one we didn't know what had happened to it. It turned out it had hit the Pentagon. But the first reports on the Pentagon attack suggested a helicopter, and then later, a private jet, and it was only after we got ahold of some eyewitnesses that we knew it was an American Airlines flight."

So according to Miles own account and if he was writing his notes in real times, he knew that an aircraft had hit the Pentagon long before Cheney himself knew and the people in the PEOC.

Even if we accept that Cheney and the people in the PEOC knew about the plane hitting the Pentagon at 9:38 then I have another witnesses who often gets overlooked who confirms that Cheney, along with Norman Mineta, were in the PEOC when they heard of the Pentagon attack. This shows that Miles is totally wrong when he claims that Mineta arrives sometime after 9:40am.

Eric Edelman gave an interview with Newsweek and says that Clarke sends him over to the PEOC. (Edited but full transcript in link below)

"So I made my way down to the PEOC. It took me a few minutes to get there, security was extremely tight. The Secret Service is posted at various way stations. And got in there, the Vice President was there, Scooter was there, Condi was down there. A lot of other staff were there. A small number, but (inaudible) numbers varied during the course of the day.

But I went to the Vice President, and spoke with him, explained that counterterrorism types were concerned about his safety. We knew we were dealing with -- and Secretary Mineta was down there, by the way -- concerned about his safety and raising the issue of relocation to an alternate site. He didn't" even hesitate for one second -- and Condi was there --he said, no; he said, I don't want to leave, we've got a lot of connectivity here with the President. And I'm not sure, he may have already spoken to the President by that point, I'm not sure.............

Q: So what time -- where are we in the time line?

MR. EDELMAN: Because the -- I don't believe that the -- well, I'm not sure -- the President -- let me say, the Vice President had been taken down there, I understand, when they, you know, were under the impression that one of the hijacked planes might be headed towards restricted airspace over Washington. And that's the plane that ultimately hit the Pentagon.

I was already down in the PEOC with the Vice President when we got word that there had been an explosion at the Pentagon.

Q: So you were actually in the PEOC when that happened?

MR. EDELMAN: When that happened."

So Edelman confirms in this interview that Cheney, Mineta and others were in the PEOC when they hear of the Pentagon attack and if Miles Kara thinks that he and the people in the PEOC knew at 9:38, then Mineta was definitely there.

Lewis "Scooter" Libby also confirms in an interview with Newsweek that he heads of the PEOC and sees Mrs Cheney with her SS detail, they see Dick Cheney in the tunnel on the phone with the president and they all head off to the PEOC when they hear of the Pentagon attack. Later on in his interview, he says that Mineta is working with Cheney on a 6 possible hijacked planes. This is the same report that Cheney mentions in his interview with Tim Russert on the 16th Sept and Libby's account confirms what Mineta said in an interview with We Are Change years later, where he says that Mrs Cheney was already in the PEOC when he arrives.

Mrs Cheney is often used by debunkers to discredit Mineta because of what he said in that interview with We Are Change but if Libby's account is anything to go by, Mrs Cheney could have been there when Mineta suggests.

So we have Karl Rove, Richard Clarke and David Bohrer who all suggest that the evacuation of Dick Cheney happened much earlier than the commissions suggests. We have Norman Mineta, Richard Clarke, Eric Edelman, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Condi Rice and Dick Cheney himself whose accounts are corroborating that Cheney was in the PEOC when he hears of the Pentagon attack which disproves the commissions claims that he heard about the Pentagon attack while in the tunnel leading to the PEOC and that he arrived at 9:58am, perhaps 10:00 were wrong.

It also strengthens the case that Mineta was exactly where he said he was around the time he said he was.

So the question is, what was the order Mineta overheard?

We know that there was no fighter jet within range to shoot down AA77 when it was 50, 30 and 10 miles.

The only person who knows is Dick Cheney and Douglas F. Cochrane who was the aide updating Cheney, but unfortunately, his interview is still classified.

But the order is significant and probably the reason for the cover up.

Was it an order to stand down fighters?
Was it an order to send fighters the wrong way?
Was it an order to not notify the Pentagon?

Although we know it was not a shoot down order, we can only speculate as to what it is.

Cheney's in the Bunker - A Song with Footnotes

Cheney's in the Bunker - A Song with Footnotes - Truth Troubadour Blog at 911Blogger