Tarpley's Rx for US 9/11 Truth Movement: Diversity and Civility in Discussion, Unity in Action

Tarpley: Since we have the 5th anniversary I’d like to make a few comments of my own about the state of the movement in the US.
We’ve got a round table here going of the leading experts in Central Europe.
You might think to yourself it might not be possible to assemble the leading experts in the United States around the same table because of the unfortunate atmosphere that has broken out in our movement….
I wanted to propose from my point of view the following formula for how we can cooperate, because I think this is obviously what we need to do. Don’t be scandalized by the word cooperation.
We have to recognize that on the one side there is a sphere of theoretical discussion. In this any serious scientific hypothesis, historical, philosophical hypothesis can be discussed, should not be banned, should not be censored.
We don’t want people coming talking about men from Mars or the intervention of the Holy Ghost or the equivalents in other religions, but a theoretical discussion should always go on. At the same time though, we also have now a mass organizing dimension which simply was not there in past years, when people thought that the 9/11 movement amounted to a series of list serves…
In our movement there has to be a sphere of theoretical discussion, which has to be done in a business-like and respectful manner, without slander, without defamation, without ad hominem attacks on every page.
And then in addition to that we’ve got the sphere of mass organizing. Certain tasks simply have to be done, and in order to do them you’ve got to join with other people, who may not have exactly your views on this or that theoretical question.
And if you make the theoretical question a reason not to join in, in united front cooperation, then your motives are perhaps not what you might think they are.
We’ve got to organize websites, we’ve got to organize large conferences, we’ve got to support 9/11 truth candidates, like Bob Bowman, like Carol Brouillet, and Craig Hill in Vermont.
We’ve got to go for the impeachment of Bush-Cheney with the 9/11 crimes as the first item on the agenda. We’ve got to carry out drill monitoring, we’ve got to expose, denounce and shut down those weapons of mass destruction drills that threaten to go live. We’ve also got to think about what to do if the war is widened, if there is an attempt to call off the elections, to impose some kind of dictator-ship. We’ve got to begin bringing the American people to the point that we saw in Spain in March 2005, when that legendary general strike shut down the country and forced the neo-fascist Aznar to back down from his plan for a dictatorship.
So in other words, we have a political movement.
Now we have a movement where one guy says, I see a dot. The next guy says, No dot. I see a bulge, or a pod. No bulge or pod, says the other side. One says, I see planes. The other side says, I see no plane. One guy says, It’s an atomic bomb. No, a hydrogen bomb, says the next. These are of course important questions. But again, the mystery novel is a whodunit, not how-done-it, and the question of the technical means used has to take second place to the overarching political question:
Who did it? Who carried this out? And there of course, the touchstone, the basis of the movement, now I think it’s fair to say, 5 years into the discussion, is MIHOP, made it happen on purpose. That the US government or parts thereof as we wish to define it – and this can be done in many ways – executed, brought out and conducted these actions, in my view through drills, maneuvers, exercises and so forth.
This is the political basis of cooperation, and once we have the political basis, the technical questions can also be handled, but within that context of broad cooperation.
Let me ask Gerhard Wisnewski: You and I were together in Berlin, with 12 or 13 people from the German movement, and it was a very business-like discussion basically among friends, and at the end, this was the foundation of Das Netzwerk, the German 9/11 network, including a new website, and including what warmed my heart in particular, a strong endorsement of the idea of the independent international truth commission, which is obviously one of the main mass-organizing tasks that we have – an Independent International Truth Commission modeled on the Russell-Sartre tribunal, that could provide a forum not only to amplify the work of the research community that we represent, but also to have an airing, an impartial airing, of theoretical issues inside the movement. Maybe you could say something about that meeting in Berlin, a little bit of who was there, and what came out of it.
Gerhard Wisnewski: Yes, thank you Webster. We had about 13 people here from Germany: the leading people of the German 9/11 movement, including Andreas von Bülow, Matthias Broeckers, and other people who are well-known here in Germany. We tried to establish a network, a research network about 9/11, because before we were single people, individuals who wrote their books, articles, their websites, and now we try to come together in this network. I’m very sad to hear these things about the US, and these detailed discussions, this detail war on several issues. I think it’s impossible that two people are 100% of the same opinion on what happened on 9/11. There is so much information and details, and I think we should not start a war on these details because this would be exactly the thing the opposite side wants us to do now, and I totally agree with Webster that this is the second step, the technical aspects and details, and first of all, we have to do a lot of research together: Who did, and who performed this operation on 9/11? And I would be very happy if the American movement would come back also to this method of work.
Tarpley: One other person I’ve talked to in Europe about this, Simon Aronowitz in London, was telling me about a week ago: You have shop talk, you have a research discussion, which is your shop talk. But you’ve also got things like stopping the Third World War, getting the truth out to the largest possible number of people, and somehow you’ve got to make these things coexist.

Webster Tarpley broadcasting with 9/11 Truth authors Gerhard Wisnewski and Andreas von Buelow (Germany) and Thomas Meyer (Switzerland), on his World Crisis Radio Show on RBN Live on Sept. 9, 2006, from Kandern-Holzen, Germany, near the point where France, Germany, and Switzerland come together.

Quoted in 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, 4th ed. pp. 452-453

Sorry you guys have the

Sorry you guys have the wrong group - the 9/11 Movement won't be hijacked by LaRouchie's - take that shit back to Vermont or where ever.

11/11 Never Forget - Fetzer Flips
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Wow, imgstacke, that was really civil and unifying.

The only thing I can say is, I completely agree with what Webster Tarpley says above, and I emphatically disagree with you.

And I'm not a "LaRouchie."

Sorry - I'm not a Big Tent

Sorry - I'm not a Big Tent kinda guy... To each his own.
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I did agree with your "Weekend at Osama's" send-up in Joe's blog and voted it up.

Thanks for the laugh.

I saw it posted a while back

I saw it posted a while back - laughter is the best weapon against fear
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Unite, we have nothing to lose but infights- and infiltraitors

Last night I heard another speaker on the Cooper Union webcast, Dr. William Pepper, a lawyer who was close to Martin Luther King. Pepper said two very interesting things:

1. A movement like 9/11 Truth, as it becomes a threat to the establishment, is going to be massively targeted for infiltration.
2. One aim of the provocateurs is to make it impossible to join up with other progressive forces in a broad front.

Pepper says this is why Martin Luther King was assassinated. MLK was trying to forge a united front of the civil rights movement, peace movement, labor and other progressives. That would of course create a unified majority against the powers that be, and that is what they will try to stop at all costs.

Webster Tarpley has also been calling for this united front. Maybe he is lucky he hasn't been able to do it, so he hasn't been assassinated physically yet, but a campaign of character assassination has now begun in earnest -especially since his July 4th "Philadelphia Platform - fusing 9/11 Truth with Anti-War activism" (http://www.911blogger.com/node/9843)

In that declaration, approved by delegates representing a broad array of groups, but essentially written by Tarpley, we read,

"In her farewell message, Cindy Sheehan called on the peace movement to organize independently of the bankrupt two-party system. She also supported a new inquiry into 9/11. The peace movement needs a new strategy… we have taken Cindy Sheehan’s call seriously. We appeal to leftists, progressives, conservatives, libertarians, independents… The anti-war, impeachment, anti-globalization, labor, civil rights, veterans, anti-tax, civil liberties, honest election, and 9/11 truth movements... We call for a united front of all organizations and persons of good will based on the following:
1. Impeach, remove, and indict Bush-Cheney and their henchmen (Gonzalez, Chertoff, and Rove) as an urgent measure to avoid wider wars, including illegal NSA wiretaps, the lies and war crimes of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the misprision of treason around 9/11…."

Shall we follow the MLK and Tarpley dream of a United Front? Let's overcome the divisions not only within our own ranks, but keep trying to join ranks with other progressives.

Yet Dr. Wm. Pepper is right on both points. We are being infiltrated and targeted. You need look no further than this very blog entry. It contains a prescription we badly need, formulated in excellent terms. Why has it got overwhelmingly negative votes? 2.8 positive out of 15. Do you think rank-and-file 9/11 Truthers are responsible for this? Judging by the comments, no. Is another factor at work… Are they trying to bury the Rx we need? Will this comment here be buried too, like my earlier ones on Kennebunkport? When you read the Philadelphia Platform here on 911blogger, notice how it was defaced in the comments section? This is our elephant in the living room.

It's being said that Tarpley has not followed his own advice above. Of course, his message a year ago was about physical evidence disputes between well-meaning factions, while the recent uproar was more in the nature of gratuitous direct personal attacks. But anyway, if we always practiced what we preach, we'd all be saints and sages, and earth would be heaven. If I'd been so unfairly and maliciously attacked as he was over Kennebunkport, I would probably have reacted pretty badly.

If you think Tarpley made a mistake in assailing his critics, then take it as a warning of what they can do to us. Criticize, provoke, get a reaction. Then criticize that and provoke some more. That's one technique that's used.

The posting below labeled "Tarpley the hypocrite," which cites his reaction, is from truthaction.org, the very outfit he points to as the slander mill, and which does seem to be the key source of the "Kennebunkport Hoax" story. So maybe it's a bit hypocritical of them not to mention that, as if they were some kind of nonpartisans - because they have used exactly the technique above. Provoke a guy, get him to react, then post that reaction, to discredit him further.

I believe it was Tarpley who said, anytime you call somebody Cointelpro, you've lost. I don't know why he would break his own rule. Was he that badly provoked, or did he think it's time to speak out about infiltration, as Paul Watson of Infowars did not long ago about the problems on Wikipedia, or Dr. Wm. Pepper predicted yesterday from experience in the civil rights movement?

How can we detect and defeat infiltration? We need to work on this. Part of it is to not blindly follow criticism of real activists posted by people writing under cover names, for a start. You can help too - don't let valuable posts be buried on 9/11 blogger, log in and use your "up arrow" vote to protect free speech on our own turf.

NY 911 Truth is to be commended for bringing a man of Pepper's calibre to their 9/11 event, very much in the united front spirit. According to Wikipedia: "Dr William Pepper was the attorney for James Earl Ray, the supposed killer of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He believes that Ray was framed by the federal government, and that King was killed by a conspiracy that involved the FBI, the CIA, the military, the Memphis police, and organized crime figures from New Orleans and Memphis. The evidence was unimpeachable. Pepper, a friend of King in the last year of his life, represented James Earl Ray, attempting to get him the trial that he never had. Pepper then represented the King family in a wrongful death civil trial King family vs. Loyd Jowers and other unknown co-conspirators. During a trial that lasted four weeks he produced over seventy witnesses. The jury took less than an hour to find in favour of the King family."

Yes, there are assassins out there. Snipers even. You can even see people who snipe about being called snipers... please don't play this destructive game, if your heart is with 9/11 truth and justice.

When Cindy's signature appeared on the Kennebunkport Warning, did the alarm go off in Cointelpro Central? "Threat of united opposition - Action required." Pressure was brought to bear on Cindy, Tarpley was baited - and here we are - a hoped-for united front broken into a bickering rabble again.

Still flogging this dead horse, are you?

Must say I have to agree with him here:

"I believe it was Tarpley who said, anytime you call somebody Cointelpro, you've lost. "

And he couldn't have demonstrated this better than here:


Well, I think that covers it, squire, don't you?

I don't know why he would break his own rule.

If you think really hard, sunbeam, you'll come up with the right answer.;-)

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

No free speech here, just mob rule by COINTEL burial squads?

When the only stuff worth reading is in the buried posts, and idiotic remarks by snipers and wreckers all have plus 7 - doesn't that indicate what 911 Truth is up against?

Makes me wonder if every word Tarpley said at Cooper Union might be right after all!

Show "Makes you wonder if what Tarpley said about shills might be true" by John Leonard

Let us know when he's apologized to Cindy Sheehan...

Dahlia, and Ann Wright. Then let us know when he's apologized to Arabesque, Cosmos, Micheal, Jon, and yours truely.

Then and only then, will we consider any calls for "unity".

Get snappy--there's a good lad.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Exactly you guys started it with groundless attacks on Webster!

You and Arabesque and the like started the rabid attacks out of the blue on Tarpley at truthaction.org and here.
You and your gang bury all my major posts on this website and act generally like trolls.
Let's see you apologize, and I will ask Tarpley if he can
But no, you are full speed ahead on your warpath.
So it's no wonder if he thinks you might be shills.

They say we are infiltrated. Somebody must be it. Why not you?

Dr. Wm Pepper says we are going to be massively infiltrated.
So who are all these agents among us?
By their fruits ye shall know them.
You guys started this scandal, and you are obviously enjoying the hell out of it.
So why shouldn't you be suspected of being one those infiltraitors among us?

You need to pay attention, luv....

The person who started this scandal was the same person who emailed reprehensor of 9/11Blogger the text version of the Kennebunkport Warning on or around 6:00am EDT, Monday, August 27th.

You know, the one with names typed on it who were not signatories, but were meant to be taken as signatories.

Now who was the person who emailed reprehesnsor, sunshine?

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

That's why they were typed, not written in, Duh!

You type them in to show you got agreement by phone or some other way than signing it, sunshine.
You don't write it in like forging a signature.
What rock have you been under all your life?

You what? Agreement by phone?

At 6:00am, Monday morning after it was supposed to be signed already that weekend?

We were meant to think those were SIGNATURES, luv. And I thought they were typed because they hadn't had a chance to scan them yet. That's what everyone else reasonably assumed.

Oh, and you didn't answer my question, guv--who started all this 6:00am, Monday the 27th of August?
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Your gang started malicious attacks promptly on the 27th a.m.

on 911truthaction.org, arabesque blog, and here on 911 blogger
that's makes you look like an organized hit squad


First suspicions of hoax reported Wednsday morning, August 29th, by Joan Jones on or around 9:43am:


Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Show "If they signed & changed their mind, they need to apologize." by John Leonard

Good question this:

"Why Tarpley, when he wasn't even in Kennebunkport where it happened?"

Guess he shouldn't have given the impression he was in Kennebunkport or signed the document by typing his name on the text document he emailed to reprehensor(8th down of the "signatories"):



Now, about that apology....

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

"1. A movement like 9/11

"1. A movement like 9/11 Truth, as it becomes a threat to the establishment, is going to be massively targeted for infiltration.
2. One aim of the provocateurs is to make it impossible to join up with other progressive forces in a broad front.

Pepper says this is why Martin Luther King was assassinated. MLK was trying to forge a united front of the civil rights movement, peace movement, labor and other progressives. That would of course create a unified majority against the powers that be, and that is what they will try to stop at all costs. "

Of course many of us think this. And many of us think this was exactly the aim of the Kennebunkport Hoax -- to poison any potential alliance between 9/11 Truth and the anti-war movement. If this was really a misunderstanding, there would have been a graceful way to resolve it, by removing the names of those who denied signing it and honoring the signatures of those who did sign it. Instead, we have a shining moment in the history of 9/11 truth in which one of our "elder statesmen" resorts to calling potential allies "wretched individuals" and members of his own movement "merchants of pus." This is the poison.

Please give up with the whole "these are not real activists" shtick. Too many of us actually know these people to fall for that crap. Cosmos and I sat next to each other in the center of the front row for Tarpley's presentation at the Arizona conference and now Tarpley accuses him of being a Chechen commando? I think they make medications for this sort of thing.

OK, but why was Tarpley targeted for character assassination?

I see your point. The problem is, the way I saw this go down, is that Tarpley had nothing to do with the signatures, but got all the blame.
Either Wasfi or Bruce Marshall was mistaken. Tarpley not.
But all these supposed 911 truthers started jumping on Tarpley. Why?
Why was Tarpley targeted, jumped on, called all sorts of names, and provoked to this point?
Is this what you get for trying to merge progressive movements - either a character assassination, or a real one?
As for the Chechen bit, that was obviously meant to be a joke. It's too bad if everyone has lost their sense of humor. Cause you seem to be an alright person, and I would have thought you should have noticed that.

No, it isn't obvious it's supposed to be a joke....

..after you've called someone a shill because thye expect responsible adult behavior out of him. It might be a joke AFTER he apologizes for calling us, shills, agents and poison pens, but not BEFORE.

So I hear there are loads of LaRouche tables set up at the 9/11 anniversary event in NY right now--what's up with that?
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Leonard here is not entirely wrong

nor are the rest of you entirely correct, not to mention IF there is some nefarious disinfo critters at work here I would like to remind ALL of you that you are doing EXACTLY what they want you to do which means you have let them win & take control.

I think everyone just needs to STFU about Tarpley and move on.

You are entitled to your opinion.

How coming here and trolling with non-facts that are easily refuted with links is a sign of them "winning", I don't know. It's obvious to me that's a sign they are LOSING, and have lost, hence the desparate gambit.

But, whatever.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

actually every time you open your face

and argue about it they win, THAT is the goal....DOH!

If the information was found to be untrue after it was more thoroughly vetted then the original blog should have been updated with the facts and that's that, the end.
Then move on to valid issues.

No, everytime you post a link and shut them up...

...observe the silence--they do not win.

On the contrary, if you don't post a fact when you have it--they WILL link back to that as "proof" you couldn't respond.

I have taken to heart someone elses headsup(not yours) to keep responses brief and factual. That heads up is based on information and stratedgy--not some blanket "never respond to anything ever" bollocks.

Holding people accountable for trying to fuck up our relationship with the anti-war movement IS a valid issue. Thank you very much.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

you obviously have your undies wadded up because you were named

by Tarpley which is understandable, however I have never said to "never respond to anything ever" I said to correct the original blog with factual info as soon as possible and apologize for the confusion.
Continuously going on & on about something like this is counterproductive and is exactly what disinfo freaks are paid to accomplish.
In-fighting within a movement based on faulty information.

When you find out in fact that it is disinfo just say we caught you again your tactics are not going to work here and move on.

Who's going on and on now?

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.



Show "Tarring Tarpley for "attacking" PEACE ACTIVISTS!" by Epimanes

The Truthaction Merchants of Pus

Webster Tarpley: "We discovered going through this that if you take all the slanderous filth, counter-organizing, disinformation and so forth, about two-thirds of it comes from about half a dozen people… So here we have Cosmos who shows you he looks like he's trying to imitate Che Guavara or a member of the Sons of David baseball team. He's hiding behind a huge beard, looks like the Italian aviators in A Night at the Opera… These are the venom-mongers, the merchants of pus… we have somebody else called Colonel Jenny Sparks in quotation marks. She shows herself as a cartoon figure prancing in an abbreviated costume before the Union Jack… Michael Wolsey, Visibility 9/11. He appears of course in shades, he's got some cool shades on… [Arabesque] seems to have all the disinformation you could want. He's pushing it and peddling it on this sleazy, smelly website."

Webster Tarpley: Arabesque, Cosmos, Jenny Sparks, Jon Gold, Michael Wolsey, and Truthaction are “disinfo”

I'm not going to comment on this anymore until after the anniversary...

One does not join with

One does not join with LaRouchies - LaRouchies take over other movements to suit their own purposes.

No thanks.
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Congratulations! You are now officially a Merchant of Pus!

Check in at TruthAction.org for further instructions and to schedule your initiation. Ceromonial robes are one-size-fits-all and don't forget the Al Qaida debriefing at midnight by the fisherman's wharf.

The weekly human sacrifice begins promptly at dusk, every other Tueday--remember to wear blood resistant clothing and please avoid white.

Thank you for joining the Merchant's of Pus. Only with your help can we crush freedom and democracy everywhere, in the most improbable, over-the-top scenarios imaginable! :-)

Show "You seem to know a lot about such things" by Epimanes


That video is classic case of "Religious Ritual Abuse" assuming they are telling one word of truth which unlikely. Most likely just a scam to milk money.

I do not dismiss it out of hand

I never believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, Jesus, or any other part of the JCI religions. I was raised Unitarian, but ever since the hostile takeover by the Universalists, UU has been infested with the likes of VA, so I avoid it like the plague. I look at what that woman is describing and ask myself could people be that sick? That depraved?


Roger that!

Remember the Maine!

"could people be that sick? That depraved?"

We are talking about religion here, OF COURSE they could be that sick and depraved.

"Good people do good things, and bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do bad things, it takes religion." --Steven Weinberg ...

Ask Dr. Weinberg who tipped him off about 9/11.

And ask him how the math came out.
Remember the Maine!

Too right

Tarpley et al need to look to learning to behave themselves in public--and maybe an apology or five--then I MIGHT take his calls for civility and unity under consideration.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Diversity and Civility in

Diversity and Civility in Discussion, Unity in Action. Very sage advise regarding emotionally charged issues. Obviously, when one wakes up to the truth of 911, the unthinkable human toll, the erosion of American values, and the disrespect for our Constitution and history, one becomes very angry at the people involved, the people who are in denial, the people who are covering up, and ultimately ourselves for allowing an event of this magnitude to take place on our watch as American citizens.

However, I understand the message, the time has come to take charge of the direction we are heading thru controlled reasoning, critical debate, and methodically presenting the glaring issues of physics and evidence. 911 Truth is an amazing
movement to be involved in, so many individuals have volunteered their expertise, time, money, spirit, and have devoted their lives to exposing the evil that if left unchecked will ruin our nation, our history, and our future.

Trying my best to wake people up who are pretending to be asleep.

If Civility Diversity & Unity scores only 2.8, shills rule OK.

Either that or 911 Truthers are pretty dumb. And i know that isn't true.
I guess there just can't be that many people following this, besides the shills, so I will not waste any more time here.
Earlier today the tone was evenly divided. Now it's all poison pen from the trolls. They just take over.

Tells me I'm doing something right.
Thanks for the compliment, Shillville folks.

And real thanks very sincerely to you Joann.
People like you are the salt of the earth, and of 9/11 Truth.

Tarpley the hypocrite.

Compare Tarpley's words above to his comments on his broadcast tonight:

"Who opposes the Kennebunkport warning? We discovered going through this that if you take all the slanderous filth, counter-organizing, disinformation and so forth, about two-thirds of it comes from about half a dozen people as far as I can see. And let's tell you who they are. First of all, you have to look at the site called truthaction.org. As far as I can see about two-thirds of the site appears to be devoted to slanders and vilification of the Kennebunkport Warning. This shows what one can only call the typical style of the counter-gang. In other words it takes elements from lots of people's work including my own. They talk about truth squads, they have a candidate tracker, they talk about a general strike, they take things from Ron Paul, they take things from We Are Change, but then they mix in a huge dose of anonymous slander, vilification, denigration, calumny, libel, and defamation. The leading poison pen seems to be an individual called Cosmos. Now this I think is extremely objectionable. Here is somebody who will not tell you his real name but he demands the right to be a poison pen. Anonymous slanders are his stock and trade. He wants to slander you and vilify you from the shadows, spread disinformation, distortions. These are the venom-mongers, the merchants of pus who like to operate from behind the scenes. These are the wreckers and saboteurs, and of course the question is posed: Is this COINTELPRO? Is this the conform of the FBI counter-gang?"

And on and on and on.

Transcript and audio at http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5941#5941


I'd say Tarpley is looking

I'd say Tarpley is looking more like he's part of the "counter-gang" with his ties to Fetzer et al, and the fact that Tarpley has a history with LaDouche says a lot. But attacking YT like this is a joke, he doesn’t even know his own movement. Very disappointed.

"He doesn't even know his own movement"

I'm thinking maybe he's in a different movement...

I've always liked Tarpley, but that won't stop me from reading the writing on the wall and acting accordingly. Onto the ash-heap of 9/11 Truth with him and his now-clear LaRouchie strategy for world domination. To hear him apply his usual analysis ("counter-gangs" and so forth) to people I know personally is surreal. I'm going to have to go back over EVERYTHING I have ever accepted as valid information from him and re-view it through this lens.

I guess I must have missed something the past few days

because on the surface I see nothing at all wrong with what Tarpley is stating here.
So what did I miss?

Oh dude...

You've been so busy tormenting the delusional psychotics that you've missed a whole made-for-tv drama (and I say the tormenting part affectionately). Bear in mind that Tarpley was, until this week, one of my very favorite 9/11 Truth writers and speakers, but it is becoming clear that there is a weird LaRouche agenda behind him and that the consensus is that the Kennebunkport Warning debacle was terribly mishandled. There's a long thread at truthaction.org


I am growing weary of basically not trusting ANYBODY anymore.
I'm not going to pass any judgement on Tarpley until I see something a lot more convincing than what I just read at truthaction.
You realise with constant in fighting like this and finger pointing at virtually everyone that don't fart downwind is going to completely kill 9/11 truth.


Now I see what everyone has their undies wadded up about, I read another thread on Truthaction.
Well it appears to me that Tarpley got bent outta shape about some things said about the Kennebunkport Warning, from several people that may have said somethings they didn't mean or made some accusations etc, then Tarpley chimes in saying some shit that he probably doesn't mean because he pissed about what ever.

Looks like just a big Ol clusterphuck of accusation all going nowhere.
I must say I am surprised that he said such a thing though, maybe his nut has cracked? I don't think any of us really know what shit he may be going through that could have caused such a uncharacteristic outburst.

I see nothing good coming from this.

Show "I've learned a lot from this" by Epimanes

Webster Tarpley Says:

Webster Tarpley says:

“Reality is that the signers signed – the irrefutable, photographic, courtroom quality documentary proof is posted on the internet. In the light of this overwhelming evidence, it is understandable that most of the signers are reluctant to issue a flat denial that they ever signed. Rather, their denials are oblique and ambiguous doubletalk.

“The only way you can get out of this is to prove that you are mentally defective, and nobody has tried that, so far.”

“The role of foundations in funding the peace movement and some of its leading activists is an immense factor of impotence and corruption.

“And you cannot be an antiwar leader and be an agnostic about this, claiming you simply do not know or that you do not understand the concept of false flag. If you choose that cop-out, what kind of a peace leader are you?

"Some of the signers, under the obvious threats of totalitarian forces, are lying in appalling fashion about what they signed and if they signed. You can see for yourself from the facsimile who signed. We need to move beyond these wretched individuals.[sic]"

"The leading poison pen seems to be an individual called Cosmos. Now this I think is extremely objectionable. Here is somebody who will not tell you his real name but he demands the right to be a poison pen. Anonymous slanders are his stock and trade. He wants to slander you and vilify you from the shadows, spread disinformation, distortions. These are the venom-mongers, the merchants of pus who like to operate from behind the scenes. These are the wreckers and saboteurs, and of course the question is posed: Is this COINTELPRO?"

Craig Hill Says:

"The hoax lies in the lies of the signers"

"The stupefying behavior of so-called peace activists who seem bent on making sure disaster strikes again"

"Dahlia Wasafi is the original instigator of the campaign to destroy the messenger and the message of the Kennebunkport Warning"

"Dahlia is worse even than a liar, she is either part of the war effort she claims she denounces or an idiot out of her depth."

"Unlike Dahlia and Cindy, Bruce doesn't play gotcha or switcheroo with those he thought were natural allies."

"They are the ones of dubious integrity."

"The hoax here consists of a rally, essentially, by some of the signers to protect Dahlia's family by amazingly, clumsily, arrogantly and stupidly destroying the credibility of a patriot who is simply trying to do what they have not the guts or brains to do on their own."

"The bitterly dubious integrity of Cindy Sheehan or her crapulous judgment"


So Tarpley's not perfect . . .

And who is? He's got a few issues but I think at the end of the day, we all know in our heart of hearts that he's a genuine 9/11 truther. And, in my opinion, the same can be said about Fetzer. Face it, these guys are very argumentative and hasty with their comments. It comes with the territory: the HEAVY and AWFUL realization that 9/11 was an inside job.

That being said, I'm surprised more of us aren't on anti-depressants and undergoing psychotherapy. My poison is Prozac, BTW and I quite drinking about a month ago . . . See, I'm a truther about normal everyday things too!

Well, we already knew that.

This is beyond imperfect and suggests an agenda that very few truthers are going to be comfortable with. (Check out the research on LaRouche at truthaction.org)

A combination of Wellbutrin and Zoloft do the trick for me.

Tarpley behaves like Disinfo

If I reminded Tarpley about a couple of his dubious claims in the past, I might get a slot in the "Cointelpro" hall of fame.

1) Tarpley's Synthetic Terror actually posited the "directed energy beam" theory (I believe in chapter 9), and he actually said that it was the most likely scenario (bollocks!!!).

2) Tarpley claimed that Able Danger was a control operation that was in charge of the hijackers. The name "Able" was paired off against other "Able" exercises, so that we are to take it on Tarpley's word, that this program literally was supplying the terror "actors" to participate in war games on 9/11. There is no evidence to back this up at all. The Able Danger "data mining" program was described by Shaffer as gathering data from people monitoring the attendees of Mosques all over the world, and looking for people who travelled from Mosque to Mosque, on the assumption that they were the most likely terrorist suspects. The program was a computer/software analysis operation, not a field operation. There is no claim, and no evidence (except for Tarpley) that Able Danger had any contact with any hijacker whatsoever.

Wasn't it Tarpley who posited a "shadow government"....

...behind the 9/11attacks? Not to say there aren't "interests who benefited", but if that theory STARTED with Tarpley, it might be part of an elaborate scheme to take focus away from Cheney and the Neo-cons , or as someone said, "away from the terrorists, from the guilty". ;-P

Set us off on a wild goose chase instead of making firm alliances and HAMMERING for impeachemnt. I'll echo casseia= EVERYTHING Tarpley has promoted/said must be reviewed and re-sourced--time to sift the wheat from the chaff.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

There may be good reasons

Don't know why this triple posted -- sorry!



There may be good reasons

There may be good reasons for criticism in other areas, but Tarpley is hardly the first one to talk about a shadow or secret government. Besides, he refers to the "Cheney faction" repeatedly and has spent the past year hammering home the need to impeach B&C before they carry out anything further. It's on every one of his radio broadcasts. I've never had the impression that he encourages letting the administration off the hook -- far from it. (I find the repetition of the amorphous phrase "New World Order" by other authors and radio personalities to name the real conspirators more likely to reduce the role of the principals within the administration.)

As far back as his administration, Woodrow Wilson talked about it in terms of the pressures brought to bear on him that were far more powerful than his office. Col. Fletcher Prouty referred to it as "the secret team" when discussing the Kennedy assassination and its context. You can find numerous quotes over the past century which reference the same idea from different viewpoints and ideologies.

Watch the entire Bill Moyers PBS program from 1987 entitled "The Secret Government." He makes a convincing case that not only is there a secret government behind and beyond and including elected officials and the three branches, but that they have their own private Air Force plus ground and naval capabilities. There is so much in that program that applies to our current situation at home and in the Middle East, as limited a hangout as it is (especially considering how GHWB is scrubbed from the picture during the Reagan Administration and his denial of a conspiracy in the JFK assassination). It 's full-length version is constantly removed from Google Video, and in a recent talk by Moyers to journalism students lauding his past hard-hitting pieces which uncovered dirt, deception, and fraud, he strangely chose to leave it out. I found this odd, as it was without question the most courageous thing he's done. It could never be made in these times, and I'm not surprised that he or PBS or his backers don't want anyone taking a gander at it today -- especially with respect to the history of our involvement with Iran.

Cheers, LEH

I wasn't sure.

Been reading a bit on Tarpley's history.

And I didn't mean to imply Tarpley was saying "let the administration off the hook". Only that he MIGHT have encouraged a meme that would have the desired effect of disengaging people from holding Cheney et al responsible while they run off chasing shadows. It's just a thought.

Every other reasonable reference to "shadow like governments" have been in the logical realm of "oligarchial corporate military banking interests"--some of which you name. And, to be fair Tarpley, in his book, has kept to that discription.

However, with the company he's keeping these days, their idea of a shadow government is more like something out of science fiction. It's not the idea or even fact of a shadow government I'm questioning, so much as the possible reasons Tarpley had endorsed it in Synthetic Terror.

Bill Moyers--yeh, he did good work.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

I Read Tarpley as saying Cheney in Command

The way I read Tarpley is that Bush was supposed to be a casualty and Cheney was planning on being CinC by 9/12/01. There is some corroborating circumstantial evidence to support that speculation. Bear in mind that Cheney is the guy with all the longtime neocon associates such as Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, etc. 199I WF213589 was probably to call the FBI off of the CIA drug running that Mohamed Atta and friends were involved in. Bush probably knew something (like a new Pearl Harbor) was coming, but he was out of the loop. The perpetrators leveraged the "clandestine services" operation for patsies and to hold Dubya by the short hairs.

Hankey seems spot on with Poppy Bush in Dallas:
His effort at nailing Dubya is not quite as persuasive, but he sure has convinced me that JFK Jr. was murdered and by much the same forces that were behind 9/11:

If he's right then the perpetrators have more than just running a few dozen tons of white powder on Dubya. He's their "pet goat" if you will.

Remember the Maine!

Bill Moyers is integrally involved in the CFR....

and the Shadow Government..... ?
He is noted below and at other web resources.

.........The issue involves much more than a difference of philosophy, or political viewpoint. Growing up in the midst of the "Cold War," our generation were taught that those who attempted to abolish our national sovereignty and overthrow our Constitutional government were committing acts of treason. Please judge for yourself if the group discussed is guilty of such.

If one group is effectively in control of national governments and multinational corporations; promotes world government through control of media, foundation grants, and education; and controls and guides the issues of the day; then they control most options available. The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and the financial powers behind it, have done all these things, and promote the "New World Order", as they have for over seventy years.

The CFR is the promotional arm of the Ruling Elite in the United States of America. Most influential politicians, academics and media personalities are members, and it uses its influence to infiltrate the New World Order into American life. Its' "experts" write scholarly pieces to be used in decision making, the academics expound on the wisdom of a united world, and the media members disseminate the message......

.......Past and present Directors of the CFR include George Bush, Thomas Foley, Averell Harriman, David Rockefeller, Donna Shalala, Zbigniew Brzezinski, John McCloy, Douglas Dillon, Adlai Stevenson, Bill Moyers, Cyrus Vance, Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, Alan Greenspan, William Rogers, Lane Kirkland, and many other well-known names........


on edit; Quite a rogue's gallery, wouldn't you say?

Membership in CFR is not automatically incriminating.

Membership in CFR is not automatically incriminating. Think of the CFR as a recruiting tool. Yes, I believe that the CFR leadership was fully involved in perpetrating the attacks. (I'll name names shortly.) Nonetheless, there are many people whom I respect who are CFR members. The CFR has a facade of legitimacy which upstanding people accept as representative. That attracts good people to the organization, which, in turn, reinforces the appearance of legitimacy. For every 9 good people there is one who appears to be good but, to borrow from the Christian tradition, are wolves in sheep's clothing. These are people who maintain the appearance of honor while committing treachery. For every 9 sleaze-bags in that 10% there is one who is incorrigibly evil. Among that 1% of the whole is 1/10th who are truly depraved. That's your CFR leadership. Where's Heinz?

Remember the Maine!

Looks as though Tarpley may be right.

On one of the more significant 9/11 forums I was trying very hard to discuss the issue of Tarpley's comments without taking sides. I started noticing and pointing out certain patterns which appear to support Tarpley's accusations. I remained polite and objective throughout the discussion. When I asked if Michael Wolsey was related to James Wolsey, I was immediately banned from the forum. I am not claiming that Michael Wolsey is related to James Wolsey, but it was very strange to be banned for asking the question. Even more curious is the fact that I started noticing some peculiarities in the content of http://911research.wtc7.net/ Until recently, I thought that was the absolutely most reliable 9/11 site around. I suggest Jim Hoffman should take a close look at who else is providing content to that site.

Remember the Maine!

Perhaps you could share with us...

The link to this "significant 9/11 forum" where you were banned . You forgot to include that in your post.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

You don't have access to the forum.

So what difference would it make? Ask Victronix or Arabesque.

Remember the Maine!

So, what are the peculiarities...

...of 911research.wtc7.net? I happen to keep this site in high regard as well. What have I missed?

Wtc7.net and the Kport Warning

Don't pay attention to him. Maybe he's just upset with the fact that my research on the Kport warning is now posted at wtc7.net. In fact, my work is referenced a few times on that site.

"The Kennebunkport Warning: Hoax?
This article exposes an apparent hoax circulated weeks before the sixth anniversary of the attack, perhaps with the intent of driving a wedge between peace activists and 9/11 truth activists."


There's bound to be a few people (like his book publisher John Leonard) who will apologize for the fact that Tarpley and his cohorts are viciously attacking anti-war activists (oh, and myself and others for pointing it out). Hell, they call for unity at the same time they send out hate mail to people who cover this issue.

This "Epimanes" character asked me to provide a "motive" for why Tarpley did what he did. Perhaps that's a questions best left for Tarpley to answer. In fact, I would like a damn good explanation for why he and his LaRouche associates are attacking anti-war activists.