carn, which is your favorite 9/11 truth movie or book?

Ministry - Lieslieslies
(unofficial lyrics)

“Gentlemen, we have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States Government”

“Do you still think that jet fuel brought down the World Trade Center?”

“Does anybody else see a problem here?”

“If the government has nothing to hide, then why are they so afraid to answer a few questions?”

“This story does not add up”

We’re on a mission to never forget
Three thousand people, that I’ve never met
We want some answers, and all that we get…
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Surprise surprise!

Lies Lies

We’re on a mission to dig up the truth
[?] and there’s no proof
But let me tell you that the time has come
To pull the trigger on the smoking gun

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Surprise surprise!

Lies Lies Lies Lies

Don’t listen to it, listen to your pain
Don’t listen to anything they say
Don’t listen

Lies Lies Lies Lies

“America has been hijacked, not by Al Qaeda, not by Bin Laden, but by a group of tyrants…that should be of great concern to all Americans.”

We’re on a mission to bring out the facts
You got your stories but they all have cracks
This information lies in deceit
What made you think we were all asleep?

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Surprise surprise!

Lies Lies Lies Lies

Don’t listen to it, listen to your pain
Don’t listen to anything they say
Don’t listen

Lies Lies Lies Lies

Regarding the missing $2.3 trillion announced by Rumsfeld on the eve of 9/11, you might be interested in reading three blogs, researched and written by me, entitled:

1) Cheney, the OODA Loop, and 9/11;

2) OODA, Rumsfeld, TIA, NSA;

3) Cybersecurity and the OODA Loop.

You can find them, in reverse order, at http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&... .

Very encouraging post, ahern29!

While that pdf contains numerous errors, he does a good job of pointing out the fact that Loose Change contains little more than flimsy arguments and speculation. I look forward to the movie that JG is hyping, as it sounds like it might be better in this regard.

Before Chris jumps all over me, I acknowledge that Loose Change has increased awareness of the movement. It's a shame it's so weak.

far from done. Anybody got any suggestions?

Foreknowledge
_______________

March 1999: Germany Provides CIA HijackerÂ’s Name and Telephone Number
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/24/politics/24TERR.html

August 12, 2000: Italian Intelligence Wiretap of al-Qaeda Cell Reveals Massive Aircraft-based Strike
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a081200italy

June 2001: Germans Warn of Plan to Use Aircraft as Missiles on US and Israeli Symbols
http://www.thememoryhole.org/faz-article.htm

June 4, 2001: Illegal Afghans Overheard Discussing New York City Hijacking Attack
http://web.archive.org/web/20010923042516/http://www.latimes.com/news/na...

Late Summer 2001: Jordan Warns US That Aircraft Will Be Used in Major Attack Inside the US
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=alatesummer01jordan

Late July 2001: Taliban Foreign Minister Tries to Warn US and UN of Huge Attack Inside the US
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=331115

Late July 2001: Egypt Warns CIA of 20 al-Qaeda Operatives in US; Four Training to Fly; CIA Is Not Interested
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/09/eveningnews/main525012.shtml

August 2001: Russia Warns US of Suicide Pilots
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_ti...

Early August 2001: Britain Warns US Again; Specifies Multiple Airplane Hijackings
http://www.sundayherald.com/24822

August 23, 2001: Mossad Reportedly Gives CIA List of Terrorist Living in US; at Least Four 9/11 Hijackers Named
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=215843&contra...

Before September 11, 2001: Three Countries Hear bin Laden Tell Wife to Return to Afghanistan; This Warning Sets Off ‘Scramble’ in US and Elsewhere
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=abefore911threecount...

September 4, 2001: Mossad Gives Another Warning of Major, Imminent Attack
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a090401mossad

September 7, 2001: Priest Is Told of Plot to Attack US and Britain Using Hijacked Airplanes
http://zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=9943

September 7, 2001: French Give ‘Very Specific Information’ about Possible Attack on US Soil
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a090701frenchwarn

Early September 2001: Sharp Increase in Short Selling of American and United Airlines Stocks
http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2001-09-26-suspicious-trading.htm

Early September 2001: Almost Irrefutable Proof of Insider Trading in Germany
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34910,00.html
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/woil23.xml
http://web.archive.org/web/20011030000143/www.miami.com/herald/special/n...

September 6-10, 2001: Suspicious Trading of Put Option Contracts on American and United Airlines Occur
http://web.archive.org/web/20020215082158/http://cjonline.com/stories/09...

September 11, 2001: More Than $100 Million Rushed from WTC
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_ti...

FEMA in place on September 10th for drill in lower manhattan.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#fema

Hijackers
__________

Muslim extremist, Mohamed Atta, apparently has american girlfriend, drinks alcohol and snorts coke:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7746174590105525480&q=Mohamed+A...

January-May 2000: CIA Has Atta Under Surveillance
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_ti...

MSNBC archive: hijackers trained at US bases?:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ alle...d_us_bases.html

MSNBC: Osama a former CIA asset:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp

Two 9/11 hijackers lived with FBI informant:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/ 2...ain521223.shtml

Top FBI agents told to back off from investigating al Qaeda hijackers months before 9/11
http://www.laweekly.com/news/new...e-whistle/3706/

FBI agents say government is protecting terrorists, covering up 9/11:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/2469.shtml

August 24-29, 2001: Hijackers Buy 9/11 Plane Tickets Using Their Apparent Real Names
http://web.archive.org/web/20010922164519/www.miami.com/herald/special/n...

CIA 'had 9/11 hijacker details'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3516233.stm

Obstruction of Justice
____________________----

September 2000: Military Lawyers Prevent Able Danger From Sharing Information about Atta and Others with FBI
http://www.gsnmagazine.com/aug_05/dod_lawyers.html

Able Danger, 2.5 terabytes ordered destroyed.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9342936/

September 2000: Chart With Mohamed AttaÂ’s Photo Presented by Able Danger at SOCOM Headquarters; Meetings With FBI Cancelled
http://www.gsnmagazine.com/sep_05/shaffer_interview.html

US agents told to back off bin Ladens
http://prisonplanet.com/us_agents_told_to_backoff.html

FBI agents told to "back off" from investigating al Qaeda months before
9/11: http://www.guardian.co.uk/ Archiv...4293682,00.html

FBI agent goes to her superiors with documents from pre 9/11 that al Qaeda was going to strike with hijacked airlines:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...1- 2004Apr8.html

FBI agent blocked by higher ups on uncovering plot:
http://www.latimes.com/news/prin...lines- frontpage

Top FBI agents told to back off from investigating al Qaeda hijackers months before 9/11
http://www.laweekly.com/news/new...e-whistle/3706/

FBI agents drop 9/11 bombshell:
http://www.time.com/time/covers/...20603/ memo.html

FBI agent robert wright warned the WTC was going to be attacked soon based on evidence field agents found, and that a terrorist attack was imminent, but he was told to shut up:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/...30/ 161204.shtml

FBI agents say government is protecting terrorists, covering up 9/11:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/2469.shtml

US allowed top al Qaeda and Taliban flee to safety:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.c...? artid=38382324

FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0510,webmondo2,61790,6.html

FBI whistleblower Colleen Rowley "bombshell" memo
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html

FBI whistleblower Robert G. Wright
http://www.prisonplanet.com/another_fbi_agent_blows_the_whistle_on_911.htm

Money Trail
__________---

"Money man" Pakistan ISI general Mahmoud Ahmad,meets with George Tenet, then head of the CIA plus others. DAYS before 9/11.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1266520,00.html

Pakistan Lobbies 9/11 Commission
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060313/asp/nation/story_5962372.asp

"Coincidences"
_______________

40-year-old FAA rule that allowed Armed Pilots inexplicably rescinded two months before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/armed_pilots_banned_2_months_before_911.htm

September 10, 2001 Donald Rumsfeld announces that the Pentagon has lost track of $2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS of military spending.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

Bush Senior and Bin Ladens Brother attend Carlyle Group meeting at Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Washington, On 9/11.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/041203metwithbinladen.html

May 2001: Medics Train for Airplane Hitting Pentagon
http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=272&issueID=31

June 16, 2001: Major Simulated Terrorist Attack Exercise is Held in Pennsylvania (near flight 93 crash site)
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_90895.html

Early August 2001: Mass Casualty Exercise at the Pentagon Includes a Plane Hitting the Building
http://www.peterson.af.mil/hqafspc/News/News_Asp/nws_tmp.asp?storyid=02-214

Before September 11, 2001: US Government simulated terrorist attacks involving Multiple-Planes
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

Before September 11, 2001: NORAD Plans a Mock Simultaneous Hijacking Threat from Inside the US "Delta pilots and actors posing as passengers"
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0206/04/lt.08.html

All of the five alleged Flight 77 hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2033791...

September 10, 2001 Donald Rumsfeld announces that the Pentagon has lost track of $2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS of military spending.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/ 2...ain325985.shtml

it still amazes me that this has been forgotten or in most cases never even known by 99% of the people i talk to. thats more than a quarter of our national deficit...lost.

My fellow Citizens for 9/11 Truth,

We had another breakthrough day for the movement. 9/11 truth was covered by both USA Today and CNN in one 24 hour period. What this shows is how much the movement has grown. It also indicates that people in high places are trembling at what we say. So now they send their media lynch-mobs to do hit pieces against our cause.

The truth movement has grown because so many courageous Americans put their reputations on the line. We have stood up for something that has been labeled Un-American, by our government, media and society as a whole. We have been called Conspiracy Theorist, Conspiracy Nuts, Nut Jobs, Con-Artists along with many other undesirable labels. But through it all we have endured.

And now a significant part of our country knows the truth of 9/11. That means the Main Stream Media; along with the powers that be, can no longer afford to ignore our efforts. The Media are threatened by this movement because we are interfering with their ability to dictate reality to the American public. These corporate media powerhouses have shown themselves complicit in the cover-up of the crime of the century. And having no shame of their criminal activities, these liars continue to distort the news.

Since they no longer can publicly ignore us, the elite are attempting to smear the 9/11 Truth Movement instead. They want to marginalize our efforts to the tabloid news, hoping that the public wonÂ’t take the facts of 9/11 seriously. They do this by focusing solely on the peripheral details of 9/11 that are widely debated within the movement over the internet. For example; pods being under the aircrafts that hit the trade centers. Issues such as these are difficult to prove. But at the same time; the media choose to ignore the more obvious inconsistencies such as WTC 7. But this desperate attempt at distorting the truth will not work for long.

America already knows that itÂ’s being lied to by the government and mass media. Because of issues like Iraq, Weapons of Mass Destructions, warrantless wire tapping, and the mistreating of prisoners at Abu Graeb, along with so many other misdeeds; America no longer trust itÂ’s public officials. And current polls indicate that Americans are concerned about the direction the country is heading. They are also fed-up of the policies of the current administration. Even worse is the congress who has been unresponsive to the demands of its citizens of taking this present administration to task over its policies. The citizens of this country feel that the government is not serving their interests.

The America citizens have (to use a biblical term) itching ears, meaning they are ready to hear the truth. In light of all of this, we have no better opportunity to get the truth out to an accepting public. The ground is now more fertile than its ever going to be. So it is my encouragement to the truth movement, to be even more vigilant in standing up for the truth. Lets not be discouraged by the negative publicity, because those are coming whether we deserve them or not. But lets continue to be committed to the grassroots efforts that has gotten us to this point.

Yes, using mass media can get our message out to the public much faster. But, as we saw yesterday, their desire is not the same as ours. So we should not look to them to help our cause. Yet, take whatever exposure we get and use it to our advantage. Lets continue talking about the facts of 9/11 to friends and strangers alike. Keep handing out pamphletÂ’s, and DVDÂ’s, and showing screenings. Challenge people who believe the official version with the actual facts.

If we keep this up, WE CANNOT LOSE!!! And eventually those who committed this heinous crime will be brought to justice. Keep up the good work!!!

^^^^im so sick of this type of crap... a lot of americans think that they saw the plane hit the pentagon... my mother in law the other day said that she had seen the plane hit the pentagon on tv...
inside | 05.02.06 - 12:09 pm | #

I know there was no video of it. Well, other than confiscated surveillance tapes and Pentagon tapes. But that's part of the problem in investigating it. So are the witnesses, who almost all have connections to the government.

It's a real weak point in proving anything about it to anyone. All they need is a few people contradicting anyone who said they saw anything else, and they've muddied the waters enough that it's incredibly difficult to prove anything.

The other problem is that all hit pieces focus almost exclusively on the Pentagon missile theories. To the extent that strong, strong evidence of controlled demolition of the WTC doesn't get out. If you include everything (like L2CE) they *will* attack your weakest point, to the exclusion of anything else you said.

I don't doubt that something may have happened differently at the Pentagon. But I don't know how you're going to prove it. I don't suggest that anyone stops investigating the Pentagon. It may be worth your time. But recently I've decided that if that topic gets all the coverage, we're not going to convince very many people of anything.

At this point, with the evidence for and against a Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, my doubts about the Pentagon completely rest on whether WTC was demolished, and whether NORAD stood down.

Yes, benthere. Many disinfo artists snicker something like, "Yah, and those kooks even think a cruise missile hit the Pentagon, blah, blah, blah."

This looks very bad to newbies.

One of the resident trolls linked to the PDF in an earlier thread. I'd like to refute a lot of it, if I had the contact info. It's unusual to see attacks pieces that thorough, even if the style is of the common enraged variety.

"Able, it looks like there is also a lot of Loose Change 2 bashing going on lately. This may also be part of a setup to weaken 9/11 truth."

So, what, it would be better to heap uncritical praise at L/C and then watch it get shot down in flames in the MSM? It's better to brace for any impact that might come.

*****

ahern29, nice job

*****

"Christian supremacist/militia camp to which Alex Jones belongs ... hunting rifle might stave off a fascist takeover ... oppresses the many in the service of the few ... whiny white men ..."

Hey timbermonkey, how's business at Air America then? Not real good I hope?

"laws against hate speech"

It's so very encouraging to see someone advocate criminalizing thought in a 9/11 truth forum.

"fantasies about fending off the gay ZOG aliens with your Glock"

Perhaps you will now point to where Jones says something like that. No? Aww.

And Chris, opposing eg. abortion does not make one a fundamentalist, no matter what your liberal indoctrination says.

http://www.rense.com/general70/3o.htm
"Jon Carlson"
"Jack White"

So much for that link.

And Chris, opposing eg. abortion does not make one a fundamentalist, no matter what your liberal indoctrination says.
Able | 05.02.06 - 4:03 pm | #
HAHAHAHA, because abortion was the only thing i mentioned when i said that right you conservative puppet? read my whole statement please.

oh im sorry, i didnt know you felt the same way about zygotes as the rest of the zealots.my fault.

Opposing stem cell research doesn't necessarily make one a fundie, either. Nor does opposing the things I presume you mean by "anti gay", ie. hate speech legislation.

Of course, you could correct me by pointing out where Jones says, for instance, that gays need electroshocks. I doubt that will happen.

Able--

Air America has plenty of flaws, esp. from my left-libertarian perspective, and I've bitched about them and to them more than once. But for the most part their heart is in the right place, as opposed to the bigots and spoiled, bloated white men and shrieking bimbos who populate "conservative" talk radio.

It's so very encouraging to see someone advocate criminalizing thought in a 9/11 truth forum.

I'm not advocating criminalizing thought. Think whatever you want. I'm arguing that hate speech is a restriction of the target's civil rights and a violation of their rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" that serves no purpose except to impose control on them by the person or group using that SPEECH (not thought) against them, especially in the workplace.

"fantasies about fending off the gay ZOG aliens with your Glock"

Perhaps you will now point to where Jones says something like that. No? Aww.

Able, you're not the first wingnut I've argued with. I was using a colorful exaggeration to make a point, which is that right-wing militia types and their like argue that their personal firearms are the only thing standing between good Christian society and some evil alien force personified in the "New World Order," Satanists, or some other boogeyman. Most of them carefully avoid admitting to themselves that it's other white right-wingers that are really screwing them over. And I stand by my ridicule of Jones' obsession with the "Occult Elite."

I agree Jones focuses way too much on the "illuminati" shit(it does spice things up tho, I mean hour 3 of martial law 9/11 was intense in an eyes wide shut sort of way)

And yeah, his anti gay, anti abortion, anti Mexicna immigrant,
fundamentalist Christian stance bugs me...BUT he is NO racist, and no millitia type. Hes gone out of his way to expose corruption and injustice around the world...be it China's organ harvesting, ISrael's radiation of children, or our own US government.
He also speaks out on racist Mexican movements, and has totlaly ripped neo nazis a new one at rallys. Hes a hero, and something that corporate lard Moore could only hope to be.

"left-libertarian"

Vaguely scary concept, that.

"I was using a colorful exaggeration"

...that went too far. I use tactical exaggeration myself, of course, but I can't see what relevance 'ZOG' and '(space?) aliens' have with Jones. (I agree his occult focus is dumb.)

I don't think I'll be defending him any more, though, he can defend himself well enough. :o

watch out pocky, Able got pretty offended when i said Alex Jones views on social issues were fundamentalist.

Guys, after we break open 9/11 truth, we can still debate these other issues.

stem cell research is NOT abortion, regardless of what your local zealots say.(Able, you really think a cell you cant see with the naked eye that could potentially help in various medical fields has as much rights as you and i?) opposing it is opposing science, but republicans are pretty good at that.Alex Jones is a bit of a homophobe, his republican shines through when it comes to religious and social issues.

i mean, not to make this a bash Alex Jones thread, because i promote the guys site constantly and have bought many of his DVD's, but hes on par with Tom Cruise when it comes to depression for instance, and he had Terry Schiavos dad on his show yesterday.he needs to stop with the social shit, seriously.

stem cell research and gay marriage are the litmus tests in identifying religious fundies. how can you be against science? why on earth would you care if 2 consenting adults get married regardless of what they do in thier bedroom?

"he needs to stop with the social shit"

Kinda like everyone on this board?

whats wrong Able? you a republican? its cool if you are, im just wondering why it would bother you so much.

Just to not let this go unchallenged: Chris, Alex Jones is not a homophobe.

Please backup that statement with a citation of a single actual statement that he has made that suggests to you that he is a homophobe.

OR, stop making statements about Alex Jones that are unfounded and offtopic.

hes against gay marriage right? that seems pretty damned homophobic to me.why the fuck would a grown man care what 2 consenting adults do with thier lives? as if 2 women or 2 men getting married is going to change his life in any way. thats homophobic to me.my point is and was, i love what Alex Jones has done for exposing crimes within our government. he should stick to that.having Terry Schiavos dad on his show is bullshit to me.it was sad when the government got involved in personal lives(i thought republicans hated that too?)and its sad when Alex Jones drags the dad on to further pry into personal lives.sorry to point out your heros flaws. i like Alex Jones too, that doesnt mean hes above criticism.

Everyone's above criticisim without facts, including Alex Jones.

You still haven't cited sources upon which you base your opinions of him.

you know what man, i dont have all of Alex Jones radio shows on tape. hes got literally thousands of hours of audio on file so i dont think im gonna be able to provide you with proof that Alex Jones is against gay marriage.jesus christ.i was just making a point, if you dont believe me, maybe you wanna comb through the thousands of hours of audio yourself.is it really so hard to believe that Alex Jones, an admitted former "hardcore repubican" would be homophobic? let me state again, I LOVE WHAT ALEX JONES HAS DONE. for the most part. the whole point of my comments was that he should back off of the religious/social shit.it drags his website/radio show down in my opinion.

hi Allie.

hi chris.