Congressman Rush Holt Urges Independent Anthrax Investigation

U.S. Rep. Rush Holt (NJ-12) succeeded in including language in the 2010 Intelligence Authorization Bill that would require the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community to examine the possibility of a foreign connection to the 2001 anthrax attacks. The amendment was added less than a week after the FBI arbitrarily closed its investigation.

See Also...

The Anthrax Attacks Remain Unsolved: The FBI disproved its main theory about how the spores were weaponized.
The Wall Street Journal - Jan. 24th, 2010

Shouldn't they investigate...

... the possibility of US connections to the anthrax operation as well...?

You mean like: Why is the USG messing with anthrax?

That's one question I have. Why are they producing weaponized anthrax in the first place? I note that this was happening at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, not at Ft. Detrick Maryland.

Holt is

a dolt if he doesn't realize this.

I'm not sure who said it, but it applies: If they can get you to ask the wrong questions, the answers won't even matter.

Show "The FBI's case against Ivins seems good to me" by Kerberos

Cui Bono?

I believe the Anthrax attacks were perpetrated at the behest of factions of the Cheney/Bush administration to get the Patriot Act passed and to foment the fear of the "evil doers" in the ME who "hate our freedom". It was done to reinforce the 911 psyop.

The FBI dogged Ivins. They offered his son a new car and a butt load of cash to witness against his dad. I personally think that they killed Ivins.

How ridiculous

to imagine it was NOT another falseflag attack. Most of us knew this from the very beginning. Poor Ivins is just another murdered patsy they are holding out to the public in the hopes that we will eat their lies and STFU. Sad to see some of us here buying that baloney

I did resarch the matter

I did look into this topic. My first response to the FBI's report was to try to prove it wrong. When I looked for tangible information that contradicts the FBI's claims, I found none. Well, I didn't find any claims which had not subsequently been retracted. Shall I assume you have read the FBI's report and followed their reasoning regarding Goedel, Escher, Bach? I am aware that Hofstadter made the following statement:

I was contacted by the FBI a couple of years ago about this case, and a couple of FBI people in fact came to my house and spent a few hours talking with me and then went through a bunch of correspondence (both electronic and postal) that I'd had for many years with hundreds if not thousands of people here, there, and everywhere, looking for possible connections with the person they suspected had done the mailings, but as far as I understood, they didn't come up with anything at all. I think they wondered if GEB had had some kind of influence on him, since he was apparently a fan of the book, but I don't see how it could have influenced him, and I don't think that they ever really found any link either. So I think it's basically a red herring, although for me it was interesting to meet the FBI people and to get a tiny glimpse into their way of investigating a complex and important case.

But it seems that he was ignorant of the specifics when he made the statement. If you can come up with something persuasive, I am more than willing to look at it. But just because I expected there to be some kind of conspiracy behind the Anthrax murders doesn't mean the evidence supports it.

I believe the following:

  • The attack on Pearly Harbor was the result of intentional provocation and a willful stand down on the part of FDR
  • The Gulf of Tonkin incident which precipitated the Viet Nam War never happened
  • Air America smuggled heroin from Southeast Asia into the US
  • JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcom X and Medger Evers were victims of conspiracies
  • Israeli leaders ordered the attack on the USS Liberty, knowing full well it was a US ship
  • Randy Weaver was set up by law enforcement
  • The 1993 bombing of the WTC was facilitated by people in the FBI
  • The fire that killed the Branch Davidians was intentionally set by government personnel, and Delta Force was on the ground "pulling triggers"
  • The Murrah Federal Building was destroyed by explosives planted inside the building.
  • Bush Sr. and the Clintons were co-conspirators in a massive cocaine smuggling operation in Mena Arkansas
  • TWA 800 was shot down
  • Colonel Sabow was murdered because he refused to go along with an illicit drug running operation
  • Gary Webb was murdered for telling the truth about CIA drug running
  • 9/11 was an inside job
  • And some things that are too controversial to talk about here
  • George W. Bush served two terms as president because of election fraud

I believe these things because I've seen evidence to support them. I really expected Jerome Hauer to be implicated in the Anthrax attacks. But right now, the evidence seems consistent whit the FBI's case. Yes, people in the FBI have lied before. The might be lying now. My concern is that this could be a "white rabbit" to lead us into an embarrassing position.

"The Anthrax Attacks Remain Unsolved"

Nevertheless, in an attempt to back up its theory, the FBI contracted scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Labs in California to conduct experiments in which anthrax is accidently absorbed from a media heavily laced with silicon. When the results were revealed to the National Academy Of Science in September 2009, they effectively blew the FBI's theory out of the water.

The Livermore scientists had tried 56 times to replicate the high silicon content without any success. Even though they added increasingly high amounts of silicon to the media, they never even came close to the 1.4% in the attack anthrax. Most results were an order of magnitude lower, with some as low as .001%.

What these tests inadvertently demonstrated is that the anthrax spores could not have been accidently contaminated by the nutrients in the media. "If there is that much silicon, it had to have been added," Jeffrey Adamovicz, who supervised Ivins's work at Fort Detrick, wrote to me last month. He added that the silicon in the attack anthrax could have been added via a large fermentor—which Battelle and other labs use" but "we did not use a fermentor to grow anthrax at USAMRIID . . . [and] We did not have the capability to add silicon compounds to anthrax spores."

Where's the corroboration?

As I stated above, I have seen no corroboration for this claim. It seems to have originated in the office of Jerry Nadler. Where's the FBI's report that states a 1.4% silicon content? As I've said, if this claim is factual, there is more reason to doubt the FBI's case against Ivins. As it stands, I am skeptical.

FBI report

I've read the FBI report and I'm afraid I don't find it convincing at all. The GEB part is the weakest, along with the associated attempt to find a "code" in one of the anthrax letters. Through a series of outlandish tap-dances they claim to find a code that says, "F*** New York". This message they corroborate by finding that Dr. Ivins said occasional unflattering things in his emails about the New York Yankees!

In addition, I think the FBI knows it’s wrong about the silicon but is desperately trying to get rid of that idea because the silicon rules out Ivins as the chosen lone nut.

You will notice that the FBI goes from assuming the attacks were carried out by a group from abroad to assuming the deed was carried out by a domestic lone nut. They give no adequate reason anywhere in their report for the move from multiple perps to a single perp. I believe the acts were certainly carried out by a group, and this group is evidently embedded in the heart of the US military-industrial-intelligence community, regardless of whether or not it has foreign connections.

Dr. Ivins said at least twice that he was beginning to realize he was to be the state's blood sacrifice. I think he was right.

Here's the danger as I see it.

Let me start by saying that I am not insisting that you are wrong. There are lots of reasons to doubt the FBI's conclusions.

Though I am a bit uneasy about the notion of MK-ULTRA mind control "Manchurian candidates", there is considerable evidence that research was done in that direction. It may be that Ivins was such a "project". I have lingering doubts about Joe Stack, and John Bedell. It's kind of conspicuous that two "lone nuts" just happen to go on suicide missions against government facilities, and leave a trail of "anti-government" Internet postings which immediately make the news within a few weeks of one another.

Back in March of 1980, a member of a family very closed to the Bush family attempted to assassinate Ronald Reagan. That would have made George H W Bush president. Bush has lifelong ties to the CIA, and a really bad reputation for abusing them. On December 8 of the same year, another lone nut killed John Lennon. Lennon had been the subject of FBI investigations, and reportedly CIA surveillance. He certainly flipped the bird at the establishment. One of his songs, Freda People, Bring on the Lucie (see below) may well have been a veiled attack on the likes of Skull & Bones. I could elaborate, but I won't. See Kay Griggs for a clue.

Now, one interesting thing about Chapman, who allegedly killed Lennon, and Hinckley, who allegedly shot Reagan is that both of them were in possession of the book Catcher in the Rye written by a former OSS (Predecessor of the CIA) officer, at the time of the shootings. There are some other conspicuous similarities that I won't go into right now. Chapman actually had a fairly respectable past, and connections to the US foreign service, which is next door to Spooksville. Were both of these men "Manchurian candidates"? I can speculate ad infinitum.

Alex Jones has a tendency to state things similar to these as fact when he really hasn't made the case conclusively. For example, the "FEMA camp" at the Beech Grove Indiana Train Repair Facility looks a whole lot like a train repair facility. Now why black helicopters were flying around it - as is attested to on video - is an open question.

OK, so what's this got to do with the anthrax murders? Well, if we claim the FBI is covering something up and demand a new investigation which turns up nothing new, the 9/11 terrorist faction in our government can use that failure to argue against "wasting time on yet another conspiracy theory investigation" into 9/11.

We don't care what flag you're waving
We don't even want to know your name
We don't care where you're from or where you're going

All we know is that you came
You're making all our decisions
We have just one request of you

That while you're thinking things over
Here's something you just better do

Free the people now
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now
Free the people now
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now

Well we were caught with our hands in the air
Don't despair paranoia is everywhere
We can shake it with love when we're scared
So let's shout it aloud like a prayer

Free the people now
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now
Free the people now
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now

We understand your paranoia
But we don't want to play your game
You think you're cool and know what you are doing

666 is your name
So while you're jerking off each other
You better bear this thought in mind
Your time is up you better know it
But maybe you don't read the signs

Free the people now
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now
Free the people now
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now

Well you were caught with your hands in the kill
And you still got to swallow your pill
As you slip and you slide down the hill
On the blood of the people you killed

Stop the killing (Free the people now)
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now
Stop the killing (Free the people now)
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now

Some good points about Hinkley and Chapman but

where you theory falls apart is that for a manchurian candidate Ivins was delievered way too late! He would have been front and center and the Govt would not have been paying off millions of dollars to the wrongly accused scientist who came before. Poor John Lennon went the way of Abbie Hoffman as the agenda was to take away our leaders. RIP

Point on chronology

FYI, Reagan was shot in March of '81, not '80; that is, a few months after Lennon's murder, not before.

Yes, both shootings were very fishy--more so than I realized at the time.

Thanks for the correction

I thought there was something wrong with the chronology. I should have looked closer. I just grabbed the dates from the first sources I found while I was composing the comment. I thought the events were closer together than my post stated.

The fact that the Hinckley and Bush families had long-standing mutual friendships and business relations is more than conspicuous.

Of course, the whole reason I brought this up is because I wanted to explore the feasibility of the notion that Ivins may have been an MK-ULTRA victim. I am more than convinced that people within the Intelligence Community have, over the years, engaged in some truly bizarre conduct. Take the example of Michael A. Aquino and the Temple of Set.

The question is not whether there are people wicked enough to brainwash a decent man such as Ivins into committing horrible crimes. 9/11 is proof of such depravity. The question is whether they had the means and opportunity to do so. The evidence is very strong that something similar had been tried before. it is a matter of official public record that another research scientist at Ft. Detrick was a victim of MK-ULTRA.

Now, assuming it is the case that Ivins was brainwashed in the tradition of MK-ULTRA, how can it be proved? It took me a long time to wrap my mind around the possibility that people were even attempting this kind of thing. I still have reservations about the feasibility of actually brainwashing someone in this way. If some sitting member of Congress got up on the House floor and made such accusations, he would likely be hounded out of office as a "conspiracy kook", as was Curt Weldon for his stance on 9/11.

What about Philip Zack?

Why would Ivins target senators and newspapers who may have a interest in opposing the patriot act? Most likely these two attacks (911 +anthrax) are two very related fear tactics with specific Hegelian Principle objectives.


Senator Daschle was the Senate Majority Leader. Patrick Leahy was the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. The time period they were discussing how to go about investigating 9/11 and whether or not to pass the Patriot Act. Those were huge players in that discussion.

true true..

I would hard pressed to believe that highly engineered nano-composite explosives and highly engineered weaponized anthrax showing up in the same month (albeit the former was found years later) in the worse crimes against America would indicate a "lone-nut" anywhere.

peace all

"It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear."
- Douglas MacArthur

roscoe bartlett

spelled it out pretty good & I hope this goes FORWARD.


'It is difficult to summarize what the book is about – indeed, in the 20th anniversary edition of the book, Dr. Hofstadter lamented the fact that it was poorly, if at all, understood. However, the basic premise is that there are surface meanings (the "frame message") and then there are meanings within mathematics (Godel), art (Escher), and music (Bach) that are hidden (the "inner message").'
The United States Department of Justice

Not according to the author..

'In a word, GEB is a very personal attempt to say how it is that animate beings can come out of inanimate matter.'
Douglas R. Hofstadter, in the Preface to GEB's Twentieth-anniversary Edition.

The subtitle is 'a metaphorical fugue on minds and machines in the spirit of Lewis Carroll'.

From the index:
frame messages, 162, 166-167, 176
inner messages, 166-71, 175-76, 501, 524

That's 11 pages out of 742.

GEB is about Paradox, Recursion, Holism and Reductionism...

I read GEB carefully in the early 1980s. The fact that "frame message" occurs on only eleven pages doesn't mean that this is not an important theme throughout the book. It really doesn't have bearing on the FBI's case. What does have bearing is that there is an encoding method described in the book which seemed to correspond to the highlighted letters in the Anthrax letters. They reportedly found notes in Ivins's copy of the book which indicated that he had paid special attention to that section. His behavior in attempting to dispose of that copy is conspicuous - assuming the FBI is telling the truth.

Ivins did have a fixation on a woman from New York, and apparently transferred his resentment for being rejected to the state. He was mentally ill, and their argument is consistent with that illness. Please see my comment on MK-ULTRA for another angle on this.


"..assuming the FBI is telling the truth."

Good one :)

But within that narrow band of possibility, I also find Ivin's behavior strange. Have you seen Cathy O'Brien talk?

I really enjoyed Roseanne Barr's introduction from a talk last year. I know Roseanne doesn't believe the 911 OCT (particularly WTC7), and I wish she would talk about 911 Truth more.

Testimony to Presidents Committee on Human Radiation Experiments

I watched several videos by and/or about Cathy O'Brien. My reaction was basically: 'this can't be true, but if it's not, then why would this otherwise normal seeming woman be up there saying these things?' I tend to believe what she says, especially after seeing the images of her mutilated private parts. I'm still cautious.

The following is even more convincing, though somewhat less sensational.

Testimony before the Presidents Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments, March, 1995. A therapist and two victims of childhood mind control experiments tell their stories. Caution: emotional material. One of three.

Chris DeNicola speaks of her childhood experiences as a human mind control subject at the hands of government scientists in their race to control the human mind. Survivor of MKULTRA experiments on children in the 1960's and 1970's tells of her ordeal at the hands of Sidney Gottlieb, Richard Helms, L. Wilson Green, Martin T. Orne, Ewen Cameron, Morse Allen, George White, Robert G Heath (Tulane), Gittinger, James Hamilton. Caution, emotional material. 6min.

The testimony of an MKULTRA test subject who was subjected to electo-shock, LSD, radiation, rape, dislocation of joints, chemical and drug experimentation as a child. Sent to a special school with many other children and taught how to sexually please men and entrap them in order for Richard Helms, Sidney Gottlieb, Martin Orne, L. Wilson Green, and others to use sexual blackmail operations (children) to secure permanent funding for MKULTRA, experiments and operations that continue to this day.


Thanks for those videos.

It's ridiculous how people are afraid of seeking help for fear of being called crazy, yet Ewen Cameron was president of the American, Canadian and World psychiatric associations.

"In addition to LSD and PCP, Cameron also experimented with various paralytic drugs, as well as electroconvulsive therapy at 30 to 40 times the normal power. His "driving" experiments consisted of putting subjects into drug-induced coma for months on end (up to three in one case) while playing tape loops of noise or simple repetitive statements."

Many of his subjects were apparently not voluntary. I wonder much of psychiatry today is influenced by these psychotic weirdos, and what kind of demented 'experiments' are now performed behind the cover of the National Security Act.

Yikes. Changing channel to entertainment briefly, I'm currently watching a TV series called 'The Pretender' that's quite good. It's based on a private military outfit called 'The Center', that kidnaps children to run them through various 'simulations'. It's obviously quite sanitized. The main guy's surrogate father is called Sidney.

And 'Monster' was an anime series I saw that's also related and brilliant. It's a detective story, and the guy they're after went through various 'experiments' as a child. Here's part of a sub-story (from ep.37) called 'The Monster without a name'

I chose that atypical clip because the 'The Monster without a name' book reminds me of the 'About faces' book that Cathy O'Brien describes reading with Poppy Bush..

"I am the Vice President when circumstance demands,
And I am your Commander, you’ll follow my commands.
The first command’s important - It is one you will heed,
When I send you a book, you are what you read."

Obama threatens to Veto second probe into Anthrax attacks.

Protecting agencies from oversight, Obama threatens to veto intelligence funding

Shocker: Obama agencies invoke secrecy provision in Freedom of Information Act more often than under Bush

Actually Ivins closely fit the profile of an MK-ULTRA victim

The alleged mechanism for "Manchurian candidate" programming is to induce, or foster existing dissociative identity disorder through various means such as drugs and trauma. Some of these people are "reused". That is, they are sent on multiple missions of which they have no memory while in their "primary personality". They are also allegedly programed to commit suicide if they start having their "secondary personality" exposed. From what I've read about DIDS, people who recover from it say that they were always "aware" of the multiple personalities, it's just that they would automatically block out thoughts that would reveal them. Like being in one room and not going into an adjacent one because it "didn't feel right".

I discovered that I had some trauma induced dissociative amnesia regarding something that happened to me as a teen. I had blocked it out for decades. I had subconsciously filled in the period with events which had happened either before or after the blocked out event. I used to think this stuff was bunk, until I realized it had happened to me. No, I don't suffer from DIDS. This was much milder. My own experience with my mind "playing tricks" on me makes the claims about MK-ULTRA more persuasive.

While I was writing this reply, I came across this article:

MK-ULTRA: The CIA's Mind Control Program

by Stephen Lendman
Tuesday, 16 February 2010

Perhaps MK-ULTRA's most publicized victim was Frank Olsen, a biochemist working for the Army Chemical Corps' Special Operations Division at Ft. Detrick, MD. On November 18, 1953, he was administered LSD. Immediately, he became agitated and severely paranoid. Nine days later, he reportedly committed suicide by jumping 13 stories to his death through a New York hotel's closed window. His family members didn't know he was drugged until MK-ULTRA was exposed in 1975.


The CIA and US military copied the Nazi methodology through numerous programs, including MK-ULTRA, MK being an abbreviation for words "mind control" in German. According to obtained documents, it works best when severe trauma (such as rape) occurs by age three, the result often causing the personality to split or dissociate (called dissociative identity disorder or DID) to repress painful memories.

Therapists can cause multiple personality disorder (MPD) by mind manipulation, but early in life trauma makes victims especially vulnerable. Gottlieb focused on LSD for mind control and exotic poisons and drugs for political assassinations.


That is actually stunningly consistent with what Ivins had said regarding his involvement in the attacks. This is from the FBI report:

Witness: “I’m trying to be supportive and understanding. But I guess a part of what you had said before to me in response to that was that, you know, there kind of seems to be another person at times. And if you don’t remember doing that, I mean [pause], don’t get mad [laugh], are you absolutely . . .?
Bruce: “You were going to say how do I know that I didn’t have
anything to do with . . . .”
Witness: “Yeah.”
Bruce: “I will tell that, I will tell you that it’s, I can’t pull that up. And a lot of times with e-mails, I don’t know that I sent an e-mail until I see it in the sent box. And it worries me when I wake up in the morning and I’ve got all my clothes and my shoes on, and my car keys are right beside there. . . . And I don’t have it in my, in my, I, I can tell you I don’t have it in my heart to kill anybody.”
* * *
Bruce: “And I, and I do not have any recollection of ever have doing anything like that. As a matter of fact, I don’t have no clue how to, how to make a bio-weapon and I don’t want to know.”
* * *
Bruce: “The only reason I remember some of this stuff, it’s because there’s like a clue the next day. Like there’s an e-mail or, or, you know, when you’re, when you’re in bed and you’re like, you’re like this, you know, that’s, that’s not real fun. It’s like ‘oh shit, did I drive somewhere last night?’”
Witness: “Right, yeah, yeah, that must be awfully scary.”
Bruce: “It really certainly is. Uh, because I can tell you, I am not a killer at heart.”

The witness suggested that maybe Dr. Ivins should get hypnotized to help him remember, to which he replied that he would be terrified.

Bruce: “What happens if I find something that, that is like buried deep, deep, deep, and you know, like from, from my past or I mean . . . like when I was a kid or stuff like that you know?”
* * *
Bruce: “Oh, but I mean, you know, that would just, that would just like, like, like make me want to jump off a bridge. You know, that would be . . .”
Witness: “What’s that? If you found out that . . . .”
Bruce: “If I found out I was involved in some way, and, and . . .”
Witness: “And you don’t consciously know?”
Bruce: “Have any, any clue. [pause] [groan] ‘Cause like, I’m, I’m not uh, a uh, I don’t think of myself as a vicious, a, a nasty evil person.”
Witness: “Oh no, no, me either, but I mean, unless there is a whole other side . . .”
Bruce: “Yeah.”
Witness: “ . . . that is buried down in there . . .”
Bruce: “Yeah.”
Witness: “. . . for whatever reason.”
Bruce: “Because I, I don’t like to hurt people, accidentally, in, in any way. And [several scientists at USAMRIID] wouldn’t do that. And I, in my right mind wouldn’t do it [laughs]. . . . But it’s still, but I still feel responsibility because it [RMR-1029] wasn’t locked up at the time . . . .”

Frank Olson

wanted out! That's when they gave him the LSD. It was just comming on the scene and agents from the agency were being given it without their knowledge etc. Olson's regular nurse was replaced the night he "jumped". Bulllshit!

CIA 'Doctors'

"In 1994, Eric Olson had his father's body exhumed. The forensic scientist in charge of the examination, George Washington University professor James E. Starrs, determined that Olson had suffered some form of blunt force trauma to the temple/forehead prior to falling out of the broken window, but contrarily had no visible laceration indicating that he fell through a broken window. The evidence was called "rankly and starkly suggestive of homicide." Based on his findings, in 1996 the Manhattan District Attorney opened a homicide investigation into Olson's death, but was unable to find enough evidence to bring charges."

Olson's death appears to be the source of the 'take acid and you'll jump out of a window' meme that kids are indoctrinated with.

Hope folks noticed Olson, like Ivins did bio-weapons resarch

By reading my contributions to this thread, you can see my change of position on the question of responsibility for the anthrax murders. Originally I found the FBI's report persuasive. I still do; however, with a significant qualification. What the FBI reports is probably accurate. The question is one of interpretation. When I first read it, MK-ULTRA crossed my mind, but didn't stick. As a response to other posts in this thread I hesitantly began to propose the MK-ULTRA angle. The more I looked at the FBI report on Ivins, the more I realized he fit the profile of an MK-ULTRA victim. I had known about Olson from reading Drugs, Society and Human Behavior, by Oakley Ray back in the early 1980s. What didn't register with me until I did a search while composed my comment is that Olson held a position Ft. Detrick almost identical to Ivins's position there.

I realize this is problematic territory for many reasons, but there is a powerful ring of truth in the proposition that Ivins was MK-ULTRA programmed. My guess is that Olson was a failed effort at producing a "Manchurian candidate" who would carry out missions similar to what Ivins is accused of having done. Given a few decades to perfect their art, they produced "Bad Bruce Ivins".

Under the assumption that I am correct in my speculations, look how neatly this works. Ivins is programmed to commit murders and forget what he did. The FBI investigates and find Ivins to have an extremely bizarre response to questions about his involvement. Ivins is clearly mentally ill, and commits suicide when his involvement starts being exposed; perhaps exposed to "Good Bruce" for the first time. Ivins was programed to commit suicide in such a case. From the perspective of the FBI investigators, they have their man. They aren't being dishonest. They just don't see the bigger picture.

I Give the FBI Credit

I give the FBI credit for proving Ivins hid porn from his wife. Well done FBI. Now if you could find out who made the anthrax, and also who mailed the anthrax that would be great. Don't look at Bioport(Emergent BioSolutions) or Battelle Labs, because that might lead to exposing violations of Bioweapons treaties, which would be of course unpatriotic.