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Power Struggle over Scholar's Website - ST911.org?

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Well the view from the outside seems to indicate the Space Beam interview Fetzer had with Judy Woods has not gone without incident.

An Open Letter About Steven Jones

Jim Fetzer, Phd

19 November 2006

Friends and Colleagues:

When I founded Scholars for 9/11 Truth, I invited Steve Jones to serve as co-chair. He has responsibility for co-editing our journal, which he originally founded with Judy Wood as co-editor and me as managing editor, and runs our members' forum, while I maintain our web site at st911.org. He is now planning to take control of the web site from me.

I have raised objections on moral, legal and intellectual grounds and I am categorically opposed to it. But he appears to be persisting in what might be described as a "hostile take over" to control Scholars. Because this is going on behind the scenes and you would otherwise be unaware of this scheme, I am publishing this open letter on st911.org.

The background to this move concerns new research about what happened at the World Trade Center involving hypotheses that differ from those Steve has been investigating and promoting for more than a year now. On 11 November 2006, Judy Wood was my guest on "Non-Random Thoughts" and we discussed new research she and Morgan Reynolds were doing on possible causes of the destruction of the World Trade Center, which involves the use of high-tech, directed energy-weaponry. I put up links to their research, which are available on our web site under "Events" for that date. Right or wrong, this is fascinating stuff, which I even discussed during lectures in Tucson the next two days:

Dr. James Fetzer: Did Classified Weaponry Destroy the Twin Towers?

On 15 November 2006, I invited Steve to come on a new program that I will be hosting on gcnlive.com with Kevin Barrett. "The Dynamic Duo" will be broadcast from 3-5 PM/CT. Kevin will host on M/F and I will host on T/W/Th. This new approach is so fascinating that I wanted Judy, Morgan and Steve to be my guests 28, 29, and 30 November 2006 with consecutive appearances on those days. Judy and Morgan agreed, but Steve has not, and, in a series of email exchanges, he began to raise questions about my management of the web site, where he seems to think any new idea that is controversial requires some kind of counterbalancing opinion. These are new views, of course, and the purpose of inviting him onto the program was for that very purpose!

Steve appears to be committing the blunder of supposing that the web site, like the journal, should include only finished research reports, which are fully referenced and formally presented. That is all wrong, because the web site and the journal have entirely different functions. The journal is for peer-reviewed studies. The web site is for current events and recent developments to keep the public informed about what is going on within the research community in its exploratory stages, including mini-nukes and high-tech weapons, which may or may not "pan out" and reach stages of development suitable for journal publication.

What is ironic about his attitude toward "unfinished research" is that he repeatedly characterizes his own studies of the use of thermite (in a sulfur-enhanced version known as "thermate") as both preliminary and incomplete. If that is the case, then by his own standard, there is a serious question whether his own research is ready for prime time! It is also worth mention that he has revised his basic paper on numerous occasions, which, to the best of my knowledge, have not been subject to additional peer review. If we only mention or discuss finished research on st911.org, there is a serious question whether Steve's work properly qualifies for inclusion in the journal he edits, much less the web site.

The hardest part of scientific inquiry is the stage of speculation in coming up with alternative hypotheses as possible explanations for the phenomena under consideration. Here we are talking about the complete destruction of two 500,000-ton buildings and five other structures the demolition of which is seldom mentioned in public discourse. Judy and Morgan have discovered the WTC was constructed in an enormous "bathtub" to create a barrier to protect the site from overflow of water from the Hudson River, which would have flooded PATH TRAIN tunnels and subways throughout Manhattan. To avoid this catastrophe, it appears to have been indispensable to turn 4/5 of the towers to dust and demolish just 1/5 by more conventional means, such as those Steve Jones has advanced.

Critics seem to be deriving a lot of mileage from my having described this new research as "Fascinating!" What I meant by that--as I think anyone who listens to the program can discern--is that the importance of the bathtub and the completeness of the destruction of the World Trade Center, where it looks as though every building with a "WTC" designation was targeted for devastation, greatly expands the scope of the evidence regarding what has to be explained (in philosophical language, it broadens and redefines the explanandum for any potential explanans, where the explanandum describes what is to be explained and the explanans offers the initial conditions and laws advanced to explain them). This is an enormous advance and is truly fascinating!

11 November 2006
Interview: Judy Wood will be the guest on "Non-Random Thoughts" with host Jim Fetzer
Related: The Star Wars Beam Weapon
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam1.html
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam2.html
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam3.html
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam4.html
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam5.html
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam6.html
http://rbnlive.com

You don't have to be a philosopher of science to understand that, in a scientific investigation of the events of 9/11, the range of alternative explanations that might possibly explain the explanandum must include not only (a) jet-plane-impacts/jet-fuel-fire/pancake collapse hypotheses and (b) classic controlled demolition from the bottom up hypotheses but (c) non-classic controlled demolition from the top-down hypotheses. It should be clear that these, in turn, can be refined in terms of (c-1) non-classic controlled demolition from the top-down using thermate and other conventional explosives, (c-2) non-classic controlled demolition from the top-down using mini-nukes, and (c-3) non-classic controlled demolition from the top-down using directed energy weapons. All of these deserve consideration and, to the the best of my knowledge, none of (c-1) to (c-3) has been refuted at this stage of scientific inquiry.

During the course of her interview with me, Judy suggested that the source of the energy required might possibly have been based in space. This is not as fanciful as it might sound, insofar as the US has been pursuing "full spectrum dominance" (of air, sea, land and space!) for some period of time. The very idea of space-based weapons strikes many people as a stretch, if not absurd. But they are trotting out a lot of the same kinds of ridicule and sarcasm as apologists for the official government's account have been advancing to attack those of use who are critics of what we have been told, which is supposed to be "completely ridiculous"! Just listen to O'Reilly or Hannity & Colmes! If we don't consider the full range of possible alternative explanans, we may arrive at false conclusions by eliminating the true hypothesis from serious consideration because it seems farfetched or even absurd.

Cutting-steel using thermate and disintegration-of-steel via directed energy weapons, of course, are different kinds of causal mechanisms, where we have visual evidence of disintegration at work, which may be found on Judy's site and is included in the 16-minute segment from my second lecture in Tucson, a link to which I have given above. Indeed, Judy appears to have done far more to develop her "proof of concept" than has Steve. Some of these research preliminaries are archived:

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsAppendix1.html#Possibilities

Indeed, prototypes have been built and tested, beginning as long ago as 1991! Videos and links to other videos demonstrating the use of Ground Based Lasers (GBLs) may also be found at several links here:

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam6.html#possible
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsAppendix2.html
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsAppendix3.html

Appendix2, for example, includes this about Space Based Lasers (SBLs):

"Talon Gold achieved performance levels equivalent to that needed for the SBL. In 1991, the space-borne Relay Mirror Experiment (RME), relayed a low-power laser beam from a ground site to low-earth orbit and back down to a scoring target board at another location with greater pointing accuracy and beam stability than needed by SBL."

The specific weapons used to destroy the WTC could have been ground based or space based. Judy tends to believe that, whether it was the use of a mirror to reflect an energy beam from Earth or a space-based energy source, it came from above. (My own opinion is that WTC-7 may have played a crucial role here.) If someone suggests that this sounds "loony" or "far out" to them, then I would ask, "How do you know that she's wrong?" It would be scientifically irresponsible not to consider an hypothesis that poses such an intriguing alternative to account for demolishing the WTC, especially given all the evidence she has adduced.

His desire to keep discussion of new, controversial approaches from the public appears to have motivated his attempt to take-over the web site. Personally, I find this rather odd, since all of our research on the events of 9/11 qualifies as "controversial" and the public is entitled to know about new research at the cutting edge. As I have explained in email exchanges, especially, "An Open Letter to Steve Jones", his attempt to take over the site is morally, legally, and intellectually objectionable on many grounds, including that it qualifies as taking something that does not belong to him. I created st911.org and have maintained it from scratch. Because this would affect everyone with a serious interest in Scholars for 9/11 Truth, I am exposing it here.

To the best of my knowledge, Steve has found support among perhaps ten or twelve members of Scholars who are active on the forum. Since our current membership approximates 400, this does not appear to be the majority view. Splinter groups often form when dealing with complex and controversial issues, especially when they have ramifications of a political kind. Everyone who has joined Scholars has joined with the current web site and management of st911.org. If he thinks that he can do better, then I encourage him to resign from Scholars and create his own site. But he should not attempt to take control of a site that I created and maintain, which would display the virtues of theft over honest toil. Those who have opinions they want to express about all this can email hardevidence@gmail.com or jfetzer@d.umn.edu.

James H. Fetzer
Founder and Co-Chair
Scholars for 9/11 Truth

###

As a former associate member and a very active participant in the forums, I can state 10-12 members is a very large portion of the active participants.  Not being a participant of the forum does not imply disagreement with Professor Jones. 

 

Scholars For 9/11 Truth...

Would have been nothing without the work of Professor Steven E. Jones. Fetzer should step down. 9/11 Truth is bigger than ANY one person, no matter how great they think of themselves as being.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Who care who leads the nut

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I' m really beginning to wonder about Fetzer.

Reynolds and Woods are already discredited.

This "Star wars beam weapon" theory is ridiculous. Like something taken from a pulp mag.

Why is Fetzer promoting this BS?.

Yes, Fetzer should step down.

Why...

Did Jim Fetzer cause disruptions in the JFK Movement? Why did Jim Fetzer make a spectacle of himself at a recent JFK Book Signing? Why has Jim Fetzer endorsed, promoted, and defended WingTV? Why did Jim Fetzer promote Barbara Olsen as being alive on National Radio? Why did Jim Fetzer come out of NOWHERE right after Prof. Jones came forward?

Ok, now let's talk about "Space Beams."

I have told Jim Fetzer in the past that this is NOT "Jim Fetzer's 9/11 Truth Movement." This cause is bigger than ANY one person.

He has bitten the hand that fed him. He should step down.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Come on, Jon,,,

We haven't reached the final climactic point of this disinfo crescendo yet -- when Fetzer will be invited back on The O'Reily Factor and Hannity & Colmes to discuss SPACE BEAMS taking down the twin towers. Hell, he'll probably even be the next 9/11 "leader" to appear on Mancow's show.

No, Fetzer isn't going to step down any time soon. He'll just keep popping up whenever he's needed.

Ok then...

I denounce Jim Fetzer. He does not speak for me.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Well that's fine, Jon. You

Well that's fine, Jon. You had better start practising writing the words,
'sorry Jim , I got it wrong."

Oops! I got buried. I feel

Oops! I got buried.

I feel like the woman in Becket's play 'Happy Days'.

I will gladly leave the Scholars group if it continues this way

I do not wish to have my name associated with patently absurd theories. If Steve Jones and Uncle Fetzer part ways, I know whom I'll be following. And you know what? I hope they do part ways.

I don't know what is going

I don't know what is going on with Fetzer, but it's clear to me that the Reynolds and Woods are intentionally disrupting the Scholars. Steve Jones ought to attempt to authenticate his samples and publish a new paper on the results of his studies, preferrably somewhere other than the Scholars for Truth journal. However, Judy Woods and Morgan Reynolds ought to take their supposed research and deposit it in the nearest trash can. The mix of legitimate criticism of Jones along with outlandish theories does indeed smell of intentional disinformation.

Fetzer has been in love with outlandish theories and grandstanding all along. He has frequently presented the worst arguments and ideas in public appearances. I once wrote him to say, despite my differences with his approach and ideas, that I was confident that he was presenting what he thought was the truth. Now I'm not so sure.

edited...

Cause I was bad.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

U-Turn

This space beam may have it's merits.... I have studied many technologies and it is concievable... but this will never garner any public support.

And the amount of time required to even get a sniff of evidence about this is well beyond our time frame.

I know this isn't the direction this movement need to pursue.

this is like trying to make a u-turn at 70 mph.

the question is

not whether or not space based weapons are real--of course they are in some stage of development. the question is were they used on 9/11, and it is so clear that they were not needed, that this was a much more traditional demolition job, that we are right to discard this "research" as disinformation junk. Yet another reason why we need to focus on facts, not personalities.

The more I find out about

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I'll give you a point...

just for having the balls to post that. But I'll then take it away for it being "Anonymous".

What is wrong with

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You can't pick a fake name and stick with it?

Dude, "they" have your IP address already -- what's the problem with a fake name?

No "they" do not!!!

No "they" do not!!!

Hey '"Stallion4" , you

Hey '"Stallion4" , you surely don't endorse DBS, do you? And you so careful not to back outlandish minority views? You are a dark horse.

We need to bring Professor Jones' attention

to this thread or another one, and all the denizens of 911blogger who support him and his attempt to keep disinfo out of the Scholars' site need to express their opinions clearly and firmly. I know he won't have the time to read tens of supportive emails, although those should be written as well.

My opinion:

If one of them has to leave, there is simply no question but that it be Professor Fetzer. The movement cannot afford to lose a scientist and resource like Professor Jones under any circumstances.

Except J. Fetzer founded the site.

And invited on Mr. Jones.

Why don't you start a new site for Jones, Casseia?

You wouldn't want your idol guilty of theft, with you as an accessory?

Exactly for what reason is Jones' theory "better."

Just because you think it's more "acceptable" and the other theory is, "obviously" false?

Isn't the entire 9/11 Truth movement written off as "obviously false." So I guess that's a really good reason to disparage something?

"Fetzer founded the site."

I'd say that's next to irrelevant. The work of Steven Jones is and always has been the thing that made people visit and recommend it.

"Because you think it's more acceptable..."

Because Jones' work is consistent with conventional scientific methodology and Wood's work is not.

if Jones's work is so

if Jones's work is so scientifically acceptable, why hasn't he published his Thermite findings ?

i am sure he is a lovely guy, but I don't find his onscreen manner very impressive. Nor did I find "Why Indeed Did The Twin Towers Collapse?" anywhere near as scientific and well-referenced or argued as Griffin's " The Destruction of the World Trade Center:Why The Official Version Cannot Be True".

Jones is in a difficult position too , with his history in alternative energy research,
now seeking to quash all talk of alternative weapons on 9/11.

What does the Scholars

What do the Scholars bylaws say about control of the website and how does the collective membership assert its will? Is there an annual meeting where members can vote up a slate of representatives? Could a vote be taken by mail or over the internet? Fetzer points out that there are 400 members in the Scholars. I say ask them if they want Space Beams and hologram planes to be a key issue for the group. Ask them if they would prefer Jones to Fetzer.

Scholars or Space Cadets?

Wood and Reynolds are promoting pure lunacy. It doesn't matter if there's a very remote chance they could be correct. How many people are willing to accept: (a) 9/11 was an inside job, and (b) the World Trade Center was destroyed by a space beam? I'll tell you how many: about 3, and they should all leave Scholars for 9/11 Truth because they're making everyone look foolish.

If Jones wants credibility, he must establish an unquestionable chain of custody for his WTC sample.

If Fetzer, Wood, and Reynolds don't jump ship, they're going to drag what's left of 9/11 Truth down with them.

Of course, Fetzer has a book coming out in the new year, so I don't imagine he's going anywhere.

With 911 Scholars in such

With 911 Scholars in such disarray, the Democrates backing off from investigations, and no-one in the MSM willing to cover 9/11 Truth - the movement is dead unless....

Unless a massive march on washington can be organized and people start focusing on the need for a new investigation and stop trying to solve the crime from a 100,000 foot view (i.e., not access to real evidence and testimonies).

For people like J.F. who think that we can all just sit back and talk about every single theory and not have that hurt the truth movement, they are not living in the real world. Once this starwars beam weapon idea is linked to the 911 scholars by the MSM, all credibility will have been lost (and rightly so).

LC Final Cut is the last chance.

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new shill category for the taxonomy: Doomshiller

Doomshiller - a shill whose job it is to demoralize people in the movement by pointing out minor irritations and making them out to be "the death of the movement" one tactic used by a Doomshiler is to pin the hopes of the movement to a single thing, like, say, the release of LCFinal Cut. Now just suppose theoretically that LC Final Cut came out, and it just so happened that Dylan and Korey and the other guy were disinfo all along (remember this is purely to make a point--i don't actually think that's the case) and the film is rife with references to space beams, elvis sightings, etc. Impressionable truthers who remember what the Doomshiller said MIGHT (in the shills dreams) say--OH MY GOD--that gloomy anonymous truther was right! We're screwed! The movement is over! And if enough people are sick of truthing, the prophecy could self-fulfill.

I suggest Doomshiller for lack of a better term. If anyone has any other suggestions for a good name for this type of shill, please share! We really should create a 9/11 truth glossary...

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

Another kind of disinfo

Another kind of disinfo tactic is to constantly go on the attack and call people shills based on flimsy or no evidence thus muddying the water.

you'd know about that.

you'd know about that.