Graeme MacQueen & Michael Keefer v. Debunkers - TVO - 9.9.2008

The original podcast from the Canadian TVO is no longer streaming, so here is a re-post at;

Part 1

Part 2

Well we now know the names of two CIA operatives

Occam would not be happy

If I didn't know anything about 9/11:

Truth guys are telling the truth
Debunkers are lying badly (I'd like to get in a poker game with these weasels)

John Ray

The comments this guy made should be seen as ridiculous if given any significant thought.

He doesn't back up his bare assertion that the Enron files in WTC 7 would have had duplicates. He then goes on to say the Enron trials took place in Houston. Those trials had nothing to do with the 2001 California Electricity swindle, a proven conspiracy which was headed up by Enron, and are what the files in the WTC 7 SEC offices concerned.

I haven't heard of any other investigations into what happened in California in early 2001. We know Enron was involved in creating an over demand and 800% price increases, due to tapes that Tacoma Power and Light forced the Justice department to release.

82% in their poll are not buying the fiction

That is an AMAZING number!

I thank everyone who has contributed to the monumental effert to get the TRUTH out and change minds.

North Texans for 911 Truth
North Texans for 911 Truth Meetup Site



This is very exciting to see real debates on TV, wow!

I really enjoyed seeing the debunkers having to outright lie to score points.

Cell phones at 35K, and the comtinuous repetition of how impossible the conspiracy has to be rather than debating the evidence is so obviously desparation at work!.

Our side did a great job!

One critisism though is that mentioning the change of the NORAD Protocols in June 2001 would have made a much stronger argument for the stand down than just the Mineta testimony and the cordite smell.

Thank you!

Kindest regards John

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

Great points John! Exactly.

Great points John! Exactly. We forget how important the best evidence is. 'What hit the Pentagon' is a Trojan Horse relative to everything else. Yet it seems like a lot of Canadians focus on that, like Kee Dewdney, so they seem to not be aware of the refutations.

I recommend these:

The Pentagon Honey Pot
A collection of quotes on the Pentagon Controversy

Pentagon Attack Errors

There are numerous pieces of evidence that point to the attack on the Pentagon being an inside job. These include:

* The location of the attack: The portion of the Pentagon that was struck was nearly empty due to a renovation program.
* The aircraft approach maneuver: The attack plane executed an extreme spiral dive maneuver to strike said portion of the building from the southwest, opposite the direction from which it approached the capital.
* The incompetence of the alleged pilot: Flight 77 was supposedly piloted by Hani Hanjour, about whom a flight instructor said: "He couldn't fly at all".
* Signs of a cover-up: Numerous actions by officials indicate an ongoing cover-up of the facts concerning the attack.

These and other undisputed facts, constituting highly incriminating evidence of involvement of officials in the attack and coverup, have been largely eclipsed by an ongoing controversy over whether the Pentagon was hit by a jetliner at all. From early 2002, some skeptics of the official story have maintained that the Pentagon was attacked, not by a jetliner, but one of or a combination of a truck bomb, a missile or cruise missile, an attack drone aircraft or commuter jet, a flyover by a 757, and internal demolition charges. 9-11 Research provides a history of Pentagon strike theories.


Yes, they are resorting to some outright lies. I'm 11:47 minutes into it right now and Jeff Flanders is talking about how there was no direct communication between the FAA and NORAD and about how the FAA had to "literally pick up the phone and dial." Flanders "literally" quoted that infamous lie VERBATIM.

She was told what she saw

September 18, 2008

Alex Jones talks to former Pentagon employee April Gallup about her experience at ground zero on September 11, 2001.

Some Pentagon employees

Some Pentagon employees count, others don't. Can we guess which ones count? Only those who report something other than FL77. The ones who report a large jetliner must be thrown out.

john ray?

if you listen carefully, you'll notice that mr john ray told us everything we need to know about how 9/11
was pulled off. at least how wtc1, wtc2 and wtc7 were demolished. how much time it took, how much
explosives it took, how many people, how much money. too bad he's too dumb to realize it. i guess
that's why he is a debunker in the first place, right? :)

the gvt bufoon is not even worthy of any comment at all. he's just flat-out lying. his face shows it.
on the other hand, mr john ray stutters too & gulps a bit too much. kinda reminds me of james
meigs. like, they know the "truth" and what "really" happened but when it comes for them to
present that same truth, they magically start gulping, sweating and stuttering. both meigs and
ray. and it's so obvious that i'm really wondering whether all of them debunkers are actually
criminally insane. because you just have to be insane to lie so obviously... and then just continue
lying so obviously. even if other people notice it. and bring their attention to their lies and the way
they present their lies.

it's like this world has gone bonkers the minute george bush came into power. amazing! and
scary as hell at the same time, must say.

"wtf i hate all cops"

Does anyone know how many people make up the statistiques ?

Herblay FRANCE

this is very good.

The statistiques at the end are interesting. Only thing missing is to know on how many callers are the stats based on ?50, 100 , 500, 1000, 5000, 50000 , ... ?



Interesting Video

All I know is that if I didn't know 9/11 was an inside job I still wouldn't know who to believe. It would still be a mystery to me. I just wish someone like DRG was part of the discussion panel. Being a truther I have studied the facts and the official story is a bold faced lie. I just hope people who watched this presentation do some studying themselves. I am sure they would end up being MIHOP.


So far, at 8 min into the first vid, I am seeing two very professional debunkers creating perfect obfuscation and confusion for the fence-sitter. Our side, so far, is not calling these guys out on the straw-men they shoot from their barrel.


Our side: They had the hijacker list within the same day. Isn't that interesting, how were they able to know who did it so soon?

[Then watch how the other side engages in distortions and lies in order to create a straw man.]

Debunkers: No, they didn't, they originally made errors, and had to revise the list, and a lot of the conspiracy theorists love to point out that several hijackers are still alive, but these actually were were cases of mistaken identity, wrong person with same name, etc.

THAT IS A LIE!!!! The list has NEVER been revised and no, these were NOT cases of names and people being mis-matched. The very Waleed al-Sheri who told the world, "That is my name and face, and I am alive" is still on the 19 hijackers list to this day. OUR SIDE NEEDS TO KNOW HOW TO SPOT THESE LIES AND CALL OUR OPPOSITION ON IT!!!! I bet many skeptics of our side who viewed that might have felt an inclination toward the debunkers' "refutation" at that point.

You can spot a paid debunker by how smoothly and subtly he is able to win, or at least confuse, the undecided by way of the straw man.

PS Remember folks, the straw man is a cloaked form of a LIE.

List of Hijackers finalized 3 days after 9/11

I agree, but it is also true that they did revise the list of alleged hijackers. The final list of alleged hijackers came 3 days after the attack. Hani Hanjour was added at this time. CNN retracted some names as well. I have documented the details of this here:
A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog

I don't really see why it's

I don't really see why it's necessary to argue about every minute detail of the physical evidence of the day. The only thing that MacQueen and Keefer needed to do was focus entirely on in inadequacy of the 9/11 Commission. That alone, is enough to make the case for a real investigation. Instead, you have four people, who aren't really qualified to make these kinds of assertions about steel, physics, etc. arguing in a circle. If one just focuses on the Commission, no one can argue it's legitimacy with a straight face.

Justin A. Martell

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach! Fearing not that I'd become my enemy in the instant that I preach! My pathway led by confusion boats...mutiny from stern to bow!

You are absolutely correct Mr. Martell....

There has been no real investigation into the murders of those people on 9/11.
We know we've been lied to so how can we accept anything less than a full investigation.


Like with any crime or who done it, you look at motives and means,who benefits and follow the money trail. All roads lead to the neocons. The Arabs sure didn't have anything to gain. What did Bush say was their reason? "They hate our freedom." Please Mr Bush, give me a break. As bad as times are, at least he and Cheney will be out of office soon. That is something to be grateful for.

The moderator did a good job

The moderator did a good job. The station did a good job letting the moderator do a good job.
If we had decent media, and decent moderators in the US, the truth would soon come out.

My only real criticism is that the public (and by the public I mean the whole world) deserves to see hours and hours and hours of in-depth discussion.

The public deserves to see ALL the evidence - the photos - the confiscated videos.

AND the world deserves to have President Bush and Vice President Cheney testify seperately, under oath, and with video and audio records made available to the public.

The public - and by "the public" I mean the whole world is paying a bitter and protracted price for this catastrophe. The world deserves the facts to see the light of day - not the darkness of "classified."

traitor supporter

TO John Ray

your sir are a filthy rotten sticken NEFT CLEFT. How dare you dis honor the memory of those that died by supporting a LIE. How dare you speak in coded rhymes put forth to invoke a violent reaction to your words, you are nothing more than a pencil pushing low life SCUM. Hell if there is one certainly has a reservation in your name and the sooner you go and fill that reservation the better.

Tony Nicer
"Real Eyes Realize Real Lies"

traitor supporter

TO John Ray

your sir are a filthy rotten sticken NEFT CLEFT. How dare you dis honor the memory of those that died by supporting a LIE. How dare you speak in coded rhymes put forth to invoke a violent reaction to your words, you are nothing more than a pencil pushing low life SCUM. Hell if there is one certainly has a reservation in your name and the sooner you go and fill that reservation the better.

Tony Nicer
"Real Eyes Realize Real Lies"

John Ray - Bootlicker

This kid needs to lay off the Starbucks. What a terrible liar he is. He is like a co-intelpro reject. He's sweating, blinking and grasping to say anything to support the official story.

One truther put it best; The debunkers are now sounding like the nuts. The truthers are level headed, rational thinkers. I love it.

Worst debunker answer ever.

I left a couple of other comments on this thread while I was watching. After watching the whole thing, it's safe to say that the debunkers were destroyed.

When the host asked the question to the debunkers: "Why was the steel taken away so rapidly and sold off so it couldn't be inspected?" The guy's answer was "Because I don't think anybody would have predicted that seven years later we'd be sitting here debating this." WOW!! That is THE ABSOLUTE WORST and most hollow I've EVER heard from our opposition, and they've told some mighty whoppers.

The Lie Repeated: "Air Defences faced Outward"

Jefferson Flanders: "To the question of our air defenses ,U.S. air defenses were faced outwards. We were not looking for internal threats. There was no direct link between our FAA and the military. They had to pick up a phone and call. I think we need to remember the pre-9/11 environment."

Uh, didn't we just hear this lie in the U.K. debate?

This claim was even debunked by a 9/11 commissioner:

“Consider that an aircraft emergency exists ... when: ...There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with any ...aircraft.” —FAA Order 7110.65M 10-2-5 (6)

A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog

Suggestion for 9/11 truthers

I just watched two excellent 9/11 truth debates and they were well done.

However, no one is talking about the 9/11 promotions. No one is talking about the fact no one was fired. This is an incredibly significant 9/11 fact that needs to be emphasized. The whole basis of 9/11 is framed as an "attack" against America. Who is supposed to prevent these attacks? Why weren't people held accountable? Why were officials promoted as few as three DAYS after the attack?

The point is even if you BELIEVE the official story, the official story itself is ABSURD because of this fact alone. And it can't be countered with cheap talking points: No one got fired and people were promoted. This is an indisputable fact.

This is an indestructible talking point that should be exploited in debates. There can be no "debate" on this issue. No one can reasonably explain why the people most responsible for preventing the attacks were promoted. No one can explain why whistle blowers are the only people being reprimanded.

The truth is that if people are threatened with job loss, they are going to point the fingers at who was giving the orders. This is why no one was fired.
A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog