Dr. Steven Jones - Views on Science and Faith
Views on Science and Faith
Dr. Steven Jones - May17, 2007
The modern scientific method allows us to ask questions and get answers quite independent of the religious views we individually espouse. The key is repeatability, that is, an agnostic will get the same result in valid scientific measurements as will a believer in God – one's personal beliefs will not affect the outcome of repeatable experiments. Accordingly, ad hominem arguments that a person believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ (for example) and so he is to be ignored -- are not valid arguments against the person's scientific research.
To denigrate a scientist's research because of his personal beliefs is therefore considered very bad form in the scientific community.
Newton and Einstein are among many top scientists who have believed in God. Biology Prof. Kenneth R. Miller states: "Science is the best method we have, the only method we have to understand the nature of the material world, how it works, what the history of this planet has been like. And what religion tells us is the meaning of our place in that world. It's different sides of the same coin.'' (Biology professor at Brown University and author of Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution.)
For the record: I have never espoused the notion that the earth was created out of nothing 6,000 years ago. (I do accept the experimentally-established Law of Conservation of Mass-energy.) I have stated it is possible that voyagers from the Mediterranean region sailed to the Americas long before Columbus. This could account for similarities in the art of the two cultures (including hand-markings).
I spoke at an archaeology conference in May 2005 presenting evidence for travels to the Americas from China and the Middle East/Africa. Parallels in art work and writing, pyramid-architecture and tumbaga usage all point to early contact. Such pre-Columbian contact is gaining acceptance as more evidence emerges.
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The mormon stuff does worry
The mormon stuff does worry me a little. I find religion to be just another scam to control the people. It reminds me of the 9/11 official story. People believe it on faith not facts or science. I still think Steve Jones and Dr. Griffin have done great work though. science is science.
This seems rather mean
This seems rather mean spirited. Religion is a very personal thing and totally independent of ones ability to do a profesional unbiased job. You can't call someone stupid because they believe some things on faith. The Founding Fathers did an outstanding job with our Constitution (Despite? Or Because of?) their faith. Many of them were very religious, yet understood that it was important to protect people of all religions rather than force everyone to Christianity, or atheist for that matter.
Mormonism is not the issue...
The concern here is not about Mormonism, freedom of religion, or the ability of a person to be both full of faith and capable of following the scientific method.
The issue is this: does one of the 911 truth movement's most prominent researchers have a propensity for researching dubious claims and bolstering them with a veneer of science. I surely hope not, as Jones has been a tremendously effective and appealing promoter of the notion of controlled demolition.
That said, it is concerning, that Jones' past includes equally contentious claims about archaeology, especially considering their explicitly religious implications. I'm not suggesting there isn't more than one contentious issue besides 911 in the world, but usually people only take on one of them at a time if not one of them in a lifetime. Is this a hobby for Jones? More practically, will the entire movement be hindered by similar accusations against him? Or... can we continue to follow the compelling research of this scientist and yes, mormon.
-"Johnny"
How about we trust scientific
evidence and the laws of physics, and fuckall whats got to do with religion, OK?
this shit is stupid.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
You're acting like having faith is a crime man!
And you're painting a poor picture of us in Vancouver. Please, just stop with these hateful attacks, you sound like a troll! These people have done incredible work for the 9/11 truth movement, why can't you just take their religion in stride?
Mormons and Morons
I'll say this as politely as possible: At least Mormons don’t believe in TV fakery and space beams.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/truth911/truth911/anomalies3.htm
http://www.members.shaw.ca/truth911/truth911/anomalies.htm
See, it’s not nice to judge people based on what they believe. Show some class.
Yea and "Holograms hit the
Yea and "Holograms hit the Towers";
truth911.net: "i'm kinda leaning towards the hologram theory. it certainly must still be considered a possibility. it looks like that footage started just as the hologram was created. in that video i posted above, you can see the hologram being created, since it just all of a sudden appears. i would be willing to bet that there will be no other legitimate footage of a wider angle shot of that plane. the video posted in this thread, is probably the widest shot that exists. i've always found it strange that no wide angle shots exist. It was such a clear day that there should be more video of the plane on its approach. the holigram only existed for approximately 10sec, and there is no video that i'm aware of that shows the hologram plane for longer than 10sec."
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=9241&...
Frankly "truth911.net" has aligned himself with the pushers of absurdity and disinformation to such an extent that he's just got no credibility left, it’s looking more and more intentional and shill like.
Holmgren:
His favorite charge is "plagiarism".
Obviously he is not familiar with the concept of source referencing--standard in academic articles. His claims of "plagiarism" are laughably disingenuous.
Here's what I think.
Michael Rivero is an atheist. Alex Jones is religious. Steve Bhaerman is a yogi. Rabbi Lerner is Jewish, Sloane Coffin was Christian, David Ray Griffin and Bob Bowman are Christian. Kevin Barret is a muslim. Joanna Macy is Buddhist. Celestine Star (who produced a prominent 9/11 movie) appreciates native american beliefs.
SO WHAT??? Those are their personal beliefs. They are all promoting 9/11 truth. THAT's what counts.
I am sure there are sufis for 9/11 truth, and pagans for 9/11 truth, and wiccans for 9/11 truth, and sikhs for 9/11 truth, and hindus for 9/11 truth.
About 50% of scientist are atheists and about 50% are religious. SO WHAT? People's ability to think straight and reason in their field of endeavor and their personal beliefs are different things.
I believe that -- in some ways -- religion versus atheism is the same false split as conservative versus liberal, and that people that promote this split are harming the country.
Just as many people are waking up to the fact that the powers-that-be have created a false left-right schism, and that in fact we ALL agree on things like truth and freedom from false flag manipulation, we must wake up to the fact that atheists that attack 9/11 activists who are religious or religious people who attack 9/11 activists who are atheists are causing UNNECESSARY disruption.
Indeed, while atheists believe that religious people are silly, quantum physicists could attack the beliefs of atheists who believe in a Newtonian world-view as silly.
Its like the story of the 3 blind men who all feel an elephant with their hands, and then get in an argument when the one who feels a leg insists "its a tree" and the one who feels the belly insists its a sandstone boulder and the one that feels its talk insists its a giant snake. Isn't it possible that atheists and religious folks are experiencing different parts of the big picture and describing different things? Stop being like the silly blind men!
The bottom line is we should all stop disrupting the forward momentum of the 9/11 truth and justice movement by pulling Karl-Rove-like attacks on people's character. Instead, focus on whether or not what they say and write about 9/11 makes sense.
Let me make one last point directly to the atheists. Let's say, hypothetically, that you are correct and that there is no God. Given that only 5% of Americans are atheists, you will alienate 95% of the population by criticizing religion. Will that help you to be an effective 9/11 truth and justice activist? No, it will mean that you are assured that you will alienate most people, and so 9/11 truth will never hit critical mass, and the 9/11 perpetrators will go free. In other words, on a strictly practical level, dissing religious people will make you a very ineffective 9/11 truth activist.
So I suggest everyone just drop fighting about religious beliefs, and respect that EVERYONE -- religious, spiritual or atheist -- has a right to his or her own views.
My 2 cents...
Exactly GW
Stop doing the enemy's work for them and give your heads a shake. Personal attacks like what we see in this thread are disrespectful and do the movement no favors.
Focus on the message, not the messenger. That's the lazy kind of hate the MSM has used (also unsuccessfully) against us.
Further,
Atheism is no less based upon belief or faith than is theism. Neither position is provable within the realm of empirical science. Each religion includes many faith-based beliefs that are no more and no less 'valid' than any other. Every person who slimes Mormonism for its absurdities simply hasn't studied the philosophy of religion to learn that each religion incorporates absurdities. Older sets of beliefs have simply become well-entrenched in the culture and are accepted thereby. Frankly, anybody who derogates Jones for his Mormonism is simply a bigot. And I have no use for bigots.
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"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." (Goethe)
My two cents...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
This is America isn't it?
It's Not The Crime That Kills You, But The Cover-Up
My two cents
We are after criminals and I don’t care what robes they wear.
Christian Muslim or Jew you all taste the same in a stew
As long as
you throw in enough pepper..... ;-)
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"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." (Goethe)
Please stop
You sound like a bigot.
And I don't think he is a savior.