Support 911Blogger


"Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?

He seems to be Naval Aide Douglas Cochrane. I'll get to how he is identified in a moment. First.....

The 9-11 commission has this scenario in the PEOC, instead of the one described by N Mineta.....

"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President. The military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to engage. The Vice President again said yes"
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

The person telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...60 miles out...etc...is described as his "Military Aide". This would be the "young man" as Mineta described him. Unless there are two different people telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...the plane is 60 miles out....this seems extremely unlikely. So who is this military aide? I'll get to him shortly.

First,this may or may not be true, but the fact is Cheney can't prove it(the part of him getting shoot down authorization), what Cheney is doing is protecting the President, along with Sec of Def Rumsfeld, who are the only two people authorized to issue shoot down orders. Neither one did so, and conspired together not to.................

"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)." page 17/46
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

That's called selective amnesia.

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

I mean....it's right there. The official story is probably right, in that, the passengers having to take over 93, because no one was authorizing any shoot down order, until the attacks were over. It's a proveable fact that no shoot down orders were given until after the last plane (Flight 93) went down. They had no intention of disrupting what they needed to happen. It's not believable that a pilot would take it upon themselves to kill a plane of civilians without authorization.

Here's evidence of a stand down. If the President gave Cheney an order, and they claim it was a shoot down order they can't prove it. They should be able to do that. Instead the proof indicates the order was never given during the attacks (Flight 93 went down at 10:03 or 10:06)....

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

"The Vice President's military aide told us he believed the Vice President spoke to the President just after entering the conference room, but he did not hear what they said. Rice, who entered the room shortly after the Vice President and sat next to him, remembered hearing him inform the President, "Sir, the CAPs are up. Sir, they're going to want to know what to do." Then she recalled hearing him say, "Yes sir." She believed this conversation occurred a few minutes, perhaps five, after they entered the conference room."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Among the sources that reflect other important events of that morning, there is no documentary evidence for this call, but the relevant sources are incomplete."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.pdf

This is where the military aide's testimoney would be crucial, what was the order he was given? But again......even if he says it was a shoot down order, it came from Cheney, and he and Bush (who insisted on testifying together) can't prove it, Cheney is protecting Bush and Rumsfeld both, who never did issue shoot down orders.

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

That's when Bush issued the shoot down order. 10:20, and Rumsfeld never did.

"Bush remained in the classroom for "five to seven minutes" after learning of the second crash as the children around him continued reading. He had his first conversation with Cheney at about 9:15."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17_2.html

But wasn't giving shoot down authorization. How come? How many buildings does it take? How about if the pentagon gets hit, how about then? Still.....Nope.......

"Bush and Cheney spoke again at 9:45, while Bush was on the tarmac aboard Air Force One. By that time, both towers of the World Trade Center were aflame and the Pentagon had been hit."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17_2.html

Pretty outrageous. Still, no intention on giving shoot down authority. If any orders were given, they were stand down orders.

The last plane went down at 10:03 to 10:06...most likely by the passengers. These passengers were in a no win situation, but surely prevented 9/11 from being even more catastrophic than it already was, the nations capital was it's target, and these traitors sure weren't going to stop it.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Here's Condi Rice lieing to you.....

"Q At one point that morning, the President gave an order to the Combat Air Patrol pilots giving them permission to shoot down U.S. commercial airliners. How did that decision come about, and how did you take on board the gravity of that decision?

DR. RICE: The President did give the order to shoot down a civilian plane if it was not responding properly. And it was authority through channels by Secretary Rumsfeld, and the Vice President passed the request, the President said yes."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16571537/T3-B11-EOP-Produced-Documents-Vol-III-Fdr-8602-Terry-MoranABC-Interview-of-Rice-003

John Farmer exposes this false statement in his book "The Ground Truth"......

"The authority was not requested through channels, when Secretary Rumsfeld joined the Air Threat Conference Call at 10:30 and was told about the shoot down order by Vice President Cheney, he was clearly unaware of it. Wether the vice president had requested prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated by the records of the day. page 260
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Untold-America-Attack/dp/1594488940/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260588203&sr=1-1

Cheney made the order on his own (no matter what it was) The first Presidential authorization came at 10:20, according to Arie Fletcher's notes and he was taking notes for this reason, to keep track of what time things were happening for historical reasons.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

Remember:

"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

If he did authorize a shoot down order (which is debateable), he told the President later, after he did it, if he didn't issue a shoot down, he was given the authorization at this later time......

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

This is not what Mineta said by a long shot. Mineta said he didn't even know it was a shootdown order, he makes it clear he that he heard what Cheney said and quotes him. (Whipped his neck around and said "of coarse the order still stands"...etc...)

Libby has already been convicted in a court of Law of lying under oath to protect Cheney. So this story seems false and contrived. This Military Aide's testimony is important. So who is he?

The person telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...60 miles out...etc...is described as his "Military Aide". This would be the "young man" as Mineta described him. Unless there are two different people telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...the plane is 60 miles out....this seems extememly unlikely. So who is this military aide?

Check the footnotes, on this scenario, and the only one that applies to Cheney and the "Military Aide" would be this Douglas Cochrane.....

"215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004); Condeleeza Rice meeting (Feb. 7, 2004). For Rice entering after the Vice President, see USSS report,“Executive Summary:U.S. Secret Service Timeline of Events, September 11–October 3, 2001,” Oct. 3, 2001, p. 2; Carl Truscott interview (Apr. 15, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

We know who Rice is. Truscott is a member of the secret service because....
"interviews of the 3 USSS agents in proximity to the President (Eddie Marenzel) and VP (Truscott and Zotto) are still on hold."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15740811/DM-B8-Team-8-Fdr-Email-From-Hyde-to-Front-Office-Re-White-House-Day-of-Investigation-511

Yes, they wanted to talk with this Military Aide as seen in this released 9-11 commission memo....

"March 2, 2004
New Requests:
(2)VP Military Aide (I believe his last name is Cochrane): The person at the Vice President's side in the PEOC who should have been intimately involved in the military communications chain is his military aide."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15740811/DM-B8-Team-8-Fdr-Email-From-Hyde-to-Front-Office-Re-White-House-Day-of-Investigation-511

They did talk with him according to the 9-11 commission footnotes, a month and a half after that memo....

"215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004);"
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

But we can't see what was said in that interview yet.....

"ACCESS RESTRICTED
The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file:
Folder Title: White House Timelines"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B3-White-House-Timelines-Fdr-Entire-Contents-Doug-Cochrane-and-14-Withdrawal-Notice-...

This is BS. It's 2010 and we still can't see any part of his interview? This needs to be declassified and released.

Yup, he's military....but not so young...you have to remember Mineta was around 71 at the time......

"Cochrane was selected to serve as the Naval Aide to the Vice President in November of 2000 and served Vice President Richard B. Cheney until December 2002. He was commended by President George W. Bush for distinguished service as Naval Aide and Emergency Action Officer, on and about Sept. 11, 2001."
http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1146282991&page_url=%2f%2fwww.mayportmirror.com%2fstories%2f040...

"not young?"

That's an understatement.

The photo here has Cochrane looking to be about 71 years old, himself.

http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1146282991&pa...

If it was Cochrane who was updating Cheney, I find it hard to believe that Mineta would describe him as a "young man." But your research is commendable nonetheless. You should present the picture to Mineta somehow and ask him if this was the guy he was talking about before declaring Cochrane to be the unknown aid.

Young is relative

Maybe he looked young to 71 year old Mineta when he was dressed in a navy uniform fit and trim, old farts have called me a "young fella" and I'm far from it, in any case.......

The only way he isn't the "Do the orders still stand guy" is if another person was doing the exact same thing...
"the plane is 80 miles out...the plane is 60 miles out" etc....this seems extrememly unlikely.......

"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President. The military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to engage. The Vice President again said yes"
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"March 2, 2004
New Requests:
(2)VP Military Aide (I believe his last name is Cochrane): The person at the Vice President's side in the PEOC who should have been intimately involved in the military communications chain is his military aide."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15740811/DM-B8-Team-8-Fdr-Email-From-Hyde-to-F...

Some other questions would be, who is he relaying the orders to? Because NO ONE had authority to shoot down planes until 10:31..........

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

So we are supposed to believe that he was given shoot down orders and kept coming back asking to get them again and again, and never relayed them. I think we should see his interview, I think it would be very interesting, and it's complete BS that it is still classified under "National Security".

age

Note this description of Cochrane with the photo referenced above:
Cochrane was born and raised in Perrine, Fla., and graduated from Texas Christian University with a Bachelor of Science (Mathematics) in December 1985. He was commissioned as an ensign in the United States Navy after completion of Aviation Officer Candidate School in May 1986. Upon completion of Naval Aviator Flight Training in June of 1987, he was designated an Unrestricted Naval Aviator and assigned to Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron Light (HSL) HSL-34, Norfolk, Va.
Perhaps it was a photo of the other officer.

perhaps

"Perhaps it was a photo of the other officer."

That crossed my mind as well.

"Cochrane was born and raised in Perrine, Fla., and graduated from Texas Christian University with a Bachelor of Science (Mathematics) in December 1985. He was commissioned as an ensign in the United States Navy after completion of Aviation Officer Candidate School in May 1986."
http://www.mayportmirror.com/stories/040705/may_hsl44001.shtml

If he went to college after high school and graduated college in '85 that would put his age at around 22 16 years before 9/11 which would make him around 38 at the time. Makes one wonder about that pic.

Find Mineta.....

and ask him if this is the guy about whom he was referring. It doesn't take the release of classified documents to verify your claim. If it all pans out and you're correct, you will have scored a major coup for the movement. But until we can get some sort of confirmation, all of your work is still educated speculation.

Confirming

"It doesn't take the release of classified documents to verify your claim."

It takes the release of classified documents to see the answwers to these questions (check out page 7/14).....
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B3-White-House-Timelines-Fdr-Entir...

Before asking Mineta if he recognizes the picture, we first have to confirm the picture is of the D Cochrane that the Commission notes say was relaying orders from Cheney.

Good idea for the record

Good idea for the record. One day when we break through the mass medai black out, we will need to have this video testimony.And it is a good direction to follow up.

You said a mouthful there.

"So we are supposed to believe that he was given shoot down orders and kept coming back asking to get them again and again, and never relayed them? I think we should see his interview, I think it would be very interesting, and it's complete BS that it is still classified under "National Security"

Looks like they tried to plug that hole with some grade A bovine excrement.

Strategy!

I would like to remind everyone that if we were decide to drop in a whole article, into a blog, after the copy/paste operation, bingo. Saves you a lot of words. Pick well though. You won't be able to get away with it constantly. Under normal conditions, it would be a violation of copyright law, BUT I think it is a snowball's chance of surviving in hell, that any one in this Truth movement, will challenge. After all, these articulate, scinece based scholars, usually ahead of most in their field, DO NOT CARE to challenge for money about such things. They care about getting the word out. Let's copy/paste into other blogs we go to full articles of great relevance! Please, let's do this! I would like to drop this article in a couple of my visitation sites, but, I've already, probably got them more annoyed. The truth, it does hurt to know these things. They are pissed at ME though for bringing more and more of a challenge for them to refute it. They hate that.

9-11 Commission staffers--"Cheney lied"

"The president had left Florida aboard Air Force One at 9:55 a.m. on 9/11 "with no destination at take-off," as last week's 9-11 Commission report noted. Nor had Bush given any known instructions on how to respond to the attacks."

"....a military aide was asking for shoot-down authority, telling Cheney that a fourth plane was "80 miles out" from Washington. Cheney didn't flinch, the report said. "In about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing," he gave the order to shoot it down, telling others the president had "signed off on the concept" during a brief phone chat."

"Bolten was clearly subordinate to Cheney, but "he had not heard any prior conversation on the subject with the president," the 9/11 report notes. Nor did the real-time notes taken by two others in the room, Cheney's chief of staff, "Scooter" Libby—who is known for his meticulous record-keeping—or Cheney's wife, Lynne, reflect that such a phone call between Bush and Cheney occurred or that such a major decision as shooting down a U.S. airliner was discussed."

"The report concluded "there is no documentary evidence for this call."

"NEWSWEEK has learned that some on the commission staff were, in fact, highly skeptical of the vice president's account and made their views clearer in an earlier draft of their staff report. According to one knowledgeable source, some staffers "flat out didn't believe the call ever took place."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251871/site/newsweek/

Pls continue this line of research

Thanks for your research, JimD3100 -- very significant IMO.

Any further information on the aide described by Mineta would be appreciated...

And any ideas of how to question this aide -- perhaps before Congress, or better, an international court?

Proceeding Carefully

If the truth movement makes the claim that the military aide was given a stand down order, and he claims he was given a shoot down order, this will cover up the fact that NO SHOOT DOWN ORDERS WERE GIVEN DURING THE ENTIRE 9/11 ATTACKS, which is in effect a defacto stand down, that fact will be lost and replaced with "The truth movement was wrong". NO SHOOT DOWN AUTHORIZATION IS IN EFFECT A DEFACTO STAND DOWN. We can prove and the 9-11 commission has admitted, that no shoot down authorization was given during the attacks.

Mineta claims this conversation occured ("do the orders still stand?") before the strike on the pentagon. The 9-11 commission is claiming he is mistaken and this conversation was in regards to flight 93. They claim Mineta didn't enter the PEOC until 10:07. There is the POSSIBILITY that Mineta is mistaken in his timeline. Even if Mineta is wrong on his timeline, there remains the fact that no shoot down orders were authorized until AFTER all the planes crashed. If Mineta is correct then they have an even bigger problem of coarse.

One could ask, if the order was a shoot down order then why do we have this?.....

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

The Government will respond by saying "The military Commanders refused to pass on that order to the pilots". How do I know this? Because......

"Both the mission commander and the weapons director indicated they did not pass the order to fighters circling Washington and New York City because they were unsure how the pilots would, or should, proceed with this guidance," the commission reported.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17.html

One would then ask....why is the military refusing to pass on shoot down orders? "they were unsure how the pilots would, or should, proceed with this guidance,"--is not a very good explanation and could be a foggy way of saying "The VP doesn't have the authority, only the President and Sec of Defense have that authority", because........

"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)." page 17/46
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

And these traitors had no intention on doing that which is a defacto stand down.....

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Or the military could simply be lying. There is allot of lying going on here. The bottom line is this.......President Bush and Sec of Defense Rumsfeld refused to issue SHOOT DOWN AUTHORITY, which is in effect a defacto stand down.

The headline reads...."Cheney Authorized Shooting Down Planes"....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17.html

He doesn't have the authority to do that, and he did it after the attacks were over. Claiming Incompetence isn't going to work. Sec Rumsfeld has two records. He is the youngest Sec of Defense ever, and he is the oldest Sec of Defense ever, in other words, he is the most experianced Sec of Def in American history....

"When he was confirmed in 2001, Rumsfeld became both the youngest and the oldest person to serve as secretary of defense."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Inauguration/story?id=122155

And Cheney was a former Sec of Defense himself. Claiming incompetence doesn't fly.

Before claiming anything, we can't prove, we need Cochranes interview released, to see what he says in regards to the questions they went over with him which can be seen here (Page 7/14).....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B3-White-House-Timelines-Fdr-Entir...

BTW----

You need to be a member of this site to contact {I'm not} ($25/ month)

"Send a message to Doug CochraneSend InMail"
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/doug-cochrane/1a/a38/899

I too am

suspicious of the photo for someone who graduated in 1985.

Can anyone get a copy of his college yearbook? Or does anyone know a Texas Christian University alumini, who might be able to get into the alumni website and get a photo or more info?

FWIW, here's a bunch of photos from a Florida paper of a 2007 celebrity event, and it states that one of the people is "Commander Cochrane", but I cannot tell which one he could be:

http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/folder.asp?event=343106&Categor...

positive id?

composite cochrane

I found the catalog picture (top left) of a shirt showing the same logo as his here at the Naval Academy Bookstore Website: http://www.navygear.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Nike...

I found the picture at the top right from your link http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/folder.asp?event=343106&Categor...

The third picture is the one is the one we had questions about. It is found here:

http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1146282991&pa...

I think this is Commander Cochrane. I believe he just has prematurely white hair. The man in the photo in question is likely him.

Thanks

Rob!

Their story changes

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

After they talked to the 9-11 Commission, their amnesia was cured. In 2007 author Robert Draper had full access to interview members of the Bush administration for a book including 6 interviews with Bush himself, you can hear him say it here (it's also said on the cover flap of the book he wrote called "Dead Certain")...........

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/8682

Now Bush claims that is exactly what he and Rumsfeld talked about...LOL! These guys are pathetic, it's interesting to see that they now claim, Mineta was correct, Cheney was in the Bunker when the pentagon was hit and The VP Military Aide came in for both flight 77 AND 93.......

What makes Mineta particulary believable is that he should have known wether or not the pentagon was hit by 10:07 (the time the 9-11 Commission is trying to place him in the bunker)because I knew it, I have a TV...BTW....so did they.....

"In the bunker Cheney sat across the table from Secretary of Transportation Norm Mineta, who was talking on the phone to Federal Aviation Administration deputy administrator Monte Belger. An aide to the VP had stepped into the room to inform Cheney that the plane that had been fifty miles outside Washington was now thirty miles away. Then ten miles away. Belger told Mineta that the plane's transponder had been turned off, that the FAA could follow it's progress only on the radar screen."
A minute later, Belger said, "Uh-oh. We just lost the target."
"Where do you think you lost it"? asked Mineta.
"Somewhere between Pentagon City and Reagon National Airport."
Just then a voice cut in: "Mr Secretary, we just had a confirmed report by an Arlington County police officer that he saw an American Airlines plane going into the Pentagon."

Condi Rice saw the televised image in the Situation Room --page 138
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

Later...

"There were 4,546 planes in the air. One of them, Flight 93, was causing particular concern as it U- turned from its westward passage to S.F. and now barreled toward Washington. From Air Force One, Bush conferred with Cheney, who wanted to know if he could be granted authorization to shoot down any planes that failed to respond to orders."
"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back. "You bet," he said." -- page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back."
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

That's not what he and Rumsfeld told the 9-11 Commission, they both came down with amnesia .........

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"Look at that!" someone called out, and everyone in the bunker glanced at the TV screen. It was 9:59. ...The South Tower of the WTC collapsed."--page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

Like I said...they had TVs in the room, we all knew the pentagon was hit by 10:00 so how could Mineta not?

"A military aide approached Cheney and requested permission to engage flight 93 with fighter planes. "Yes," the VP said-so calmly that the aide thought Cheney hadn't understood the question. So he asked it a second time, and then a third." --page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

The low ranking guards at Abu Ghraib prison went to jail. "Just following orders" is not a defense for carrying out illegale orders. I was in the military, and you are not allowed to carry out illegale orders. For instance if the Secretary of Agriculture, or the Postmaster General ordered the Military to kill a plane of civilians, that would be an illegale order, because......

"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)." page 17/46
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

They would not follow that order because these Generals know it's an illegale order. The VP doesn't have that authority either. Which probably explains why only at 10:31 was the order relayed, after the President authorized it........

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Bush and Rumsfeld conducted the stand down. Cheney attempted to cover for them.

Cheney is protecting these traitors, Rumsfeld deserted his post and has never been held accountable, and Bush's Saudi and CIA friends assisted the hijackers, and he covered that up like the traitor that he is........

Lies Lies and more lies...

The lies are obvious and pathetic, Rumsfeld was informed of both airstrikes at the WTC, but he just assumed pilots were having a bad day and they were accidents, truly pathetic....

"Aubrey Davis of the Pentagon police was standing outside Donald Rumsfeld's office on the third floor of the Pentagon's E ring. Inside, Rumsfeld, though aware that the World Trade Center towers in New York had already been hit, was proceeding with his regularly scheduled CIA briefing. Davis, on the other hand, had concluded from watching TV news that the country was under attack and the pentagon might be a target." page 1
http://www.amazon.com/Rumsfeld-Rise-Fall-Catastrophic-Legacy/dp/B000WPKK...

"The Secretary was informed of the second strike in New York during the briefing; he resumed the briefing while awaiting more information. After the Pentagon was struck, Secretary Rumsfeld went to the parking lot to assist with rescue efforts." --- 9-11 Commission
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Nope, no shoot down orders coming from that guy.....how obvious and pathetic....and they let him get away with this sh*t.

When Flight 77 hit, the defense secretary thought it was a bomb.
"I had no idea," Rumsfeld said on ABC's This Week.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/16/pentagon-timeline.htm

King: It was a jarring thing. And you ran toward the smoke?
Rumsfeld: Uh huh.
King: Because?
Rumsfeld: Goodness. Who knows? I wanted to see what had happened.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=260

Lies and more lies.....

“The overwhelming bulk of the evidence was that this was an attack that was likely to take place overseas.” -- C Rice
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?the_post-9/11_world=denials&t...

Title of Aug 6 Memo Given to President Bush "Bin Laden Determined to Strike IN U.S."
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066154

Lies Lies and more Lies.....

The Washington Times
Jets had orders to shoot at airliners
September 17, 2001

"Minutes after terrorists crashed hijacked planes into the World Trade Center, President Bush ordered military jets into the air around Washington with orders to shoot down any airliner that refused to turn away from the city, Vice President Richard B. Cheney said yesterday."
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_a...

Minutes? No, it was well over an hour later when the attacks were over. This is a deliberate lie.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Mr. Bush said yesterday he gave the order from Florida on Tuesday morning when he realized "we were under attack."
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_a...

LIE...he gave the order after he found out the last plane crashed.......

"The time of notification of the crash of United 93 was 10:15."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233007

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

Lies.....

"DR. RICE: "The President did give the order to shoot down a civilian plane if it was not responding properly. And it was authority through channels by Secretary Rumsfeld, and the Vice President passed the request, the President said yes."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16571537/T3-B11-EOP-Produced-Documents-Vol-III...

"The authority was not requested through channels, when Secretary Rumsfeld joined the Air Threat Conference Call at 10:30 and was told about the shoot down order by Vice President Cheney, he was clearly unaware of it. Wether the vice president had requested prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated by the records of the day." page 260
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Untold-America-Attack/dp/1594488940/r...

"I gave our military the orders necessary to protect Americans; do whatever it would take to protect Americans. And of course, that's difficult. Never in anybody's thought process about how to protect America did we ever think that the evil-doers would fly not one but four commercial aircraft into precious U.S. targets, never," said the president
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_a...

Never in anybody's thought process about how to protect America did we ever think that the evil-doers would fly not one but four commercial aircraft into precious U.S. targets, never," said the president
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_a...

Lies.....

"We told the Americans about the plans to turn planes into flying bombs as far back as 1995," he complained to reporters." -- Gen. Avelino "Sonny" Razon, one of the lead investigators in the Bojinka case
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bust_and_boom.html

"Our investigation has further determined that the use of airplanes as weapons has been widely known for years within the intelligence community in the United States, France and other countries, as a potential strategy to be carried out by Usama Bin laden and his terrorist network."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14863615/T2-B10-Motley-Submission-Fdr-French-I...

Six years before the September 11 attacks, Philippine police took down an al Qaeda cell that had been plotting, among other things, to fly explosives-laden planes into the Pentagon.

"All those years in flight school, he confessed, had been in preparation for a suicide mission. He was to buy, rent, or steal a small plane, fill it with explosives and crash it into CIA headquarters, while others would fly planes into other targets. He mentioned the other targets being the White House, the Pentagon and some skyscrapers. The only problem, Murad complained, was that they needed trained pilots to carry out the plot." --Washington Post
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bust_and_boom.html

Now some truth.....

"WASHINGTON — In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings."
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903...

"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."
http://www.newsweek.com/2001/09/23/bush-we-re-at-war.html

Conversation with Douglas Cochrane

Thanks to the excellent research by "jimd3100" I was able to get ahold of Douglas Chochrane and ask him some questions. Unfortunately Mr. Chochrane did not have much to say other than:

"The 911 commission report is the authoritative narrative on the events of 911.. I have nothing further to add"

youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O0TP_7UWok

WOW

At 4:00 in the video, Cochrane says 'Oh, I DO remember Secretary Mineta,' like his memory had just clicked and it surprised him. I would take this to mean Cochrane was almost certainly present at the events in question.

Then he goes back to refusing to make any meaningful comments. But he NEVER DENIES that he was the 'young man' in Mineta's story. It sounds like he is very averse to lying, and so he just blocks out any real reply to that question. He never says "I don't know what you are talking about."

With him 'remembering Mineta', and then avoiding the real issue, I would guess he knows more than he is saying. He could easily be Mineta's 'young man.'

That's real tenacity, shure! Great ending comments, too, they would weigh on anyone's conscience.

I hope there is some way to pursue this further.

It's against the law for him to talk

Kevin O said.."With him 'remembering Mineta', and then avoiding the real issue, I would guess he knows more than he is saying. He could easily be Mineta's 'young man."

It's him allright. Page 7/14 is what the 9-11 commission talked with him about.....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B3-White-House-Timelines-Fdr-Entir...

His answers have been withdrawn and classified. It's against the law for him to talk about classified information(Jeff was not aware of this fact, when he called him)

So his answers were really the only answer he could give. He's in a tough spot, and frankly was, IMO being as polite as possible. He's a good soldier and is not going to give classified info over the phone. And he's not going to lie to someone or hang up on them. He shouldn't be in this spot because his answers should not be classified.

It's preposterous that his answers are classified, and they need to be released.
Also..
At 6:25 He said he "answered every question the 9-11 commission asked both in a public forum and later in a classified forum".

I wasn't aware he testified in a public forum. Where is the transcript for this? ANYBODY??