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Ae911Truth: NIST Holds a Public Conference Call on WTC7

The NIST NCST Committee on WTC7 held a public meeting on the progress of the WTC7 report. One of the public commentators was Richard Gage AIA.
The call contains a number of stunning admissions by NIST regarding the WTC7 fires, as well as interesting questions from NIST committee members and powerful statements from three citizen commentators.

Full Call (113MB): http://nasathermalimages.com/images/NIST_NCST_Advisory_Committee_Meeting_12-18-01.mp3
Richard Gage's Comments (6MB): http://nasathermalimages.com/images/NIST_NCST_Advisory_Committee_Meeting_12-18-01_Richard_Gage_AIA.mp3

The complete call is exceptional and is well worth the time to listen to.

Thank You!

Is there any info on exactly what tests used exclude explosives?

John A MITCHELL
Herblay FRANCE

bonjour ,

Thanks for the audio. Nist says somewhere about 1/3 that
"they did not find evidence of a blast or controlled demolition"

As this is a reply to "critical frequently asked questions" I would like to know if Nist has every given details exactly on what test they did for example tests for thermite, thermate etc.

If NIST really wants to reply to us perhaps they can go into detail about the tests they performed that excluded use of explosives, etc.

Does anyone have any lead up to their tests ?

Yours

John

Shyam Sunder seems like a decent

guy. It was knowledgable to hear that the airplane fuel came into play ONLY in the first few
minutes, for the two trade center.

For WTC7, he said it was a normal fire & no diesel fuel lines
came into play.

It's nice to hear that from the lead investigators mouth.

Smoldering fires making WTC7 collapse?

Thanks for posting the audio.
From hearing the tape I conclude that one of the working hypotheses being probed by NIST is that fires in WTC7 burned approximately 20 minutes in a place before moving on to the next place. These fires were not strong, in fact they are apparently presumed by NIST to have been smoldering, because that is the only way that they could have lasted for so long (approximately 6 hours). With stronger fires the burnables would have run out much faster. Still these smoldering fires are supposed to have caused significant damage to the steel frame structure of the building.

Since the fires would have moved through the building, the heat from them would have been applied very inhomogeneously throughout the building, and this is extremely unlikely to compromise the steel frame structure such that it collapses all at once, like it did. To explain this strange fact, some committee members of NIST propose the hypothesis that temperatures would have hardly dropped after fires were finished.

So, we get the picture of fires smoldering in a building for 6 hours (but never getting intense for more than 20 minutes), thereby gradually and homogeneously heating up the steel frame structure of the building to the point that it collapses suddenly. What I learned to get my degrees at a technical University was to always use my common sense before applying mathematical modeling. Just wish that the people at NIST did the same.

20 minutes is not enough to weaken structural steel

"one of the working hypotheses being probed by NIST is that fires in WTC7 burned approximately 20 minutes in a place before moving on to the next place"

They said basically the same thing about fires in the Twin Towers as well. Of course fires move from place to place in search of burnable material.

What damage could a 20-25 minute fire cause to any steel support, with or without fireproofing? All the burnable material would have been consumed before the steel even had time to be heated to the point of weakening.

How long did NIST subject steel to fires in their experiments (the results of which they disregarded in their report)?

I have been working with

I have been working with steel for the last 33 years.To say that steel will weaken in a carbon fire after 20 minutes is on a par with believing Santa will come down your chimney next week.It,s absurd! especially as all the steel was interconnected.Its bad enough we are expectedt to ignore Newtonian laws but they expect us to ignore the laws of thermodynamics as well.Just when i thought their credability could not get any lower they appear to have surpassed themselves.NIST are like the Keystone Cops and Monty Python all rolled into one.

Santa doesn't come down my chimney?

Even though I don't have a chimney, I still believe Santa comes down it.

I think you just hate president Bush!

;>)

Just be careful that if you

Just be careful that if you leave some mince pies out for Santa you don,t overcook them.Your cooker will sag pulling on the walls of your house causing global collapse.It will fall like a pack of cards at freefall speed.Its not impossible because millions of dimwits believe it is true.

Make sure you never cook pancakes again either,the pancake effect is even worse.

Richard Gage's Comments were excellent...

Forceful and fact full.

Great job.

Thanks.

linked site is down right now.

6 AM PST. Cannot access the site, http://nasalthermalimages.com

We REALLY need a transcript of this!

We REALLY need a transcript of this! Do you think NIST will make one available? Has anyone seen one - I have not. Would anyone be willing to make a transcript of choice quotes? Perhaps I will later today. Peace

Is there a computer program which can transcript automatically?

I agree a transciption would be very helpful but a transcription takes a long time for a person or persons to do.

With all our technology today ( dictacting our lettes to word , etc ) is there not a way to automatically put the majority of sentences spoken to a microsoft word document. Leaving a small part to complete and correct ?

http://www.google.fr/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Afr%3Aoffi...

I am open to suggestions.

Yours John

Nuance Naturally Speaking Preferred 9.0

http://www.nuance.com

http://www.bestbuy.com

(I bought it but they are backordered at the moment )

Avast!

I have copies of . . .

. . . the entire debate unedited from the very beginning -- and I mean the VERY beginning -- where the NIST crew are trying to set up the teleconference meeting between members that were supposed to be present. It's actually kind funny at times. Last night I made an MP3 with most of the extended silent moments edited out. I'll post it later.

Also, I used the closed captioning feature and saved the final HTML document, so I do have something of a transcript. However, I can't seem to figure out how to convert it into a document which everyone can read. I can't cut and paste from it either. Anybody have any suggestions?

EDIT: My edit of the minutes before the NIST meeting:

http://media.putfile.com/NIST-NCST-Advisory-Committee-Meeting-Introduction

Here's the original asf

Direct stream copy. Starts 20 minutes before the meeting.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=525E5L18

(and it's a smaller file than the mp3 it was converted to)

Jumbo Jets Can Not Demolish Skyscrapers.

Is anyone else getting an error message for the links above?

I received this:

"You have requested a site that is currently offline. This generally happens when a site is temporarily disabled for some reason, but has not been permanently removed."

Yup.

I am also. Is there a money/bandwidth issue, I wonder?

I'm available to transcribe this if I can get access to it.

wtcdemolition.com/blog

It's fixed.

Jumbo Jets Can Not Demolish Skyscrapers.

Yeah likewise but Nist state

Yeah likewise but Nist state this on their website"The minutes of this meeting will be available here as soon as possible"so i doubt we will have to wait long for the transcript.

links seem to work now

Links seem to be working now. Richard Gage did an excellent job and deserves the thanks of the "truth movement" for being there

That's interesting

NIST does not claim to know how the fires were initiated in WTC7. At one point, a participants asks NIST if the fires were initiated by the collapse of WTC2, and the NIST guy is ambiguous in his response. All they know is that there were fires, which may have been caused by the collapse.

You would think the main thing NIST could prove is that the fires were solely caused by the collapses, but he avoids saying that. He says there are other forms of initiation, such as electrical outlets, but how can they not be sure what started the initial fires unless they are aware of other possibilities?

Richard was amazing- The

Richard was amazing- The truth movement is in good hands, it has some amazing and passionate people involved. A dire contrast to the people working at NIST.

MP3 Audio Clip - Richard Gage Statement (1 Meg)

Wednesday December 19, 2007
Richard Gage AIA Comments As Part Of NIST NCST Committee Meeting On WTC7 Report

* source = http://www.ae911truth.org
-----------------------------------

Wednesday October 24, 2007
Architect For 9/11 Truth Richard Gage on Drive Time Radio

* source = http://www.wtic.com/
-----------------------------------

More MP3 Audio Clips >

Richard's was...

... a concise, articulate, powerful statement.

The only thing I would have left out is reference to the alleged mistimed explosions near the top corner of the building. As some have pointed out, they are very unclear in the video and may be something else than squibs. (They don't protrude from the building the way squibs in the towers or normal CD's do.)

I didn't have time to listen to the whole meeting. Still no timetable for releasing the report?

http://11syyskuu.blogspot.com/2006/02/destruction-of-wtc-7.html

Timetable for Report

NIST's new timetable for the B7 report can be found on the last slide of the presentation found here: http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTAC_December18(Sunder).pdf

As you can see, we'll be luck to get it before the elections next November.

nth revision of the timetable

This just shows the enormous difficulties NIST is facing in trying to come up with a plausible report and not lose its scientific credibility.

Now is the time to invest even more in the case of building seven. Things to emphasize (in my opinion):

- almost all physical evidence was destroyed by May 2002
- no on-site investigations, although the building had been evacuated and collapsed mostly within its own footprint
- NIST is not following up FEMA's analysis of the melting of the few recovered steel samples from WTC 7
- sudden, symmetrical onset of the destruction; all 80 steel support columns had to give in simultaneously
- the speed of the destruction; on average 7 floors per second, leaving about 0.14 seconds for the dropping and total destruction of each floor and its support structures
- what was destroyed with the building, who profited and in what ways

Things NOT to emphasize (in my opinion):

- "pull it" (this doesn't lead anywhere)
- top-corner "blobs"

Plus:

Why the shutdown of the fire alarm in the morning?
(this was also adressed in the conference)

I disagree that "pull it" is insignificant or can't lead anywhere!
They must invite Silverstein for comment, why is that so hard, it's the most logical thing to do.

The corner "blobs" are also important as they are visible evidence of "something" going on in the building.

Agree with Vesa

Vesa said.."The only thing I would have left out is reference to the alleged mistimed explosions near the top corner of the building. As some have pointed out, they are very unclear in the video and may be something else than squibs. (They don't protrude from the building the way squibs in the towers or normal CD's do.)"

I agree. One could sieze on that and ignore the rest of what he has to say. Is Richard Aware of all the explainations? Otherwise I have to say, Richard Gage has shown himself to be a true hero of the truth movement by putting this evidence into the record, and confronting NIST live on the internet for the world to hear. I think he did the best one could with 5 minutes. The investigation continues. and the points he brings up can no longer be ignored as it is part of the record now.

listened to Gage's comments:

excellent points- thank you, Mr. Gage, indeed.

The Top 40
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

NIST Admits Diesel Fuel Not Cause of WTC 7 Collapse

The only unusual thing about World Trade Center Building 7 is that diesel fuel was stored in the building to fuel Rudy Giuliani's emergency command bunker.

However, NIST admitted yesterday that the destruction of building 7 had nothing to do with the diesel fuel.

NIST's "working collapse hypothesis" is that:

  • An initial local failure occurred at the lower floors (below floor 13) of the building due to fire and/or debris-induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event) which supported a large-span floor bay with an area of about 2,000 square feet;
  • Vertical progression of the initial local failure occurred up to the east penthouse, and as the large floor bays became unable to redistribute the loads, it brought down the interior structure below the east penthouse; and
  • Triggered by damage due to the vertical failure, horizontal progression of the failure across the lower floors (in the region of floors 5 and 7 that were much thicker and more heavily reinforced than the rest of the floors) resulted in a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure.

NIST explains that "The working hypothesis for the initiating event sequence that characterizes the initial local failure is based on fire-induced failures initiating in the tenant floors:

  • Floor beams, slabs, and connections heat more quickly and to higher temperatures than the columns.
  • Elevated temperatures in the floor elements lead to thermal expansion, sagging, and weakening that result in failure of floor connections and/or buckling of floor beams.
  • Sufficient floor component failures (connections and/or beams) result in at least one long unsupported column at the lower floors, which leads to the initiation of global collapse.

Sounds reasonable, right?

Well, how come office fires in other modern steel skyscrapers which burned much longer and hotter than WTC 7 didn't experience the same conditions of differential heating and local failures or -- if they did -- why didn't they collapse also? See this and this.

Another illustrative example

"See this and this."

And especially this.

That's from Qatar in 2005. A still unfinished skyscraper burning on every floor.

WTC5 fire

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

http://9-11.Meetup.com/322
Many hands make light work!
Every day, every 11th!

Transcript

I am absolutely willing and quite able to do a transcript, but I can NEVER get the link to do anything. Is anyone else having issues? I click on it and it thinks about it, brings me to another page, says "Done" and nothing is there.

Massively frustrating.

Still not working?

It works for me... I also posted the original asf file here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=525E5L18

Jumbo Jets Can Not Demolish Skyscrapers.

Got it!

Thanks ... I got it now! =o)

--- NIST_NCST_Advisory_Commit

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NIST_NCST_Advisory_Committee_Meeting_12-18-01.mp3
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H4ZPQ0NX
---