Support 911Blogger


AE911Truth Returns to Europe: Ten-City Tour to Shatter 9/11 Myth with Explosive Evidence

It has been almost three years since AE911Truth crossed the Atlantic to share the explosive 9/11 evidence with Europe. Now, founder Richard Gage, AIA, and other activists are making a return visit. The month of June will take Gage across the British Isles and onto the mainland in a new tour of Europe, where numerous audiences will be exposed to the WTC technical analysis that has the backing of more than 1500 architects and engineers.

This tour kicks off on the TV3 news show Ireland: AM on June 9, where Gage will discuss the scientific and forensic evidence behind 9/11 with early morning TV viewers. As the country’s only breakfast news program, Ireland A.M. provides AE911Truth with an opportunity to educate tens of thousands about the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers and WTC Building 7.

Irish audiences will be able to see the 9/11: Blueprint for Truth presentation live in Dublin on June 11, where Gage will join several influential figures for a unique event. WeAreChange founder Luke Rudkowski, geopolitical researcher Alan Watt, Dr. Andrew Wakefield and others will also speak, along with Jim Corr, famed Irish activist from the band The Corrs.

This conference was made possible through the sponsorship of the Sovereign Independent, the leading 9/11 Truth publication in Ireland. Its founder, Ian Crilly, sees great promise in presenting this provocative information at public venues. “I believe that many people know that something is wrong with that 9/11 narrative,” he said, “and events like these will encourage them to mix with others who have also asked themselves the same questions.”

 

Near the Blarney Castle, an iconic medieval stronghold, Richard Gage, AIA, will prove how modern-day architectural icons, the Twin Towers, were brought down with explosives on 9/11

Dundalk, Ireland, will receive a visit from Gage on June 12 as he speaks again alongside other respected activists in an encore presentation as close to Belfast as is politically advisable.

Those who cannot attend the first two Ireland events can catch Gage on June 15 in Cork, Ireland, where again he will be joined by Rudkowski – and former EU politician Kathy Sinnot. This gathering will be held at the Montenotte Hotel, just 5 minutes from the Blarney Castle, a 600-year-old fortress that is a sterling example of the durability of medieval Western architecture.

The first stop in the U.K. will bring AE911Truth to Edinburgh, Scotland, on June 17. This will be the fourth time that Gage speaks, yet again, before Rudkowski following the precedent set at the inspirational “Engineering Change” symposium in Atlanta, Georgia.

Cambridge University, an elite institution recognized for its long history of research and development, will host the research of AE911Truth into its halls on June 18

“We often find ourselves invited to speak at the same conferences with Rudkowski because there is a natural compatibility in us presenting the technical information and then having the activists at WeAreChange taking the information to the people with ‘feet in the street’,” Gage said. “We hope that people throughout Europe are encouraged by our example and share this vital evidence with their neighbors – though we have been forewarned that the Irish media is no friendlier to 9/11 truth than here in the US.”

In the end, you may only need to open the eyes of just one observer who could bring our important message to a whole new level.

This midpoint in the tour won’t provide a chance to pause and rest, as Gage will board a train that same night on a five-hour journey from Edinburgh to London then to Cambridge for an afternoon presentation at Cambridge University. The Cambridge University Truth Movement Society, led by CU student and founder Silkie Carlo, has arranged for Gage to engage students and academics on the University’s renowned campus on June 18.

Europe Tour Dates and Locations

Date
Venue City
June 11 Stillorgan Park Hotel Dublin, Ireland
June 12 Fairways Hotel Dundalk, Ireland
June 15 Montenotte Hotel Cork, Ireland
June 17 Edinburgh Capital Hotel Edinburgh, Scotland
June 18 Cambridge University Cambridge, England
June 19 Glamorgan University Cardiff, Wales
June 20 Royal Institute of British Architects London, England
June 21 Colston Hall Bristol, England
June 24 Schieblock Rotterdam, Netherlands
June 25 TrouwAmsterdam Amsterdam, Netherlands

 

For Carlo, the significance of this event is almost tangible. “It gives those who have privately questioned the official conspiracy theory the hope that they are not alone, and those with inquiring scientific minds a space to learn and debate,” she said. “At the same time, those who have not considered this issue before might receive a potentially life-changing wake-up call.” Indeed – many of us are grateful to have been similarly “woken-up”.

Cambridge is also home to Dr. Keith Seffen, Professor of Engineering, who has made headlines as a defender of the official 9/11 account. He claimed in 2007 that he had created mathematical models that prove the destruction of the Twin Towers was “a very ordinary thing to happen.” Carlo has invited Seffen to attend the AE911Truth presentation on campus and participate in a debate about the scientific evidence, but so far he has refused. His detailed mathematical model can be seen here.

British scholars will get a second opportunity to witness the 9/11: Blueprint for Truth presentation firsthand on June 19, when Gage visits Glamorgan University in Cardiff, Wales.

On June 20, the myth-shattering work of AE911Truth will enter the halls of the Royal Institute of British Architects (RIBA), one of the world’s most prestigious architecture organizations, when Gage gives a milestone presentation at their historic headquarters in the heart of London. RIBA member Craig Kiner paved the way for this landmark assembly, and Gage is hopeful that other RIBA architects will be enlightened to the startling evidence as a result.

“I’m very excited to bring the explosive evidence to the building experts at the Royal Institute of British Architects,” Gage said. “Many are not aware of this information, and once technical professionals see it, they reluctantly, but overwhelmingly, agree that there must be a new investigation.”

Early birds can watch Gage break down the informative 9/11 evidence on Ireland: AM, and night owls can tune into The Moore Show to view his expert analysis

The U.K. portion of this tour will conclude on June 21, when Gage presents the incendiary 9/11 evidence in the new wing of the famous Colston Hall in Bristol, England. According to organizer Sheila Coombes, Bristol is already abuzz in anticipation of Gage’s arrival.

“As a city with a vibrant architectural history, Bristol is a natural home for the work of AE911Truth,” Coombes remarked. “We are eager to meet with Gage, and join the scientific discussion about the destruction of the WTC skyscrapers.” Fortunately for citizens of mainland Europe, this tour doesn’t end at England’s shores. The Netherlands will be the last stop, as it plays host to AE911Truth for a pair of thought-provoking events. Residents of Rotterdam will get a chance to witness Gage’s scientific exposition on June 24, and Amsterdam provides the backdrop for a final presentation on the following day.

Dutch architect Wico Valk, a member of the AE911Truth volunteer team, is optimistic about the events in the Netherlands that he is coordinating. “I hope that many people will attend the presentations in each city,” he said, “but in the end, you only need to open the eyes of just one observer who could bring our important message to a whole new level.”

You can find out more information about each of these meetings in the Events section at AE911Truth.org. We also encourage you to stay tuned to our homepage, as Gage will be providing regular updates from Europe as the voyage progresses.

This tour of Europe would have been impossible without the aid of activists, sustaining supporters and readers like you. With our new e-Scrip program and a multitude of volunteer opportunities, you can continue to contribute to efforts like this at no cost to you. Thanks again for your help, and we hope to see you on the road as we continue our call for justice and accountability around the world.

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/528-european-tour-2011.html

 

Show "Richard Gage really is" by shure

Sheesh,

so why don't you arrange your own European tour, then?

Kevin O, That is a very valid, excellent point.

...and I am glad that shure posted that thread, because it reveals a very ugly attitude from a small group of people. There are other threads like this, and they go back years. http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7149

My take on shure's attitude...
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-06-08/senator-bob-graham-keys-kingdom#comment-250675

But Shure includes "live long

But Shure includes "live long and prosper," which counts for a lot in my book.

I think it helps when we can all look to things like the coverage of the comic book that's asking questions about 9/11 -- it was in USA Today, and it will likely reach a HUGE number of young people, and it is a piece of art.

We need to promote that far and wide.

OTOH, far fewer people will believe that vaccines are designed to depopulate the planet, and so those events will mainly be completely under the radar for the average person, and although it's upsetting for a lot of us that Richard is into that stuff, I think we can safely focus on things like promoting the USA Today coverage of the comic book and delete links as we see them, and not worry about it.

Muslim hijackers, or any hijackers -- remember, the average American has this etched into their mind, hardwired, and if you are claiming there were no hijackers, or they were some other people, you will effectively need a video to prove it to them, because they will reject it.

The hijackers are the comic book story -- for Americans, 9/11 is a story, and it has characters and a plot and a narrative, and when you try to tell them that the MAIN characters were wrong, they will reject that.

I personally think this issue does not help us. I think that there are about 1000 ways the hijackings could have happened, and claiming that hijackers could not possibly have been involved at all, or that Muslims couldn't possibly have done that, doesn't have STRONG evidence to support it, and so, muddies the waters and confuses people or worse, pulls in people who are sure that Israel did everything.

Remember, intelligence agencies coerce people to commit crimes routinely so they can claim they busted yet another dangerous terrorist plot.

This happens constantly. We can only imagine how often.

So that's a huge possible reality out there that doesn't work with the "no hijackers" and "no Muslims" claims, that makes a lot of sense -- that real Muslims who had a huge number of reasons to hate the US, were coerced (just like so many other people have been historically by intelligence agents) to commit a crime that involved them sacrificing their own lives, if they even knew that would happen at all.

You have to first completely refute this possibility if you are going to say that no hijackers were involved, and so far, in 10 years , I've seen no such evidence.

Does that mean there definitely were hijackers? No. It means that we do not have strong evidence that refutes the likely fact that human hijackers were aboard the planes, whether they knew the purpose of the trips, or not.

TomT,

you have to admit that posting a comment, and *later* saying 'oh, that wasn't me' is an irresponsible thing to do. Or else, must we now ask people if they are really saying what they say here?

As far as Richard Gage is concerned, he carries as much credibility as anyone in the movement. I can only wish him well on this trip.

You are damn right!! Richard Gage is a hero in my book

Richard Gage is a hero in my book.
He took a courageous step... ...made a hellaciously strong commitment towards truth and justice... ...embarking into an entirely unfamiliar arena.
The guy works his ass off trying to get the word out.
While he has a team of volunteers, some come and go... ...and there is only so much that can be managed with the resources available.
I have tremendous respect for Richard Gage, and I appreciate all those who volunteer and support "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth". I know that many people feel the same way.

Show "Heroic?" by Gareth

Gareth, If you are so frustrated, then you form your own group

Gareth,
You are correct that there are some Truthers who are also proponents of ideas which I (or others) do not share. This will always be the case with any sizable group (e.g. Christians, Muslims, Republicans, Democrats, Environmentalists, Vegans, dog lovers, etc.) Not all members of a large group will share the same ideas.

If you are so frustrated, then you go form your own group. Ooohh. That's right... you have a group who you share cutting and snide remarks, along with very strained criticisms for anyone in the Truth Movement who has been massively effective in their dissemination. (See shure's link)
So, use your group of curmudgeons and snarkies to pave your own path of support.
You have every right to form your own group just like Richard Gage has. He did it. So can you.
So go do it yourself.
Go line up your own speaking tour.
Go line up your own dissemination.

I support "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth". I support Richard Gage.

You don't. Okay. Got it.

Instead of whining your fault-finding on "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth", go play a role in making your own group, making your own speaking platform and dissemination.
Don't browbeat "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth", but browbeat yourself for being inept at forming your own effective 9/11 Truth group.

Show "Unfortunately most people are" by shure

My Criticisms Are Well Intentioned And Valid.

TomT, with respect, i'm pretty sure you don't know much about me so please stop pretending you do. Not to be rude or confrontational but you do not know me.

"You have every right to form your own group just like Richard Gage has"

Yeah i like the sound of this. What about "Architects & Engineers For 9/11 Truth And Justice"? The rationale behind it could be that seasoned and reliable activists/researchers/A&E's strongly feel that the original AE group is being led in the wrong direction with repeated associations with discrediting individuals, organisations and theories. Maybe they feel they have no choice because reasoned objections are ignored, trivialised and scorned. Obviously it would be essential to contact the existing signatories, explain what's going on and back up all criticisms with solid evidence. Perhaps even come up with a set of common sense principles that the new AE organisation would actually try to adhere to... like not hanging out with crackpot holocaust deniers who talk of alien invasions at the 2012 Olympics, and disgraced conman doctors. Appearing on late night conspiracy tv shows that 'investigate' 'shadow people' would also definitely be a no no.

What do you think? One problem with the upcoming 10th anniversary is that it doesn't allow us much time to fully realise the massive potential of this exciting new initiative. It might also be unnecessarily divisive given that i think all most people are asking is that "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" try reform its current counter-productive policy for accepting speaking/media engagements and perhaps have a board that actually does its job.

Seems like a good way to keep everyone relatively happy and reach that wider audience does it not? It also prevents providing easy ammunition for the debunkers and giving countless reasons for members of the public to dismiss this issue.

Gareth, ...Richard Gage on NBC TV News

Gareth, you draw up a list of acceptable venues for 9/11 Truth, of acceptable things (related to 9/11 and not related to 9/11) that people can believe.
Make your list of what is acceptable and not acceptable.
Make your list of things that 9/11 Truth advocates can not believe. (Both about 9/11 and also about other things such as: subjects, medicine, religions, political ideas, philosphies or life styles. People need to know what they can believe or not about any subject in order to be accepted by Gareth.)
Make your list of venues where 9/11 Truth can not be broached, and of venues where 9/11 Truth can be presented.
Make your rules.

Put your regulations, your standards, in print. Then you can start your own group to follow those standards.

NBC TV must be off your list.
For example: If Richard was on NBC TV News, then he must be colluding with the military-industrial complex war machine / propaganda source because of NBC's ownership and past record of deceptions.

It's really easy. Don't pretend it isn't.

Steer clear of conspiracy theory quackery and pseudoscience.

It's a basic common sense standard that can't fail.

Give a list of your 'notion' of unacceptable subjects or venues

You better define exactly what you mean by "conspiracy theory quackery and pseudoscience."
You need to make a list of Gareth's Rules. ...otherwise you are just a carper, an arbitrary judge.

Are you going to arbitrarily tell me what is "okay" for me to observe or believe?
Are you going to arbitrarily say that because of my observation, belief or viewpoint, that I should not participate with 9/11 Truth?

Vaccines?
Natural alternative health?
Flouride in the water?
Organic foods?
GM foods?
Pharmaceutical medications?
Water Dowsing?
Chemtrails?
Manmade Climate Change?

What about some experiments which I personally conducted? ...my observations?

I personally have tested with more than 80 people an experiment on water dowsing with two L shaped metal rods. They would walk towards a 5 gallon bucket of water (or a water source) with the L rods pointing straight out like pistols in each hand. The rods would cross when a person neared the bucket or water well or an area like unground piping. I even blindfolded about a dozen young school kids to test it. The only person it did not work on was a guy who had chemically burned, dry peeling hands.

Another personal experiment...
I conducted this air sampling at a University after seeing a news report from a town about 100 miles to the east. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI
I took air samples for a two week period when there were NO "contrails or chemtrails" in the sky. I tested for aluminum. No aluminum whatsoever. I waited... and then when I saw the grid checkerboard pattern / back-n-forth flight of expanding contrails-chemtrails in the sky, I again took samples for a two week period. I tested for aluminum. The aluminum content was extremely high.
This was my personal observation.

And anyone can do these tests.

Gareth,
So, make your list of what is acceptable and unacceptable.
Set your guidelines and organize your own group.

Pseudoscience

I'm happy with this definition:

"Pseudoscience is a claim, belief, or practice which is presented as scientific, but which does not adhere to a valid scientific method, lacks supporting evidence or plausibility, cannot be reliably tested, or otherwise lacks scientific status. Pseudoscience is often characterized by the use of vague, exaggerated or unprovable claims, an over-reliance on confirmation rather than rigorous attempts at refutation, a lack of openness to evaluation by other experts, and a general absence of systematic processes to rationally develop theories."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience

As for the KRSA news report that inspired your experiment, i'm afraid it has been proven to be misleading and false. I don't know of any evidence to support the existence of 'chemtrails' and i'd rather not derail this thread so, if you want, maybe we can discuss it further at this thread+at+truthaction.org if necessary?

What did you think of my "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and Justice" idea? Time for reform or something new?

Gareth, you believe a lot of "offical stories". Do the test.

Gareth, you believe a lot of "offical stories".
Don't be an Ivory Tower carper.
Do the experiments yourself.

Please try and rise above silly insults...

...and engage with what you brought up in the first place: starting another group.

What did you think of my "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and Justice" idea?

Reform or something new?

Gareth - Take a deep breath -

When you use expressions such as " an internationally disgraced fraudster doctor ", you need to slow down and patiently explain yourself.
Allegations such as "discredited" and "disgraced" have little meaning - of course the medical establishment has multi-billions wrapped up in vaccines and plenty of extra billions for propagandizing their point of view. You want to use a broad brush - like Victronics - it´s a shame Gage is "into that stuff" - you guys need to relax a little. We don't all agree on everything and certainly don't all share core ideology.
Getting back to vaccines though - check Schoenman´'s series on Taking Aim.´He´s not a conspiracy wing nut.

Dave

Shure linked to the truthaction.org+forum where you can read further but you're completely correct, i should have provided it here.

This is a good starting place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

And yeah, i listened to all of Schoenman's and Shone's vaccine shows. Interesting stuff.

Gareth

The wickipedia piece strikes me as a smear job. The medical industry is playing very dirty on this issue - accusing mothers of reckless indangerment, etc. the industry is counting on the fact that most people, myself included, have little clue about the scientific issues involved. They smeared Max Gerson in the same way - i forget what year -1950´s i believe - he came here to Mexico and cured thousands of people of cancer. The medical establishment/AMA/ACI refuse even to review the case files of those cured. THAT is pseudoscience my friend. Don´t be flomuxed by name calling that doesnt even rise to the level of ad mominem.

That's an empty assertion.

The Wikipedia article was just an entry level recommendation. There's the actual British Medical Council report. I also recommend Brian Deer's website. He won a British Press Award (Specialist Reporter of the Year) for his coverage of the Wakefield controversy.

http://briandeer.com

I am curious...

what Victoria and Frank think about shure's comment.

Care to share your viewpoints?

Thanks.

Personally I like Richard Gage and I hope AE911Truth continues to grow and flourish.

Show "Its not my comment. Its a" by shure

If it is not your comment, then why are you posting it?

(and without properly identifying the author here, who also happens to have an account here, so he could have posted it or something similar here if he wanted to)

Did you ask him if he wanted you to post it here?

As for the clear demolitions of the three WTC buildings being a liability, the only people it is a liability to are the perpetrators and those who don't understand the basic science needed to know that they were, in fact, demolitions; and thus feel uncomfortable about promoting CD (this can easily be resolved by simply reviewing basic physics, by those who care to).

[Every day I run into more people who know the buildings were demolished, so one way or another, that truth is getting out there.]

I'm not a big fan of mixing analysis of the 9/11 false flag with unrelated or "fringe" issues for a variety of reasons, most of them ably covered by Victronix below.

I'm also not a big fan of throwing people under buses. I think it much more useful to get on the bus and help guide it to better locations.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Show "I posted it here because it" by shure

The Moore Show

"Most shows are focused toward discussing crop circles, unexplained natural (or not-so-natural) phenomena, or Star Wars technology, suppressed news, the occult, remote viewing, hauntings, shadow people, psychic predictions, conspiracy theories, UFOs, crop circles, new science and science fiction literature, and just the plain strange subjects that main stream media won't cover."

http://themooreshow.co.uk/tv/about.php

"The Moore Show"

Thanks, removing the links to that one now.

I'm going to leave the graphic up as your comment is educational for people.

Moore Show probably has a huge audience...

like "Coast to Coast" made up of people from all walks of life but with open minds and likely mistrust of the PTB,

Like most of us.

Show "Small audience of people who lack critical thinking skills" by Gareth

Richard Gage knows what he is doing

every person who GETS IT makes it easier for the next one.

Agggghhhh. Say it aint

Agggghhhh. Say it aint so!

Its audience is largely people who lack critical thinking skills + pot smokers.

Who would bother messing with Devil Weed any way?

It is a gateway drug, has destroyed families, and ruined people's interests in botany. Pot smoking is the reason there are so may cavities in peoples teeth -when will they learn? Maybe a couple days behind bars will set them straight. Do you know the cavity-per-person ratio of California compared to say, Alabama? Whew!

Devil Weed is an obvious connection to the lack of critical-thinking out there, as you seem to be so aware of too. Obviously you never inhaled, like many of our respected leaders.

Its like Zombie-land with all these reefer-hippy-junkies in California.

Summer of love? Try summer of I don't remember. No wonder we can't get a budget passed....they are too busy passing the joints!

I thought Enslinger taught everyone right by now.....? Onward, with the war on pot-terror, onward.

Send them all to jail to be corrected in just systems of justice.

(Comedy.)((or not))

pot and the war in Vietnam

I've heard that a big reason for the crackdown on Marijuana in the 60s was that the young people using it were able with enhanced perception to see through the war propaganda and were protesting rather than enlisting.

In my opinion this is very likely true.

Weed helped turn public opinion against the war and helped to end it

I am compassionate to that

I am compassionate to that sentiment too Joe.

I hope to stay on topic, I just don't understand why Garerth would, of all things, include only pot-smoking as the correlation to a lack of critical thinking.

Is there a peer-reviewed journal on that Gareth, or some data, or do you just not like people who smoke cannabis?

critical thinking + pot smoking + questioning vaccines...

As someone else here has posted, if one wants to be purist about this we are going to have to set up a checklist of what peple may or may not talk about (and smoke!). Yes, it would be wonderful if all 911 questioners on every stage and platform were aware and disciplined and stuck to rational, core issues. In a perfect world maybe?

I am disappointed that the Irish leg of Gage's tour included some of the outer reaches of alternative discussion - but maybe that says more about the Irish than it says about Gage? ; )

The rest of his tour seems more ... rational : )

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's a lot of hyperbole about - "the whole movement needs to be shaken up and shut down"... etc.
I personally don't think that's necessary. We don't need thought police. We just need more people to go out there and talk rationally and calmly on the subject. Gage does so - he has my support thus far.

Bingo.

Bingo.

Show "Nor Cal Truth, Joe, Simple Truths" by Gareth

the "pot smokers" probably have better...

"critical thinking skills" than those that have not, will not or do not.

That is the point I was trying to make.

Gareth, Sorry if I got you

Gareth,

Sorry if I got you wrong, but it sure seems like you clearly were negatively associating cannabis to a lack of critical thinking. Furthermore, I don't understand why of all things, that was what you chose to highlight and write. Is there any data about your statement being true in the first place (the Moore show is made up of people who lack critical thinking skills + smoke pot), or was that just an opinion?

Back to the point of this thread:

What, in the future, would you like to see happen at these events?

I understand you don't want AE or Richard or Jones or Chandler to go to these events. I'm sure we could both agree that these events would continue without them, right?

So, in my opinion, if Richard or the reasonable and responsible participants of 9/11 justice aren't at these events, we may be doing ourselves a bad favor.

The stage would be open for the Reynolds and Woods like characters and misinformation; the media could REALLY use that against the movement in general as they have before, right?

With someone like Richard at these events, the media has very little options as far as a smear campaign. The TRUTH is on RICHARDS side, so please media, please, try to do a story on him!

Facts are facts, no matter where they are presented.

Shure, care to weigh in on

Shure, care to weigh in on this one?

I would like to know your thoughts...

Drugs are bad and so are

Drugs are bad and so are concon events.

Thats your response to my

Thats your response to my iteration? If you care to try again, I would like a thought-filled response to this:

What, in the future, would you like to see happen at these events?

I understand you don't want AE or Richard or Jones or Chandler to go to these events. I'm sure we could both agree that these events would continue without them, right?

So, in my opinion, if Richard or the reasonable and responsible participants of 9/11 justice aren't at these events, we may be doing ourselves a bad favor.

The stage would be open for the Reynolds and Woods like characters and misinformation; the media could REALLY use that against the movement in general as they have before, right?

With someone like Richard at these events, the media has very little options as far as a smear campaign. The TRUTH is on RICHARDS side, so please media, please, try to do a story on him!

Facts are facts, no matter where they are presented.

Ignorance is not a

It's the 'paranormal channel'

It's the 'paranormal channel' and they cover ufo's/shadow people/psychics/crop circles/hauntings etc I don't have any data but in the UK this sort of programming is synonymous with the kind of audience i've described. Isn't it the same in the States? Btw, i like pot, i'd never knock it.

Please let me clarify: i don't have a problem with AE911truth or Gage other than when they associate, seemingly as a matter of policy, with conspiracy garbage and pseudoscience. Furthermore i really don't think that's a controversial position to take.

I agree with what Victronix says:

"What concerns me, in general, whenever any person whose work is solid and credible, appears with people whose work is not, is that we likely create -- mainly -- a false credibility for those whose work is not credible, by association.

The consequence is then that we attract large numbers of people who are unable to think critically enough to reject baseless claims, and we risk growing an army of people who will then promote strong evidence in combination with nonsense claims to the public on an exponential scale around the world, and then that makes a lot of work for the rest of us to clean up."

I've been involved in 9/11 activism since 2006. I've witnessed with my own eyes the rapid growth, especially in the last 2 years, of an extremely damaging and divisive breed of highly conspiratorial thinking. It has to do with Alex Jones (someone i have never promoted) and a variety of other personalities including Ian Crane and David Icke. These people are making a LOT of money propagating anti-scientific, anti-environmental views and it's making mine and others work impossible. We simply do not have the resources to counter these people and their nonsense especially when Murdoch's Sky-TV is pumping it out on 2 satellite channels every single day.

Take Ian Crane, a former Chair of the UK 9/11 TM (what a joke!) When not talking about holocaust denial and alien invasions at the 2012 Olympics he has Transition Town Watch website (google it) and proudly denies both Peak Oil and anthropogenic climate change. The consequence being that it drives an unnecessary wedge between proponents of this cause and those who are concerned with the environment and energy scarcity issues. These people, like those in the peace movement, are extremely useful allies and in many cases very sympathetic to 9/11 information BUT because of Crane/Jones/Icke etc they are reluctant to associate with it and, even though i don't blame them, it's not something we can allow to continue if we want to get anywhere.

So that's why Gage sharing a stage with Crane is so disappointing. I'm sure at least on Richard's part it's not intentional but, like i said before, i have questions about a policy that allows such an occurence. We cannot afford to let this continue because otherwise we're all wasting our time. 1 step forward, 10 steps back.

Gareth,Thanks for your

Gareth,

Thanks for your enlightening response.

I assure you there is no "policy" to attend these types of events. It was well over 3 months ago that discussions began about touring with Jim Corr, who I think is allright - though I havn't dived into his history.

The event obvioulsly became much more than originally planned, but Richard is not planning the events for Ireland ,nor is AE.

Lets see what bad press happens from the Ireland tour (outside of 5 people on 9/11 Blogger) and crticize our mistakes - then praise our virtues.

I don't know if there is any data or evidence that this adds to 1 step back, let alone 10. I respect that that is how you feel, and you may be right - there is just no data.

Civil discussions (and love) are best for us all to move forward.

Thanks for your part.

Bad Press

It’s official: Wakefield joins the ranks of Truthers, New World Order conspiracists
http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/07/its-official-wakefield-joins-the-ranks-of-truthers-new-world-order-conspira...

This isn't just about bad press. It's about not getting press. I have friends that are journalists and i know for a fact that covering an AE911truth is tricky enough but when there's blatant nonsense and pseudoscience on the same bill there's simply no way they're going to stick their necks out. Again i don't blame them.

I'm not suggesting there is a 'policy' to attend such events rather a non-policy in regards to what AE911truth say no to.

Did we need data to realise Dr Judy/Fetzer etc were damaging?

It’s official: Wakefield

Gareth said:

It’s official: Wakefield joins the ranks of Truthers, New World Order conspiracists
http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/07/its-official-wakefield-jo...

This isn't just about bad press. It's about not getting press. I have friends that are journalists and i know for a fact that covering an AE911truth is tricky enough but when there's blatant nonsense and pseudoscience on the same bill there's simply no way they're going to stick their necks out. Again i don't blame them.

I sympathize with that, and it is a point to remember.

I'm not suggesting there is a 'policy' to attend such events rather a non-policy in regards to what AE911truth say no to.

Much better said, and I will try to bring this point up if I can.

Did we need data to realise Dr Judy/Fetzer etc were damaging?

No, just common sense and a brain. I would note that with Richard, the facts and evidence are on his side, where Fetzer/Judy/Killtown all share a lack of facts; therefore elliminating a need for data on developing philosophy.

Uncommon Sense

My point is that we didn't need data to realise Fetzer and co were damaging and likewise i don't believe we need it to know that associating AE911truth with garbage is also damaging.

"It was well over 3 months ago that discussions began about touring with Jim Corr, who I think is allright - though I havn't dived into his history."

Not good enough. A cursory glance at his website reveals his unscientific and anti-environmental views... these same views run rife through the entire Sovereign Independent tour. I'm not posting the following quote to patronize you but rather it's a good-spirited attempt to foster some recognition that we must listen to those who have experience of similar movements and take heed of their warnings:

"So I’m going to say this group, more than any other that I can think of in terms of a movement, is going to be infiltrated, is infiltrated and there are going to be all kinds of efforts to subvert your work, all kinds of efforts to corrupt your work and all kinds of efforts to discredit you. Please understand that and take it in the spirit in which it is being given because this is what will happen and probably is happening. So please... your work is too important, your mission is too precious. Be careful in every aspect of the work, make sure your allegations, your claims are well founded because if they're not you will be discredited." - Dr. William F. Pepper; June 2006 Source: YouTube (from 6m37sec)

Gareth, Again. thanks for

Gareth,

Again. thanks for civility.

I must piont out the fact that questioning man-made global warming political agendas does not mean you are "anti-environment." I can't stress that enough.

Lets stick to our focus: 9/11.

Thanks for the Pepper quote.

Ok...

but as it's important to my point about credibility i just want to clarify that, as well as (rightly) questioning the political agenda, Jim Corr actually denies anthropogenic global warming.

Back to our focus. 9/11.

Quality vs. Quantity...

silly me, I was under the impression quality is more important than quantity.

with quantity comes quality

and vice versa

response

Thanks for asking.

I think everyone should say how they feel and especially if they have concerns about things that might damage the movement.

I know the buildings were demolished, not collapsed, so no matter what charlatans any demolition advocate may appear in public with, that will never impact my support for the truth that I personally understand about how the towers were destroyed.

I feel that both Richard and Steve have done tremendous work to move our work forward, made huge sacrifices, and all of that has paid off.

What concerns me, in general, whenever any person whose work is solid and credible, appears with people whose work is not, is that we likely create -- mainly -- a false credibility for those whose work is not credible, by association.

The consequence is then that we attract large numbers of people who are unable to think critically enough to reject baseless claims, and we risk growing an army of people who will then promote strong evidence in combination with nonsense claims to the public on an exponential scale around the world, and then that makes a lot of work for the rest of us to clean up.

While I wish that Richard would not appear at events by groups claiming there are plans to reduce the population with vaccines, we also don't have a crystal ball and cannot say for sure that Richard's choices definitely cause problems for the movement or whether they actually do grow the movement in a meaningful way, regardless of credibility of those speaking with him. While there are risks to appearing with people who advocate claims that average people may reject, there is not hard evidence that it leads to problems.

But we, as a movement, are extremely lucky that an AIA registered architect was willing to make exposing the truth his daily work. Just as we are extremely lucky that a physics expert was willing to teach his students the speed that WTC7 came down, and write a paper about that that changed history.

We're all entitled to our opinion -- my interest is that we also treat each other with respect, as people, and don't make assumptions one way or the other about people's intentions and motives, given that none of us has ESP or crystal balls.

That said, in some cases, I think we're entitled to speak out.

In this case, I don't find that necessary. Instead, I simply edited out the dates and websites of the events which are problematic, and promoted the ones which are not.

Thank you for your very

Thank you for your very thorough comment. I was not posting in any way to attack the destruction of the towers. I was trying to make a point about credibility, something that I have come to realise over the years is very important. My problem is with the choices Richard has made and continues to make when it comes to who he is willing to "stand beside" so to speak. Like I said, by observation, it seems to be getting worse.

I am very thankful to people like Jim Hoffman, Frank Legge, David Chandler and others who have did so much for the cause. I am thankful to Richard Gage too, although, as the main public spokesperson, he needs to also be willing to refuse to participate in certain events to uphold the credibility of the serious issue he represents. If his taste for celebrity outweighs his responsibility for truth and credibility, it may be time to pass on the responsibility to someone else. IMHO.

Agreed. That would be the

Agreed. That would be the friendly way to say exactly the same thing I did.

But I'm not feeling friendly about prominent participants undermining the hard work of others.

Don't shoot the messenger

Yeah, that comment would be mine and I stand by it. It is the nature of this movement that past contributions don't excuse present misbehavior. I think Gage, Jones, and Griffin have all done great things for this movement. Now I think they are all liabilities as each now promotes crap or associates with crap.

Are you able to work out that contradiction in your head? Past contribution isn't a free pass.

Gage is now attending more than one event where he will share the stage with bigots, charlatans, and conspiracy hobbyists. And I'll have to respectfully disagree with Vic that we don't know whether this hurts the movement or not. I think it very clearly does as no serious academic that wanted to be taken seriously in any field would do such a thing.

You can go ahead and shoot the messenger here, but Gage attending these events directly supports the 'big tent' approach which, historically speaking, runs directly counter to constructive movement strategy.

I still support CD research. But I'm afraid that the whole topic is now being tainted by association with crap.

Your definition of crap and

Your definition of crap and your perception of association to it, is yours to define.

You obviously care very much about 9/11, which is great.

Please see my comment below about Damage Control, and the benefit of Richard or someone else who is reasonable being at these events.

When someone is insulting

When someone is insulting Richard Gage, they are also inulting the work of over 40 volunteers that discuss all of these events on a regular basis; working hard to make them happen.

The flip side of not having Richard go to events that some think are not worth it: Damage Control.

I know people who are disappointed with Richard aren't going to be going to these events to make sure 9/11 is portrayed reasonably and responsibly.

Would it be better to let the Judy Woods of 9/11 take the stage?

I understand the concerns, I really do, but there are benefits too.

I'm not insulting Richard or

I'm not insulting Richard or any volunteers, I'm questioning the motivation of his decisions. Decisions which may bring more bigfoot researchers and alien abductees to the issues of 9/11, but deter credible people from speaking out.

Volunteer on the team, or

Volunteer on the team, or dont theorize about people's motivations. Period.

It is tasteless, irresponsible and not a solid form of improving our situation as a whole.

And because you don't volunteer, you would not know if your own statement is true:

"I'm not insulting Richard or any volunteers"

The London talk

at the RIBA is the only one on the tour I am trying to publicise among local architects and engineers.

Thanks

RIBA is important, even just to be there. It would appear to be the UK version of the AIA here in the US.

Monday June 20th 2011, 7pm
The Royal Institute of British Architects
66 Portland Place
London W1

"The Royal Institute of British Architects champions better buildings, communities and the environment through architecture and our members."
http://www.architecture.com/

"this does not imply RIBA has taken a position, only that a room has been rented for the day, but still it’s nice" (from a random blog promoting the event).

The point is that if local architects/engineers can be engaged, they will feel more comfortable coming to the location of a professional organization when considering a radical sounding claim, rather than a local theater, for example.

AE911truth (alongside Steven

AE911truth (alongside Steven Jones and team) is perhaps the most visible and solid of all the 911 truth organizations, and it garners the most respect amongst the mainstream media, since their research and findings are based on real, hard, analytic, verifiable, peer reviewed *EVIDENCE*, and as such, it is unrealistic or more to the point, infantile, no matter how much one supports the official version, to regard their work as "conspiracy theorizing". Mainstream acceptance of solid evidence is the only realistic path for finally getting closure on this almost 10 year old, horrific, affair.

AE911Truth and Richard Gage have raised no conspiracy theories. They have blamed nobody. What they are after, as we all are, is a real *INVESTIGATION*, with full subpoena power, no holds barred, nobody exempt from rigorous cross examination, in court, under oath.

If, as the conclusion of such an inquiry, it is found that the legendary organization known as "al Qaeda" was responsible for every aspect of 9/11, including the prior rigging of three major NYC buildings with military grade explosives, over-coming WTC security, being able to stand down the US air defenses for 2 hours, organize 20 drills and exercises exactly coinciding with the timeline of the attacks, change the scramble/intercept protocols beforehand to facilitate the attack, and more, then we can rest assured that A LARGE NUMBER of US government and military officials will be going to jail for a very long time for accessory before and after the fact to the murder of some 3000 people, injuring and sickening thousands more, destroying at least two, and maybe as many as four) jet airliners, and the total destruction of several blocks of lower Manhattan. That is as GOOD as it can realistically get, as regards potential culpability... the possible outcome of the type of investigation that the events of 9/11 mandate could be far WORSE than that.

Reading Shure's commentary, and not just this one but several others, I get the impression that this individual is against the idea of finding out what happened that day. Anyone who actively hijacks the most credible messengers, or allows others to speak through them towards that effect, is guilty of helping to harbor the real terrorists. They, or some of them at least, are still out there, and will strike again, at a time of their choosing.

Credibility Issue

I think the issue at hand is whether AE911truth and Gage should be intentionally, and seemingly as a matter of policy, associating with the furthest fringes of the conspiracy theory circuit. Many of us feel very passionately, based on historical evidence, our own direct experiences and basic common sense, that it's far from the right strategy and that it does more harm than good and instead AE911truth should be trying to build credibility and constructive alliances with the scientific community and beyond and working on mainstream coverage. That is after all what AE911truth claim to be about.

When i think of the 9/11 victims families and the millions who've died in the subsequent 9/11 wars and then the quacks,+frauds+and+conmen that Richard Gage has decided to appear with on this tour i feel pretty angry. Others should too.

Get used to us speaking up because the more the principles we advocate are ignored the louder we're going to get.

http://www.truthmove.org/content/2008-declaration

Btw 'bloggulator' it could easily be argued that by promoting the discredited Killtown and Fetzer's 'Scholars' group on your website that you're "guilty of helping to harbor the real terrorists" yourself.

Show "Gareth" by zombie bill hicks
Show "Maybe truthers can't cope with reality" by zombie bill hicks

Gareth, with all due respect,

what you say here:

Quote: I think the issue at hand is whether AE911truth and Gage should be intentionally, and seemingly as a matter of policy, associating with the furthest fringes of the conspiracy theory circuit. Many of us feel very passionately, based on historical evidence, our own direct experiences and basic common sense, that it's far from the right strategy and that it does more harm than good

is exactly what I thought of you and the kinds of actions that you and some others do.

Was I right? Who's to say? You would tell me I've misunderstood you and am mistaken. My own opinion is that too many ad-hoc, generic 9/11 "Truth" demonstrations make the issue look amateur and lead to weariness and issue deafness for our intended audience, while doing little to spread any real information.

You also say: ...and instead AE911truth should be trying to build credibility and constructive alliances with the scientific community and beyond and working on mainstream coverage.

What do you think AETruth has been doing the last four years? Who else has achieved this level of recognition and mainstream media acceptance? With all due respect, not you.

While I don't seek this information out, I am not aware of Gage's involvement with any fringe conspiracy theories. He spoke at a CT event in Dublin, but I don't see the event itself mentioned on the AETruth website (nor can I find any other information on it, frankly.) When I hear what sounds like an attempt to defame, I am immediately suspicious of both the information and the source. Until Gage starts including links to these other groups or individuals on the AETruth website or on some personal page of his, I would question this information.

It is to be expected that criticisms of Gage will arise from time to time. But his contribution to the cause, his organization of credible opposition and his ability to push 9/11 inquiry into mainstream awareness has been immense, possibly unparalleled (although many honorable mentions are obviously deserved here, eg: IC911 and others.)

jnelson

"is exactly what I thought of you and the kinds of actions that you and some others do."

Can you be more specific?

"What do you think AETruth has been doing the last four years?"

We're talking about what's going on now. As Julian pointed out.. "It is the nature of this movement that past contributions don't excuse present misbehavior."

"Until Gage starts including links to these other groups or individuals on the AETruth website"

The article written by Eli Raka covering the Euro tour, which is on the front page of AE911truth.org, features links to the following sites...

- Laura Knight Jadczyk (promotes all manner of weirdness eg she communicates with aliens through a ouija board, her ex husband was a reptilian+zombie+replacement, the planet is run by hyperdimensional beings etc)
- The Moore Show (conspiracy tv show that covers psychics, crop circles, shadow people, ufo's etc)
- The Sovereign Independent (promote 'chemtrails' climate change is a hoax and other fringe theories.)

"I am not aware of Gage's involvement with any fringe conspiracy theories."

Ok, here's some involvement...

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44383#44383

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44394#44394

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44643#44643

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44651#44651

http://911blogger.com/news/2011-06-16/ae911truth-returns-europe-ten-city-tour-shatter-911-myth-explosive-evidence#comment-...

http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/07/its-official-wakefield-joins-the-ranks-of-truthers-new-world-order-conspira...

Gareth, I agree that having

Gareth,

I agree that having those links on our (AE) website is bad....

I have begun conversations to alert the proper individuals at AE. Lets see what happens...

Thanks.

There's only one link that

There's only one link that might be questionable.

Here's the page that Gareth refers to:

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/528-european-tour-2011.html

No mention of Laura Knight Jadczyk or any other allegedly kooky person, unless Jim Corr is considered kooky. The Moore Show -- a show about conspiracies and the paranormal. This one doesn't look any more fringe than any of the others that have given 9/11 truth air time. Sovereign Independent is the only link that might raise some eyebrows.

The rest of Gareth's links are to the truthaction forum, a forum which seems to have taken an anti-Gage position.

Useless

"There's only one link that might be questionable."

Evidently not because a 911blogger moderator removed ALL of the links from the article on this site.

"The rest of Gareth's links are to the truthaction forum, a forum which seems to have taken an anti-Gage position."

I linked to 911blogger and the PLoS blog as well. Scroll up. Do you see?

You said you'd be concerned if AE911truth were linking to and associating with fringe conspiracy theories, so i took the time and effort to provide evidence for you that this is indeed the case.

Your response? Ignore all of it and play down and mischaracterize people's obvious alarm and concern over this issue as simply "anti-Gage".

I guess our discussion is over.

Gareth,Jadcyzk link is gone

Gareth,

Jadcyzk link is gone at AE.

http://ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/528-european-tour-2011.html

Among many responses to my email:

"Removed the link to the Jadczyk page. I included it originally because it is such a devastating rebuttal to Seffen."

I was also asked to help speak-up when these questionable events come along, and there is a chance for Richard to speak: I will.

Shure, Jon Gold and Zombie Bill Hicks can hopefully sleep a little-bit better tonight.

You should not need to start another group, I hope.

Show ""Reading Shure's commentary," by shure

Shure stated:

wtcdemolition, I'm sure most here are familiar with... which leads us to among others, "casseia" who connects to (Portland, Fetzer, Barrett, Killtown). She also happens to be friends with "Leftwright" who tried to reinstate certain members of wtcdemolition here at 911Blogger.

Your evidence of my relationship with "casseia" is what, exactly?

FTR - I would characterize my relationship with her (a person who I have actually met twice, btw) as barely acquainted.

Funny how some folks never get tired of the old "guilt by association" game.

sigh

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

THANK YOU MR. GAGE ! ! !

And please keep up the excellent work.

It would be wonderful indeed if your presentation could be made exclusively in “respectable” quarters. But we are not living in that perfect world. And until NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, CNN and XYZ open their forums to the evidence you bring to bear, I realize that under the circumstances you have to make use of whatever channels you can find to get the TRUTH out to the masses.

I trust you will not be discouraged by the criticisms of those whose work on behalf of 9/11 Truth does not even register on the scale by which your efforts are rightly measured.

I also acknowledge with gratitude that you have sacrificed more than most us—your marriage, your career, your lifestyle. But sir, after we have won through to absolute victory—when we obtain the genuine investigation that you call for and the truth is laid bare before the world—be assured that your name will rank among those that children will be brought up to revere.

And I don't for a minute believe that this is even your motivation. I believe you are a true Patriot, one of the few remaining in the tradition of 1776 and 1798. I believe that your motivation is simply and plainly THE TRUTH. May all of us in this movement prove worthy of the standard that your ACTIONS, as well as your SPEECH, have exemplified!

Cambridge & RIBA

Cambridge University.... Royal Institute of British Architects. Does anyone have a problem with these 2 prestigious venues?

Photobucket

Cambridge and RIBA

As I posted above, this part of the tour looks good and I wish Gage well.

The fact that the Irish leg of the tour included a more alternative platform perhaps says more about the Irish than it says about Gage?

- - - with affectionate greetings to my Irish friends :)