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David Chandler responds to Frank Greening
“Chief Engineer” Hyman Brown by Patrick Marks
Two Days Before 9/11, Military Exercise Simulated Suicide Hijack Targeting New York
Psychologists Weigh In On 9/11
New York Senator Gillibrand Supports New 9/11 Investigation
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Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

UPDATE: U.S. BTS FOIA Records For 9/11 Planes Differ From BTS Online Database

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According to a Freedom of Information Act reply from the U.S. Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS), the last known pre-9/11 flights for three of the four aircraft involved in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 took place in December, 2000, nine months before the attacks, while no pre-9/11 final flight information was provided for American Airlines flight 77 (N644AA).

However, a discovered searchable online BTS database produces the following search results for three of the four 9/11 aircraft on September 10, 2001:

AA 11 departs San Francisco (SFO): AA 09/10/2001 0198 (flight number) N334AA (tail number) BOS (destination) 22:04 (wheels-off time)

UA 175 departs San Francisco (SFO): UA 09/10/2001 0170 (flight number) N612UA (tail number) BOS (destination) 13:44 (wheels-off time)

UA 93 departs San Francisco (SFO): UA 09/10/2001 0078 (flight number) N591UA (tail number) EWR (destination) 23:15 (wheels-off time)

http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDe...

AA 11:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd121/88Badmachine88/AABTS.jpg

UA 175 and UA 93

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd121/88Badmachine88/UABTS.jpg

What about on 9/11 itself?

So we have no pre-9/11 2001 flights for the registered aircraft involved in the attacks.... but what about the day itself? What BTS statistics are there for Flight 77 that morning? (take-off logs such as elapsed runway time, taxi-out time, etc.) Is this information available to be verified or is even that a mystery?

Don't tell me there's no pre-9/11 final flight information for N644AA and no Sept. 11,2001 take-off logs either.

good question

If the last date in 2000 was say mid Dec or in Nov then it would be clear. But since it's on Dec 30/31 I just have to be absolutely clear in my mind. If there is data on 9/11 but nothing before that year then it's clear in my head. If there is no data AT ALL in 2001 then it could be a clerical error or a cover up of the data in 2001. What if we ask for a FOIA on other flights?

Earlier FOIA Reply Didn't Imply Classification

A previous similar FOIA reply from last year implied that destroyed flight computers on 9/11 would explain the missing information. However, federal law seems to require monthly reporting.

IMO, the FBI did seize the missing BTS information when it likely seized other DoT and airline records for the aircraft.

The BTS has provided departure data for the 9/11 flights (except AA 77).

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert.Monniere@dot.gov
To: a_monaghan@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: FOIA Request

I received the following response from our Office of Airline Information stating that the agency records indicate that:

“There were no flights in 2001 (August 26 to September 11, 2001) with tail numbers N591UA or N644AA.”

Robert A. Monniere

202-366-5498

RITA's Office of the Chief Counsel

U.S. DOT

----- Original Message -----
From: Bernard.Stankus@dot.gov
To: a_monaghan@cox.net
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:40 AM
Subject: RE: Clarification of FOIA Response

Dear Mr. Monaghan:

A BTS programmer conducted a search of the entire on-time data base (the only data base which captures flight information by tail number) for the tail numbers referenced in your request.

We sent you the results of the data search. Please be advised that only domestic scheduled passenger flights are reported in this data base. Charter flights and international flights are not reported. Generally, the major airlines utilize their larger aircraft on the longer international flight segments.

Also, the air carriers capture the times needed for reporting purposes by on board computers. If these planes and computers were destroyed in the events of 9-11, I am not sure if the airlines had the capability to capture the necessary data.

Bernie Stankus

http://www.911blogger.com/node/17994

Thanks

“There were no flights in 2001 (August 26 to September 11, 2001) with tail numbers N591UA or N644AA.”

So I guess that either means this was a charter or international flight, or that DOT is not telling the truth?

Newark - Liberty International (EWR / KEWR) USA - New Jersey September 8, 2001 (UA 93, N591UA)

So, the 911blogger article you referenced also involved querying the plane spotter database. What are your thoughts on these 2001 spotted flights and what do you want to learn specifically from these FOIA requests?

Hoped To Spot Discrepencies, Gaps, Etc.

Yet given the wide use of the pre-9/11 GPS capable avionics packages contained by United and American Boeing 757 and 767 aircraft, any tinkering (Flight Management Computers) could have been performed during routine service and other checks.

Also of the beleif that any unique pre-9/11 recorded discrepancies regarding the four planes might have suggested foreknowledge.

Thanks KO and RiD.

Huh?

“There were no flights in 2001 (August 26 to September 11, 2001) with tail numbers N591UA or N644AA.”

BTS Site Logs: N591UA flew out of SFO to various destinations on these dates: (which have more than one departure in each month)

1/27/01, 2/7/01, 3/2/01, 4/5/01, 5/2/01, 6/3/01, 7/6/01, *8/27/01, *9/09/01 & *9/10/01
*No flights from Aug 26 - Sept 11? Not according to BTS.

As for N644AA, you would assume this tail number would show up in the Sept listings, right? Nope!

What I did find strange, in the Sept 11th listing for Washington Dulles International, Flight 0077's tail number (N644AA) is listed as 'UNKNOW', does not list the 'wheels off time' of 8:20 AM, but shows the 'Scheduled Departure Time' of 8:10. See below for exact results.

AA | 09/11/2001 | 0077 | UNKNOW | LAX | 08:10 | 00:00 | 0326 | 0000 | 0 | 00:00 | 0000 | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A

Also, N644AA does not show up under any other month of 2001 flying out from Dulles International Airport. I found that the other tail numbers had listings in the BTS logs of departing out of the same airports they launched from on 9/11, multiple times. That means the aircraft with tail number N644AA has never been recorded flying out of Washington Dulles International, but the other aircraft were recorded?

Strange…

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Is there

any way to obtain the *service records* of the planes? These could prove quite interesting....

With that said, thanks Aidan, for this wonderful new information.

Any AA or UA pilots

who flew these aircraft in the year prior to 9/11, send Aidan the info and put the word out to fellow crew to do the same.

Sitting aircraft is irregular

these major airlines just don't leave top-line aircraft sitting on the tarmac somewhere. there are payments to be made on these aircraft, and to have this many just sitting and not making money - somewhere - is highly irregular.

Irregular? How about the Commander-in-Chief

sitting in a schoolroom watching a reading lesson in the midst of a "surprise attack?" How's that for "irregular?" And still it is accepted.

We need an exorcist or a medicine man or a shaman to break this psychosis.

[Actually we ARE the medicine men (and women). We are very good at what we do - but we are not exactly speedy at getting results]

"The mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small." Greek philosopher Sextus Empiricus

highly irregular

The president of the United States upon being informed that at second plane had struck the World Trade Center and "America is under attack" picked up a book and began to read about a pet goat.

After having known that the first plane struck the World Trade Center before entering the classroom in the first place! (Which meant that he would have also known that hijackings were being reported as well. )

After having ignored roughly 20 PDBs and other warnings. Why would he have ignored the warnings? For the same reason that he ignored the attacks.

highly irregular

There's no way these aircraft would just be standing around on the tarmac not being utilized for that long unless they were damaged. What are the odds that all these aircraft were down for repairs for the year and 9/11 just happened to be their first day back? For all 4. Where are the repair or maintenance records? (perhaps a new commission could subpoena the airlines themselves to get this information).

I was working for an airline in 2001 at RDU in NC. Boeings that were functional did not just sit around the tarmac. I can also say that the FAA rountinely checked airport security to make sure that metal was not taken through. Once the FAA person at RDU put a small knife in a cup of Coke and handed it to the screener before walking through and picked it back up--- and there was hell to pay. This was summer of 01. There's also a small chance that a very tiny pocket knife could have been dropped into the coin tray among keys and coins and gotten through, but even the coin tray was looked at. To think that the success of this operation required 19 out of 19 people to successfully take metal through metal detectors is almost beyond belief. What if only 2 or 3 of them got boxcutters through? (Which is a liberal guess). And if they had accomplices at the airports with SIDA badges to hook them up at the gate, then why in the hell would they bring them boxcutters?????????

It doesn't add up.

Did you see

my comment above listing the four flights spotted at various airports in 2001, up to 9/11?

Thanks for the additional context about the metal detectors. I wonder if airport security is ever a proper topic over at Pilots for 911 Truth. (I always think it should be Aviation Professionals for 9/11 Truth, as this is much more inclusive, so that ATC's, airport personnel, etc.. feel drawn there too)

Great work Aidan.

Thanks for your tireless work. It is invaluable to the movement.

It appears you have found another important anomaly.

You are amazing.

Flight 175 Was Not A Commercial 767

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I don't see

how you can tell from those tiny pictures the difference between a commercial aircraft and an aircraft made for the military; which is not present in the "digital analysis"...
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Flight 175 Anomalies

TruthgoneWild,

The picture below shows the early 767 military prototype:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/kc767/kc7671.html

As you can clearly see, the relief in the rear area of the undercarriage (extra fuel tank) matches that of the digital analysis.

The long cylindrical object in relief under the upper area of the fuselage looks like a JSTARS attachment:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/jstars/jstars1.html

Of course, the POD is also identified on the digital analysis, though I have no idea what it could be.

Dean Jackson/Editor-in-Chief www.DNotice.org
Washington, DC

Click to enlarge

(1) (2) (3)

I think I see a logo and a window in (2), it looks like (3).

See the additional stabilizer on the wing tip for the tanker plane in (1)?

Can you find it?

It's not a tanker. Why use a military 767 without windows if you can use the real deal commercial 767? So you can blow your operation the moment somebody snaps a good picture?

I'll grant you this though: some say the "pod" also left an impact hole in WTC 2's facade. This I cannot explain.

But...

There was no "pod".

What impact hole are you refering to?
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WTC Planes Almost Certainly Commercial Aircraft

Once upon a time, I also entertained possible alternatives like swaps, etc. But the NYC medical examiners office transparently conducted a collection and ID of passenger forensic evidence (unlike UA 93 and AA 77 performed by the U.S. Armed Forces Institute of Pathology)

And the avionics packages available for Boeing 757 and 767 planes pre-9/11 and enhanced GPS signals seem sufficient for non-pilot control of standard commercial planes into targets.

As for alleged "pods", not sure what practical purpose they would even serve.

Flight 175 Anomalies

Aiden,

the digital analysis of Flight 175 confirms that a commercial airliner did not impact the south tower.

As for the NYC medical examiner's office, I wasn't there to supervise the forensics, and I have NO faith in the NYC government or the Federal government.

I don't know what the POD is for either, but it is there!

Look at Carmen Taylors' CNN Photograph in the link below. Those long reliefs are not the white stripes that AA aircraft have painted on the undersides, and what are those two holes near the tail? They are not a part of a civilian 767 airliner:

http://philjayhan.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/the-strange-anomalies-pod-and...

The media made not one interview of airport personnel at the three airports (Logan, Newark, and Dulles), which tells me that those 19 hijackers were NOT at the aiports on 9/11. If no hijackers were at the airports, then what does that tell you about Flights 11, 175, 77 and 93?

Dean Jackson/Editor-in-Chief www.DNotice.org
Washington, DC

Yea

I know exactly what you're saying Aidan, I've looked at it, decided to move on. Switching planes adds further complexity. It makes more sense the aircraft and people went down in one throw of a stone. Then creating false theories for the public to bite on and fight over like animals.

I'm not saying switching planes couldn't be possible, because it is possible. Or it wouldn't have been an option in the Northwoods document. But the aircraft weren't high tech back in those days, so it was a practical idea. In this day in age, they fly themselves.

I have a feeling the people who modified the aircraft most likely died on 911. Thousands of birds were killed that day, with four stones.
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Adds Complexity...yes, but at least we're not talking about CGI!

TruthgoneWild,

as I said to Aiden (below):

If Flight 175 had really been hijacked at Logan (and this point goes for the other three 9/11 aircraft), then if the aircraft was capable of being remote piloted, then the perpetrators would have to worry that the aircraft's remote navigation capabilities might be overridden by another entity in the government, and the aircraft landed safely. So the perpetrators had Boeing construct special models for the tasks needed on 9/11. Just a thought.

Also, while the perpetrators used the 19 hijackers, whose to say the perpetrators trusted the 19? The 19 (or some of them) could be working for that part of the government that was trying to prevent the 9/11 attacks. If so, then the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks wouldn't want to trust any of those 19 on the aircraft.

Dean Jackson/Editor-in-Chief www.DNotice.org
Washington, DC

Flight 175 Questions

SnowCrash,

I see window too.

What do windows and the odd undercarriage configurations suggest?

One would use a military aircraft (specially constructed) for 9/11 to insure the mission's success.

Look at Carmen Taylors' CNN Photograph in the link below. Those long reliefs are not the white stripes that AA aircraft have painted on the undersides, and what are those two holes near the tail? They are not a part of a civilian 767 airliner:

http://philjayhan.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/the-strange-anomalies-pod-and...

The media made not one interview of airport personnel at the three airports (Logan, Newark, and Dulles), which tells me that those 19 hijackers were NOT at the aiports on 9/11. If no hijackers were at the airports, then what does that tell you about Flights 11, 175, 77 and 93?

Dean Jackson/Editor-in-Chief www.DNotice.org
Washington, DC

Attachment Or Paint Job?

If there even was an attachment, what role would it play in delivering an aircraft to its target?

UA 175

UA 767-200

UA 175 (no apparent underside attachment profile)

Boeing 707 JSTARS (with obvious attachment)

Quote:

"One would use a military aircraft (specially constructed) for 9/11 to insure the mission's success."

What superior method of navigation would be provided by a "military" jet over a commercial jet?

Something Very Odd Flew Into The South Tower

Aiden,

paint jobs don't mimic reliefs, and the digital analysis of Flight 175 shows reliefs. The University School also did a digital analysis on another 767 -- 300, and no reliefs:

http://www.amics21.com/911/report.html

Also, the rear anomaly on Flight 175 looks nothing like the paint job of a 767.

The first picture you have up above certainly looks like a civilian 767 (except one can still make out the POD attached to where the port side wing meets the fuselage). However, the CNN picture obviously shows three objects in relief, not to mention those two odd holes near the tail of the airliner (see Carmen Taylors CNN photo in the link below):

http://philjayhan.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/the-strange-anomalies-pod-and...

If Flight 175 had really been hijacked at Logan (and this point goes for the other three 9/11 aircraft), then if the aircraft was capable of being remote piloted, then the perpetrators would have to worry that the aircraft's remote navigation capabilities might be overridden by another entity in the government, and the aircraft landed safely. So the perpetrators had Boeing construct special models for the tasks needed on 9/11. Just a thought.

Also, while the perpetrators used the 19 hijackers, whose to say the perpetrators trusted the 19? The 19 (or some of them) could be working for that part of the government that was trying to prevent the 9/11 attacks. If so, then the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks wouldn't want to trust any of those 19 on the aircraft.

Dean Jackson/Editor-in-Chief www.DNotice.org
Washington, DC

I have those pictures

Please circle this extra fuel tank. UA175 has every characteristic of a United Airlines, Boeing 767-222.

From distance, you're seeing the bottom of the aircraft: http://tinyurl.com/q8m2za

There is no need to have a protruding object on the aircraft, visible to everyone with a camera, it's just a dead give away.

Your JSTARS link proves my point that you're not seeing a bulky object hanging from the aircraft. Its a white(ish) broken stripe on a shiny surface, in the shade of the smoke, at maybe a mile's distance (not too sure just guesstimating) in the photo provided.
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The Eyes See What The Eyes See

TruthgoneWild,

paint jobs are not associated with reliefs. Mosaics are, however.

The three anomalies under Flight 175 are obviously in relief, and those two holes near the tail of the aircraft only add to the mystery of Flight 175.

Dean Jackson/Editor-in-Chief www.DNotice.org
Washington, DC

BTS website

HI !

Just want to warn you that some debunker found flight informations for 2001 on the BTS website. Maybe you should check this (copy/past of the debunker post) :

Go to the BTS inquiry page. ( http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml )

Check "All statistics".

Flight 175 regularly flew out of San Francisco, so choose that as the Origin Airport.

Choose United Airlines as the airline.

Check September for the month.

Check All Days to see information for all of September.

Check 2001 for the year.

Click Submit. And wait (that's a big query).

When it comes back, use your browser to search for Flight 175's tail number, N612UA. And look! It flew out of SF on the 1st, the 5th, the 7th, and the 10th, and (surprise surprise) there are no further flights.

So, the BTS database tells us that there were recorded flights for Flight 175 after 2000. There's no evidence this plane was "grounded" at all. I've not checked the other flights, but does anyone want to bet there aren't records of September 2001 flights for those, too?

As I said yesterday.....

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