It seems sort of obvious now that the use of torture, by those who probably perpetrated 911, is to get false confessions from people who had nothing to do with it. It seems to merely be a way for the real perpetrators to generate additional patsies as needed.
I would be willing to bet that anyone who is promoting the use of torture of so-called enemy combatants probably has a criminal connection to the events of Sept. 11, 2001.
They let all the real Al Kidas go because they work for the western intelligence agencies and tortured the goat herders into confessing.
In the news today, Women suicide bombers in Iraq . . . how easy would it be to hire a woman to deliver a package in a place where people are starving and then remote control detonate. I have no proof but all of a sudden there are suicide bombers in Iraq, Pakistan and India.
I have said this about suicide bombers since this war started. How would anyone know if it was not a suicide attack. It is exactly what we are told and that's all we know.
Plant a bomb in a market.... wait till there is someone near it... remotely blow it.... BOOM! ... suicide bomber.... easy.... the war goes on. This is the Blackwater war. This is the chaos creator.
This instills the fear and hatred of these people in the minds of American people because they can not handle the thought of the random nature of this type of attack. They can not imagine this type of warfare on our streets. It has an overwhelming psychological effect while accomplishing more than one goal.
Yet there has not been a single attack here in the US since 911. These people are so good and well trained at making bombs yet not one has gone off here. These people are so hell bent on killing Americans yet they have not killed any since 911. Not one car bomb. No random killing. No suicide attacks. NOTHING?
Is this not suspicious to anyone? Our intelligence agencies and police are not this good. Sorry but it is impossible. If they had people here that wanted to hurt thousands of people there is no way we could stop them.... yet nothing. It's the biggest joke.
I ask people this. We have open borders. Our country is full of Muslims and people of Middle Eastern descent. Thousands of people hate our government. Bomb making materials are readily available. Do you not find it strangely bizarre that there has not been one attack here on this soil since 911? Do you really think that our intelligence agencies have that type of grasp on the welfare of innocent people and could possibly stop random acts of violence?
The only threat to the American way of life is coming from the people taking our freedoms from us.
___________________
Together in Truth!
That is exactly why the Bush administration uses torture. It seems to me that the truth and the whole truth about 9/11 is starting to catch up with the September criminals. The law of karma is as constant as the law of gravity. In my day we had a saying, "What goes around comes around." That still holds true. There are no free lunches!.................."Down with the NWO".
It kind of looks like things are so bad that most people are not believing the old propaganda and the white wash doesn't quite cover, so it seems beige washing is now taking it's place.
In other words the MSM is admitting to some things to save their own face.
Anyone who *orders* torture must have some degree of psychopathic personality disorder, at the least, especially in the knowledge that torture produces garbage "intelligence". Torture is fundamentally against any principles of civilized human conduct. Those who *execute* methods of torture would, of course, benefit from having a psychopathic kind of personality, but the consequences of disobeying orders is likely to be considered more important than any moral issues raised by torturing people; in the military, shit rolls downhill, (aka chain of command).
There are people in very senior positions in this administration who exhibit psychopathic traits. Furthermore, when many of the neoconservatives within (and associated with) the Bush Administration have a blatant track record of hatred and phobia towards arabs and muslims, and that a principle aim of the neoconservatives within this administration is to demonize the muslim community worldwide..... it's hardly surprising that torture would be part of their M.O. They probably even derive pleasure from the knowledge that they have the power and motivation to inflict great pain from the comfort of their offices and executive suites.
CHENEY, BUSH, RICE, GONZALES, ADDINGTON, YOO, RUMSFELD, CIA, BLACKWATER AND MANY OTHERS COMMITTED WAR CRIMES. THERE SHOULD BE WAR CRIMES TRIALS FOR ALL OF THEM.
This is without regard for the murderous crimes on 9/11/2001. Some of the same players are guilty of committing that precipitous crime. Of course there are many others on that list.
The torture was to get false confessions. This was to provide cover for the true perpetrators of 911.
The Gitmo trials are a continuation of the cover up.
See Jane talk, see Dave listen. See Dave talk, watch Jane listen. See Dave lie, watch Jane talk. Dave is scared. Jane is worried. Dave is worried. Jane is smart. Dave is wrong. Jane is brave. Dave is not as brave as Jane.
This book is industrial-strength damage control. The message in essence is this: "Yes, Cheney, Rummy and the boys authorized torture. Yes, technically they committed war crimes. But they were half-crazy with fear and righteous anger after 9/11 and they were desperately trying to protect the American people by any means necessary." The fact that torture produces only false confessions and terror of course belies this premise and should create dissonance in the mind of the reader. But the cosmetic excuse will suffice for most.
The War Machine practically boasts about its willingness to torture. At first I was amazed by their audacity, then I realized intimidation is their game. The intended audience is ourselves in the 9/11 Truth movement, among others. Their enormous lies are defended by expert media tacticians who regularly use limited hangouts (like this interview) combined with news accounts of torture policies approved at the highest level to scare us into submission. Anthrax worked just fine for Congress in the aftermath of 9/11. Does anyone know what the real dynamics are of how Congress is currently controlled? I'm curious to know all the ways the Lie is being held up. As Peter Jennings said, "Everybody knows...You must get at the under infrastructure..." We need to get at the under infrastructure as well.
I believe we are closer than we think.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Early in his career Dave was very liberal. Then he started making big bucks and he got real conservative for quite awhile. Now he seems to be returning to his liberal roots. It might be because he has a child now.
But it's nice to see. It always warms my heart and soul when I see a person over the age of 60 who is (still) liberal. (-ish)
The false paradigm is what they want us fighting for.
Why not join together and fight for true freedom and liberty?
What's scary to me is when she said "proper to me is obeying the law". How in the world is obeying the law proper? This is why we're so screwed. Obeying the law and paying taxes that go towards mass murder is proper? Obeying the law and allowing government thugs to steal money from us at the point of a gun is proper?
The "law" made the Federal Reserve possible, now they are sinking us into the 2nd Great Depression. Is this "proper"?
The constitution is a nice idea but it did not stop our government from turning into a fascist/socialist authoritarian empire.
Government is simply violent force and is the root cause here. People like this woman just think that if we had the "right" people controlling the violence that everything would be superb. We need to think deeper about the root issues here, that the State itself, the concept of giving a bunch of people a bunch of guns is the root, and not who broke what "law" or some nonsense about an "illegal" war. War is simply mass murder with uniforms on.
Let's define things as they are and we can move this discussion about truth forward.
You are SO negative. The viewpoints you put forth are myopic and aberrant in the extreme. (and it is, in part, about liberal vs. conservative (and other related issues) — that is NOT a false paradigm, except in some non-reality fantasy land that has little bearing on much of anything)
One of the founding principals of the U.S. of A. (perhaps the primary one) is the Rule of Law.
"Law", like most other things of that nature, including anarchy, is an ideal. And like all ideals, we often fall short. But that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. It's accepted as common sense that we will fall short of the ideal, and yet we continue to attempt to attain the ideal, none the less.
Human beings are fallible. We don't always do the right thing or make the right decision and sometimes allow external forces of all kinds to negatively and unduly affect us — in our thinking and opinions and viewpoints and feelings and behaviors and actions. Again, common sense, and a known and accepted part of the equation.
However, there are those of us who try very hard to do the right thing most of the time, and part of that is pointing out the bad laws that slip through and attempting to get them repealed. (or not get passed at all in the first place) That's why we have the system we do. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than most other systems throughout the ages and around today in most other countries.
Your comment of "the constitution is a nice idea" is one of the most idiotic things I've read lately. And that saying something.
Here's a clue: YOU (and those like you) are part of the problem.
bullies = cowards
Cheney wanted torture so badly that lawyers who did not want to go along with it "felt like they might be kind of weirdly in physical danger."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DstuXsPKqeU#
Now Dick is so paranoid he fears disabled veterans. (If the CNN pic of Kucinich is fair, so is this one.)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/07/27/2008-07-27_injured_v...
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
Good interview by Dave
And the answer is... "Yes, the Bush Administration is guilty of War Crimes and should be prosecuted."
There was a hint of electricity in the air!
That was great.
The use of torture can only be to get false confessions
It seems sort of obvious now that the use of torture, by those who probably perpetrated 911, is to get false confessions from people who had nothing to do with it. It seems to merely be a way for the real perpetrators to generate additional patsies as needed.
I would be willing to bet that anyone who is promoting the use of torture of so-called enemy combatants probably has a criminal connection to the events of Sept. 11, 2001.
They needed terrorists for their war on terror
They let all the real Al Kidas go because they work for the western intelligence agencies and tortured the goat herders into confessing.
In the news today, Women suicide bombers in Iraq . . . how easy would it be to hire a woman to deliver a package in a place where people are starving and then remote control detonate. I have no proof but all of a sudden there are suicide bombers in Iraq, Pakistan and India.
Jane Mayer was on Air America's Ring of Fire this past Saturday . . . I posted it:
http://www.radiodujour.com/people/mayer_jane
makes me wonder
I have said this about suicide bombers since this war started. How would anyone know if it was not a suicide attack. It is exactly what we are told and that's all we know.
Plant a bomb in a market.... wait till there is someone near it... remotely blow it.... BOOM! ... suicide bomber.... easy.... the war goes on. This is the Blackwater war. This is the chaos creator.
This instills the fear and hatred of these people in the minds of American people because they can not handle the thought of the random nature of this type of attack. They can not imagine this type of warfare on our streets. It has an overwhelming psychological effect while accomplishing more than one goal.
Yet there has not been a single attack here in the US since 911. These people are so good and well trained at making bombs yet not one has gone off here. These people are so hell bent on killing Americans yet they have not killed any since 911. Not one car bomb. No random killing. No suicide attacks. NOTHING?
Is this not suspicious to anyone? Our intelligence agencies and police are not this good. Sorry but it is impossible. If they had people here that wanted to hurt thousands of people there is no way we could stop them.... yet nothing. It's the biggest joke.
I ask people this. We have open borders. Our country is full of Muslims and people of Middle Eastern descent. Thousands of people hate our government. Bomb making materials are readily available. Do you not find it strangely bizarre that there has not been one attack here on this soil since 911? Do you really think that our intelligence agencies have that type of grasp on the welfare of innocent people and could possibly stop random acts of violence?
The only threat to the American way of life is coming from the people taking our freedoms from us.
___________________
Together in Truth!
common sense points
And the terrorists that do attack somehow don't seem to fit the "Islamofascist" profile.
http://www.newshounds.us/2008/07/28/fox_news_hosts_books_read_by_knoxvil...
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
Yes Tony
That is exactly why the Bush administration uses torture. It seems to me that the truth and the whole truth about 9/11 is starting to catch up with the September criminals. The law of karma is as constant as the law of gravity. In my day we had a saying, "What goes around comes around." That still holds true. There are no free lunches!.................."Down with the NWO".
Another Reason that the U.S. Tortures People
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/07/torture-doesnt-work-so-wha...
some truth on letterman
wow, I'm actually surprise they went even this far on cbs. The white washing continues.
It is turning into a beige washing
It kind of looks like things are so bad that most people are not believing the old propaganda and the white wash doesn't quite cover, so it seems beige washing is now taking it's place.
In other words the MSM is admitting to some things to save their own face.
It does
look that way.....full blown BS isn't working like it used to. Thanks internet !
Pyschopaths?
Anyone who *orders* torture must have some degree of psychopathic personality disorder, at the least, especially in the knowledge that torture produces garbage "intelligence". Torture is fundamentally against any principles of civilized human conduct. Those who *execute* methods of torture would, of course, benefit from having a psychopathic kind of personality, but the consequences of disobeying orders is likely to be considered more important than any moral issues raised by torturing people; in the military, shit rolls downhill, (aka chain of command).
There are people in very senior positions in this administration who exhibit psychopathic traits. Furthermore, when many of the neoconservatives within (and associated with) the Bush Administration have a blatant track record of hatred and phobia towards arabs and muslims, and that a principle aim of the neoconservatives within this administration is to demonize the muslim community worldwide..... it's hardly surprising that torture would be part of their M.O. They probably even derive pleasure from the knowledge that they have the power and motivation to inflict great pain from the comfort of their offices and executive suites.
Osama
Dave appears to be under the impression that we were attacked by Osama.
You all know what to do.
Contact the Late Show.
For all show-related topics, e-mail us at:
cbsmailbag@aol.com
We'll direct your comments and questions to the appropriate departments of the "Late Show."
YES, THEY COMMITTED WAR CRIMES
CHENEY, BUSH, RICE, GONZALES, ADDINGTON, YOO, RUMSFELD, CIA, BLACKWATER AND MANY OTHERS COMMITTED WAR CRIMES. THERE SHOULD BE WAR CRIMES TRIALS FOR ALL OF THEM.
This is without regard for the murderous crimes on 9/11/2001. Some of the same players are guilty of committing that precipitous crime. Of course there are many others on that list.
The torture was to get false confessions. This was to provide cover for the true perpetrators of 911.
The Gitmo trials are a continuation of the cover up.
See Jane Run, See Dave Stop.
See Jane talk, see Dave listen. See Dave talk, watch Jane listen. See Dave lie, watch Jane talk. Dave is scared. Jane is worried. Dave is worried. Jane is smart. Dave is wrong. Jane is brave. Dave is not as brave as Jane.
See Jane promote limited hangout in the corporate media
This book is industrial-strength damage control. The message in essence is this: "Yes, Cheney, Rummy and the boys authorized torture. Yes, technically they committed war crimes. But they were half-crazy with fear and righteous anger after 9/11 and they were desperately trying to protect the American people by any means necessary." The fact that torture produces only false confessions and terror of course belies this premise and should create dissonance in the mind of the reader. But the cosmetic excuse will suffice for most.
The Cheney anthrax panic fiction gives it away.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/16660#comment-192404
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
Don't be intimidated
The War Machine practically boasts about its willingness to torture. At first I was amazed by their audacity, then I realized intimidation is their game. The intended audience is ourselves in the 9/11 Truth movement, among others. Their enormous lies are defended by expert media tacticians who regularly use limited hangouts (like this interview) combined with news accounts of torture policies approved at the highest level to scare us into submission. Anthrax worked just fine for Congress in the aftermath of 9/11. Does anyone know what the real dynamics are of how Congress is currently controlled? I'm curious to know all the ways the Lie is being held up. As Peter Jennings said, "Everybody knows...You must get at the under infrastructure..." We need to get at the under infrastructure as well.
I believe we are closer than we think.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
There's hope for everyone
Early in his career Dave was very liberal. Then he started making big bucks and he got real conservative for quite awhile. Now he seems to be returning to his liberal roots. It might be because he has a child now.
But it's nice to see. It always warms my heart and soul when I see a person over the age of 60 who is (still) liberal. (-ish)
It's not about liberal vs. conservative
The false paradigm is what they want us fighting for.
Why not join together and fight for true freedom and liberty?
What's scary to me is when she said "proper to me is obeying the law". How in the world is obeying the law proper? This is why we're so screwed. Obeying the law and paying taxes that go towards mass murder is proper? Obeying the law and allowing government thugs to steal money from us at the point of a gun is proper?
The "law" made the Federal Reserve possible, now they are sinking us into the 2nd Great Depression. Is this "proper"?
The constitution is a nice idea but it did not stop our government from turning into a fascist/socialist authoritarian empire.
Government is simply violent force and is the root cause here. People like this woman just think that if we had the "right" people controlling the violence that everything would be superb. We need to think deeper about the root issues here, that the State itself, the concept of giving a bunch of people a bunch of guns is the root, and not who broke what "law" or some nonsense about an "illegal" war. War is simply mass murder with uniforms on.
Let's define things as they are and we can move this discussion about truth forward.
Lighten up some
You are SO negative. The viewpoints you put forth are myopic and aberrant in the extreme. (and it is, in part, about liberal vs. conservative (and other related issues) — that is NOT a false paradigm, except in some non-reality fantasy land that has little bearing on much of anything)
One of the founding principals of the U.S. of A. (perhaps the primary one) is the Rule of Law.
"Law", like most other things of that nature, including anarchy, is an ideal. And like all ideals, we often fall short. But that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. It's accepted as common sense that we will fall short of the ideal, and yet we continue to attempt to attain the ideal, none the less.
Human beings are fallible. We don't always do the right thing or make the right decision and sometimes allow external forces of all kinds to negatively and unduly affect us — in our thinking and opinions and viewpoints and feelings and behaviors and actions. Again, common sense, and a known and accepted part of the equation.
However, there are those of us who try very hard to do the right thing most of the time, and part of that is pointing out the bad laws that slip through and attempting to get them repealed. (or not get passed at all in the first place) That's why we have the system we do. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than most other systems throughout the ages and around today in most other countries.
Your comment of "the constitution is a nice idea" is one of the most idiotic things I've read lately. And that saying something.
Here's a clue: YOU (and those like you) are part of the problem.