first stream listed here:
http://www.wabe.org/community/streams/

PLEASE READ.

In response to his attack on David Ray Griffin in CHRISTIANITY TODAY, I wrote Earl Tilford, a professor of history at Grove City College. He works there at THE CENTER FOR VISION AND VALUES.

http://gcc.savvior.com/Earl%20H.%20Tilford,%20Ph.D..php

This was his response:

Hey TS:

Chew on this!

E T

He forwarded a document for download that I'll post next. It is scary. It really does point to the idea that WWIII is coming.

Proportionality in wars with Terrorists (FROM EARL TILFORD)

The scale of violence in warfare inevitably rises to meet the level of objectives. During World War II Germany’s strategic objectives included dominating Eurasia from the Baltic to the Mediterranean and from the English Channel to the Urals along with racial purification to achieve a “Jew-free Europe.” Japan’s objectives in Asia were just as encompassing. The major combatant nations mobilized totally in a struggle between entire societies in which civilian deaths exceeded combatant deaths by at least four-to-one. Nazi Germany and Japan murdered civilians as a matter of policy, with the German work and death camp system accounting for over 12,000,000 deaths, six million of which resulted from ethnic cleansing of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other “untermenchen”. Millions of others died at the hands of German and Japanese occupation forces.

By comparison, civilian casualties were (for the most part) coincidental to Allied strategies, the Red ArmyÂ’s rampages through Poland, Austria and eastern Germany notwithstanding. Allied strategic bombing, including the fire-bombings of Hamburg, Dresden, and a handful of Japanese cities and the atomic strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, accounted for approximately 1.5 million of the three million German, Japanese and Italian civilians who perished. That is one-fourth the numbers of innocents intentionally murdered by the Nazi work/death camp system alone.

The tragic deaths of fifty-seven innocents at Kfar Qana in southern Lebanon raised the issue of “proportionality” with Israel charged from many quarters with the disproportionate use of force. Indeed, attention focused on the incident at Qana could affect the strategic outcome if a ceasefire takes hold before the Israeli Defense Forces decisively defeat—preferably annihilate—Hezbollah.

Overwhelming force to achieve a total war aim is the stuff of total war. In the American Civil War, Abraham Lincoln understood that if the Southern rebellion was not crushed the union of states would be undone with the bifurcation of the Republic. Accordingly, during the war’s closing months General Grant hurled his armies at the Army of Northern Virginia incurring--but also inflicting--horrendous casualties until the rebels were incapable of further resistance. Meanwhile, General Sherman’s “March to the Sea” eviscerated the South economically striking at its political center of gravity in the strongly secessionist states of Georgia and South Carolina. The totality of objective was the preservation of the United States and it garnered a butcher’s bill tallying half of all Americans killed in wars from colonial times to the present.

Hezbollah, along with the Palestinian groups Hamas, al Aqsa MartyrÂ’s Brigade and Islamic Jihad, are devoted to the annihilation of Israel, a goal shared by Syria and Iran. Hezbollah, a Shiite terrorist group controlled by Iran, also seeks the destruction of the United States, according its goals with those of its sponsors in Teheran. Al Qaeda, which declared war on the United States in 1996, has as its ultimate objective the establishment of a global Islamic caliphate. This means that despite the antipathy between Sunni al Qaeda and Shiite Iran and its surrogate Hezbollah, these groups and nations share similar total war objectives. Couple that with access to weapons of mass destruction, especially the nukes Iran is intent on acquiring, and the future looks very ominous.

Any ceasefire in this war, including one in the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah and Hamas, will be temporary. Such a respite is viable only if it works to the military and strategic advantage of Israel and the United States. Growing sympathy for the sufferings of the Lebanese people must be tempered with the understanding that Lebanon accommodated Hezbollah socially and politically while Beirut did nothing to prevent Hezbollah from attacking Israel from its border strongholds. Dance with the devil; you pay the devil his due.

Additionally, Israel and the United States must not be dissuaded by the argument that the Arab world will “turn on us” if Israeli operations in Lebanon continue. Walid Phares of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies estimates that of the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims some 300,000,000 support the aims of al Qaeda while hundreds of millions of other Muslims, if they do not desire the obliteration of the Judeo-Christian West, certainly want the destruction of Israel. The rest of the world’s Muslim population must decide if they are with us or the Islamic Jihadists.

There can be no accommodations with fanatics devoted to our demise. Some Jihadists, though not the most fanatical, can be deterred if they understand that their attacks will be met with immediate, overwhelming and deadly force. The price they pay for attacking innocents must be vastly disproportionate to any perceived gains. War, best described by Sherman as “all hell,” is not a game. Death is inherently total…and decisive.

In this war Israel, the United States and other Western liberal democracies cannot afford passivity in response to terrorism. Prevention and pre-emption make for two edges of a single strategic sword. We must be hunters because if we are not the hunters we surely will be the hunted.

That Washington Post article pisses me off. It's a blatant attempt at the 9/11 Commissioners trying to cover their asses, and at the same time reinforce the incompetence theory.

That's OK, Jon, we just need to get these people infighting because someone is gonna spill some beans and make the Commissioners look like a fraud, too. Who were those staffers that said Cheney lied? I always got the impression that was kind of a warning shot to show Cheney that somebody has the goods on him.

"Around 9:35 on the morning of 9/11, Cheney was lifted off his feet by the Secret Service and hustled into the White House bunker. Cheney testified to the 9/11 Commission that he spoke with President Bush before giving an order to shoot down a hijacked civilian airliner that appeared headed toward Washington. (The plane was United Flight 93, which crashed in a Pennsylvania field after a brave revolt by the passengers.) But a source close to the commission, who declined to be identified revealing sensitive information, says that none of the staffers who worked on this aspect of the investigation believed Cheney's version of events."

That long diatribe from Earl Tilford suggests that the Middle East war is going to escalate into something huge and the Bush/Cheney Administration has got its foot on the pedal.

The rhetoric linking all of this to 9/11 is at fever pitch.

It's probably true. These evil warmongers know people are catching on and they are going to storm through with their plans.

Even if you follow the official version, don't you think 23 minutes is an incredibly long amount of time to get the Vice President of the United States into the emergency bunker during an obvious emergency?

The 9/11 Report said he got there at 9:58.

9:35 - 9:58 = 23 minutes.

Of course, it's total bullshit because Cheney got there at 9:10 according to the best accounts.

That's pretty quick... certainly not a sign of incompetence... why then the need to lie about it?

Oh, because Cheney was probably in charge of the Wargames that morning.

Too bad General Myers refused to answer Cynthia McKinney when she asked who was in charge of the wargames that morning.

dreadwolf,

Thank you for the input. I hope others read it. It truly is terrifying.

Notice that Dr. Tilford DID NOT address my criticism of his attack on David Ray Griffin or my questioning of the OV of the 9/11 story.

Tilford simply said "Chew on this!" and emailed me that document all about prevention and pre-emptive military actions and how the war is going to escalate.

New Vanity Fair is up, homies.
http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

DU has an interesting thread breaking it all down, and I see that Paul Thomspon has weighed in on it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&fo...

"On September 11th Ms. Couric will be anchoring her evening news show direct from Ground Zero in Manhattan."

Uh oh, time for CBS to bring out the green screens.

So let's see... we have a group of people who wanted to go to war with Afghanistan to allow for the Caspian Sea Pipeline, and to make the opium trade flourish. We have a group of people who wanted to go to war with Iraq because Saddam Hussein wasn't friendly to American policies anymore, and because Iraq sits on the 2nd largest deposits of oil in the world. We have a group of people who wanted to protect Israel. We have a group of people who wanted to put permanent bases in the Middle East just in case anything were to happen with China. We have a group of people who wouldn't be able to do ANY of this without a paralyizing and catalytic event taking place.

Hmmmm...

Who is Katie? You say the name like it means something!

I asked a local Jew if she saw Mel's movie and what emotion she felt upon leaving the theater. She hung her head down and softly replied, "Very ashamed."

http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20379-2004Aug20.html

What do these people care about the "have-nots" anyway?

Too bad the Internet wasn't around during the JFK assassination. Things would have turned out much differently.

"I asked a local Jew if she saw Mel's movie and what emotion she felt upon leaving the theater. She hung her head down and softly replied, "Very ashamed."

Would Jesus have approved of the Crusades?

Gold! Gold! Gold! Gold!
Bright and yellow, hard and cold
Molten, graven, hammered and rolled,
Heavy to get and light to hold,
Hoarded, bartered, bought and sold,
Stolen, borrowed, squandered, doled,
Spurned by young, but hung by old
To the verge of a church yard mold;
Price of many a crime untold.
Gold! Gold! Gold! Gold!
Good or bad a thousand fold!
How widely it agencies vary,
To save - to ruin - to curse - to bless -
As even its minted coins express :
Now stamped with the image of Queen Bess,
And now of a bloody Mary.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/gold.html

http://www.tiredofbeingalive.com/read/pyramid_human_sacrifice.htm

Just wanted to say......THANK YOU C-SPAN!!!!!!!You do your country proud.

Who is Katie? You say the name like it means something!

I asked a local Jew if she saw Mel's movie and what emotion she felt upon leaving the theater. She hung her head down and softly replied, "Very ashamed."

http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...- 2004Aug20.html
AmandaReconwith | 08.02.06 - 9:45 am | #

^LOL ban this foo! Seriously what do we do, just ignore this bullsh!t and hope impartial viewers arenÂ’t completely turned off. Or do we confront these clowns? Every time they post crapola I think we should look to MC Hammer and go... Stop! Shilling time!

Too bad I'm being chastized because I'm jewish.

Dem Bruce Lee Styles- Do not worry about what words we wear.

http://www.gospelthomas.com/gospelthomas36.html

You know, Jesus was a Jew.

How does it feel to worship a jew?

Truth be told, that's what you're doing AmandaReconwith. You're worshipping a Jew.

Ah, the irony.