Late Night Grab Bag and Open Thread

Time for another grab bag, if we missed anything post it in the comments. Just trying to catch up on the emails.

9/11 Truth On The Ron & Fez Show

The Week The USA Went Down The 911 Rabbit Hole

We always knew that one good news event exposing the official deception of 9/11 could be the catalyst to unravel the Big Lie. We didn't know there would be several news events in one week! Now we see what it looks like when the truth breaks loose.

9/11 Sword out of the Sheath - Tarpley interview with Andreas von Buelow - Press Release

(show archive - mp3 download)

Grassroots InfoMedia interviews Dr. James Fetzer 9/11 - mp3

WTC Planehugger Therapy - Top 30 FAQ

Class Is Now In Session

This Saturday night at 8pm. The topic will be "Foreknowledge Of The Event"

City Releases Tapes of 911 Calls From Sept. 11 Attack

Just before the south tower collapsed at 9:59 a.m., a spurt of calls reached the 911 operators. One of these was from Shimmy Biegeleisen, who worked for Fiduciary Trust in the south tower on computer systems. He was on the 97th floor where, by chance, an emergency drill had been scheduled for that day.

At 9/11 trial, tale of missteps and management

Three weeks of testimony and dozens of documents released in the sentencing of Zacarias Moussaoui have offered an eerie parallel view of two organizations, Al Qaeda and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and how they pursued their missions before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Al Qaeda, according to a newly revealed account from the chief plotter, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, took its time in choosing targets - attack the White House or perhaps a nuclear plant in Pennsylvania? Organizers sized up and selected operatives, teaching them how to apply for a visa and how to cut a throat, a skill they practiced on sheep and camels. Despite the mistakes of careless subordinates and an erratic boss, Osama bin Laden, Mr. Mohammed tried to keep the plot on course.

Off-topic: Flashpoints interviews Ray McGovern

Right, Moussaoui is going to

Right, Moussaoui is going to be executed for "hating America."

That plane hugger thing is

That plane hugger thing is stupid.

Did anyone cath the whole 58

Did anyone cath the whole 58 page report of phantom of the off Khalid Sheik Mohammed?

I trust that testimony. NOT!
But I want to read it, I like science fiction scripts.

Read Nico's facinating

Read Nico's facinating article, then check this out:

Keith Olbermann: Too soon to

Keith Olbermann:
Too soon to make movies about 9/11?

About that IHT

About that IHT article:

...chief plotter, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed...
...the scale of the destruction astonished even Mr. Mohammed. According to the summary, he said he "had no idea that the damage of the first attack would be as catastrophic as it was...

That sits well into the theory that a group of terrorists thought they were going to attack America, but other people hijacked their operation at some point, demolishing the buildings.

Regarding the Planehugger

Regarding the Planehugger article:

This is very interesting and think it should be looked into deeper. Perhaps someone with better english writing skills can rewrite all that information, as it does tend to be very difficult to follow. There are just too many scenarios and makes the reading difficult to understand.

Something hit the towers.

I don't recall any specific eyewitness testimony mentioning 767s. However, many people did report missiles. Also many reports of planes that did NOT look like 767s.

I see nothing in Nico's articles that suggests that holograms were painted on the NY skyline. (Although I have not read them thoroughly yet.)

The technology to create imagery live on TV definitely exists.

However..... I do agree that these theories need not be used when educating people on 9/11

Excerpt from the

Excerpt from the "Planehugger" link above:

"There have been many serious researchers questioning the official account of 9/11 in the Truth Movement such as Morgan Reynolds, who feel they have proven that a real, commercial jet was not used at the Pentagon explosions, nor were real passenger jets used at the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center. They make what they believe to be a credible case of inserted animation video (Computer-generated imagery)[2] [..] and therefore refer to those in the 9/11 Truth Movement who cling to the original 'official story' as huggers of planes or planehuggers since they embrace the aspect of the original story as delivered by the mass media of commercial jets being used to create the damage to the Pentagon and the Twin Towers and refuse to alter their thinking regardless of new analysis of evidence which proves that the original story was intentional disinformation![3]"

Since there is reasonable doubt that something other than AA77 hit the Pentagon, disinfo artists & fools want to promote a theory that cartoons were used at the WTC instead of real planes. (And Morgan Reynolds is into this?)

Seems like absurd bullshit to discredit the truth movement to me.

I read the Plane Hugger

I read the Plane Hugger link. I don't like the hostility he shows towards others, and his suggestion that Charlie Sheen agrees with his theories, where, much like MSM, he twists Sheen's "gut reaction" quotes into a full-blown theory. That said, he sounds more reasonable than he did on Tarpley's program.

I got from there over to a theory that the Naudet documentary was staged:
Very interesting and quite detailed. Not sure what to make of it yet.

As far as getting banned from forums, Killtown, I definitely don't think someone of your caliber in the research community should be banned from any forum. It is a tough question how new research and well-established theories ready for mainstream spread should intermingle. But nobody should be banned or called names for it.

Regarding Khalid Sheik

Regarding Khalid Sheik Mohammed, do we have any concrete reason to believe he actually said anything he's supposed to have said? No.

Re the Planehugger site - On the Lionel shows posted a few days ago (which are very good radio shows, very intelligent and informative) a flight attendant calls in and one of the things she says is that she was always surprised by how light the passenger loads were for transcontinental flights and that she'd never seen loads that light but here are 4 at a time. Lionel chimes in that any time he's been going somewhere and the load is that light, the airline finds a way to cancel the flight and put you on the next one.

At the time it happened, I remember hearing on TV that the passengers must have chosen those flights because those particular flights are always light. Is that really so? Do United and American regularly fly transcontinental flights with loads of 40, 60, 90 passengers? Why?

And if those plane loads aren't always that light, how would the hijackers know that on 9/11/01 they'd be that light? If it was essential to their plan that there be few passengers and they turned up at the airport and found one of the planes full, what would they do?

Oops, that should have been

Oops, that should have been that the "HIJACKERS" must have chosen those flights because they're always light, not "passengers."

FLASHBACK: NIST shill outs

FLASHBACK: NIST shill outs himself on mainstream physics board!

Moussaoui is a real

Moussaoui is a real showpiece for the "official story." They kept this ace-in-the-hole for 4.5 years, while they saw how things progressed with the official story. Now they play him with 20/20 hindsight to validate their version of things, and everyone falls for it.

In sensationalizing Moussaoui as al-Quseda personified, they say he should get the death penalty. (Since he really didn't do anything, it is for what he didn't do, like planning a crime he never committed and for not reporting the 9/11 plot to the authorities.)

Jon Gold, I've tried to get

Jon Gold,
I've tried to get you to answer this question before, but strangely, you haven't responded. As you are a very prominent voice on this board and others, I've noticed that you refer to a Jewish person as "the Jew", whether that person has ties to gov't complicity or is a celebrity in the entertainment industry.

Conversely, you do not refer researchers or iconoclasts like Jon Stewart and Keith Olberman as "the Jews." Granted, I haven't read all of your posts, but I've caught this several times. I wouldn't be surprised if any Jewish person you come across, even those working hard to expose 9/11 Truth, receive your snide designation.

So here's the question in short: do you differentiate neo cons and their agents inside the Israeli gov't with people of Jewish descent, as we would logically differentiate Evangelical neo cons in the US gov't from American citizens?

"do you differentiate neo

"do you differentiate neo cons and their agents inside the Israeli gov't with people of Jewish descent, as we would logically differentiate Evangelical neo cons in the US gov't from American citizens?"

Stickman... it is VERY rare you will see me refer to anyone as a "jew" so I don't know where you're coming from with this question.

I refer to myself as a "Jew". Because I am.

To answer your question, of course I differentiate between "jews" and criminals.

I have ALWAYS said that Israel is a country, and Judaism is a religion. If the Government of Israel has criminal elements within, that doesn't mean all jews are criminals. Just as there are evangelical neocon criminal elements within our Government, that doesn't mean all evangelical Christians are criminal.

Does that answer your question that I "strangely" didn't respond to?

I'm confused. Wasn't Jon's

I'm confused. Wasn't Jon's first post the one right above this one?

"I wouldn't be surprised if

"I wouldn't be surprised if any Jewish person you come across, even those working hard to expose 9/11 Truth, receive your snide designation."

And that statement is just a slanderous lie. NO ONE I address, be it someone who is jewish, muslim, christian, etc... are EVER referred to by me in a racist way.

Was there a point to this attempt at trying to paint me as "anti-semitic"?

As a matter of fact

As a matter of fact Stickman, I have a thread on my site specifically for this reason...

In it, I say, "Just wanted to help to make sure anti-semitism doesn't start to rise..."

Does that sound like someone who is "anti-semitic"?

Anything else you'd like me

Anything else you'd like me to "strangely" not answer?

Stickman, don't you have

Stickman, don't you have anything better to do than Jewish-bait Mr. Gold? Get lost.

i was think, doesnt this guy

i was think, doesnt this guy know jons a jew??? lol...

This article by Nico

This article by Nico Haupt
is pure delusion.

Freaky conclusiona that make
no sense whatsoever.

No planes, no planes!

This is a bit off topic but

This is a bit off topic but it took guts to do what this man did. Watch Bush when the man confronts him.

I just got a really crazy

I just got a really crazy idea. We should have a 9/11 Truth Concert.

We could easily get System of a Down. If you listen closely to the lyrics to that song, they're talking about how the media gets you to believe their hoaxes. I'm nearly positive they're on board with 9/11 Truth.

Eminem is also anti-Bush, and has produced a video with GNN, Mosh, that has graphics that Bush Knew.

Immortal Technique and that group from Loose Change could also perform.

Jimmy Walter could probably help finance it, and it could easily draw 30,000 or more young people. We could have screenings of different movies or some other types of promotions.

Just a crazy idea, but maybe I'll email Mr. Walter about it. What do you guys think?

I like him! (It's really not

I like him! (It's really not off topic on an open thread/grab bag.)

I think it's hysterical how

I think it's hysterical how someone (probably a shill) comes on to this site to try and portray me as an anti-semite. Is that the only weapon they have? Anti-semitism?

I believe that nations

I believe that nations organized around religous beliefs are a bad idea.

I believe Israel's policies make the world more dangerous for my children.

I don't believe in God. Why would I hate people just because they lack the courage to see the universe in all of it beauty and its cold dark horror.

Religous people invariably try to gain power/control so that they can over-come death by becoming gods themselves.

Daddy Bush sits on his throne, fishs in his boat while Bill kisses his ring.

This shit is as old as we are. Its pre-wired.

A concert to raise 911 Truth

A concert to raise 911 Truth awareness would be awesome. Way better than another symposium, although those were useful. I bet Greenday would be up for it. Public Enemy, of course...

Something like that could really generate a large crowd in a safe setting.
Take it easy on the Stick. He probably didn't know that Mr. Gold, "swings that way".
Lastly, anyone hear from George Washington lately? WRH linked to his blog 2 days ago. I'm curious what(if) his traffic spike was like. And shouldn't he have a link graphic?

Jey, manhattanite. Can't

Jey, manhattanite. Can't measure traffic on blogspot, but definitely got more than usual amount of comments.


Hey I plan on going to a

Hey I plan on going to a bunch of showings of United 93 and bringing flyers to handout about the truth, also printing a GIANT picture of the "plane" in Shanksville.

Does anyone have a link to a good 9/11 truth flyer?

Let me, and maybe if you don't mind could you email me at


George you can get a

George you can get a sitemeter

They'll insert the code automatically if you're a blogspot user.

Statcounter is another alternative.


you rock thank you!

you rock thank you!

"New FLIGHT 93

"New FLIGHT 93 handout:"

Thanks Ja... ehem... birdwatcher.


Professional: Thanks, I

Professional: Thanks, I guess I should move into the 21st century:)

gw: np Will anyone be

gw: np

Will anyone be attending Professor Jones' lecture today?

ALL, a flight 93 flyer is a

ALL, a flight 93 flyer is a great idea. Some folks at Scholars for 911 Truth and at were going to do one, but got too busy.

Go go go!

BTW, Hoffman has a good summary of evidence here:

Please let me know (at if anyone else comes up with flyers. If there is a really good, clean crisp one -- I'll pass it on.

Okay, I installed the

Okay, I installed the sitemeter. Thanks again, Professional.

'High-Profile 9/11 Expert

'High-Profile 9/11 Expert Guests Scheduled on Webster Tarpley's World Crisis Radio Show; Webster is Guest on Zeph Report 10:30 a.m. - 12 noon EDT Today

Whistleblowers David Shayler and Annie Machon, Prof. Jim Fetzer, author Thierry Meyssan, and activist Gabriel Day to speak on Tarpley's show.'

anybody find an archived

anybody find an archived copy or hear what Phil Berg had to say on Alan Colmes radio show the other day?


"Since there is reasonable

"Since there is reasonable doubt that something other than AA77 hit the Pentagon, disinfo artists & fools want to promote a theory that cartoons were used at the WTC instead of real planes. (And Morgan Reynolds is into this?)

Seems like absurd bullshit to discredit the truth movement to me."

i totally agree. IT's very suspicious to me when people do things like this. What purpose does it serve? The only effect i can see it having is creating a bigger rift/divide in the 911 truth movement. Shit like this, 911 in plane site (which is where if first heard of the pod missle conspiracy) and mike ruppert's jelously really bring down and discredit the entire movement.

rob, and

rob, and others:

Disclaimer does not seek to push any specific 'theories' about 9/11, but rather seeks to cover 9/11 related 'alternative' news. As such all readers should do their own research and develop their own opinions on the news and information covered.

Jon, Thanks for addressing

Thanks for addressing my question. I might have been hasty, and am glad to admit so.

This is the most recent example which caught my eye in the earlier thread about a beloved musician:

"You know... the "jew" singers.
Jon Gold | Homepage | 04.06.06 - 3:23 pm | #"

Perhaps you were being provocative, but I have to say Mossad, Likud, Straussian philosophy, Larry Silverstein, etc, unfortunately gets thrown into conspiratorial discussions of Zionist global domination.

As for baiting, I have one goal, as I presume many of us have, to research and expose the truth and dispense with the political and religious paragdigms, which only weaken the arguments for gov't complicity.

Research bears out that Israel played its role, as did ISI, M16, Saudi intel, etc.

I expect we would agree that the best arguments are clinical and scientific in nature. Physics is not politics, ideology, etc.

Disclaimers on the sidebar

Disclaimers on the sidebar are not enough for Haupt-caliber BS, I move that they be inserted after EVERY no-plane link.

'This issue is controversial and considered dubious by many, please be cautious in your research.'

Able, To many I should put


To many I should put such a warning after discussions of the pentagon, or controlled demolition, or flight 93 landing or being shot down, etc. etc. etc.

if we put labels like that only on specific posts then i end up receiving hateful comments from one side or another about being a 'gatekeeper', or a 'limited hangout', or from the other side that i am 'disinfo', or i 'promote nonsense', etc. etc. that is why this blog mostly stays agnostic in stating opinions and allows comments so that 9/11 researchers and activists can say what they think themselves..

also, along the same lines.. we covered the penn & teller 'bullshit' episode here.. it wasn't because we agreed with it, it was so that people would be aware.. this in turn probably generated a fair amount of complaints sent in as well as articles to be written with counter-arguements.. if you dont know about it, then you cant form an opinion, you cant respond, you cant ask questions, etc. etc.

"You know... the "jew"

"You know... the "jew" singers."

It's a shame you didn't post everything I said prior to that...

"If it was Barbara... that would be HUGE... My father would even jump on board. :D"

"Or Neil Diamond. :D"

"You know... the "jew" singers."

Seeing as how I'm jewish, that would probably mean that my father is jewish as well. My father is one of those "jews" who loves to listen to Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond.

Incidentally, it's ok for a "jew" to call another "jew"... "jew".

It's in the rulebook. However I try to refrain from speaking that way because I'm not a racist.

From the no-plane link: "a

From the no-plane link:

"a room disguised as an airplane"


"A deep research into the profile of the majority of these passengers"

Suspecting the victims is really gonna help 9-11 Truth, sure.

"Hollywood associations"

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

"This 'plane' could have flown to NYC, flying very low above 5th Avenue, continuing to fly and leaving the Manhattan area again, maybe also grounded or crashed into Fresh Kills."

Abuse of crack cocaine is bad for you, kids.

"Webster Tarpley"


"Mark Burnback"


"woman [...] who reported both about either a "plane without windows" or "not an american airline"."

She was far away from WTC.

" was debunked as a Cointelpro asset many months ago"

Not at all divisive or anything.

"Jim Fetzer, co-founder of the 911Scholars disagrees or ignores the [no-plane] findings so far."

This greatly improves my view of Fetzer, though I still think he's somewhat sloppy with facts.

"Fetzer first didn't want to talk about this, then changed his opinion into "inconclusive", then finally switched into a 'pod supporter'"

Well shit.

"There is no physical evidence that any plane hit the Towers."

Wreckage was found.

"Kyle Hence (9/11 Citizen's Watch), a former sailor"

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

"otherwise the whole world will turn into a cartoon and produce too many multiple and competing realities at the same time, also often called "augmented reality.""


"another unknown and silent missile formation [...] cloaked (invisible) missile"

oh for shit's sake

911blogger must post warnings next to links to BS such as this article.

Additionally, I propose that from now on no-planers be called "hauptlings".

"if we put labels like that

"if we put labels like that only on specific posts then i end up receiving hateful comments"

errr, too bad? The advancement of 9-11 Truth will at least at some point require making judgement calls even from sites that don't "push" any particular theories.

I'm only suggesting that the *most* controversial notions had some kind of warning.

I respect 911blogger but I think that linking to really bad info without comment is not good.

"I'm only suggesting that

"I'm only suggesting that the *most* controversial notions had some kind of warning.

I respect 911blogger but I think that linking to really bad info without comment is not good."

i entirely agree. 911 blogger has a reputation of remaining ambiguous (especially for the really whacko theories) but when i see stuff like plane hugging i realize how much work the 9/11 truth movement still has ahead of it. Spreading around and promoting stuff that is so far-out does nothing but hurt the 9/11 truth movement imo.

I agree with Able. Put a

I agree with Able. Put a disclaimer on that stuff. Who cares if you get hatemail from Nico? So does everyone else! Don't let the terrorists win!

I agree with the premise of

I agree with the premise of Nico's plane-hugging article, but not its content (some of which, to me, looks and smells like outright disinformation) nor its approach.

Trying to figure out and tell people what did hit the buildings means trying to advance one's own conspiracy theory, which is a fool's errand. (Though it can be amusing to watch various factions of the fake 911 truthers 'battle' each other, provided that one is not fooled by it...)

It is logically correct (and should be sufficient) to merely show that the government's claims are impossible, disproven, and discredited.



The slanting room cut away the
reference to the exercise:

if you cannot get the page try