Some truths that must be faced by the 9/11 Truth movement and what to do about them

Why we need to focus more intently on the goal of getting Congress to authorize a new investigation into 9/11.

Part One:

1) We have very strong evidence that the official story is false.

2) We do NOT have evidence strong enough to lead any prosecutor to take the case to court.

3) We will probably NOT find any new material evidence (WTC steel, dust, material proof of explosives). And even if we did find it, it would not have a reliable chain of custody and so would be mostly worthless.

4) We are not supported by any major institutions--mainstream media, academia, the gov't, etc.--though there are a fair number of individuals in some of these institutions who do support us.

5) As a movement, we do not have a clear goal.

Some conclusions that can be drawn from these points:

1) Haggling over space beams or thermite is a waste of time for most of us because neither case can be proved due to a lack of strong material evidence for either. It is fine for some people to spend time on this question.

2) The most likely way to get more evidence is through testimony taken under oath. This sort of testimony will highlight scores of contradictions and produce numerous new leads. Since no prosecutor in the US is likely to take this case to court any time soon, our best option is to press Congress for a new investigation. To those who say this is a waste of time, I ask what do you propose instead?

3) A movement without a clear goal is a movement that weakens itself. We can and should continue with all that people are doing now, but
it is important that there be a greater sense of direction and urgency. I believe that our main goal should be getting Congress to authorize a new investigation immediately.

Part Two:

1) When we speak in public (especially short TV slots), our lack of a coherent argument and a clear and urgent goal often makes us look like lonely kooks or confused in our thinking.

2) As individuals, many of us have similar problems when discussing 9/11 with friends or others.

A conclusion that can be drawn from these points:

The best general argument for 9/11 truth is this:

The official story is wrong and therefore we need a new investigation immediately.

This is the best general argument because it is clear, concise, goal-oriented, appeals to reason, and is in perfect accord with the scientific method.

Notice that this argument does not seek to prove what happened, but only to show that the official story must be false and that therefore we need to find a new theory through a new investigation.

This argument is relatively easy to defend because it is rational and pragmatic. It expresses urgency ("immediately") and in so doing also shows a high level of certitude on the part of the speaker/writer.

It also fits perfectly with the conclusion reached in Part One above.

Overall conclusion:

Due to reasons cited above, the 9/11 Truth movement should do more to focus on the goal of getting Congress to authorize a new investigation into 9/11. This conclusion is supported by the evidence we now have and the evidence we will surely need in the future. It is in good accord with the scientific method, and is likely to appeal to a wide audience as it is clear, rational, pragmatic, and respectful of the normal political process.

You say

"We do NOT have evidence strong enough to lead any prosecutor to take the case to court."

I completely disagree. Our evidence IS strong enough.

But prosecutors largely make decisions based upon political considerations and on whether it will help advance their career.

Have you ever watched "Boston Legal"?

We are really making more or

We are really making more or less the same point.
How about putting it this way, "Due to the political and career considerations that govern the actions of most prosecutors, we do NOT have evidence strong enough to lead any prosecutor to take the case to court."
We don't and they won't. Let's just face that fact.
Also, it is very unlikely that any new physical evidence is going to be found for reasons stated above.
That leaves our best option as testimony given under oath, and that means a new Congessional investigation.
I hope and pray that some prosecutor will try this case and I hope and pray that a really good deep-throat steps forward. But I cannot do much to make either of those things happen. And we can't just wait around.
A movement needs a clear goal supported by a clear and rational argument.
If anyone has a better argument and goal than a new investigation, I would like to know what it is.

(Might be good if someone with a lot of money offered a huge reward for info leading to the conviction.... That might also work.)

Alivin, you sound rather naive to me. Please realize that we

have tons of evidence demonstrating the inside job memorialized on video for all of eternity to see!

BINGO!

BINGO!
_______________________
"Cogito ergo sum"

Colombo, I am well aware of

Colombo, I am well aware of the evidence.
But, what are you going to accomplish with it?
As said, no prosecutor is going to take it to court.
If one does, I will be overjoyed, but until that happens, we need focus and clarity.
We need to think strategically, not just tactically.
If we have no generally accepted goal, we will not be effective.
The most reasonable argument we now have is that the official story is not supported by the evidence. This is the next logical step and the next step in the scientific method.
When people argue/discuss 9/11, this step should be uppermost in their mind. Since the official theory is wrong, we need to look for a new one. And that means a new investigation.
The videos and photos and eye-witness accounts indicate that something other than the official story happened, but they do not prove who did it or how.
Only testimony under oath will give us that evidence.
Where are you going to get that testimony?
And if you believe it is not needed, what are you planning to do with what we have now?
My suggestions are practical and strategic. What do you propose?

I agree with #1

I disagree with #2, #3, #4 & #5; so I didn't bother to read Part Two.
_______________________
"Cogito ergo sum"

Kind of Disagree. Agree. Agree. Disagree.

I think we probably have enough evidence to bring before a Grand Jury, but not to take to court.

And most prosecutions are either a little or a lot politically motivated. 9/11 would be almost 100% politically motivated.

"Fictional TV Court Shows" are not even close to real life court.

Something like this can really only be done as a Congressional Investigation with a Special Prosecutor.

The 9/11 Commission was not a Congressional Investigation. (purposely, imo)

I don't think Bush and the current Congress are going to allow a Congressional Investigation with a Special Prosecutor.

I think the 9/11 Truth and Justice Movement does have a fairly clear goal — a new investigation into 9/11. Almost everyone I talk to says that is the goal. (there are some who say otherwise, but I think they are in the minority)

The only thing that will coalesce the movement and make it more organized is time.

I don't think Alvin R has his fingers on the pulse of the movement.

We need the people behind us, and we need the media behind us. Without those, nothing is going to happen.

----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent

http://www.chico911truth.org/

9/11 — GET rEVENge! (in a peaceful manner, of course)

"The only thing that will

"The only thing that will coalesce the movement and make it more organized is time."

Thought will also do that.

Thought, focus, and clear, practical goals. That is the essence of all successful politics.

Educating the Public.

Alvin. What makes you think a new investigation will cover the topics we think are necessary. They could easily have a 9/11 Commission Report - part deux that is as incompetent as the first one. Second. We've tried to get our Representatives to cover it and they won't touch it with a ten foot pole. I haven't given up hope on these things, but I think it is just as important for us to spend our time educating the public about our concerns. Few people I talk to have any sources of information regarding 9/11. Few go to the websites, or see the movies we've seen. We need to educate the public as importanly as reaching our Congressman. Kucinich, Paul, McKinney, Waxman, etc have all failed to get the ball rolling. The Power ultimately lies with the public in my opinion. Hopefully an educated public can talk more journalists into covering these topics and the Congress will have to address the problems. Especially as we confront them at every town hall meeting and public appearance they MAKE!!!! My Goals.

- RAise Noise.
- Educate the Community
- Speak with local Journalists.
- Confront politicians at every public appearance
- Video it all and share it.
- Formulate coherent strategies of dealing with Nat'l Media
- Continue to compile facts of the case for a future date in court.

I don't know. I just want this stuff to work. I'm as sick as anybody about the state of our nation.

A new investigation is the

A new investigation is the only way to get testimony under oath.
I just don't see any other way.
I agree with everything you say above, except I also believe that we should have a clear goal. And I can't think of a better one than a new investigation.
If one is opened, it will be tough for them to do the cover-up again. Many of us will be watching. There was a new investigation in 1978 into JFK and others and they at least concluded that there was more than one gunman in Dallas. But I don't want to wait 15 years.
If we focus, I believe we can do it. Also, we will do next to nothing by not focusing. All that will give us is a great many people dissatisfied with the US gov't. The feeling will be diffuse and it won't accomplish much.
As said, I agree with all of the activist points you list above. I just want to add to them the goal of a new investigation. This gives people focus, a clear and persuasvie argument, and it uses this very corrupt system as it was supposed to be used.
People are strong, but the will of the people must be focused.

if they ever happen .....

you could see if we could get some ?s in during impeachment hearings. I honestly think that is the hardest place to run from the truth. Now logisticly making it happen, that's another story.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." ---- Mark Twain

A new investigation will be futile

Just one point I disagree on:

"The best general argument for 9/11 truth is this:
The official story is wrong and therefore we need a new investigation immediately."

It is unlikely a new investigation, all other things being equal, would produce a different result today than the original 9-11 Commission did. And should that happen, it would be to the detriment of the 9-11 Truth, since there would now have been not one, but TWO "independent" "investigations", both "proving" the official story. A new investigation now will not lead anywhere, because the state will use all the mechanisms it controls to determine a favorable outcome. Just one example - imagine the courts put a gag on David Ray Griffin, Daniel Hopsicker, Webster Tarpley et al just like they did with Sibel Edmonds, for "reasons of state security". Where will we be then?

If the 9-11 Truth movement is to succeed, I think, it must happen bottom-up. There must be a groundswell of sufficient volume so that it cannot be silenced or ignored. One might be entitled to some optimism here. The snowball is rolling and getting bigger every day. It may well be the first time in the history of covert ops that the citizens have been able to undo the cover-up and may succeed in revealing the truth within the current historical context (as opposed to historian figuring out what really happened decades or generations later). Three years ago I didn't think it was possible; today it looks like there's a good chance. But the way to get there is emphatically not by placing the responsibility in the hands of the state again - because it is the state, through its officials, that has perverted and covered up the truth.

You make a good point, but

You make a good point, but where is the bottoms-up groundswell going to go?
It will go back into the political process and result in a new investigation.
Let's synthesize our points: we need a groundswell that leads to a real investigation of 9/11 and that is so strong the new investigation cannot become a second cover-up.
It can be done. And it is the only way to get anything done.
We need to have urgency and that comes from focus and having a clear goal.

The bottoms-up groundswell

needs to arise from a sound understanding of what happened.

I think moodforaday is right. Congress won't investigate and prosecutors won't prosecute until it is in their political interest, so it has to come from the people.

I disagree

The 9/11 Commission was NOT a Congressional Investigation with a Special Prosecutor, and that is the type of new, real investigation we need.

----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent

http://www.chico911truth.org/

9/11 — GET rEVENge! (in a peaceful manner, of course)

Almost

That looks right. Congressional investigations seem to be, mostly, theater. On the other hand, Special Prosecutors do sometimes come up with real results.

Getting to the Special Prosecutor stage, and having a valid person assigned to the Prosecutor role, looks almost impossible to me, in this case.

But I do say "almost."

Goals

It seems to me that one goal virtually everyone in the 9/11truth movement supports is the initiation of a thorough, independent, legal, forensic and criminal investigation.

Secondary to this is tightly-focused, increased, public awareness and information, something many have been working on, whether privately to other people, or in publication, video production, etc.

Who has the power and the wherewithal to convene a select group of people for further strategic planning and thinking? It would seem we need money (i.e., fund-raising), but we also need strategic thinking and strategic planning.

One tool to be used is a power/salience cube.

Another is to engage in “cascade thinking”. ((Such ““strategic exploration”” processes and software can be found here: http://www.strategicexploration.com/i-wheel/index.htm.) This tool and its associated process allows a detailed examination of second-generation and third-generation consequences of decisions, policies and actions.

Start using concept mapping [For further information, see www.ihmc.us and http://cmap.ihmc.us/ ].

Google up the Institute for Collaboration, Creativity and Culture and download a copy of Dr. Colby Stuart's paper "The 21st Century Biz Model", or "Enterprise Dynamics of People, Business and Society". (Her doctorate is in quantum physics.)

It's gonna take money.... and organization.

The key word

You guys are leaving out the one key word concerning the new investigation. What we need is an INTERNATIONAL investigation made up of people from all walks of life. We can't have another whitewash which is exactly what would happen if we had another investigation done here. It has to be comprised of people from every inhabited continent on the planet. The U.S. system is too corrupt to hold its own investigation. Look what happened with the 9/11 Commission report. It was a boldfaced lie. Any new investigation into 9/11 has to be international. Period.

International would be good,

International would be good, but the problem would be that it would not have the legal authority to require the right people to testify under oath.
It must be realized that we have solid evidence that the official story is wrong, but we do not have solid evidence about who did it or how they did it.
That evidence may come from a deep-throat, but it is more likely that it will come from testimony taken under oath.
It is very unlikely that any prosecutor in the US will take this case to court.
So that leaves a new Congressional investigation.
That is the right strategic goal, and I have not seen one word in this post or elsewhere that refutes this claim.
Why not face it?
That's where we are and that is what we can do now.
If someone has a better practical/strategic proposal, please say what it is.

An international

An international investigation would be good, but impossible. I guess everyone here knows this.

War crimes trials against Nazi German leaders occurred only after defeat. Same with Slobovan Milosevic recently. And this was also true for the sham trial of Saddam Hussein even more recently. The US government is not likely to be defeated any time soon.

The UN Security Council operates under US joint control, as we all know. Decisions are made jointly by the five permanent members of that council. The US will not relinquish its part in the control over it.

Thus, it seems naive to expect or hope for international legal action in this case, with current US leaders or operatives as prime suspects. They knew this prior to committing these crimes -- whoever did it. That is why, I suppose, so much of it was simply out there, done right in the open and plain for any discerning person to see. It makes for better terror effect that way.

Mssr. Joet says, "It seems to me that one goal virtually everyone in the 9/11truth movement supports is the initiation of a thorough, independent, legal, forensic and criminal investigation."

It is satisfying even to read those wonderfully clear words.

Yes, lets keep seeking a real investigation. It also seems smart to keep looking for ways to convince more people about what happened. I also hope that people continue seeking new sources of proof about what happened. More will probably show up, as time goes by.

Those are three goals, and not just one. I don't think we have the luxury of going for one goal only. What if it fails entirely? And it may -- especially when that goal depends on the goodwill, or at least acquiecence, of people currently in power, who stand to be regarded as prime suspects.

you're right--an international investigation is unlikely

but also unnecessary. I think the American PEOPLE, not the government, will have to demand this investigation and demand results and transparency. can we later on hand over certain americans to the international criminal court? i think we should, to send a message that yes, we are responsible members of the world community and not hypocrites. Will some people more naturaly be tried for crimes committed in the US against americans? Yes. Some will actually be americans and some may have to be extradited from a foreign country. Maybe even from Paksitan, we'll see... ;)

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

Basis for international investigation of 9-11

There are strong grounds for an international investigation of 9-11, the illegal US invasion of Afghanistan. Since the US used 9-11 to justify the invasion, theoretically someone can make the case that the World Court , UN or some other international body should investigate the allegation that Osama Bin Laden/Al Quaeda carried out 9-11 and that there was no recourse to bring him to justice except through the invasion. In the course of the investigation it would be very apt to study how 9-11 was carried out to identify the real perpetrators.

Just think about it, it is actually easy to prove OBL or Al Quaeda did not carry out the attacks on their own since WTC7 was demolished by pre-planted explosives which could only have been placed with implicit cooperation by the US authorities. This would prove the US guilty of an illegal invasion of Afghanistan. More importantly, this would put in glaring light that the actual perpetrators are still at large, need to be identified and prosecuted.

An international investigation with support by foreign governments could provide the level of witness protection that will allow whistle blowers to come out and testify safely, something that a citizen's court and perhaps even a Congressional investigation in the US is not capable of.

The only question is which international body is capable of carrying out the investigation fairly and insulated from influence by the very same perpetrators of 9-11. The UN is dominated by the US and it's close allies so I doubt it would be the right forum, but perhaps another international group would do.

.

It is interesting.

This 911 issue brings up an evident need for a world-wide legal system, which at present does not exist.

No matter what international body decided to try doing this, it is hard to imagine the jurisdiction issues involved. Would they sopoena people or what? Who would arrange for transportation and so on? And if someone failed to honor the sopoena, what then?

In this country the cops go after someone doing that. What cops, in this international case?

I am not criticizing the idea. I like the idea. But it does seem that we are far from this sort of international thinking, at present. It might ve decades off, or maybe never. Can you imagine it?

ah yes, global government

Don't let some of the folks on this site hear you say that! :)

In fact we have the international crimnal court. Problem is, the US refuses to recognize its jurisdiction unless it's enemies of the US who are being tried.

I'm afraid I must side with the anti-globalists on this point, though. We have the right and in fact the responsibility as citizens of a sovereign nation to hold our own leaders to account. If we are unable to, does it mean that we want to be invaded and liverated? Isn't that what would happen if the government refused to turn over Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, and Bush?

Perhaps it would be better if the world responded to Americans' failure to hold its government to account through boycotts and sanctions. We often point out that Americans are unlikely to do anything about the situation until they feel pain. Perhaps the rest of the world could stand up to our corrupt regime so that Americans would become angered enough to take more serious (legal) action against their ineffective and corrupt leaders.

It should be born in mind also that Americans were the victims of 9/11, and some of the perpetrators are likely to have been foreign. I am not suggesting, of course, that our treatment of the ACTUAL foreign perpetrators be similar to our treatment of the FICTIONAL foreign perpetrators, since I opposed the lattter I do of course oppose the former. We cannot, however, put our welfare as citizens of the US in the hands of a foreign body that could very well choose to punish America for Bush's crimes by withholding justice from us for the crimes commited against us by our treasonous leaders and their foreign allies.

The existing authorities in the world, both in the US and pan-globally, have failed. They have failed because they are corrupt. We must not depend on them or in any way validate their existence, but instead work from the bottom up, in concert with responsible citizens of all other nations, including any whose leaders may have participated in the 9/11 plot, to achieve, for once, real justice on behalf of real people. It is this process that will give rise to a popular global movement to effect the changes necessary to create the kind of global governance that is truly needed. One that rspects national sovereignty, does not enable economic exploitation, one that is thoroughly decentralized, and one that is not designed to serve the global elite but to serve instead the common interests of the world's common people--of which I am proud to consider myself one.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

.

RT, your posts are getting better over time. And the first ones were pretty good, too. So, no complaints implied. Or at least, no major complaints.

You say, "We must not depend on [The existing authorities] or in any way validate their existence, but instead work from the bottom up..."

Surely this is right.

And "a popular global movement... that is thoroughly decentralized..."

Yep. I see no other way out. Plus, this vision attracts me. Others too I imagine; many others.

It would probably attract us even without the atrocious antics, from government on high, that we face these days.

thanks, student!

I really appreciate the kind words. I also appreciate the fact that while I know we disagree on a few things that you make suçh an effort to find common ground--being patient and tolerant of those who don't share our views is something that not all of us are that good at and it's important that we never lose the ability to communicate effectively no matter how much we may disagree on. In fact it is the fact that there are so many who are willing to talk through the most potentially divisive of issues that gives me so much hope for our success not only in establishing the truth about 9/11 but also about putting 9/11 behind us once we do, and moving forward, together I hope, in an effort to fix everything that was wrong before 9/11. If 9/11 seemed to kill every hope and dream I had about our potential to solve the world's problems, the 9/11 truth movement has revived and invigorated them again. At this point I feel like even if I don't live to see those dreams realized I can still die full of hope for those I would be leaving behind to carry on the struggle. We're all in this together and we do not win unless we ALL win. The only victory that matters is one that will unite all the world's people under a renewed sense (or perhaps a brand new sense) of togetherness, compassion, and love! Don't doubt for a moment that that's what RT wants more than anything.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

.

"If 9/11 seemed to kill every hope and dream I had about our potential to solve the world's problems, the 9/11 truth movement has revived and invigorated them again."

Same here.

As for disagreements, we are all here for the same reason. I sort of like the challenge anyway, of people disagreeing with me. In fact, I even liked having ref here -- remember him? -- before he got banned. He made me try very hard, and think things over very carefully. You do that too, friend. But your purpose matches mine, unlike ref's as far as I can tell. But that's a different topic.

Keep up the good posts.

A second reason for an international investigation

9-11 was an international conspiracy, besides the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, a lot of circumstantial evidence points to the involvement of Israeli agents which of course implicates the Israeli government.

I would dare say the London tubeway bombings were part of the conspiracy as well, and that this involved agents of the UK government. Heck they covered up the investigations just like your 9-11 Commission did.

Maybe this can be investigated and tried as crimes to humanity under the World Court. Now if only the World Court could be trusted.

If this international investigation ever comes to be, the truth movement should extend to other countries in order to keep watch on the investigators.

Educate the Public.

Of course our goal is a new investigation sponsored by those in authority of our government and society. It is just a matter of how to go about attaining that goal. Contacting congressmen has yet to show tangible results. We have to be open to other avenues of achieving this goal. Public support is one way I see to convince our government to either hold a new investigation or get voted out of office.

The bottom line is how to go about achieving the goal of a new government sponsored investigation and criminal case against those guilty.

We are in complete

We are in complete agreement.
My main point is that we need more focus on the goal of a new investigation.
I am in favor of anything that furthers this goal.
It is important to make the goal explicit and have it be generally accepted by the movement for the reasons stated above.
In every movement there is a tendency for people to get lost in details, emotions, or what are merely tactics.
If we can all mostly agree on a basic strategy, everything else will fall into place and we will become an effective and powerful political force.

Finite Element Analysis

FEA will prove that jumbo jets cannot demolish skyscrapers. The evidence is overwhelming. The collapse times are really all we need.

In addition, Alvin R is

In addition, Alvin R is incorrect regarding the evidence for thermite. It is most conclusive. The evidence for space beams is nil.

One should either be a scientist in this process or not.

You either present credible data to the public or not.

You do not present data that will subject 9/11 Truth to derision.... which is what space beams surely do.

==================================================================
"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." (Goethe)

X-EDS Spectra

Assuming they are reproducible and only explainable with thermite analogs then it's better evidence than even (gasp) WTC7. I have a feeling we can go find some pristine dust in NY considering they keep finding remains. It's likely that hundreds if not thousands of samples of the dust have been saved by people.

Sol-gel explosives evidence has also been found.

Different people are convinced by different things. Direction is good, but focusing on all types of evidence keeps the movement usefully diversified.

Evidence from dust collected

Evidence from dust collected by people is completely worhtless in a court of law.
There is no chain of custody. It could easily have been tampered with. This is part of why I say that it is very unlikely that we will find any new material evidence, for even if something does show up, it will not have had a chain of custody.

What do you want to collect it with? Robots?

That dust is still in that city. It can be found, undisturbed. Remains and wreckage will be uncovered for years to come.
We also have landfills full of it. The chain of custody is not a major problem.

I hope you are right.

I hope you are right.

thanks for this post

Alvin R, I may not agree with all your points (I'll get to that) but I want to say that I greatly appreciate this kind of forward thinking constructive approach. Instead of trying to identify a fragment of one of the planes that hit the towers we need to be trying to identify the various ways to move forward. That said...

I mostly agree with your assessment that Congress is key in this. This is a national crisis and like it or not these are our representatives. They have (understandably if not justifiably) been avoiding the issue, and as recent encounters with Edwards and Kerry suggest, there may even be some genuine ignorance involved. This is no time to jump to conclusions about what is and is not possible. Every person who wakes up increases the number of possibilities for action and our probability of success. Now, what is success?

You say that we don't have enough evidence to prosecute. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Is there sufficient suspicion of malfeasance to warrant an investigation? Yes. At the very least suspects can be questioned and subpoenas can be issued. On the basis of what is discovered indictments are quite possible if not probable or even a sure thing. THEN the prosecution begins. What people have correctly pointed out is that law enforcement is unfortunately often affected by politics, which brings us back to our lovably flawed representatives in Congress. See where this is going?

How do we get Congress to do what we want, meaning, to do the right thing in this case? We apply political pressure. The only way to do this is by raising awareness. This is where we start to agree again--we need to be taking the case to our fellow citizens persistently. Many of us have been doing just that but honestly, we need to see more. If we rise to the occasion I have little dount that we will have the desired effect on our fellow citizens. I can say this because I have seen the tide turning. Before reading your post I was walking through the front door eager to share my latest experience.

On my way home today I sat waiting for the bus. A young black woman asked me for a cigarette and asked me what the sign was all about (my 9/11 truth now sign I wear on my bag). I whipped out a flyer--the "11 remarkable facts about 9/11" one with building 7 on the front. Here, I said, check it out. I explained building 7, which she said she'd never heard of. I didn't hit her with too much at once. Since she seemed receptive I pulled out a card from dc911truth with the collapsing towers on the front and eyewitness accounts of explosions on the back. I explained that what we saw wasn't possibly anything but the result of explosives. Having missed my bus in the process, I told her to keep an open mind, because things were going to start coming out soon, and went off to grab a burrito, leaving her with the card and the flyer.

After eating I went back to catch my bus and got on, sitting in the back, again with my sign visible. A middle aged white guy, a bit on the scruffy side, asked "so what's the truth?" Didn't strike me as a democrat. As I whipped out a flyer I said well, it's a long story, and I can't tell you I know everything, but check this out. No plane hit this building and it collapsed. OK, now the young white professional lady sitting next to us starts to listen. "So"she says, what are you saying that the hijackings didn't happen? I could have given her my theory of remote hijacking but you know what? I was surprised she was even talking to us, so I said "I think it's important to separate the issue of the hijackings from the building collapses. They are two separate issues. This seemed to go over alright but I went ahead and for good measure added "we're not saying we have all the answers--we do have questions though, and people are avoiding answering them, and we find that suspicious." My stop was coming up so I got up to get off and said, finally, just keep an open mind, and see what you think.

My tone the entire time was very calm and measured. I made an effort not to sound the least bit agitated--just concerned and serious. Like as if I were talking to an 18 year old about why they should be careful about trying cigarettes--you know, not too preachy, but serious. Like, I know you're skeptical but hear me out and I won't give you a hard time.

You know, those people might well have talked to each other about things once I got off the bus. I didn't tell them what to think or what to talk about, but I could feel them, people I would never have pegged as being interested in hearing me out like the girl I gave the smoke to, dropping their guard a tiny bit. Instead of trying to ram a watermelon into their mouth I sprinkled some sugar on their tongue. It's that simple.

This weekend, I'll set up shop in Harvard Square with much more info and let people come up and read without barking at them. I'll be tehre if they have questions, or want advice on where to find out more. Maybe one of those people will someday run into one of the people on the bus, at a bar or cafe, and discover that they have both been curious. Hmmm--each will say.... it's not just me and that guy in the square/on the bus... and so it goes. Slowly but surely we'll see a change in what gets talked about on the news, we'll see more people with buttons and tshirts, and the politicians will no longer be able to ignore the issues. They will have their strategists come up with a way for them to express their surprise, etc. It may sound crazy to us right now, but when it starts happening it will seem natural. We will wonder what we ever worried about--because by then reality will have come back to us and everything will seem self-evident. It is going to happen, and our job as truthers is to make it happen right. It's just beginning, people. The real truth movement is about to be born.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

find a representative to endorse

Hi RT,

How about if the movement negotiated with an incumbent representative. Focus either on Kucinich or Ron Paul, set a meeting and do an intensive truth session attended by DR Griffin, S Jones and others. The goal is not to come out of the room until the representative is fully convinced that 9-11 was an inside job and a promise is elicited to pursue an honest investigation. In exchange, the movement will provide future votes, simultaneous press releases in the US and abroad, physical protection (just having warm bodies around at all times), alternative media support, street rallies and media campaigns in support of the investigation and that representative. He must be made to prepare for the investigation with the knowledge that the perps may go all the way to the top of the current government. The rep must agree to appoint notable truthers to participate in the investigation. Having won over one representative, the movement can work with him to look for other reps who are honest and are not puppets of the military-industrial complex, the neocons or AIPAC. The investigation may or may not succeed, but even if it fails, it will cause some of the perps to come out to actively oppose the investigation, thus blowing their cover.

One reason for having a high level investigation is to shake out an insider who will sing and finger other perps. The movement, as it is, is not making it easier for an insider to come out. Someone with the authority to subpoena testimony and to offer clemency and witness protection ought to help in this regard. There is still much to know about this conspiracy, every day that justice is not served, the perps get to plan and carry out new crimes and cover up the previous ones.

I think there are enough truthers already to garner an audience with gov't representatives, the problem is no one is coordinating action, saying let's all show up on THIS date and THIS place. Everyone seems to be acting on his or her own time so all efforts are diffused. The movement is not taking advantage of the number of people it already has nor the expertise and influence of the notable people who have already joined it.

I also think there is an international sympathy for your efforts, but no one in the US is requesting for a definite action that these non-US truthers can do to help. Perhaps the movement can request truthers from other countries to organize and do a press release on a particular date, say on 9-11-07. If truthers get visible in 10 countries at the same time, all saying they support the investigation by the representative chosen by the movement, then it gets much harder to deny that the movement exists, has legs and won't go away. The international community has a lot at stake in what happens in the US, 9-11 eventually caused more death and destruction in Afghanistan and Iraq than in the US. In the UK and other countries, 9-11 was used to change laws and take away liberties of citizens under the cover of anti terrorism legislation.

The 9-11 truth movement has limited resources, it must maximize those resources to achieve its goals within a reasonable time. Don't let this movement go the way of Pearl Harbor, the Vietnam War or Oklahoma City where justice was never served to the perps in the White House. The failure to serve justice then has been taken advantage of to conspire for and carry out 9-11.

sounds too linear

why presume that we have a plan that could work, that starts with just one representative and then goes looking for one more? i know that's not exactly what you meant, but I think that we need to think more organically.... i think we need to thoroughly fertilize the grassroots and as things grow, do whatever gardening is needed to make the thing flourish. hit them with many different atctics on many different levels, use sites like this to communicate but more importantly work through invisible (to the perps) social networks (many of us on this site communicate via email to swap impressions without making said views public, you know...) and basically create a new reality that WE understand vest--that will make the traditional corrupt media lose touch with people and will hasten their demise. This sia ll pretty complicated, as it should be, while at the same time being very simple. Through simple tactics we can create a complex situation that we will be much better at dealing with than the perps and their ilk. The process of transoformation is likely to be a long one, especially since we have no plans to manufacture any catastrophic or catalyzing events. That was the old guard's last mistake. The world is now in our hands, and we will not be so reckless. Agreed?

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

developing a solid base + multi prong approach

I agree with grassroots development through educating as many people as possible, and attacking from different directions with different plans as well.

I just wanted to offer the suggestion above as one way to move forward with the investigation and uncovering of the truth. I am a bit impatient but Iraq and Afghanistan are burning as we speak. I do realize I must be patient however given how long the perps have been working their way to power and control of society.

I hope to see soon the fruits of people of the movement who are making their own plans behind the scenes. Good luck to us all.

RT, if your idea of an invisible network communicates through email, then that network is probably transparent to any of the perps interested enough to look :) always watch your six

oh juan

email, smoke signals, telegrams--you know, the works. the perps aren't as smart as they think you know, that's one reason they're in deep shit right now, and why RT ain't all that concerned about having his communications monitored.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

:) i was just making a joke

:) i was just making a joke about the email.

I used to lurk silently on this blog thinking that any of my future visa applications to the US, UK or Australia may be endangered. Later, I decided to heck with it, I might as well contribute to the number of bloggers that they would have to monitor, sort of distract the spooks from zeroing in on the folks who really needed monitoring from their point of view. With so many on this website now, they would have info overload trying to keep up with each one of us.

One little birdie...

... told another little birdie... how to pluck for worms using tin cans and string.

Damn smart birds.

we should also use our numbers

to make sure that the benefit to the perps of having all this info consolidated on one blog is offset by the fact that we will be working overtime to suss out any disinfo they try to sneak by here... imagine you're the perps and/or the powers that be. would you or would you not have lots of people on this very blog site? now ask yourself--who might they be, and what might their agenda be?

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

OMG!

Two points here, first most of these "reasons" are faulty. Second, anything Congress does at this point would be corrupted. In fact, you would get your new Congressional Investigation and it would come out the same (due to corruption of course, not due to lack of evidence for our side)

Let us take these one by one...

1) We have very strong evidence that the official story is false.

* I would say so...agreed.

2) We do NOT have evidence strong enough to lead any prosecutor to take the case to court.

* You may not, but "We" sure enough do. Read any of Griffin's books or the other 15 that list it all out. The "case" would be for treason which "we" have more than enough "strong" "evidence" to prove.

3) We will probably NOT find any new material evidence (WTC steel, dust, material proof of explosives). And even if we did find it, it would not have a reliable chain of custody and so would be mostly worthless.

* A) you have no way to know this, B) it is irrelivent. The fact that evidence was not saved is evidence pointing to treason.

4) We are not supported by any major institutions--mainstream media, academia, the gov't, etc.--though there are a fair number of individuals in some of these institutions who do support us.

* This is not a reason to "focus on the goal of getting Congress" but rather a reason to focus on getting the above named groups.

5) As a movement, we do not have a clear goal.

* The movement has many goals, most of which (in my view) are focused on the goal of getting "major institutions--mainstream media, academia, the gov't, etc."

Some conclusions that can be drawn from these points:

1) Haggling over space beams or thermite is a waste of time for most of us because neither case can be proved due to a lack of strong material evidence for either. It is fine for some people to spend time on this question.

* Haggling is what has produced many of the current views of the movement. It is crucial to the movement. It should however be done from within the movement and not to the outside. That I will give you, but "Haggling" produces ideas. Ideas lead to looking for evidence to support them (or not to!) Evidence changes minds.

2) The most likely way to get more evidence is through testimony taken under oath. This sort of testimony will highlight scores of contradictions and produce numerous new leads. Since no prosecutor in the US is likely to take this case to court any time soon, our best option is to press Congress for a new investigation. To those who say this is a waste of time, I ask what do you propose instead?

* As for the first point, we already have testimony, to Congress, that prooves the "Official" Conspiracy Theory to be false. More would be great, but we already have it. As for it being easier to get Congress to do a new investigation than to get one lawer to bring a case... I don't have data but would think the former a bit more likly. But who knows... Half credit given for this "reason"

3) A movement without a clear goal is a movement that weakens itself. We can and should continue with all that people are doing now, but
it is important that there be a greater sense of direction and urgency. I believe that our main goal should be getting Congress to authorize a new investigation immediately.

* Again, it comes down to what you define as a clear goal. Exposing 9/11 for the fraud that it is seems like a clear goal. There are many more, but it is subjective. There is no 9/11 truth board. It is a without a clear structure, thus a "clear goal" is subjective.

Part Two:

1) When we speak in public (especially short TV slots), our lack of a coherent argument and a clear and urgent goal often makes us look like lonely kooks or confused in our thinking.

* Just because they call us "lonely kooks" does not mean we "look like lonely kooks" to the viewer. (ok, to a viewer with any hope of waking up)
In fact, the more they call us that the better. How are they going to call 75% of the country kooks and have viewers? Not that we are there yet, but you get the idea.

2) As individuals, many of us have similar problems when discussing 9/11 with friends or others.

* I don't mean this like it may sound (condescending), but the more books on the subject you read, the better your dicussions with friends and others will be.

A conclusion that can be drawn from these points:

The best general argument for 9/11 truth is this:

The official story is wrong and therefore we need a new investigation immediately.

* If the official story is wrong (which it clearly is...) a "new investigation" by Congress (some of the same people that brought you 9/11) will be just as "wrong." You need to see that Congress (some members) are also behind this. You MUST NOT have a new investigation conducted by the people that are currently hiding the truth. What do you think they will say? Then the "debunkers" will just have another b/s "investigation" to throw up for support of the "official" b/s story.

This is the best general argument because it is clear, concise, goal-oriented, appeals to reason, and is in perfect accord with the scientific method.

* That may be true, but you are still asking Congress. Please understand that they are some of the very people responsible for our current situation (not all of them, but some) As a body they can hardly be trusted after the last "investigation"

Notice that this argument does not seek to prove what happened, but only to show that the official story must be false and that therefore we need to find a new theory through a new investigation.

*see above

This argument is relatively easy to defend because it is rational and pragmatic. It expresses urgency ("immediately") and in so doing also shows a high level of certitude on the part of the speaker/writer.

It also fits perfectly with the conclusion reached in Part One above.

Overall conclusion:

Due to reasons cited above, the 9/11 Truth movement should do more to focus on the goal of getting Congress to authorize a new investigation into 9/11. This conclusion is supported by the evidence we now have and the evidence we will surely need in the future. It is in good accord with the scientific method, and is likely to appeal to a wide audience as it is clear, rational, pragmatic, and respectful of the normal political process.

* I don't claim to have all the answers, but Congress will not help here. I feel your trust in them is unwise. You are trusting Congress to all of a sudden do something it has been fighting against. They are the wrong body to appeal to in this situation. Keep getting the people, and watch what happens. You will be suprised.

We have evidence that a

We have evidence that a crime was committed, but we do not have any evidence that points to who did it.
You need the second kind of evidence to indict someone.
Absent that evidence, and absent the liklihood of finding new material evidence, what do you do?
You get testimony from the right people under oath.
Since prosecutors either cannot or will not force that testimony (for reasons given above), what do you do?
You only have once course of action left--get Congress to authorize a new investigation and THIS time watch them like a hawk.
There is no other viable option under the US system.

If you think theres hard evidence then ..

Go find a lawyer and press charges ! No ?
Don't worry to much . Next time (if there is one)
the machines will allow you to elect the nice cop
and she will make it all go away ..
"Maybe I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one"

Even though I don't 100%

Even though I don't 100% agree with everything in the post, I get the jist and agree with the general idea. That's why I prefer this type of conversation (see "RonPaul4Pres"). Not only is the official conspiracy theory not provable but there is evidence that eliminates it as possible. It's the defenders of that theory that should be on the defensive. Everyone has theories based on the available evidence but if we argue the evidence instead of a theory, they are left with nothing to attack. That's when they become silent or, even better, wake up.

I think you need to spend less time telling "us" what "we" have

and more time studying what's actually out there.

"We have evidence that a crime was committed, but we do not have any evidence that points to who did it."

This is ignorant. Just because you haven't personally bothered with the evidence does not mean it doesn't exist.

Start with my link below, which I seem to have posted all over the place. Each numbered point is a small capsule worthy of several articles, maybe even a book...

70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.

The point is the evidence we

The point is the evidence we have is not going to be taken to court for the reasons given above.
OK, yes, there are some good indications, but these are just leads right now. They need to be investigated. The only official body with authority and jurisdiction to do that investigation is Congress.

Truth & Reconciliation

I think it's safe to assume that there are people out there still living who know significant pieces of the real 911 story or people who know more than the pieces. What's their incentive to talk other than having a spiritual conversion (which I believe is possible for anyone and something we ought not discount, John Newton, the captain of many slave ships and author of the song "Amazing Grace" proved that) ?
We have to enact a truth & reconciliation law as South Africa did after apartheid ended. We have to make it clear that revenge is not what we're after but the truth. We have to give serious consideration to granting immunity or limited immunity to persons willing to come forward to tell what they know. If we can't bring institutionalized forgiveness , ( meaning in part, no capital punishment in the harshest of instances) into the process than we are no better than the thugs who pulled off this historic crime.
Kucinich is up to this task. Others can be brought around to giving serious consideration to truth & reconciliation.

There's also the matter of still concealed evidence, ( surveillance video, documents, satellite imagery both foreign & domestic, sound & picture recordings, etc) which like the people who know something, persist somewhere. Freedom of information laws can be expanded and more importantly, enforced. Concealed information can find its way to the surface if various forms of state, public and private pressure keep mounting for 911 truth and pathways are cleared to make revelations easier..

There is also the rise of new voices in the movement bringing new legitimacy, like architect, Richard Gage. One of Gage's goals is to unite more and more members of the AIA, American Institute of Architects, behind the push to re-investigate the wtc collapses and reverse that institution's previous support for the official faulty findings.

I agree with Alvin that the movement needs focus. I also believe that we all, in our unique ways, are working for the emergence of truth when it is needed most. Now.

Re: reconciliation

John, good post. I hope people read it not just once but twice, at least.

Me, too.

Truth and reconciliation is the way to go if the goal is more PREVENTION (of the use of false flag terrorism again and again) than punishment. It's the best way to release the most information.

Murder of 3,000 plus attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq

I vehemently disagree

One reason why nobody will step forward among the lower level perpetrators to reveal evidence, they probably fear being eliminated by the top level perps who still retain all their undeserved and unrestrained power.

Reconciliation should follow justice. This is not some misdemeanor or white collar crime. The perps have been using deadly force and deception. I would not trust any reconciliation with them unless the whole truth is revealed. If justice is not pursued, are you willing to let them retain their official positions and ill gotten wealth? Does Silverstein keep his millions from the insurance scam? If you let them keep their POWER they will do this again to YOU. The sad part is they do this to YOU so they can rampage in the international scene which means more of us in the third world being invaded and MURDERED!

Please wake up, you are not against the Republican party in some civil contest like elections, you are going against a group that hijacked your government by killing so many innocent civilians.

In South Africa, reconciliation did not occur until AFTER the apartheid government stepped down. With power transferred to representatives of the majority, and the minority rulers separated from the armed forces and other instruments of state power, then and only then can reconciliation occur.

Well, Juan, thanks for editing out

the part where you called us "dimwits."

That's a good point about SA, but it should be clear to anyone who looks at 9/11 in depth that many of the individuals wielding power in this situation (and many others, including JFK's assassination) are not elected. A hand-off of power is going to be much more complicated. My main point is that in the US, when it comes to false flag terror, the players change, but the game remains the same. I am MUCH more interested in breaking the game into little useless pieces than I am in punishing the guys who happened to be out on the field when 9/11 went down, especially the lower-level ones who just have parts of the story.

It is also true that the only way a truth and reconciliation strategy would work is if low-level perps could be guaranteed safety. Given that we don't even know who we'd be protecting them from, precisely, this is a complicating factor.

As for Larry S, I have no need for any justice beyond stripping him of every bit of weath he has. (Civil suits would take care of a lot of that.) Well, maybe a little need.

sorry my error

Sorry I was really exasperated when I wrote that. I do not have the right to castigate you or anyone. I actually look up to all the bloggers in here who have brought so much of the truth to the surface.

In my experience, premature reconciliation leads to injustice persisting. My country has reconciled so well with the family of our late dictator, the crimes of the past were forgotten. Members of this clan are back in power as if nothing has happened. The money and influence that corrupted our political system before has been recycled to corrupt our current government.

juandelacruz

I'm not against investigations. The crimes are so monstrous and the horrible effects of them so fatal to so many the world over, we have to devise some way of dealing with this in ways that create lasting change. Did Nuremberg solve the problem of state sponsored terrorism? Our government actually hired many ex-nazis to work in defense and aerospace and espionage organizations. If the institutions that perpetrate this misery are exposed and either eliminated or reformed with judicial oversight, that would be a major step forward.
Truth & reconciliation doesn't work with only low level or incomplete clearing. Again I ask, what incentive do we offer high level truth tellers? If harsh retribution is all we offer, then we may never know the full extent of this diabolical interplay of secret organizations and individuals.

Hi John, You are correct

Hi John,

You are correct that there is little that can be offered to high level conspirators to tell the truth. One reason is the expectation that justice will prevail in the end. The high level conspirators know that justice can be subverted as they have done so in the past. Unless all conspirators are exposed and restrained, then any high level whistle blower is in danger of elimination by fellow conspiracists. I am not sure that reconciliation is the right carrot to offer however. Unless all of them are willing to take you up then any hold outs is a threat to the others who come out.

This is a chicken and egg problem.

Hopefully the high level conspirators can be exposed by low level operators. The witness in turn can be protected through secret testimony.

I wonder if there is a difference

between this situation, and the situation you first described -- a dictator using overt force against a country's people.

In the latter case, the people know what is happening, but cannot do anything about it. If the perpetrators escape justice, they can come back and do it again, but even if they face justice, a later dictator could use overt force.

In this case, the American people are being controlled without overt force, under the illusion they live in a democracy and are being protected by their government. Exposure of the false terror would make this harder to do in the future.

I'm all for criminal prosecutions. However, I don't think secret testimony could or should work under our laws. Witness protection won't work either, since the criminals control or are embedded in the government. People will be best protected by full exposure - the more that come out the safer they are. If a reconciliation model works to do that, it's worth considering.

There are honest Americans out there

Don't get ahead, a congressional investigation is not a criminal trial. It may seek and produce evidence for such but they are separate exercises. The primary aim of the congressional investigation should be to discover whether there was an inside job angle on 9-11 and to expose falsehoods in the official government conspiracy as embodied by the 9-11 Commission report. The second aim of the investigation is to identify the actual perpetrators should evidence point to perpetrators other than Al Quaeda as in the myth of the OCT.

The 9-11 truth movement is testimony to the presence of honest Americans who would do what is right in the face of the tyranny. An investigation that promises an honest effort to uncover the truth about 9-11can elicit the support of honest civil servants to protect whistle blowers as best as possible. The whistle blowers themselves might take greater risks if they knew that their testimony was going to be taken by a genuine fact finding body, not wasted upon something like the 9-11 Commission that was intended as a whitewash from the outset.

Witness protection will by dicey at best until the full facts are uncovered and the perpetrators are neutralized. This is the reason why secret testimony may be required, since the safety of the witness cannot yet be guaranteed. Since this is a fact finding exercise rather than a criminal prosecution, I think the secret testimony may be allowed by US laws.

The reconciliation model may not be effective if a significant number of the perps turn out to be foreign nationals who do not even wish to be part of your society. I just don't get this call for reconciliation at this point of the game. Remember, they still hold all the cards, they control the armed forces and the police. They are the ones in a position to offer you reconciliation in exchange for your freedom or your life.

Great points

You convinced me.

Thanks for 70 facts, very disturbing indeed

I wonder how we can get the people more interested in learning the facts as best as we know it today.
I have thought about getting supporting groups like moveon.org or WCW to provide paid advertisement in major news paper to provide short capsules of information about 9/11. For example, one add devoted to the history of the Bush and Bin Laden families, another about Bush family connection with funding Nazi illegal activities during WW2 etc. One subject at a time to gradually inform people about the biggest mass murder in history

The attack itself is very complex, as we have found out. Most likely must have used controlled demolition for the outer wall structure and, as far as I can see, a mininuke with a energy focused upwards to melt/vaporize the core columns and pulverize the concrete. I know of no other device which could have done that job in 10 sec time. The physical evidence for this available as molten pools of steel, 4 to 5 thick layer of dust, chemical analysis of the dust etc.

This information should be disclosed to the public, the MSM maybe corrupted, but income from advertisement could still provide enough incentive.

What we need to do is to break the "wall of silence", so that every TV and radio talk show will discuss this subject until we get the next ad out, revealing some other aspects of this horrible crime.
Jan2

At the very least...

We have them for criminal negligence and obstruction of justice. There is irrefutable evidence for those two charges.


It's Not The Crime That Kills You, But The Cover-Up

That leaves false-flag operations

available for use again. It is crucial to prevent this from happening again by getting official acknowledgment, or at least societal and historical consensus, that this was a false-flag operation to traumatize Americans into supporting war. I consider this more important, and more feasible, than criminal prosecutions of the perpetrators. I like John Parulis' idea of a truth and reconciliation commission.

Why give up so soon? I think

Why give up so soon?
I think we should try like hell to get 9/11 investigated, have testimony taken under oath, etc.
Kucinich is going to do some sort of "limited investigation" dealing with a couple "small parts" of 9/11 starting in September. That's not much, but it is a start. The whole Watergate thing blew open due to one question at the end of John Dean's testimony. Dean mentioned the tapes Nixon had and that was the beginning of the end. Something roughly similar is possible with 9/11.
In a general way, like I John's truth & reconciliation law idea, too, but do not think it fits the specifics of our case in the USA. South Africa was dealing with a split in society and trying to heal that. We are dealing with a small group of criminals.
Also, this small group is not afraid of only the law, but also of having others know what they did, their reputations, etc.
When there is an investigation, many people will be given immunity in exchange for their testimony. That should be enough.

I can see that

My main point was that "criminal negligence" is not what happened, and that it is very important for this false-flag PsyOp to be revealed so that it cannot be done again. I'm not ruling out criminal prosecutions of the perps - I'm just saying that it is not the measure of success for me.

There are many more people complicit in the sense that they know Al Qaeda could not have pulled this off, but they are happy to perpetuate the lie for political purposes, and not investigate who really did it. See no evil, hear no evil. Or see evil only over there, hear evil only over there.

Agreed.

I have yet to be convinced that "criminal negligence" would not actually bolster the Islamofascist meme, once "they" decide who is going to be hung out to dry.

Thank God the Democrats will do a much better job of fighting al Qaeda. [/sarcasm]

I thought Democrats would do better

until John McCain said he would follow Osama to the gates of hell. How can the Democrats beat that?

The way I see it, we have a

The way I see it, we have a few very good years ahead of us during which we should all do our best to make 9/11 a prominent issue and get a new investigation.
Two-three years ago, we had 1-3% of the US population on our side. Now the figure is 20-40% depending on how you count or what you ask.
We should keep educating and growing the grass-roots, but focus is important, too. Otherwise we will be a bubble, like the housing market.
Popularity is good, and we have some now, but people can be fickle and we should not expect to just ride some wave of popularity all the way home.

How can we succeed if we do not define success for ourselves?
What business or political campaign ever succeeded without clear goals, a program for achieving them, and a good PR campaign?

We have very good PR right now--"9/11 Truth" is as good a phrase as anyone could ask for, and the videos and other materials are fantastic.
I hope we can all more or less agree that the goal should be a new Congressional investigation.
Then all we have to do is work out a good program for achieving this goal.

A side note: the main reason I posted this blog was the reaction to Webster Tarpley's appearance on FOX a few days ago. Webster is ten times smarter than me, and he can talk circles around anyone, but most of us felt that his performance lacked punch, pizzazz, focus, whatever.
I believe that Webster would have been a more effective communicator if he had used the basic argument outlined above:
The official story is wrong and therefore we need a new investigation immediately.

Besides the money and power, how did Bush get elected? The GOP figures out its message, they all read from the same page, and they do not break ranks. I do not want or expect us to become like that. But we can learn from them. We can borrow some of the same techniques and shove this story down the national throat till the whole planet screams.

hey alvin

don't sell yourself short. Tarpley does talk circles around people. One problem is that he seems SO sure of what exactly has been going on that his credibility starts to suffer. How can we possibly judge what he is saying when like you say he seems so much smarter than everyone else, and so much more informed? I think it's fascinating that he came from the Larouche group because they are just like that--they have it all figured out and it's of course all very complicated and you just have to read and listen to what they tell you about platonic geometry and malthusian and higgenbothamia and now I'm just making it up but you get the idea.

HONESTY is much more important. Clarity is much more important. Your approach is exactly what we need more of. Regular analysis of where we stand and where we need to be, with an open and active discussion among honest and thoughtful people, even if not all of us consider ourselves as robotically full of information and facts as Tarpley. Most of us can best contribute to the movement by reaching out to our fellow citizens in ways that arpley cannot--with warmth, charisma, and the camraderie that comes from being regular folk like those who we need to wake up.

It's happening, there is no longer any question about that. Now we need to focus on controlling and influencing HOW it happens. Keep up the good work, all of you!!

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

RT-Thanks for all of your

RT-Thanks for all of your comments. I believe we see much the same thing.

"Regular analysis of where we stand and where we need to be, with an open and active discussion among honest and thoughtful people."

I really agree with this.
I personally am interested in speculating about what happened at the Pentagon, but I realize that that discussion does not belong in the forefront right now.
What we need now is exactly what you say. And the needs will change every few months or so.

With this post, and another one just added, I am merely trying to run a comb through the movement and get a bit more consensus on what the basic issues are and how to approach them.

9-11 Truth has come a long way. We have had a good deal of success. I hope that we will continue to grow and become an even more effective movement.

I want to join your call for more focus on an investigation

Hi Alvin,

Im a foreigner who is concerned about your country descending to fascism. In any case, I support your call for a focus by the movement on effecting an investigation. To get this ball rolling I'd like to suggest the following actions:

1. Package the idea so it can be shown to other members of the movement.
2. Float this package to this and other 9-11 truth groups with a sign-up sheet, get a sort of concensus from a broad front of truthers and modify the package based on their inputs (unfortunately we don't have a clear leader to whom we can submit the proposal, but don't let that stop you)
3. With the package getting a significant number of signed up supporters, submit it to the persons who are named in the team of truthers and solicit their cooperation in executing the package.

Sample package contents:
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A PROPOSAL TO THE 9-11 TRUTH MOVEMENT TO INITIATE A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION OF THE EVENTS OF 9-11

The following list of actions is submitted for your inputs and approval in futherance of our goal to have an open and truthful public inquiry into the events of September 11, 2001. Should you approve of the actions as outlined please make a blog response indicating so. Suggestions and corrections are welcome as well.

1. Submit a proposal to representative X (1 or more congressmen) to open a congressional investigation of 9-11.

2. Arrange a meeting between a 9-11 truth team and representative X to convince him of the need for the investigation as well as the best theories on what transpired and who are behind the conspiracy. The representative must be convinced to let the best experts in the truth community to sit in the congressional investigation and provide inputs.

3. The members of the truth team will be composed of David Griffin, Webster Tarpley, William Rodriguez, Steven Jones. The truth team shall have the job to determine if the representatives can be entrusted with spearheading the investigation and looking for alternatives should the ones they first meet seem to be less than genuine in their support of the movement.

4. The 9-11 truth team shall submit a list of issues that the investigation should pursue - evidence of an inside job, media complicity in the coverup, the release of foreign agents and suspects captured by the FBI after 9-11, the coverup by the 9-11 Comission, airliner stock insider trading, WTC insurance scam, etc.

5. When the investigation is in progress, the 9-11 movement members sitting in will provide updates after every session to the rest of the 9-11 community and the public at large.

6. In support of the investigation, the 9-11 truth movement will organize actions for political pressure (rallies, press releases, telephone/text message/IM/email brigades, alternative media exposure,etc). Political action will be resorted to whenever there are roadblocks imposed by other politicians who are hampering the investigation

7. In further support of the investigation, the truth movement shall provide other assistance such as locating expert witness, research, whatever help is needed that the movement can provide.

8. A fund raising campaign will be launched to finance some of this political actions, I suppose the movement can solicit some funds from big name actors who have already expressed support for 9-11 truth. There is also a growing grassroots movement that may be willing to part with some funds to get a real investigation going.

9. In return for an honest effort to investigate 9-11, the movement will offer its endorsement to the representative if he runs for another elective position as well as to other representatives who show active support for the investigation.

10. There is no guarantee that the investigation will succeed in gathering info for eventually prosecuting all the perpetrators of 9-11. But at a minimum, it is expected to expose once and for all that the official government conspiracy blaming Al Quaeda and government incompetence as the culprits is not supported by the evidence.

11. In the course of the investigation, attempts to derrail the effort by any congressmen or executive will be documented and be the basis for a negative publicity campaign by the truth movement should they ever run again for an electoral office.

-------------------------

Disclaimer: Participation in forming, approving or executing the proposal above does not absolve 9-11 truthers from their everyday task of grassroots education, passing out truth DVDs and any other 9-11 truth activity they were previously doing.

1. Package the idea so it can be shown

Hi Juan, thanks for providing us with an outline of actions, I agree with most of it, but have a few questions. The first item talks about an idea, do you mean a theory that has been formulated and debated as being the most likely? If so, where can I find that and read about it? Or, will we we start that debate as part of item 2 in your list?

Also, in item 10 you say we may not get anybody prosecuted? I sure hope we will, IMO the evidence of criminal conduct is massive. True, did we actually see and videotape Bush installing democharges? No we did not, but he is still responsible if by no other way than by having his Brother Marvin in management position of the security company for WTC. He is CIC for US military, that failed by letting the planes through NORAD, that is bad enough for him to be charged of treason. Same for many high level officials in government.

Item 8, fund raising. What do you think of educating people about what we have learned by having paid ads in major papers, does not have to be full page, but just a logo with a short description of one aspect of the attack, followed by a new ad every week or so. I hope it could break the barrier now preventing us to reach millions of people every day
Jan2