Smoke from WTC 7

Defenders of the official story about the collapse of WTC 7 often show photographs of the South side of the building to bolster the claim that raging fires caused building 7 to collapse.

However, the following photos from the North side indicate that the huge quantities of smoke may actually have come from an entirely different building: WTC 5.

Look at these photos also:

Update # 1: 911Veritas has this: "The quality is not great, but this screensnap was from video taken across the Hudson at the exact moment the building started to collapse.

You can see the amount of smoke added to the plume from where the towers came down + WTC5/6.

Wind is blowing north-easterly."

Update # 2: A few videos pointed out by a reader seem to cloud the issue:

A physicist who has viewed these videos states:

"Actually, it may be that the smoke in these videos/photos is rising up the south face of WTC 7 rather than emerging from 7... A video showing the bottom of 7 and ANY FLAMES would be helpful."

Update # 3: Our updated conclusion is that some some did come from Building 7 itself, but that much of the smoke came from buildings 5 and 6. Additional images showing the base of Building 7 later in the day will be helpful in determining the respective contributions of smoke from the various buildings.

Credit goes to Robert Moore for the catch.

WTC7 at 5:20pm from across the Hudson.

The quality is not great, but this screensnap was from video taken across the Hudson at the exact moment the building started to collapse.

You can see the amount of smoke added to the plume from where the towers came down + WTC5/6.

Wind is blowing north-easterly.

PS... I would guess the photos GW posted are mid to late afternoon 2pm onwards. I have some close-ups from earlier (when western face of WTC6 is still in the shade)

A few more WTC6 / GZ Smoke Pics...

A few from around noon

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Best wishes

WTC7 Collapse Eyewitness Story by Local NY Couple

Credit to heliweli of Pilotsfor911truth forums for this find...

Some interesting bits, which should be saved from the memory hole.

Original Link :

November 23, 2003 (Snippets)

What we did have a good view of was World Trade Center Seven, clearly visible through the towers of Battery Park City. If you don't remember anything about World Trade Center Seven, I can't really blame you; it's hardly been discussed, and wasn't a source of much news speculation even on that day. But Building Seven was a big skyscraper by any standard, and it, too collapsed on September 11. We watched that collapse happen in real-time.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist; I don't go in for that junk. I'm very patriotic, and I believe in my elected officials -- I even write songs about them. But nothing said in the official (and largely unpublicised) story about the cause of the collapse of World Trade Center Seven jibes with what we witnessed that day. If the government story of the events at the Twin Towers have always seemed fishy and incomplete, I know damned well the few official accounts of the collapse of Building Seven are fishy and incomplete. More than anything else, it's been my weird feelings about Building Seven that have prevented me from wanting to go back to the impact site.

Back before I moved to Jersey City, I used to use the WTC PATH train station occasionally. I also took several trips to the observation deck. And while I sometimes space on names and faces, my sense of direction, interior map, and the layout of the city has always been frighteningly reliable. So I knew where the North Tower stood relative to Building Seven, and I probably knew that if I took a trip down to ground zero, I'd be unnerved. I'm going to write a little more about World Trade Center Seven tomorrow

November 24, 2003

I said I'd talk a little bit more about WTC7, and for better or for worse, I'm as good as my word. After this, it's back to rock and roll posts, but I'm also adjusting to the new World Trade Center station, and actively making it a central feature of my life here in Jersey City. And I can't do that without exorcising a few demons. So bear with me.

World Trade Center 7 was, like most downtown Manhattan buildings, quite literally in the shadow of the Twin Towers. That said, it was around fifty stories tall and was, by any estimation, a skyscraper. It didn't sit on the same megablock as the Towers (as far as I know, it was the only building in the World Trade Center complex that didn't); you had to cross Vesey Street to reach it. Another building -- World Trade Center 6 -- stood in between the North Tower and Building Seven. Building Six was nowhere near as large as Building Seven, but it wasn't any Quonset hut, either.

Like the Twin Towers, WTC7 was a steel-framed building. It was connected to the rest of the complex by a walkway that arched over the street -- cast your mind back to the way Vesey used to be, and I'm sure you'll remember what that looked like. From our vantage point atop the palisade, we could see the top stories of the trapezoidal structure peeking out between the skyscrapers of Battery Park City.

On September 11, 2001, we watched the skyline from the terrace at the hi-vue. We saw the ball of flame from the South Tower impact and the huge expanding cloud of black smoke from the burning upper stories of Buildings One and Two. With brief interruptions, starting at 8:45 AM, we were out on the terrace all day that day. I've noticed that certain news agencies have been slippery with the timeline, but I had both a wall clock (set to the TV) and the computer clock in the room we were standing in, so nobody's going to tell me my timeline is incorrect. The South Tower fell at 9:58 A.M.

The collapse further confused an already chaotic picture, but at no point was it unclear what was going on. The residue -- almost entirely white powder -- seemed surprisingly discrete, and it wasn't hard to follow its billowing contours. Readily acknowledging that I was almost entirely out of my head with horror at the time, I'm still unwilling to discount my empirical experience. Just before the fall of the North Tower, we saw a large explosion coming from the street-level area around World Trade Center 7. I remember thinking that it looked distinctly like a bomb had been detonated underneath the city, and, of course, that's exactly what I thought had occurred.

I went back into the living room to see if anything had been reported on the news about WTC7. Consequently, I missed the start of the fall of the North Tower, but that's not what I'm getting at here. At no point that morning did CNN or MSNBC have anything to say about the detonation I'd witnessed, and to this day, I still haven't heard any discussion of the undeniable event that took place either beneath or at Vesey Street during the half-hour interim between the collapse of the Towers.

After the fall of the North Tower, I watched WTC7 from across the river. It didn't seem to be smoking, but then again, my vantage obscured its south side. At about a quarter after four, the news did in fact report that World Trade Center 7 was burning. I was relieved to hear somebody acknowledge that the building existed, and I expected to hear some kind of report about the explosion I saw.

None ever came. Instead, the fires at WTC7 were blamed on falling debris from the North Tower. This sounds logical until you actually start to think about it. In order for the (mostly) cold detritus of the North Tower to start a blaze in Building Seven, it would have to clear both Vesey Street and the very substantial WTC6 and break down the front wall. Well, okay, maybe that's not impossible. But if it had happened that way, you couldn't have predicted what came next.

At 5:20 P.M., WTC7 collapsed. I watched it happen from across the river, and no revisionism is going to screw with my recollection here -- the building came down straight and flat, as if supports beneath it had been cut. I'm no physics student, but you don't have to be one to realize that a burning building would never have fallen that way. Fires just don't burn symmetrically. South side fires, caused by contact with burning material from the North Tower, would have prompted a collapse across Vesey Street, in the direction of Ground Zero. Bear in mind, again, that this was a major skyscraper -- more than forty floors. For WTC7 to have pancaked as it did, it would have had to have been experiencing structural weakness at all sides.

The unnerving media silence about Building Seven was later broken by a tentative explanation that, again, makes no sense. According to FEMA, huge tanks of diesel fuel stored in the basement may have caught fire, substantially weakening the steel. (This official story, by the way, is mostly guesswork -- there's no proof at all that the diesel fuel was in any way involved). Although they knew of the existence of the diesel fuel, firefighters opted against entering WTC7 and putting out the blaze. Strange, huh? Remember, the North Tower collapsed at 10:30. The city had seven hours to react to the fires that had, ostensibly, been caused by its fall. It's worth remembering that no steel-framed building has ever collapsed due to fire, diesel or otherwise.

I don't know what happened at WTC7, but everything I witnessed suggests strongly that the official line is dead wrong. No plane slammed into the skyscraper, and when it fell, it fell exactly as it would have if it had been demolished by contractors. The debris fell in a straight cone, directly onto the foundation of the building. Media silence about the collapse has been frightening in its totality; WTC7 is almost never discussed, and on the few occasions when it is, the FEMA line has been repeated more or less unquestioned. More bothersome to me is that the strange explosion I saw coming from Building Seven between the Tower collapses has never, to my knowledge, even been acknowledged by the city or the government.

I'm not the sort of person who kicks at the teeth of the official story; for the most part, that's a thankless task. But sometimes, the official story is so obviously incorrect that it absolutely needs to be challenged. That almost nobody has stood up to make that challenge continues to mystify me.

Just wanted to share, best wishes

Pyroclastic flow

of smoke will often cling to the sides of adjacent buildings , something witnessed frequently in controlled demolitions.

I know what you mean...

But all the pics posted by GW are at least a couple of hours after WTC1 and 2 came down.

In all of the above pics it looks like smoke, not dust.

Best wishes


I wasn't actually refering to your post.

This shot

Showing the steel perimeter beams sticking out of the building beside the Winter Garden Atrium - that's 450-480 feet away from the North Tower from which they must have been EJECTED. 


As seen here

(ignore comment about the holes, which we know werre caused by falling debris, and not a "beam")

If you examine the WTC1 collapse videos...

From north on West St... You can see that a massive portion of the western outer columns fall away from the north tower towards the Winter Garden and Three World Financial Center.

If you look at videos of WTC1 "coming down", you can see that the north-west corner is almost "unzipped" by the charges, releasing the center columns to topple.

This is what I believe caused that damage, see below GIF for an idea.

Here's another one, no WTC7 in the way from further to the west

Best wishes

Picking nits on that last screen shot

And how did they KNOW it was a "terrorist" attack?

I could see "attacks"--just this rush to act knowledgable, yet caught by surprise.

Course it could be a meme established in the 1993 bombings. Sorry, it just irritates me...and where was the huge fire? Perhaps they meant huge fire-ball....

Now seeing these clips while I type how can anyone NOT see explosives are involved?

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.


Had anyone seen the banner which was hung across the pedestrian walkway on 911.... It was somewhat unusual.

It simply read

Which takes you to the webite of one of the most prolific propogandists of all time John Milton

"In 1646, he published a collection of poems, but politics was still his main occupation. Besides the pamphlets, he became Secretary for Foreign Tongues under the new Commonwealth and their official propagandist. He always felt that the Commonwealth failed to reach its full potential and disapproved of Oliver Cromwell's dictatorial ways after declaring himself Lord Protector of the Commonwealth."

When the Assault Was Intended to the City
By John Milton

"Captain, or colonel, or knight in arms,
Whose chance on these defenceless doors may seize,
If deed of honour did thee ever please,
Guard them, and him within protect from harms.

He can requite thee, for he knows the charms
That call fame on such gentle acts as these,

And he can spread thy name o’er lands and seas,
Whatever clime the sun’s bright circle warms.

Lift not thy spear against the Muse’s bower;
The great Emathian conqueror bid spare

The house of Pindarus, when temple and tower
Went to the ground; and the repeated air

Of sad Electra’s Poet had the power
To save the Athenian walls from ruin bare. "

The Passion
By John Milton

"Erewhile of music, and ethereal mirth,
Wherewith the stage of Air and Earth did ring,

And joyous news of heavenly Infant’s birth,
My muse with Angels did divide to sing;
But headlong joy is ever on the wing,
In wintry solstice like the shortened light
Soon swallowed up in dark and long outliving night.


For now to sorrow must I tune my song,
And set my Harp to notes of saddest woe,

Which on our dearest Lord did seize ere long,
Dangers, and snares, and wrongs, and worse than so,

Which he for us did freely undergo:

Most perfect Hero, tried in heaviest plight
Of labours huge and hard, too hard for human wight!


He, sovran Priest, stooping his regal head,
That dropt with odorous oil down his fair eyes,
Poor fleshly Tabernacle entered,

His starry front low-roofed beneath the skies:
Oh, what a mask was there, what a disguise!
Yet more: the stroke of death he must abide;
Then lies him meekly down fast by his Brethren’s side.


These latest scenes confine my roving verse;
To this horizon is my Phobus bound.
His godlike acts, and his temptations fierce,
And former sufferings, otherwhere are found;
Loud o’er the rest Cremona’s trump doth sound:
Me softer airs befit, and softer strings
Of lute, or viol still, more apt for mournful things.


Befriend me, Night, best Patroness of grief!
Over the pole thy thickest mantle throw,
And work my flattered fancy to belief
That Heaven and Earth are coloured with my woe;

My sorrows are too dark for day to know:
The leaves should all be black whereon I write,
And letters, where my tears have washed, a wannish white.


See, see the chariot, and those rushing wheels,
That whirled the prophet up at Chebar flood;
My spirit some transporting Cherub feels
To bear me where the Towers of Salem stood,

Once glorious towers, now sunk in guiltless blood.
There doth my soul in holy vision sit,
In pensive trance, and anguish, and ecstatic fit.


Mine eye hath found that sad sepulchral rock
That was the casket of Heaven’s richest store,
And here, though grief my feeble hands up-lock,
Yet on the softened quarry would I score
My plaining verse as lively as before;
For sure so well instructed are my tears
That they would fitly fall in ordered characters.


Or, should I thence, hurried on viewless wing,
Take up a weeping on the mountains wild,
The gentle neighbourhood of grove and spring
Would soon unbosom all their Echoes mild;
And I (for grief is easily beguiled)
Might think the infection of my sorrows loud
Had got a race of mourners on some pregnant cloud."

All very strange and eerie writings....especially VI of Passion

There are little bits of weird in all the listed writings

He also wrote "Paradise Lost" and "Samson Agonistes"..... WOW!... the little secrets hidden with-in are mind blowing. Check it out. I really do not think this is simply my interpretation.

I have yet to figure out why that banner was hanging over thaty walkway plain as day.... or what it's significance was to that time or Milton's connection to New York or Quebec?
Together in Truth!

Can see banner over walkway here

Well, that link says I"m

Well, that link says I"m "FORBIDDEN". Obviously I"m not cool enough to see it... ;-)

It wouldnt surprise me that much of the "traditional" or "old" poets and their poetry had political connotations. Meanings get lost through time and the older lingos that make everything they wrote appear to be stuffy and proper but was either how everyone spoke or a very stylized literary form. (Compare Shakespeare and Marlowe to see this difference: Elizabethians did NOT speak like characters in Shakespeare"s plays. He was using a VERY stylized form of blank verse. Want to know how they probably spoke, read Marlowe--he reads almost like the post-modern English we know. At least to me.)

And, much like broadcasters in the McCarthy era took refuge in "fantasy" to safly make their points(Rod Serling), poets in earlier times too refuge in poetry and plays--nothing to see here! Then again in many case people knew exactly what they meant, but modern educators gloss over their political meanings.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

This link work for the photo...

The banner was promoting a cultural-touristic event by the Quebec government aiming to the business crowd in New-York. See this link

The owner of the domain name have change since then.

Ejected? No.

This is a reply that I previously posted to 911Blogger user "Real Truther" sometime in late-2006, in response to a "truth" poster that he/she had created and Blogged about at this website.

The 600,000 pound steel section embedded in the facade at floor 19 of the 51 story Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) is from the upper floors of the North towers' Westside exterior wall.

When the top section of the North tower began its collapse, significant amounts of the upper South, West and Northside exterior walls were forcibly pushed outward, the height and momentum allowed some of the exteriors walls' heavy steel sections from the West and Northside to reach (and damage) buildings hundreds of feet from the North towers' base.

Namely, the Southside of Seven World Trade Center (7 WTC) to the North, and the Southside corner of Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) to the West, with some of the North towers' upper Southside exterior wall crushing what remained standing of the Marriott hotel to the South of the North tower, after it was severly damaged, mainly by steel sections from part of the collapsing South towers' Westside exterior wall.

If the South tower started its collapse more "straight down" like the North tower, there would have probably been significant amounts of steel sections from its Westside exterior wall embedded in the facade of Two World Financial Center (2 WFC) and/or Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) also. The top "block" of the South tower, however, started (and continued) its collapse Eastward toward Church Street, with the majority of steel sections from the South towers' Eastside exterior wall reaching all the way to Church Street.

The furthest any of the steel section from the South towers' Westside exterior wall made it toward Two World Financial Center (2 WFC) was only halfway across West Street (Westside Highway,) where 9/11 victim/photographer Bill Biggart -- only minutes prior to his death on West Street from being crushed by debris during the collapse of the North tower -- photographed a few steel sections from the South towers' Westside exterior wall sticking up in the middle of West Street, embedded in the ground in front of the severly damaged Marriott hotel.

In the following video of the North towers' collapse, from 0:09 to 0:14, you see a section of (high) upper Westside exterior wall begin its forcible height/momentum collapse toward and into the general area of Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) that the 600,000 pound exterior wall steel section was embedded.

Press play

The following three satellite images show steel sections from the North towers' Westside exterior wall piled up at the World Financial Center Winter Gardens' West Street entrance. The red arrow in the one image is pointed at the 600,000 pound steel section embedded in the facade at floor 19 of Three World Financial Center (3 WFC). The two non-satellite images show: 1) View from above the Winter Garden: looking toward the ground in the direction of West Street at the large pile of steel sections from the North towers' Westside exterior wall piled up at the World Financial Center Winter Gardens' West Street entrance. 2) Inside the West Street entrance of the Winter Garden: steel section (and other steel debris) at the bottom of the marble stairs.

Click to expand

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So is it surprising to see one small steel section from the North towers' Westside exterior wall embedded in the facade of the Three World Financial Center (3 WFC), only 1/3 of the way up? No.

And other steel section(s) from the North towers' Westside exterior wall -- maybe originally attached to the embedded section (at floor 19,) at time of impact with Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) -- crushed a significant portion of the corner of Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) only 10 stories below the embedded section (Second & third image.) Fourth image shows temporary supports (blue) holding up damaged support columns at the World Financial Center Winter Gardens' West Street entrance, which is obviously the area that the steel section inside the Winter Garden at the bottom of the marble stairs, smashed through.

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You can't forget how tall the towers were compared to Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) -- twice the height. Couple that with the extreme weight and force of the top of the North tower smashing down on the lower floors and walls; exterior walls very forcibly being pushed outward with LOTS of momentum and height, allowing them to reach a significant distance, even with the weight of the steel.

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A few hundred feet may seem far, but it isn't like the steel section that was embedded in Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) was embedded in the top of the building or something. It tore into the facade at floor 25 and came to rest at floor 19 -- less than half the height of the 51 story Three World Financial Center (3 WFC), and less than a quarter the height of the North towers' main above ground structure, not including the antenna.

The steel sections from the North towers' Westside exterior wall reached virtually the same distance as the South towers' Eastside exterior wall, when the top tilted and collapsed Eastward all the way to Church Street. Same distance, virtually the same tower height. The South towers' top had more momentum, because it was a lot heavier of a "chunk."

The amount of steel sections from the North towers' Westside exterior wall that collapsed toward Three World Financial Center (3 WFC), weighed much less. So, even though they were sent flying with tremendous force from the North towers' top section smashing down, they required less force to feed their momentum because they were less weight. Also, they fell from a higher collapse start point.

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I uploaded the following video clip of the South towers' collapse, filmed from Church Street looking south-west. You can see the top of the South tower collapse to Church Street. It doesn't -- as some people promote -- explode in mid-air and/or straighten itself back toward the Westside, collapsing straight down into the towers' footprint.

Press play

I can't find it, but somewhere on the Internet is a better angle, filmed from Church Street, a bit further North. It shows a much steadier, fuller view of the South tower collapsing to Church Street. If anyone knows where it is, please post it. I looked and looked and looked, but couldn't find it.

In the first following image, the green arrows (and circle) represent the vantage point and line of sight of the better video that I can't find. The second image shows the debris field from the South towers' Eastside exterior wall (and more of the top of the tower) stretching all the way to Church Street.

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The following images are of the Marriott hotel, at the Westside base of the South tower. The first image is shortly before the North tower collapsed. It shows the Marriott severely damaged from the collapse of the South tower, and a few large sections of the South towers' Westside exterior wall that made it as far as the center of West Street. They might have made it further toward Two World Financial Center (2 WFC), but most of the South tower collapsed (sending its momentum) East and East-south. The second image is the last picture that the photographer Bill Biggart ever took. It shows a close-up, more visible view of the first image. It was timestamped 10:28am, moments before the collapse of the North tower. Even without a lot of momentum during the South towers' collapse, as the majority of the tower collapsed in the opposite direction, large steel sections of the South towers' Westside exterior wall still collapsed half way across West Street and embedded themselves into the ground.

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Bill Biggart, as you read above, was killed on West Street from being crushed by debris during the collapse of the North tower. The incredible photograph's are surely important and appreciated, Bill! R.I.P.
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The following images show all that was left of the Marriott after the collapse of the North tower. The Marriott is outlined with a green box.

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In sum, the steel section in the facade at floor 19 of Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) got there by collapsing from high up on the North towers' Westside exterior wall, height working to its advantage, and LOTS of momentum from the tremendous weight and pressure of the top section of the North tower smashing virtually straight down, forcibly pushing it Westward, while also sending steel flying toward and into Seven World Trade Center (7 WTC) to the North, onto the base of the South tower and the Marriott to the South, and then proceding to collapse East, which is where you see the Antenna tilt toward a few seconds into collapse.


The - Ø®£Z - watermark on many of the high-resolution images is to deter any would-be disinfo peddlers and the like from taking the images to use them to promote some nonsense. The pictures are not mine. I only put the watermark there as a deterent. I won't be reading/ commenting further in this Blog, so any reply won't be read by me.

" I wont be reading\

" I wont be reading\ commenting further in this Blog, so any reply wont be read by me."


You might not reply, but of course youre coming back to read. After you posted all that lot? Please--who do you think youre fooling?

Some advice chum, sign up for a review of your basic physics at your local community college:

"You can't forget how tall the towers were compared to Three World Financial Center (3 WFC) -- twice the height. Couple that with the extreme weight and force of the top of the North tower smashing down on the lower floors and walls; exterior walls very forcibly being pushed outward with LOTS of momentum and height, allowing them to reach a significant distance, even with the weight of the steel. "

"LOTS of momentum and height" is a meaningless statement . Unless some mechanism removed resistance under the top of the towers you have "smashing through" the rest, they had NO momentum. And even if they did, momentum and hiegth, by themselves, cannot produce lateral effects; for that energy must be added to the system.

But continue with your folk "explainations" of physics that avoid the precise scientific use of "momentum"and "force"; I'm sure it's a much more comforting world for you that way.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Looking at these videos it

Looking at these videos it seems that (at least some of the) smoke does come from WTC7. What seems to be missing in the videos are flames. Where are the flames?

There's a strange dark 'band' visible in that last video. Any ideas what that might be?

Please watch my movie: WTC7 The Smoking Gun of 9/11

I see it consistently in other videos including your first one

I t seems like someone is using the smokescreen from 5 and 1&2 to set off preliminary charges with all the flashes and plumes (squib). I don't know what the band is , I hope someone does as it's important to know.

arie, that Black Mark is Peculiar...

In your above picture the bottom of the mark is on the 29th floor and is about 8 floors in height (approx).

Not seen it in any other videos...

Dylan Avery got hold of some high quality and unseen footage of the south face in September 2006, this "black mark" might be visible in the full copy, I seen it once and cannot recall the "black mark" but it's been pulled off youtube, so cannot double check, you can still download the high quality [ SAMPLE ] to get an idea.

More info :

You could email him..., he might know off the top of his head...

Going back to the "black mark", I just zoomed in on the below picture and it might be a soot mark, not as well defined as in your video, but download the image and zoom in, see what you think.

Free Image Hosting at

Best wishes

Probable wind effects

(Click links for hi-rez versions)

I believe it is quite possible that a large amount of this smoke is due to wind and air pressure effects that cause the smoke from WTC6 to hug the building and make it appear as though every floor is engulfed. If you don't believe me, you can see this exact same effect when WTC2 collapses: The dust hugs the North Tower and it looks like every floor of the North Tower is on fire:

These photo's were taken from These photos are an excellent resource and I urge everyone to take a look at them.

Great post Richard. Those

Great post Richard. Those pictures are great. This article by GZ is really good.

I agree 100 percent ...

... with everyone's observations.

I've discussed this with several people who know a great deal about aerodynamics, including a professional racing team sailboat builder and skipper, and they all agree that - while the airflow accelerates near the corners in the direction of the wind - the flow reverses towards the center of the leeward wall, which is precisely what we observe on WTC-7.

I only talked theory with these people, never mentioned WTC-7 or even why I asked them, so it's safe to say they were unbiased.

By the way, I came to these conclusions independently and posted them to the Randi Rhodes board, three times. Nobody ever even attempted to refute the argument. :-D Can't find the 1st anymore but here are the 2nd and 3rd:

Post #32 in this thread (2/28/2007):

Post #4 in this recent one (4/3/2007):

(the numbers are at the top right of each post)

I would love to see somebody pick up on the idea I proposed in the last one, namely to re-enact the scenario in a model setup - cardboard or plywood box "buildings", fans to produce "wind" and a smoke source - and videotape the results. May take quite some time to get smoke density and airspeed right but otherwise it should be a fairly simple setup.

Or maybe there's an existing study on this, done years ago? Maybe even by NIST? That'd be the ultimate irony ..... :-D

Another quick argument no-one can refute: Every station wagon / hatchback / minivan driver should know that you're not supposed to drive with an open back door (say, when hauling some long piece) without opening at least one window in the front as well. Why? The exhaust fumes will creep into your car.

Keep up your great job, folks! :-)

Welcome to the Monkeyhouse.

DanR is one of the good guys.

Thank you for the welcome :-)

I'm just trying to keep a level head :-D

Correct me if I'm wrong...

...But I'm sure some of these posts had alot more than "0" points at one time--and some had much more than "3". The only post higher than "3" is the new one by Dan.

Some of us have had suspicions registered trolls go back and rate down comments, as well as blogs long after the thread is cold--and this one wasn't that long ago!

Not that we're so ego obsessed that it's a great trama if our comment that had once been "5" is now "0", but if true, it proves there is an organized effort at disruption.

Right. Now I agree with bruce 1337--time to make comment rating and blog votes public, as opposed to annonymous.

I know dz and "his little helpers" are busy, but maybe we should have one of those blog polls at least?

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.