Howard Zinn confronted by 9/11 truth activist's in Montreal

After viewing the disappointing and disrespectful comments made by Howard Zinn on 09/10/08 in Colorado, responding to a request for help in spreading 9/11 awareness, Howard Zinn stated that he does not care about criminal accountability for the crimes of 09/11/01, because it is in the past. So we decided to attend his recent lecture at UQAM university to spread 9/11 truth, and welcome him to Montreal on behalf of the 9/11 victims, family members and the selfless 1st responders, for whom this attack will NEVER be in the past.



Well, I disagree, Mr. Zinn. Exposing the enablers, mechanisms and perpetrators of 9/11 is crucial. Promoting the investigations of independent research into the murder of JFK is valuable. This is real history, not the cover-up conducted by the Warren Commission and the 9/11 Commission.

"He who controls the past, controls the future."

The CIA Act of 1949 was Orwell's vision made law in the US.

The National Security State is an edifice built of lies. When its occupants cease to believe them, it cannot stand.

"The road to fascism is paved with liberal bricks." - Mort Sahl

“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson

Coward Zinn.

Coward Zinn.

So this is an otherwise great Historian who selectively doesn’t care about the past? That’s some serious Orwellian double-think.

Zinn Ignores U.S. History

Zinn knows perfectly well that after the Civil War, there were court martials for various reasons including for failure to do one's duty. After 9/11, there wasn't one court martial even for failure to protect the country - which points to U.S. complicity or worse. Zinn can't pretend he didn't know the proper military procedure that wasn't followed after 9/11 - so he's a phony.

Zinn waste a lot of words with his explanation...

it would be much simpler to say, "I'm a cowarldly fraud."

Or just change his name to

Or just change his name to "Coward Zinn", he's only got to drop the H.

I agree completely

These type of men are just hypocrites and cowards.

In the same class as Chomsky.

The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Good job...

I liked your statement about Zinn's standing as a historian, and his statement about 9/11 being in the past. You would think a historian would want to get an accurate account of history.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Well, well, well, Dr. Zinn has made his "clarification"

Thank you so much Montreal 9/11 truth, merci beaucoup!

Hopefully the next person to question him will ask him if he is familiar with Peter Dale Scott's concept of the "deep state' and ask him how one confronts this deep state without investigating and exposing the events they manufacture to maintain the endless world war they use to control humanity.

I'm glad I never idolized Zinn the way I did Chomsky or I'd feel really ill about now.

I don't get it, do these "intellectuals" get an extra dose of fluoride or something?

Simple pathetic.

Dr. Zinn undoubtedly schmoozes with the Democratic elites and truly believes that the neocons are the real "bad guys", either that or he's a hell of a good actor.

I'm never paying full retail for any of his books, that's for sure.

When the people lead, the "leaders" will finally know where they belong (at the back of the parade with the brooms).

Edit: It occurs to me that we may be seeing the Obama era talking point on 9/11, "that was the past, the neocons are gone now, we have to look forward". (they better not try to pat me on the head or they'll get an earful!)

Thanks again Montreal, great job!

The truth shall set us free, but only if we have the courage to seek it.

Love is the only way forward, but never forget those who turned their back on their brothers and sisters when it really mattered. Forgive their weakness, but do not forget.

Yes, something is rotten with this rush to "forgive and forget"

"It occurs to me that we may be seeing the Obama era talking point on 9/11, 'that was the past, the neocons are gone now, we have to look forward'"

It is precisely because Americans were persuaded to "look forward" from JFK that 9/11 was possible.

"Once the neo-fascists became bold enough to slay the President on the street, they showed their hand. They showed how arrogant they had become. Now it's a question of symptom. That crime was a national symptom. If we can turn our back on that, we will pay a terrible price." - Mort Sahl

Don't fall for it again.

“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson

the audience

did you here their reactions??what a bunch of fucked up disgusting cunts.Only a few cheered the 911 questioners statement.

Clearly, the 9/11 truth movement's persistence is annoying

many unthinking "liberals" and that's a very good thing, imo.

It also demonstrates that we need to do a better job of educating and showing the relevance of 9/11 truth to the issues they care most about, war and the economy.

I think it was also the usual annoyance of someone using Q&A to make a very long point, which we've all experienced.

First we annoy you, then you let us educate you, then you join us, then we win.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

I'm annoyed! I am really ANNOYED! count me in.

Yeah Yeah Yeah , Blah Blah Blah, So he doesn't think what really happened on 911 is the most important question we can ask? Well what is he saying, it's not in the top ten? It's not on the radar screen at all? Then what is the most important question we can be asking? Give me your top ten Sir: Me thinks ye is a coward. That's OK the world is full of cowards. But don't think you can get me to buy your books or your opinions and I suggest you stop touring, because we are not going away! And to many of us YES, What really happened on 911 is the most important question we can ask. Keep your post at the left gate soldier, lest you want to join the real civilians out here!

Zinn's disappointing recoil from truth

Someone should ask Zinn why he endorsed David Ray Griffin's books if he thinks the evidence 9-11 was an inside job doesn't matter. Has he changed his mind about this? If so, why? because his current position seems inconsistent with those endorsements.

Zinn accuses 9-11 Skeptics of wanting him and others to "drop everything" and make 9-11 Truth the only issue they work on. I have been active in the 9-11 Truth Movement for years, and also gone to marches against the war in Iraq, and known many others who work in the peace movement and 9-11 Truth movement. So I don't know who are these "fanatics" he is talking about, who only work on that one issue. The real fanatics are people like himself who reflexively refuse to talk about the problems with the official story, who suffer from "conspiracy phobia."

The more important question is, Why do people like Zinn NEVER talk about the huge amount of empirical evidence indicating that the official story of what happened cannot possibly be true? Why does he endorse books by stalwart researchers like Griffin and then heap contempt on those who read them, and, by implication, on Griffin himself? And it is contempt he is heaping on us, isn't it? To call us "fanatics" is tantamount to calling us "conspiracy theorists." We might expect such treatment from a corporate drone like Dan Rather or Brian Williams....but Howard Zinn?

investigating 911

Georges Santayana said: "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it." I would think an historian of Zinn's renown could not possibly disagree with Santayana on this point.

I also believe that it is the very purpose of 'history' to make sense of the past that futures may be 'better' by whatever standard.

UNLESS 911 is fully investigated and, as was the case at Nuremberg, the GUILTY ARE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE, nothing will have been learned. Failing or refusing to fully investigate 911 is not merely a guarantee that it will happen again, it is an INVITATION to would be tyrants.

Unless 911 is fully investigated, it will remain impossible to direct, co-ordinate or utilize the resources of the state in pursuit of better aims: JUSTICE and the rule of law. Unless those concepts are held inviolate, the more pragmatic aims of state --a viable economy and the maintenance of infrastructure --are simply meaningless.

I respectfully challenge Mr. Zinn to debate me on these points. In closing, I can think of no justification for delaying by a single day the complete investigation of this horrible crime against the people. It is no cliche that: 'Justice delayed IS justice denied".

well put

"it is the very purpose of 'history' to make sense of the past that futures may be 'better' by whatever standard"


“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson

Note Zinn's wording

"David Ray Griffin has done admirable and painstaking research in reviewing the mysteries surrounding the 9-11 attacks. It is the most persuasive argument I have seen for further investigation of the Bush administration's relationship to that historic and troubling event."
- Howard Zinn

"Bush administration's relationship". The wolf is gone. The "good guys" are back in power. You can relax now.

“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson

The audience

Apparently most in his audience are also satisfied with not knowing what happened on 9/11. No big issue who killed 3000 Americans and has given the basis for wars killing more than a million!

Many of those applauding

Many of those applauding people probably think the 911 commission report and popular mechanics fully answered all concerns.

Another Question.

We should ask him what he thinks of the Anthrax case and that unsolved crime. Is he satisfied with that as well. Or unconcerned about that as well.

I'm really starting to believe...

...that the bad guys are "getting to" certain people like Zinn, with either death threats, large sums of money, or whatever else. In my opinion, you don't go from endorsing a DRG book with a back-cover blurb, to this, unless you've been heavily pressured.

And indeed, the disgusting "debunkers" are claiming a victory:

The Good Gatekeeping Seal of Approval

The simplest explanation for Zinn's backpedaling -- remember, he's old, with not much to lose -- is that he was never with us in the first place.

Like Chomsky, he's a CIA asset. But, much more than Chomsky, he works the grassroots left -- those outside the Left Branch Division of the Mockingbird Media, lacking its Good Gatekeeping Seal of Approval.

I expect it works something like this:

People who regularly write for or speak on behalf of Mockingbird's Left Division are usually kept on a fairly short leash, routinely briefed about what lines they may -- and often must -- transmit to the consumers of the Official Left Media. Chomsky is front and center of this group, and one of his central assignments at least since the JFK assassination has been to dissuade leftists from conspiracy theories that, held widely and deeply, would actually negatively impact the CIA and the power elites. (To enhance their credibility, Chomsky and his colleagues occasionally reveal a conspiracy when doing so would have no substantive political impact.)

But the CIA knows that there will always be those on the fringes of the left and right who push the boundaries beyond the dictates of the controlled media. So, as ongoing contingency resources, they have in place their Howard Zinns, Michael Parentis, and the like on hand.

Their job is to communicate in a more freewheeling manner, making friends and alliances wherever they may find them. They may even take positions seriously opposed to what the CIA etc. wants people to think -- all the better to discredit, demoralize, and otherwise undermine the real, independent threat to CIA power when push comes to shove.

It's like that expression (popularized in _The X-Files_, but long predating the show): "Hold your friends close, and your enemies closer."

I suspect Zinn had the nod -- perhaps was even encouraged -- to gently endorse the 9/11 truth movement early on, before it had many adherents. That way, it was hoped, his withdrawal of support at some strategically timed later point would help to seriously weaken the movement.

Indeed, Zinn's comments now may indicate that Zinn's secret bosses are getting very nervous, such that they're willing to sacrifice one of their last resources held in reserve.

Note too how, with the rapid rise of online-based grassroots networking in the last decade, how little difference it makes anymore that a Big Book writer like Zinn should stab his intended audience in the back.

excellent analyis as always McFrandy

Yep, these guys are bought and paid for. Not that its necessarily done willingly -- as pointed out elsewhere, the PTB have no compunctions about threatening wives, children, grand-children.

We should expect that some of our favorite heros will one day be threatened just this way. In this high-stakes game we're playing, you can''t trust anyone absolutely. You never know when they will be made an offer they couldn't refuse. David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, Alex Jones -- these men are very brave. I hope the day never comes when we see them "retract" their support for 911 truth. If that happens, we will know somebody got to them.

Maybe, just maybe, the following comment is meant ironically:

So, Michael Parenti is a CIA asset? Who would have thought that, considering his long track record of attacking left gatekeepers, speaking against what he calls "conspiracyphobia on the left" and talking extensively about concrete conspiracies like the JFK assassination? Not to mention his many public acknowledgments of 9/11 truth and private admissions that "it could well have been an inside job."

If you ask me, the Agency should fire this guy, because he's really doing a poor job at "gatekeeping." Why is the taxpayers' money being wasted on someone who's clearly not up to his job? But you know what they say, the CIA moves in mysterious ways.

"We'll never know the truth about 9/11"

Not if we follow your lead Mr. Zinn, and don't bother to investigate!

Kudos to that second questioner who had the balls to stand there and ask despite a hostile audience. It takes courage to stand for what you know to be true despite a big crowd of people mocking you.

Remember, Jesus was mocked too.

Add Zinn to the long, sad, list of leftist gatekeepers like Naomi Wolf, Naomi Klein, Alexander Cockburn, Matt Rothschild, Robert Scheer, Arianna Huffington, Noam Chomsky, and on and on. Their passion for change is a mere speck compared to their interest in maintaining their current position and status.

Howard Zinn, you're a coward.

Even if you recoiled from the truth on account of death threats, you should have continued to risk your life. The good of the many outweighs the good of the one.

Kameelyun, you've hit upon the core of the issue

When I look at the long list of people who have been silenced with death threats, and then were killed anyway--or died anyway, as we all will--it seems that our current state of dismal affairs has come about only because each individual person valued their own individual life more than they do truth, justice, and the good of the entire planet.

I am here to say that my own individual life is NOT more important than all those things. They may eventually killl me for the stands I take, and it will have been worth it.

But hear it now: I will never, never commit suicide. No matter how persuasive any "suicide note" may be.

Zinn has two children, Myla and Jeff, and five grandchildren.

What would you do if your children and/or grandchildren were threatened?

I have two daughters and this is something I consider more often than I care to admit.

Yes, we're angry at Dr. Zinn for his duplicity and hypocrisy, but have some empathy for the position he may be in.

Life is not always as simple as it appears.

We have much to do, brothers and sisters, let's move on to more important work.

The truth shall set us free.

Love is the only way forward, and that includes loving ones adversaries.

(you don't have to like them, though)

Yup, I hear ya.

I'm speaking as someone who's single with no kids. It is indeed MUCH MUCH easier to be a political activist when you have this on your side, especially when the subject of the activism is 911 truth. Since I don't have kids I can only imagine what it must feel like to be in that position if indeed a threat did take place.

I would move them out of the country

And then speak the truth. The fate of humanity hangs in the balance.

I would make my initial speech to the largest possible audience and specifically say what and who were threatened. Then when I die, or they die, the gig is up.


Jones has kids.

So does Richard Gage.

Many Outspoken 911 Truthers have kids.

We are kidding ourselves using this excuse.

Courage in the face of Treason will Protect the lives and Futures of ALL our kids.

We ARE doing this for Posterity.

The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

I think everyone should be allowed to decide for themself

whether they choose to risk the lives of their children and/or other loved ones.

Just as everyone has their own relationship with "god".

I would not label it an excuse, it is, rather, an explanation.

Be well.


I may have used the wrong term.

We should not put our children or other people's children in the frontlines.

However, we still have to face the fact that their futures and their very lives are at stake based on the success or failure of 911 Truth.

The fact that people like Alex Jones, Richard Gage and so many others who have kids and have gone as far as they have without their kids being harmed is proof of one thing.

Someone is protecting them.

We are not alone in our battle or struggles. Some risk is involved in all that we do. Where the enemy sows Fear, we sow Courage and Faith.

Where the enemy sows Hatred, we sow Love and if necessary Tough Love.

Let us never underestimate the enemy, and let us never Overestimate the enemy's resources and capabilites.

Let us ALSO Never underestimate what we CAN do if and when we set our Hearts and Minds to it.

To this question.....

WE - The 911 Truth Movement, both in the United States and around the World - are its Answer.

The Revolutionary War was not fought by childless men. We are ALL Children of the Truth.

And We are to Protect and Serve. There might yet come a time for Great Sacrifice. Let us have the Wisdom, the Courage and Fortitude to do the Right Things for the Right Reasons and at the Right Time.

I agree totally we should not put the little ones at risk.

Personally I think Howard Zinn is being bankrolled in his gatekeeping operations. IF his family was really threatened. he could have still diplomatically & simply answered saying a new investigation might be warranted. Short and simple and no stirring of the hornet's nest. Even some Bush-leaning Republicans have indicated the need for new 911 investigations. Keane-Hamilton themselves admit that they were lied to and the 911 Commission was basically set up to fail.

Nobody in the 911 Truth movement is asking Howard Zinn, of all people, to spearhead a news investigation - considering we have so many other people already doing it. How much risk does he face if he says a few sympathethic words supporting family members asking for a new investigation?

Are his kids going to be killed for that?

Its more like Uncle $am doing the pursuasion here I think. Zinn may be a favorite nephew on the payroll.

I love to see people make money. But not like this.

Its time for the Bank of We The People, use the Currency of the Constitution and turn the tables on situations like this.

The only authority the enemy has is the one we surrender to.

We the People have the Final Say.

The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

It's not just about having

It's not just about having kids or not, it's that people are each different in what they can cope with and what their fears and hopes are. We all feel weak at times in hoping for something to fix everything -- look at how many on here were screaming for people to support Ron Paul even though it was obvious how he would sell us out at the drop of an MSM hat? We are all human. Calling a person like Zinn a coward is pathetic to me -- he is a hero in many ways but he has a big shortfall. That's not a coward. That's a human being with limits, like all of us.

Instead of calling people names, we should be discussing the best strategy to deal with well known intellectuals who reverse positions or reject the efforts out of hand. Punishing them, attacking them, name-calling -- is that something ANY of you would respond to???

A lot of these left intellectuals fail in the same way on Israel as they do on 9/11, but calling them names isn't the way to solve this.

I had this experience in person with Tariq Ali, standing outside an auditorium after a talk, and luckily a very patient and careful friend of mine was with me and here's what he did. He went step by step through the most obvious historical false flags, listing them in order, and asked if he didn't agree that those involved cover-ups to go to war. Tariq Ali could not deny that it was obvious. So my friend confirmed, "So you do agree that cover-ups are part of history in the push to start war?" He agreed. Then he asked if it were not impossible to consider that 9/11 could have been a similar cover-up, "Would you not agree that it's possible?" He had to agree. And so forth. He was unaware of many of the details of the events that are shocking to people, i.e., the time that elapsed before the Pentagon was hit with no military response.

When we parted, he was far more open accepting, and said that yes, he could see how it's wrong to call people thinking 9/11 was an inside job "Nuts" as he had on a radio interview that day, and he had to agree, it could have been a cover-up.

Granted, this wasn't while he was at a mic -- personally I'm not sure how helpful it is to try to SHAME people into a position while the audience is cheering them on against the shamer. This discussion / debate was genuine and real, and it worked. I think this is a better way.

But . . .

Let's think a bit. Be there method in his apparent madness?

This is by far one of the

This is by far one of the best confrontations I've seen lately from a 9/11 truth group, Audio Video , good questions to the point! Excellent work as always Montreal!

I understand first hand the frustrations most of us have when the Howard Zinn's and the Noam Chomsky's on our planet who are not willing to make the crimes of 9/11 a priority. They do have their own concerns and issues that out weigh 9/11 in their be it! Lets respect that ...and move on....

In Canada this past Wednesday we had a 3 hour discussion via web cast with 4 highly respected intellectuals... credentials equal to or if not better than Mr Zinn and Mr Chomsky

Graeme MacQueen, John McMurtry, Michael Keefer and the newest addition to the 9/11 truth movement Anthony J. Hall...all willing to put 9/11 on a high priority . I would love to see some positive confrontations YOUTUBED and distributed on the WEB with these kinds of academia, law enforcement, scientific , historian, engineers all through out the 911 truth movement who are willing to high-light and share eagerly the important issues of 9/11.

I want to respond to Mr Zinn's comments that there are more important issues to cover beside 9/11
and that some in our movement are fanatical about 9/11...I call it passion by choice of those not willing to rest until those responsible for the crimes of 9/11 are exposed publicly and justice is served.

Mr Zinn has is missions and we have ours and to each his own...Let the Zinn's and Chomsky's be what they are and do as they believe respectfully.. and lets move onto those who's priorities are 9/11 truth and justice, and share their ideas with the world... Like youtube such as this example.

Mr Zinn and Mr Chomsky can catch up later....
when it becomes world public opinion that "YES INDEED! 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB"!

good balanced response, Richard

Zinn and Chomsky can indeed catch up later. The facts speak for themselves, and while the movement would benefit from their support, the movement certainly doesn't rely on it. The facts speak for themselves.

Agreed, let's move on.

With honest, forthright, finely honed arguments the movement needs to keep wearing away at the stones that try to contain the flood of our message. Let Zinn and Chomsky alone. We don't need them.


Our people are not yet of the stature of Zinn and Chomsky, partly because of age. This is why leftgatekeeperism IS a problem worth addressing. I have been pleading with other truthers to contact me so we can put our heads together.(Thanks Don Stahl). Chomsky was my professor and Zinn used to correspond with me.

I reduce our critiique of leftgatekeeperism to 2 points:
1.Racism- the OCT promotes hatred of Arab and Muslim people. Ironically, Zinn, a Jew, is a leading critic of the intellectual imbalance in our society in favor of Israel.
2. Civil liberties- much of the left dislikes raising threats to their freedom. They prefer to resist threats to the freedom of non activists.

If somehow our power structure research is less worthy than theirs, they should delineate the difference. One way to look at it is to ask why Ellsberg's revelations are more valuable than Sibel Edmonds. Even Ellsberg himself says her revelations are more significant. If they can't answer this question, their leftgatekeeperism has less weight.

We need to make a website of Leftists for 911 truth. Parenti, Falk, etc.

Contact me 410-499-5403

It is Important to know who we can depend on and who not.

Herblay FRANCE

bonjour ,

the problème is we look to educated, well known people like Mr Zinn, Mr Chomsky and I would add two others George Monbiot and Greg Palast as people who have the intellectual potential to rapidly forward the truth. And when they do not we are decouraged and these people feel it. Our persistance in hoping for their help annoys them. In these hard times we see who is really important for change.

We have to stand up to the fact that it is up to us, the layman, to get the truth out by ourselves.



Let's all go back in time and tell everyone that there should be no trials at NURMBERG because we already know about the invasions and that should just be enough for now. Let's see how they react to that.

9/11 TRUTH is a PEOPLE'S Peace Movement...

I had absolutely no emotional reaction when witnessing the events on 9/ only comment was "Oh, today is the day...".

In some humanistic ways I'm sorry to state the above, but in my lifetime of observing our government ruthlessly killing people for their financial desires, [especially after being fired by Reagan, ostricized by my countrypeople, and witnessing the deaths of perhaps a thousand air travellers due to the FAA running a deficient aviation system {Air Florida and the 14th Street Bridge in WDC}, upon order from the WH, similar to EPA-air quality], and knowing about all the continuous flow of other dark actions that both care NOTHING about human lives other than those in the RULING CLASS, and to serve to develop their EMPIRES, I can also sadly state that I understand Zinn's position...and its certainly elitist, and deeply hypocritical to his life's body of work.

But, before going on, and with the exception of one "statement before the question" that was a bit too long, this action by 9/11 Montreal was flat out fantastic and serves as an excellent example that we are getting better all the time at dealing with this level of our society.

Zinn, Derschowitz, Chomsky and many others of such backgrounds have their histories and legacies attached to supressing the events surrounding 9/11...NOT because of the events themselves, but because the events of 9/11 and our amazing research into them, get ordinary people into the new web-based Rabbitt Hole of historical research, analysis and understanding of this world. These "newly revealed" histories are either opposite of their conclusions, or the new techniques of inquiry will eventually serve to replace their efforts to decipher history in the future. I mean, how many think differently of Chomsky now in comparison to what they felt of him a mere eight years ago? The web world has leveled the informational flow and perhaps even the intellectual playing fields of life. This group is OLD, set in their ways, defending their live's works which have, in part, been created on revised history, and perhaps is now exposing some hidden agendas. But I do not worry about them as they do not worry about me...I am doing what I am doing beause I believe in the goodness of the eyes of The Ruling Class, this woud be the "commoner".

Of ALL the histories of governmental murder, abuse and financial malfeasances through my 45 "conscious" years, the events of 9/11 are BY FAR the best opportunity to get the average citizen to SEE something about their own government's corporatocratic and militaristic behaviors that, through Operation Mockingbird, and its ensuing copycats, have always been able to: "contain", or "frame", or "explain", or "rationalize", or "nationalistic-ize", in ways that got these criminals off the hooks each and every time.

Not so with the 9/11 Truth Movement...a PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT! I think that the 9/11TM is the most important movement that has ever existed in this country. Not because of where we are right now, and not because we may or may not get to the "Truth" behind the events of 9/11, but because we have regenerated the idea that Truth seeking is a good thing...that becoming informed is a good thing...that NOT trusting corporatocracy and coprorate media [and alternative medias] is a good thing...that being skeptical about politicians and their lies is a good thing...and hopefully, that changing our 60s-70s ways and becoming more involved in our own self-governance is a NECCESSARY thing.

There are new tools out here and the old guard KNOWS it is in deep trouble because the youth of today are far more adept at using them than the old longtooths themselves. And in some "larger view" ways, the youth of today are wiser and more onjective regarding world perspectives and "life's priorities" while in their "more informed" mid-20s than this OLD GUARD is in their mid-70s and mid-80s. Its an interesting thing that's going on...and it has skipped an entire generation...the 60s-70s activist generation...go figure! the revolution that the 9/11 Truth Movement is leading down the road for civilization! We have taken typical black ops designed to accomplish the "usual" to the people, and exposed them like no other black op has EVER been exposed. The 9/11 Truth Movement is the new sheriff in town...and we are passing out our "new info-age armaments" to the people saying...look for yourself and consider throwing these bums out...ALL OF THEM...and lets make some BIG changes from below!

Of the following issues, what has not been foisted upon us, or made worse by the concepts of, the support of, and the actions of war?

...the control of us by international financial structures...
...the fourth estate not being responsible to keep the public informed...
...human healthcare systems diminished in lieu of human DEATHCARE systems flourishing...
...the abuse of, and the pollution of, the planet...regarding both chemical and nuclear in weaponry...
...the continued subservance of females on the planet as less than equals...too busy fighting...have babies..

I'm sure I'm missing a few here...however...IF...

We become our OWN MODERN PEACE MOVEMENT...we will eventually get around the deeply compromised established anti-war organizations and other similar blockages, and tap into the better natures and objectives of the avergage person on this planet. Then, we can as a collective, do something about not only the short list noted above, but millions of other issues that "The Ruling Class" has been keeping away from our "prowess of solutions" for centuries. After all: "We can't handle the TRUTH!" Remember?

Its War and Peace Baby!...and in no time of history has there EVER been a better opprtunity, nor a better set of tools, human and otherwise, to get all the way back to the very foundations of the problems set into place centuries ago. THIS is why the Peace Organizations, as well as many activities within the 9/11 Truth Movement have been deeply COINTELPROED. Its BECAUSE of the amazingly powerful upside for revolution and change being presented by, and powered by, the 9/11 Truth Movement. If ever the peace movements get their act together, grow up, accept that they have been hacked for three decades, get laptops, have their grandchildren teach the how to use them, get on board into THIS century...then...The Ruling Class is in DEEP trouble...indeed. They know fuels their cointelpro ops...

So, the Zinn's of the world are OBVIOUSLY in the middle of being left behind...especially when one looks at how special and vital the likes of Peter Dale Scott and other's in the same generation who have "kept up with, embrace, and are speaking out about" this sordid history...the attacks of 9/11/2001. The Griffins, Peter Dale Scotts and so many others of that generation are growing right along with us...they are not drying on the vine like the Zinns and Chomskys.

From my view, the only real positive that will ever come from dealing with these dinosaurs is to get them on the record which, in the end, will show that over the years, they have become PART of the problem and not part of the solution.

Our job is to inform the ordinary? people IN SPITE of all these established barriers...and we can do it...UNLESS...

...unless we make the very same mistake that the activists of the 60s-70s made...and that is to complain to the "hiearchy of control" hoping to change their minds and then for them to act legislatively in our behalf. This is FOLLY!

The "Ruling Class" has to have their collectivised power reduced RADICALLY...we shoud decentralize our lives...people should become more involved in ourown governance by being constantly skeptical and observant.

And the ONLY way that "The Ruling Class" can be mitigated is by educating and empowering the people to act in their own behalfs and in spite of The Ruling Class.

Consequently, our work at bullhorning empty building...and hoping beyond all hope that IF we just get one "biggy" in academia or in the media to "flip" onto ourside, then everything will be better and we will then have "won" nothing but a remake of a calamitous mistake made by many generations of activists before us...most noteably the 60s-70s peace activists.

The ultimate truth is that if we want a better world WE, the citizens have to continuously work towards it...there are NO VACATIONS in making a better world. And if anyone knows any peace activists from the 60s-70s, or those who have been indoctruinated into the same "zombie mindset", it might be good to ask them into THIS century, head them to a laptop, and suggest that they END their vacations.

At least Zinn has stated what I'd like to hear regarding a new investigation...let ten solid citizens be assigned this task...and this is a good thing. For us to expect anything different from the majority of this generation, OR from representatives or "explainers" of the history of "The Ruling Class" is, I think, quite naive.

Additionally, we ourselves stand in hypocrisy when we scream aloud about the Zinns of the world state that there are "extreemists and zealots" in the 9/11 Truth Movement! How can we yap at him when we know about the Haupts, the Reynolds, the Fetzers and so many others who approach the Zinns as often if not more than WE approach the Zinns. We have thrown these nutcases away because we are more informed about the facts...these elders have not been inclined to do such research. Someday, they will regret this and we should simply take the position that they remain uninformed.

Just think about the OUTRAGEOUS statements now having been made by Chomsky and Zinn...basically "Who cares!"

YIKES...nuff said about them I'd say.

Believeing in the 9/11 Truth Movement is why I perform CI...Civil Informationing as often as I can...its the citizenry who are the ONLY ones in position to create the changes that we seek. PLEASE follow David Ray Griffin's advice here...STEP UP the information flow...STEP UP and improve the professionalized pressure for our "TOP TEN" investigators, STEP UP doing our deep research and doing what we do, and STEP UP 9/11 Truth Movement activities because the political environment is better now than it has ever been to keep the Truth flowing. Obama has stated he wants to hear opposing opinions...lets take him up on it...metaphorically speaking. If Obama says he is more open to listening, the perhaps citizens will be more open to listening. Obama's a tool...our success surely is not in his hands. Throw the BUMS out...and replace them with good citizens who in turn will be thrown out if they sour.

The 9/11 Truth Movement is revolutionizing revolution only IF we do not depend upon these academic and political relics, and only IF we do not repeat the mistakes from the past.

Take two hours out of your lives...see "Sir!, No Sir" for an hour, think about if for an hour, recognize that all the alleged successes of the "marching stuff" was a psy-op put into place by Nixon and his gang so as to WASTE all our time and also depend upon the hiearchy of power flowing into WDC to make changes. We are NOW on a far, far better track for revolution and we must avoid going backwards as happened after the 60s-70s. I just do not see how we can be successful by depending upon the Zinns, Chomskys, corporate media, and some allegedly "alternative media" to solve our problems and to reach our goals.

Its US BABY...and onto OUR FUTURE...which WE WILL SHAPE!

Love, Peace and Progress with:


...just for starters...

Robin Hordon

Well said Robin, very well said indeed!

I'm sending this exellent rant to my list!

Kind regards John

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

It was long Robin, but the points are all good.

I encounter these relics and bozo’s who seemingly do not have a clue how essential the 911TM is. I think the best attitude is to respectfully make them understand that they are out of touch with the strongest democratic peace movement that is gathering momentum today.
Hand them clear forensic evidence of explosive demolition of the three towers in New-York: ‘s DVD “9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction” is proof for any sane scientific person, beyond reasonable doubt: if they still believe Bin Laden’s barbaric suicide extremists did it with box-cutters and kerosene, then they are either incapable of examining scientific proof because of emotional reasons, or they are just bozo’s, relics to be written off, and lets get on with building our world.

I have also tried hard to get through to some of these high esteemed professors and media gate-keepers: many of them are complacent and cowards, don’t waste time with them, move on to those who DO want to participate in building a better society based on truth, transparency, and a dynamic well informed public. These are great people to build tomorrow with, I have met them, and they are where it’s at! People like Richard Gage and Carol Brouillet. We will not advance well, nor will we be well informed with the obfuscation old guard intellectual relics like Hhomsky and Coward Zinn. (Oops)

I second the proposition of Robin Hordon and David Ray Griffin's call to “...STEP UP the information flow...STEP UP and improve the professionalized pressure for our "TOP TEN" investigators, STEP UP doing our deep research and doing what we do, and STEP UP 9/11 Truth Movement activities because the political environment is better now than it has ever been to keep the Truth flowing”.

9/11 Truth is important enough to follow John Bursil’s motto “9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!”

Love from Brussels,

Dr Eric Beeth

"unflinching, unswerving, fierce intellectual determination, as citizens, to define the real truth of our lives and our societies is a crucial obligation which devolves upon us all. It is in fact mandatory. If such a determination is not embodied in our political vision we have no hope of restoring what is so nearly lost to us - the dignity of man." (Harold Pinter)

are historians concerned with

truth, reality, justice, history, social progress- is Zinn?

7 years after 9/11, has he really not thought about or looked at what's in the public domain about the falsity of the NIST reports and the evidence of controlled demolition?

and the thousands of contradictions, omissions and distortions that make up the official story?

"the truth is, I don't think anybody will ever know what really happened on 9/11, just as i don't think anybody will really know who killed John F Kennedy, and a lot of people who] wasted a huge amount of time working on something that I- did not have any practical political significance." - Zinn

Zinn says he's not opposed to a new investigation with "10 people", but what questions does he want asked? What about the official story does he find acceptable? It seems obvious to most who examine what we were told about 9/11 that it simply does not add up. We the People who are not in power are only going to be able to do limited investigations, but the above links make it clear, imho, that 9/11 was an inside job, or, speaking conservatively- there's an overwhelming prima facie case for investigating criminal complicity and negligence on the part of people in various US govt branches and global military corporate complex, as well as principals connected to Israel, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. A new investigation is needed to determine who knew what when and did what.

If Zinn has found satisfactory explanations for the questions raised just in this document he signed, he should share them with the world. He himself said a lot of people are raising questions with him about 9/11 and the falsity of the historical record as it's being presented in the media and in public and private schools and universities- and by so-called intellectual champions of the left like him. Zinn is far too dismissive of 9/11 and the lies supporting it; the consequences were 3000 mass murdered people and the license for the resulting surveillance state, lost rights, fiscal ruin and wars- thousands of dead soldiers, well over a million Iraqis and Afghanis, threats to Syria, Iran- and now the US again; "al qaeda"s new warning; the next attack; will it be real or assisted? With the NSA spying on everyone, will they have any excuse for letting the new patsies thru? However, under martial law, after an i9/11, nuked city or other massive disruption, what resources will We the the People have to investigate? Will our "representatives" have the patriotism, guts and loyalty to the Constitution to stop abuses of power and root treason out of Our government? The Bush Administration has never given a satisfactory explanation for why the attacks weren't stopped, and they're still sitting on mountains of evidence.

Zinn repudiates his career

" 'the truth is, I don't think anybody will ever know what really happened on 9/11, just as i don't think anybody will really know who killed John F Kennedy, and a lot of people who] wasted a huge amount of time working on something that I- did not have any practical political significance.' - Zinn"

If this was some sophomoric undergrad chattering away late at night in the dorm, I could look askance.

Instead, this is a seasoned historian who has literally made a career for himself probing the originative events of American history. Who does he think he's kidding?

No, we almost never learn the full story behind very large and complex historical events. Duh. But that doesn't mean we don't survey the evidence at hand and seek our best understanding. Zinn, a much-published historian, knows that full well and has predicated his life on that.

Yes, we'll never know the full story of the impact on Native Americans of the European conquest. We'll never know the full story of slavery in the New World. We'll never fully understand what happened behind the scenes that led to the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, the Korean and Vietnam wars. Again, duh. That hasn't prevented Zinn from examining the evidence and writing about these events with purpose and passion, and realizing their relevance to today's world.

But somehow all that is shrugged aside when it comes to 9/11 (and, apparently, the JFK assassination). Moreover, we're supposed to believe that, since the absolutely complete story probably can't be written, we shouldn't bother concluding or even saying much about it at all. Even if there's abundant scientific evidence that the WTC skyscrapers went down from controlled demolition, well, we humans can't be absolutely certain of anything, so forget about it.

Let's all just quit talking. We can't be sure of anything, so let's just never speak or write cognitively. Or something like that.

Sounds to me like Zinn has had a coaching session with that past master of obscurantism, Noam Chomsky.

Howard Zinn concentrates on Bush

Have you noticed that he says we don´t need more proof to prosecute Bush. Bush´s crimes are obvious.
he realizes that 911 will expose forces much higher than Bush, which are the ones he HAS TO protect.


The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

those behind Bush

Those behind Bush deserve study,agreed. As a leftist, Zinn would have no interest in putting down a class analysis, which holds that the ruling class is ultimately responsible for oppression. This is why leftgatekeeperism is a problem worth addressing.

The foolish "War" sorry "Peace" Activists have their hero!

The frcken peacefully scared and controlled sheeple can now stay asleep and the victims continue to roll in the Fresh Kills...f*** them!

I am sooo fricken angry, more of the same for these morons and agents! Make them squirm, laugh and scoff at us fanatics until they relize they are with the flat earth movement and are nothing more than what they are supposed to despise.

Never give up!!!

Regards John

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

Great work Montreal.

You really nailed him....and in front of such a large audience! Thanks for filming and thanks for posting. This is very inspiring!
It was interesting how during some of the questioning someone was handing him messages and whispering in his ear as if telling him what he must say.
If they have to tell him what to say right in front of people....this is showing someone is very frightened of what the Truth Movement is exposing.
Let's keep going and not let them off the hook!
I can't wait until some more "name" type people come to lecture near me so I can do this sort of thing.....

It's about time for us to realize that everywhere has been

They are gatekeepeers.
Foxy Chomsky, and now Zinn following his good friend.

They are simply misleading the crowd so that those who listen to them won't check some vital facts related to that tragedy called 9/11.

And it's about time for us all to realize that everywhere has been infiltrated with these spooks, who provide all kinds of misinformation and mislead the entire movement.

"Who cares who killed JFK!"???
"I don't care that much" about 9/11!???


Currently I am under attack by my co-peace activists, and some of them, it's hard to believe they are after peace reading what they write to me sheerly attacking me personally with baseless allegations.

They don't talk about the facts on 9/11, but smear us truthers.

So I wrote back asking them, who did say that they agree we need a new investigation, why?

ZInn says the same.
He says he doesn't believe the official investigation and needs a new one.
Then ask him WHY we need a new investigation.
Ask him what part of official story he doesn't believe.

They didn't answer me, those co-peace activists cause they cannot answer.

They are simply there to confuse the rest in the movement,
make them believe that 'touching 9/11 truth is so dangerous
to the movement.'

Wait a second!
I wrote to those co-peace activists, that it doesn't make sense at all.

They say checking 9/11, you would drop all the other issues
therefore it's so dangerous to the entire movement.

However in reality, I know no activist who's doing it.
Myself is still working on other issues, not only 9/11 but so many other issues.

And some activists I know who are aware of the 9/11 truth, the real story, haven't stopped what they were doing because they know it's important.

On top, as Robin Hordon pointed out, this has become PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT ie ordinary people including his kind of experts from every possible field have woken up and raising voices against all wars.

Aren't we to WELCOME this phenomenon if you're in the peace movement??????

This is what we rather WANTED TO SEE.
So many people have woken up to the FACT that THEY the real criminals go THAT FAR, they'd LIE to the world in order to start wars. Just that book "Day of Deceit" claims. The number of entire population against all wars have increased and been increasing every single day!

And yet, those 'PEACE' activists say, it's 'dangerous to the movement.'

I wrote that a few days ago, and I haven't got any response from them.
Cause they cannot answer but only to ignore my question.

Also I asked Zinn if he would cancel what he wrote about DRG, I got no reply.
He replied to me within a few minutes when I asked him his approval to translate his article in the past. But this one, he ignored my mail.

Wonderful spooks they are, and this is why the concept of left or right hasn't worked at all.
They are all misinformed and mislead.

So, here again, this is the era for RIGHT OR WRONG, folks.

9/11 Truth Australia
"September 11th was an Inside Job!"

Activists are talking about another "movement"

"And yet, those 'PEACE' activists say, it's 'dangerous to the movement.'

These activists like Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky and Dershowitz and the heads of many so-called "peace movements" have other concerns and loyalties which supersede their commitment to "Peace" or even Freedom and Liberty for all (as our pledge of alliegence demands).
We must start demanding to know why they are insisting on keeping the truth hidden and exactly WHAT and whose interests are being served!!!
Could their loyalties to other nations or groups or elite factions be what is holding them back from participating in the 911 Truth Movement?

Understanding 9/11 is necessary

to properly understand more recent events. I would agree with Zinn in relation to exclusive focus on 9/11 without regard for events before and after. That said, 9/11 was a very big deal and it doesn't make sense to either dismiss it as "in the past" or go along with the "they took advantage of it" theory.

The pre-9/11 conduct helps to explain the post 9/11 overreaction. For example, the same officials who conducted themselves in such a bizarre manner in the lead up to 9/11 were advocates of the police state CT tactics after 9/11.

Is there a difference between a good faith overreaction vs. the implementation of a fascist agenda? Same with Iraq--is there a difference between faulty intel and a good faith concern about WMD's vs. an ulterior agenda (for example war profiteering)? Without question. One would think most historians would agree that it is extremely important for people to understand the true nature of their political reality.

Talk about a U-turn...

Zinn was one of the original 100 signatories asking for a Congressional investigation of 9/11:

Why the 180°?

My thoughts exactly.

Reprehensor raised this point also.

Maybe Uncle $am got to him. We have reasons to be suspicious.

The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

left v liberal

Zinn AND Chomsky do NOT shmooze with Democratic party types. That doesn't make them any more correct on 911.

Mainstream historians will write in the future about the problem of leftgatekeeperism. That is, after the world faces 911truth.

The weirdness is that ALL leftists are anti-racist, but the official story of 911 is used as an excuse to support hatred of Arab and Muslim people.

Does anyone know what DVD he

Does anyone know what DVD he was given? I hope it was something like Press for Truth.

TWO more interesting points...

There are some interesting things here...

Its very interesting that Zinn [and Rovics who parrots him] take the position that there is enough evidence to "get" the Bush Crime Family and we need not drift into "9/11 Wonderland" as its a waste of time that could be better used with indictments and political change. I pointed out to Rovics, and I point out to Zinn right now, THEIR GROUP coming out of the 60s and all the nefarious events since, have ALWAYS had enough "information" to bring charges and to affect political, why didn't it happen then?

Here is why...its because of the corrupted peace movements, their "leaders" such as Zinn, and their little songsters who play 75 person coffee shops were given the responsibility to accomplish this...THATS WHY! They are compromized and incompetent...and they think they will get it right this time?

This is my complaint about almost ALL the "revolutionaries" and leaders coming from the 60s...and this even includes Tom Hayden if I heard his words on Thom Hartmann correcty [I paraphrase]..."just being able for citizens to even 'consider' that your governement would do such atrocious things to its own people as well as to kill so many other peoples is a significant victory and marks progress...". YIKES!!!

Now do you see why I have nothing but disdain for the 60s-70s peace activists who have responded to the new information age by burying their heads FURTHER into the sand? These people are completely compromised...and perhaps still stoned I'd say. Meanwhie, the 9/11 Truth Movement is taking on the MOTHER of all Town Halls...the one that has the BIG guns...and five sides to its headquarters...

When considering the histories and accomplishments of the various "movements" that came out of the 60s-70s, how well do the "efforts" of the peace movements stack up to these other movements?

...the civil rights movement...
...the womens rights movement...
...the environmental movement...
...the anti-nuke movement...

EACH of the above movements have made at least SOME progress...and some have made unprecidented progress...

But during the exact same time period the anti-war movement has overseen:

...the greatest growth in militarism ever known on planet earth...
...the expansion of US funding of military and Intel Ops to WELL OVER 50% of our national budget...
...which ends up being more money spent on the "mass killing skills and devices" than the
...the placement of a pre-planned Patriot Act immediately after 9/11 [Howard?] reducing a citizens rights...
...wire and email tapping of regular citizens which the oldhipsters really roasted Nixon for using...
...and a significant "militarization" of our congress...not to mention AIPAC and Israel's influences...

With THIS track record and their entire life's work resting upon the illusion that they, and the peace movement are successful, is it any wonder that they are going down with their sinking ships espousing their old spent party lines? These guys are part of the problem...and have been so for a long, long time.

Here is my read on how and why the peace movements have been cointelproed into being is why I push CI...Civil Informationg to replace most the tactics for public activisms and activist organizations that were born and refined in the 60s-70s.

CI is a citizens information revolution and is cointelpro-proof!

One of the most interesting things to note, in addition to coming to understand what the documentary "Sir!, No Sir" tells us about the falsity of BIG MARCHES being the primary reason that the Vietnam War came to an end, is that the BIG MARCH thing is "reactionary", sparsely used, and has only one information bit...oppose war...DUHHH? This is just what cointelpro ordered....especially since the peace movements could be so easily infiltrated with just a few "trusted agents" at the top levels of the organizations. Hack the top...and the followers follow. Sound familiar Truthers?

Adding to the above point about the low information flow and the irregularity of the "gatherings and actions", ask your self the following question:

"What happened to the peace movements when the USofA was NOT engaged in a public war?"

Its very clear that all of the other movements kept on working every day, every year, every decade carrying information, education, and political activisms out to the public in almost every corner of the USofA.

But, without a public war...the peace movements dissapeared.

Joan Baez was really wasn't and isn't a "peace movement" in this country...its actually a: "don't kill my middle class child" movement..."but I will pay taxes for the BIG POLICE FORCE to protect me by sending other's children to war" movement...

And has this TRUTH not been born out by the all volunteer "killing force" of today and the use of highly paid mercinaries to keep US soldiers' insurrection down in Iraq and elsewhere? But there is more...and here are the DOTS FOR THE DAY...and sadly, for two centuries now...

In the few periods of "non-public wars" since the Vietnam era [admittedly not that many years...but there are a few]...IF...the peace movements in this country had actually kept up their alleged "concerns"...that being truly for peace and against expanding its efforts by getting into high schools to talk to the fighting military exposing the non-public informing the public about the TRUTHS of the Military Industrial Complex coined by a REPUBLICAN GENERAL TURNED PRESIDENT... yet they DIDN'T continue to do any of this, then this begs the question:

"What warring-invasion-occupation events OUTSIDE this country would the anti-war groups in the good ole USofA eventually have to FOCUS UPON during the downtimes USofA's 'public wars' ?"

After all, if you are against war HERE...shouldn't you be against war EVERYWHERE...including in countries that are your allies...countries that the USofA provides arms to?

A short pause for consideration as we look for an ongoing conflict that has not stopped its warring ways since the end of WWII...HMMM?

So, right back to Chomsky, Zinn, the modern day peace movements, the corporate media, the fake alternative media, and all the other gatekeepers that are so threatened by the merger of 9/11 Truth and Peace.

These 60s-70s left gatekeepers simply could not allow THIS COUNTRY to realize what is actually going on between Israel and Palestine...a realization that most other countries are well aware of because their medias are NOT such gatekeepers as are ours. And I will say this again, this includes the alleged "alternative medias" in this country too....the alternative medias that have suffered the very same infiltrations...but make it look like they have not! NYET...most of them are hacked too...same players...same roles...same results. I say that the largest impediment to establishing and popularizing 9/11 Zionism.

And don't even get me going on Hollywood's role in glorifying wars, killing and black ops...don't even ask...I break TV sets when I am remnded of this massive psy-op and cash cow for Hollywood...


I've laid out alotta DOTS here...just pick out any four or five...they are ALL connected through a nexus no matter how you arrange, or rearrange them...and this is ALL a plan conjured up by a few at the financial top many, many years ago...and they are white...and they are men...

And predictably, such grand plans are in great need of left gatekeepers who look otherwise. This is a requirement in order to keep the "zombified peaceniks" delusional and thinking that they are OK when indeed they have been fully hacked against themselves and have become so very ineffective.

Gotta give Noam, Howard and others some solid credit here...they are filling these roles pretty damn good...

Love, Peace and Progress

Robin Hordon