Open Thread

This week got off to a quick start eh?

What's the news today?

Have at it.

Bird is the word.

Bird is the word.

I was thinking about the

I was thinking about the alleged bribing of the Commissioners...

You know what infuriates me about this besides the obvious? The Commission was allegedly lobbied to omit certain things from the report. The Commission was also lobbied by the family members to seek the truth. Obviously, we know who and what was more important to them.

http://www.dailykos.com/story

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/14/72952/9594

I don't know how dailykos' diaries get "busy"... does it have to be that great a topic or is there something you have to do?

Is Kevin Ryan's lecture

Is Kevin Ryan's lecture tomorrow going to be videotaped, anyone know??

FrankV, darn, i must've

FrankV,

darn, i must've missed that.. thanks for the heads up.

Good luck to our courageous

Good luck to our courageous and wonderful Scholars today!!

Members of the society will present their findings during a press conference to be held at 1 PM on Tuesday at the United States Courthouse in Alexandria, VA . . .
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/PressRelease12Mar2006.html

Jon, I rec'ed your diary.

Jon, I rec'ed your diary. I'm not sure how many you need to get it on the front page...

Good luck to all in bringing

Good luck to all in bringing justice and truth to those who need a large dose of both.

Is it true the government

Is it true the government admits there was no plane that hit the pentagon?

Here in Norway they said so on the news. Now they say it was a bomb.. What the hell?

Thanks The

Thanks The Professional.

Wesley, never happened. There were reports on the day of that a truck bomb was in D.C. That's all I know.

Jon Gold, you say "The

Jon Gold, you say "The [9/11] Commission was also lobbied by the family members to seek the truth"?

If the family members of the murdered victims of the 9/11 attacks wanted the truth concerning the 9/11 attacks they wouldn't bother with any government panel set up to investigate said government. That's akin to having Jeffrey Dahmer investigate Jeffrey Dahmer.

If what said family members want is the truth, then they can find that out via their own search for the truth, just as a number of us have done.

Where are all the friends

Where are all the friends and family of the victims?

James... The family members

James...

The family members fought for the creation of a Commission. Certainly not the one that was presented to them. They wanted scholars, historians, and academics to investigate the attacks, not members of the "Beltway". They wanted a representative from the family members to be on the panel as well. That didn't happen.

I think it's a safe bet that the family members who were involved in lobbying for the creation of the Commission, know more than anyone on the net regarding 9/11.

The fact that the Commission was compromised from the beginning was not their fault.

"Where are all the friends

"Where are all the friends and family of the victims?"

Their friends are here.

Jon Gold: They said so here

Jon Gold:

They said so here (in Norway), on the national news, so there has to be something to it.

Im gonna call them.

Wesley... "the government

Wesley...

"the government admits there was no plane that hit the pentagon"

Never happened... Take my word for it. If it did happen, someone like me, dz, and every other truther on this board from the U.S. would have heard of it... If it was on a news broadcast, then it was junk news.

it's possible that in Norway

it's possible that in Norway they are referring to this::
runsfeld admits that missile hit pentagon

or maybe this:: FBI claims

Jon , I have been a follower

Jon , I have been a follower of this for a while(years). Could you please provide a link or some kind of proof that the government admits No Plane hit the pentagon? Man this is getting juicy!
I think some people have been closer and closer to this truth. Lets hope the scholars doo good today.

Jimmy... no such link exists

Jimmy... no such link exists to my knowledge... that's what I'm saying... it never happened.

If the Rumsfeld statement is

If the Rumsfeld statement is what they're referring to, he also said a missile hit Flight 93... However, the "Government" (9/11 Report) states that it was Flight 77, and not a missile.

Jon Gold, you say "I think

Jon Gold, you say "I think it's a safe bet that the family members who were involved in lobbying for the creation of the Commission, know more than anyone on the net regarding 9/11."

That is not the case. If they knew so much they wouldn't be looking towards government to reveal the crimes of government, any more than a family member of a murdered victim of Jeffrey Dahmer would depend on Jeffrey Dahmer to tell on himself.

For more on this, see the below article:

"Why the Families are Wrong, Dead Wrong," Angieon911.com, January 11, 2005:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id28.html

One exception to the above would be the 400-plus family members of victims murdered in the 9/11 attacks who are suing the U.S. government for staging the 9/11 attacks, and represented by Attorney Stanley Hilton (former senior counsel for Bob Dole). The federal class action lawsuit was dismissed by Judge Illston on grounds of "Sovereign Immunity," but Attorney for the plaintiffs, Stanley Hilton, is preparing an appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and hopes to reverse the judge's ruling.

For the most part the family members of murdered victims of the U.S. government-staged PsyOp attacks are ignorant dupes just like most people are. Being a family member of a murdered victim of said attack doesn't endow one with any special insight into the actual perpetrators of the attacks. If anything it just makes their cognitive dissonance even more extreme, since having lost a family member it will make it even harder for them to come to terms with the hated truth.

It's not family member of the murdered victims of the 9/11 attacks who are the most outspoken on the fact that it was the U.S. government which staged the attacks. Rather, it is those who have gone through the process of educating themselves on the subject of government-staged terrorism throughout history who are the most outspoken on the matter.

911CitizensWatch today

911CitizensWatch today offers a valuable and cautious perspective on the Pakistan bribery story, picking it up but noting in part the lack of further confirmation and that there may have already been enough incentive to 'downplay' Pakistani connections in the final report, without bribery.

Please forgive my ignorance

Please forgive my ignorance here Jon, Are you saying it never happened as in a Missle Or a Plane or neither?
Sorry i'm a little confused.

I agree with Redford. Most

I agree with Redford. Most 9/11 families don't have a clue about Gov't complicity. They were shocked, awed, & brainwashed like most everyone else.

Another oddity was the huge, unprecedented $$$ awarded to the 9/11 families. A few hundred grand or a couple of million makes for fine "hush money" you know.

I agree with Redford. Most 9/11 families don't have a clue about Gov't complicity. They were shocked, awed, & brainwashed like most everyone else.

Another oddity was the huge, unprecedented $$$ awarded to the 9/11 families. A few hundred grand or couple of million makes effective "hush money" you know.

(BTW, Mr. Gold, I think they're trying to snooker us into another endless no-plane quagmire, above.)

Oops, kindly excuse my

Oops, kindly excuse my double post.

I;m trying to provoke a

I;m trying to provoke a quagmire here anon. I already am involved in one of those elsewhere. Maybe I'm not reading this thread closely enough.Trust me i'm not here to debate anyone.This is where I come to find answers and pass on to other places. It is a movement afterall.

http://www.kucinich.us/phpBB2

I'm saying that the

I'm saying that the Govnerment never admitted, or mentioned that something other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

James, I said the families who fought for the creation of the commission are more knowledgeable in 9/11 than anyone on the net. That statement is true.

I just spent 4 hours with Bob McIlvaine. The man is a walking encyclopedia. The same rings true for people like Laurie Van Auken, Kristen Breitweiser, etc...

The problem with them is that most won't come out and say the Government was complicit. Why, I don't know, but they don't.

Donna Marsh O'Connor, Bob McIlvaine, etc... are the exceptions to the rule.

(I'm not implying the

(I'm not implying the families were outright bribed with blood money to shut up. Rather, such huge $$$ does have a calming psychological effect, & shows the Govy deeply cares about them, etc. Also, no need for any pesky law suites, where real facts might be exposed about 9/11.)

On the morning of September

On the morning of September 11, Pakistan's Chief Spy General Mahmoud Ahmad, the alleged "money-man" behind the 9-11 hijackers, was at a breakfast meeting on Capitol Hill hosted by Senator Bob Graham and Rep. Porter Goss, the chairmen of the Senate and House Intelligence committees.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO206A.html

Since we know there were never any hijackers, how does the above information relate to Pakistan bribing 9/11 Commission members?

Jon Gold, you say "The

Jon Gold, you say "The problem with [the family members of the murdered victims of the 9/11 attacks] is that most won't come out and say the Government was complicit. Why, I don't know, but they don't."

Well, Jon, my concern isn't with what information may be rolling around in their heads. If they don't spit it out then it isn't a help to anyone.

I can only go based upon what I see. And the family members of the murdered victims of the 9/11 attacks have certainly not been the most outspoken on the fact that the U.S. government staged the 9/11 attacks.

Their loss is something to feel sad about, but it's no reason to deify them and make them out to be experts on the real perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks.

Let's not confuse being a family member of a murdered victim as having some great insight into the true cause of the crime. That only comes with hard intellectual work in insvestigating hated truths, of which said family members have no monopoly on--and indeed, from what I have seen, are deficient in.

Interesting. I didn't post

Interesting. I didn't post twice but this forum created two entrees for the same post of mine.

Yes, conversely, imagine if

Yes, conversely, imagine if the 9/11 families had been left hanging with zero, zilch, nada?

It was definite hush money, subconsciously or otherwise.

"Let's not confuse being a

"Let's not confuse being a family member of a murdered victim as having some great insight into the true cause of the crime."

I don't think you understand what it is I'm saying...

These people lost their sons, daughters, husbands, wives, mothers, and fathers...

For some, they had to know why and how it happened. They needed to know for closure sake. As a result, they spent countless hours researching 9/11. Moreso than most of us.

"For some, they had to know

"For some, they had to know why and how it happened. They needed to know for closure sake. As a result, they spent countless hours researching 9/11. Moreso than most of us."

Perhaps that is the case. But it does no one any good unless they take a stand and speak out on the matter load and clear.

I'm not interested in what knowledge may be rolling around in their heads. What I am interested in is what people come out and say. Our task is to wake people up and educate people, and such edification can only happen by speaking out.

Excuse me, that should read

Excuse me, that should read "loud," not "load."

If you watched the interview

If you watched the interview I did with Mr. McIlvaine, he said "you can't do this everyday"... reliving the death of your son, daughter, mother, father, brother, sister, etc... everyday... they can't do it. That's why none have come forward for the most part. Yes, we want people who will come out and speak the truth, but we must always respect the families. At least for me, I will always respect them.

Thanks Jon for clearing that

Thanks Jon for clearing that up for me.I wasn't trying to be a distraction to this thread.And I Applaud everything you are doing in this movement.Thank you,from an average everyday joe for helping to spread the truth whether it hurts people or not. The truth won't kill thoulsands of people and lead to endless war.

Nice post Jon. Not to put a

Nice post Jon. Not to put a damper on yours, but there's also a diary that got promoted to the "Recommended" area with some WCT discussion going on: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/13/193450/981

I still haven't figured how many recommendation, and how fast, you need to get "recommended". I just read though that kos is going to change the system in the coming months. He said some wont think it's fair. i'm guessing that it's going to be harder, rather than easier, to get to the front. We'll see though.

Lorie Van Auken is one of

Lorie Van Auken is one of the most well-versed 9/11 researchers out there.

Lorie Van Auken, July 22nd, 2005
http://www.gnn.tv/B11995

THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT ONE YEAR LATER...
http://www.gnn.tv/B12001

Jon Gold, I don't see where

Jon Gold, I don't see where you are actually disagreeing with me.

I have said that the 9/11 families have not been very outspoken on the fact that the 9/11 attacks were staged by the U.S. government. You have offered reasons to explain that fact, but you have not contradicted it.

And as I have said, it doesn't matter what knowledge may be in a person's head unless they actually spit it out. Our concern is to edify people, and edification cannot happen without speaking out.

james, duplicate posts

james,

duplicate posts frequently come from publishing a comment and then later refreshing that comment window, which in turn posts the data again.. ive done it a few times myself..

after you post close the window, then go back to the comments.. if you refresh after posting it can cause double posts..

Gold & Redford: good cop,

Gold & Redford:

good cop, bad cop...one rails, the other coddles...in the end it is all the same.

divide and conquer....keep it going and the disinfo agents will be out of a job.

great, there goes my pension. thanks alot:)

Again, I didn't post twice,

Again, I didn't post twice, but this forum created two entrees for my above post. Interesting.

Anyone want to chime in

James, I said, "I think it's

James, I said, "I think it's a safe bet that the family members who were involved in lobbying for the creation of the Commission, know more than anyone on the net regarding 9/11."

You said, "That is not the case."

I'm saying it is.

"http://www.blogger.com/comme

"http://www.blogger.com/comment.g...70&isPopup=true"

Unfortunately, many people on the above blog believe the 9/11 yarn spun on http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html

Like a Gov't website would refute the official Gov't story of 9/11!!! (Specious, superficial excuses supporting the official story are given there. New-comers & average Joes just glance it once like a novel, and they fall for that official-sounding crap.)

Like a Gov't website would

Like a Gov't website would refute the official Gov't story of 9/11!!!

:) :+:

Great debate! Lets keep it

Great debate! Lets keep it going. Has any one read MorganReynold's article in response to Jim Hoffman on why he believes the 'no plane' theory is a legitimate question? I was also very suspicious of these theories but Morgan's analysis was excellent in at least explaining why intellegent people ( i.e. not disinfo agents) might look into this. II've come to conclude that whether the 'no plane' theories should be the focus or even a part of the larger 911 debate is more a political or tactitical consideration rather yet it remains a potentially valuable avenue of scientific or general research. Does any one know why Mr. Reynolds article was removed from the home page of scholars for 911 research and placed in the resourse section? Was it political/ tactical or were there technical problems with his analysis? Has Jim Hoffman replied?

Jon Gold, you say, "" James,

Jon Gold, you say,

""
James, I said, "I think it's a safe bet that the family members who were involved in lobbying for the creation of the Commission, know more than anyone on the net regarding 9/11."

You said, "That is not the case."

I'm saying it is.
""

Well, Jon, if what you say above is true then it's also quite irrelevant, since the family members of the murdered victims of the 9/11 attacks certainly have not been very outspoken concerning the fact that the U.S. government staged the 9/11 attacks.

Nor is it the case that what you say above is true, for it is not true. Indeed, it is false.

For if said people actually knew as much as anyone on this subject then they would be proclaiming it from atop every hill and mountain, figuratively speaking.

If one recognizes the fact that the U.S. government staged the 9/11 attacks yet doesn't speak out about it then one is still in the dark. Genuine knowledge on this subject includes knowing that one must edify others regarding the truth of the 9/11 attacks. If one hasn't realized that then one is still deceived on the most vital point.

James... I guess you didn't

James... I guess you didn't see me say this... "If you watched the interview I did with Mr. McIlvaine, he said "you can't do this everyday"... reliving the death of your son, daughter, mother, father, brother, sister, etc... everyday... they can't do it. That's why none have come forward for the most part."

radical pragmatist, I assume

radical pragmatist, I assume by "no plane" you are referring to the "no Boeing 757" at the Pentagon.

Let's get our terminology correct here. Saying "no plane" smears many of those who maintain that no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon, as many of said people maintain that an aircraft (i.e., a plane) smaller than a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon.

I have seen no convincing evidence that a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon. Supposed eyewitness testimony given to the major media which actually names a Boeing 757 is quite suspect, since unless they are aircraft experts one would not expect them to be able to actually name the make and model of the aircraft they supposedly saw--in other words, their major media testimony is tainted by what they had already been told hit the Pentagon, assuming they aren't actually government plants.

The U.S. government is in possession of something on the order of a hundred or more video tapes which recorded the Pentagon during that attack. Yet the U.S. government maintains that they cannot release said video tapes due to "National Security."

This excuse is utterly absurd, since if the U.S. government's claims about what hit the Pentagon are correct then the most that said video tapes will show is what the U.S. government already told the world is what hit the Pentagon.

Now, there is the other side to the coin brought up by those in the 9/11 Truth movement who are worried that the U.S. government is playing a PsyOp game on the 9/11 Truth movement. That is, a Boeing 757 did actually hit the Pentagon and the tapes show that, but the U.S. government is holding the tapes back in order to be able to embarrass the 9/11 Truth movement.

Either way, the holding back of these tapes by the U.S. government demonstrates beyond any reasonable doubt that the U.S. government is acting with deceptive and illegitimate designs in mind. That is, either they actually do have something to hide by holding these tapes back or they are playing some sick game.

Jon Gold, I haven't asked

Jon Gold, I haven't asked them to do it every day. Just once would be a great start.

It's not because some of

It's not because some of them don't know. They do.

Some of them have. Albeit

Some of them have. Albeit very few. You could probably count them on one hand.

I, for one, am a firm

I, for one, am a firm believer that if the family members came out as a group to make the accusation, our job would be done. I wish they would. They're not.

Just SAY it Kristen. Just

Just SAY it Kristen. Just SAY it Lorie. Just SAY it Mindy. If they would just SAY it once... our job would be done. I could have my life back. I would like my life back.

Take care of yourself Jon.

Take care of yourself Jon. We need your drive, your humanity, your patience, your broad knowledge base and your humor. If it means taking time off for a minute or two to eat, then by all means, do it!

Flash inspiration
http://www.mark2000.com/911/911-distro.swf

Jon Gold, above you said "I

Jon Gold, above you said "I could have my life back. I would like my life back."

Jon Gold, things weren't right before the 9/11 attacks--not by a long shot. I've been in this war long before the 9/11 attacks, and I was saying on day-one of the 9/11 attacks that the U.S. government staged it. How did I know? Because I know history--genuine history.

And because I know genuine political theory and economics (i.e., genuine liberal philosophy--what is called today free-market anarchism and Austrian economics).

The 9/11 attacks were just business as usual for the U.S. government. Franklin D. Roosevelt murdered as many U.S. citizens during his contrived Pearl Harbor attack. Under Bill Clinton we had his staged 1993 World Trade Center bombing and his 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.

Whether a person calls them Democrats or Republicans, they are all on the same team.

But so also I knew because I know which entity is the god and ruler of this Earth: Satan. For more on that, see the below article by me, fist published on Anti-State.com:

"Jesus Is an Anarchist," James Redford, revised and expanded edition, November 9, 2005:

http://www.geocities.com/vonchloride/anarchist-jesus.pdf

Once again, I didn't post

Once again, I didn't post twice. This forum has never done this to me before today, but for some reason it is double-posting a number of my posts today.

when I see/hear the term "no

when I see/hear the term "no plane" I assume the reference is to something along the lines of this.

Hey Gold & Redford: You've

Hey Gold & Redford: You've done some of the finest infighting & hairsplitting I've seen here. If you gentlemen can just turn some more of this engery outward, we will make great progress in the truth movement. Thank you.

"Take care of yourself Jon.

"Take care of yourself Jon. We need your drive, your humanity, your patience, your broad knowledge base and your humor. If it means taking time off for a minute or two to eat, then by all means, do it!"

I've been hearing that a lot lately...

Hey you guys... healthy

Hey you guys... healthy debate is ok... neither James nor myself were "rude".

Incidentally... debating is

Incidentally... debating is what teaches you how to approach people.

You guys want to go educate

You guys want to go educate some people who need it?

http://www.sternchat.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=8

Knock... yourselves... out...

They are my mortal

They are my mortal enemies... :)

I made a mistake about that

I made a mistake about that pentagon thingy...... Got a little carried away.. Man, I wish something will happen soon.

Anyway, sorry.

Once that petition hits

Once that petition hits 10,000 it'll be cool to know I was one of the first 10.

It's funny you mention that

It's funny you mention that DHS... on the Justicefor911.org petition, I was #36... on the scholars petition, I'm #37... on the next one, I'll probably be #38.

Mr. Gold, that sternchat

Mr. Gold, that sternchat link you posted above contains some of the most idiotic, redneck bullshit I've come across on the Web. Thanks, I needed a good laugh! (But don't forget, these are the types of extreme morons we are up against.)

the prosecutor in the

the prosecutor in the moussaoui sentencing trial acted improperly with her emails to 6 witnesses, all of them FAA workers. now they are unable to testify. I think that all aviation testimony is out. how very convenient for the fairytale/cover-up!