David Ray Griffin: Reported Cell Phone Calls from the 9/11 Planes - Further Reflections Evoked By Critique

Reported Cell Phone Calls from the 9/11 Planes
Further Reflections Evoked by a Critique

by Prof. David Ray Griffin - Global Research, September 7, 2008

Earlier this year, Andrew Kornkven posted a comment and a blog critical of my discussion, in Chapter 17 of my book 9/11 Contradictions, of reported cell phone calls from the 9/11 airliners. In this reply, I respond to both of these criticisms, referring to former as his "Comment," to the latter as his "Blog." (All quotations are from the Blog unless otherwise indicated.) Although Kornkven's criticisms are based on confusions and other errors, my response to them has led me to report some information about this issue that I had not previously published, although much of it is in my most recent book, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited. This distinction means that, although many of my comments, especially in the first parts of this essay, consist of responses to confused criticisms (which the reader will probably want to move through quickly), this essay does, especially in its later parts, contain several points of great importance.

Kornkven begins his Comment by saying: "David Ray Griffin continues to put forth a misleading line of argument regarding the 'cell phone' calls." With the term "continues," he alludes to the fact that he had written an earlier critique, to which I wrote a reply. In that reply, I gave some reasons for being dubious of Kornkven's theory as to what really happened, which lies behind his criticism of my position. According to his theory, there really were hijackers on the planes, but they were not Arab Muslims, or even Muslims of any sort. He also holds that relatives of victims did not actually report receiving cell phones calls. Instead, this claim was invented by the corporate media to trick the foreseen 9/11 truth movement into denying that the calls occurred, because the calls had revealed real truths that the government did not want to be known.

Why, I wondered, if the hijackers were not really devout Muslims, expecting to receive a heavenly reward for their martyrdom, would they have volunteered to commit suicide simply to provide a pretext for a war against Muslims; Kornkven's only escape from this conclusion would seem to be to speculate, implausibly, that they bailed out of the planes at the last minute. I also wondered why, if the corporate media had falsely claimed that some of the families had reported receiving cell phone calls, the Internet carries no stories about complaints from these relatives published in local papers.

In the present essay, in any case, I do not argue against Kornkven's own thesis. I simply reply to his charge (in hisComment) that my discussion is "misleading" and to his charge (in his Blog) that it contains "serious logical errors."

The "Cell Phone Myth" The central target of Kornkven's critique is what he calls the Cell Phone Myth, which he defines in his Comment as "the idea, advocated by Griffin, that the majority of calls were made on cell phones." However, I do not believe that there were any cell phone calls from the planes.

Kornkven evidently stated his meaning more accurately in the first paragraph of his Comment, in which he said: "Despite Griffin's claims to the contrary in Chapter 17 of 9/11 Contradictions, neither the FBI nor the 9/11 [Commission] ever claimed that all, or even most, of the calls were made on cell phones." But I never said anything remotely similar to this.

With regard to the 9/11 Commission, I pointed out that its report mentioned cell phone calls, but without specifying how many such calls were allegedly made, only in relation to United Flight 93.

With regard to the FBI, almost all of my discussion is about its 2006 report to the Moussaoui trial, at which it said that there had been only two cell phone calls from all four flights combined. With regard to the FBI's position prior to then, I made only two comments. My first comment was a complaint that "the FBI had not discouraged the press or the 9/11 Commission from claiming that passengers had used cell phones to report the existence of hijackers on the planes." Although that statement said nothing about what the FBI claimed, something was at least implied by my second comment: Using the word "authorities" to refer primarily to the FBI, I spoke of "one of the chief elements in the story about 9/11 told by authorities and the press from the outset---that the presence of hijackers on the flights had been reported by means of cell phone calls from those flights." I clearly suggested that the FBI immediately after 9/11 was stating that hijackers were reported on cell phone calls. To say that, however, is not to say that the FBI claimed that "all, or even most, of the calls were made on cell phones." I said so little about the 9/11 Commission and pre-2006 FBI assertions because virtually all of my discussion in the chapter was about what was reported by the press and consequently widely believed. This feature of the chapter led to one of the strangest criticisms in Kornkven's Blog:

Griffin next presents a lengthy jumble of media reports claiming cell phone calls. It's hard to believe that a major figure in the truth movement would base his argument on stories appearing in The Washington Post, Newsweek, The National Review, and other pillars of the controlled media.

Kornkven's criticism would make sense only if I had been suggesting that these media reports were true. But I was not. I was simply documenting the point made in my opening sentence, namely:

A central element in the story of the hijackings of the four airliners, as it unfolded in the press . . . , was that passengers had reported the presence of Middle-Eastern hijackers on the planes by means of cell phone calls to family members and authorities.

Documenting this point required, of course, quoting the Washington Post, Newsweek, and other mainstream (corporately controlled) publications.

With that confused criticism dismissed, I turn now to the question of whether my discussion of the press exemplified the Cell Phone Myth: Did I claim that the press portrayed a majority of the calls as having been made on cell phones? Hardly.

What I stated was that, according to press reports, "there were at least eleven cell phone calls from United Flight 93" plus "two each from UA 175 and AA 77." As a result, "it has been widely believed that there were at least fifteen . . . cell phone calls."

According to the 2006 FBI report, there were a total of 64 calls (counting those from both onboard and cell phones) from the four flights. Prior to that report, it was widely believed that there were 40 or more calls. By portraying 15 of those (40 to 64) calls as coming from cell phones, the press did not come close to claiming that "most" or "the majority" of the calls from the flights were cell phone calls.

However, it is also true, as I pointed out, that many of the press stories gave special attention to the reported cell phone calls in providing evidence of hijackers on the flights. An early Washington Post story, for example, said: "Glick's cell phone call from Flight 93 and others like it provide the most dramatic accounts so far of events aboard the four hijacked aircraft." Another Post story about this flight said: "The plane was at once a lonesome vessel, the people aboard facing their singular fate, and yet somehow already attached to the larger drama, connected again by cell phones." Referring to such stories, I wrote: "cell phone calls were portrayed as a central---even the principal---means by which we had learned what happened on the planes." But I did not---as the figures in the previous paragraph show---portray the press as stating that the majority of the calls were made on cell phones.

Besides invalidly turning my statement that some cell phone calls were reportedly made into the claim that "most of the calls were cell phone calls," Kornkven sometimes even changes the most to all. He did this in one of the charges quoted above, namely: "Despite Griffin's claims to the contrary . . . , neither the FBI nor the 9/11 [Commission] ever claimed that all . . . of the calls were made on cell phones." Kornkven also did this in asking: "Why does Griffin want to turn away from this evidence by imagining that the calls were cell phone calls?"

In logic, even more basic than the distinction between some and most is the threefold distinction between none, some, and all. In an article in which he is accusing someone else of logical errors, Kornkven should have been careful not to commit such a basic one.

This error, incidentally, led to a bizarre charge against Dylan Avery. Discussing Loose Change 2, Kornkven wrote:

"At the 1:07 mark of that film, Dylan Avery asks,

"'next, what about the cell phone calls...?'

"Avery didn't seem to have even considered the possibility that some or most of the calls were made on airphones, which is peculiar since, a few minutes later in the film, while describing Mark Bingham's call to his mother from UAL93, he specifically mentions that Bingham twice told his mom that he was calling from an airphone. The damage to the truth movement by this oversight is incalculable. Was it truly an oversight, or something worse?"

Continued at:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10103

I want to add

that DRG was the first place that I heard about the Mark Bingham call, with the, "Hi Mom, this is Mark Bingham."

Sounds a little weird, but the mother didn't think so.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Mom,_this_is_Mark_Bingham

Apparently her son did this from time to time. Thinking about it, this is the kind of habit that people who spend a lot of phone time professionally may pick up.

Nobody's perfect, but we really need much tighter fact-finding than what we have seen to date in 9/11 Truth. People are out there using DRG's books to argue 9/11 Truth. I respect that DRG wants to clear things up and defend himself, but cut the ego nonsense. I would have had more regard for this essay if DRG acknowledged some of his own mistakes in discussing the cell phone story.

The broader message, to me, is that cell phone fakery is adding a lot of questionable complexity to a theory of conspiracy. On this score alone, I would suggest that this be acknowledged as one of the most speculative theories within 9/11 Truth, and probably not something that should be actively pursued in debate on the merits of the official story.

I agree.

Some people out there are still touting the Mark Bingham phone call without being aware of his mother's explanation. We absolutely must be on top of things like this or our opposition will exploit them.

Let me clarify a few things...

Since I am one of the first to reply to this essay, let me clarify a few points even before I have finished reading it in its entirety. Griffin writes:

"According to his [Kornkven's] theory, there really were hijackers on the planes, but they were not Arab Muslims, or even Muslims of any sort. He also holds that relatives of victims did not actually report receiving cell phones calls. Instead, this claim was invented by the corporate media to trick the foreseen 9/11 truth movement into denying that the calls occurred, because the calls had revealed real truths that the government did not want to be known."

One not familiar with this intricate debate might conclude from the above that I believe the relatives of the victims did not receive phone calls whatsoever. I believe that all the calls from the planes-- the one allegedly from Todd Beamer on UAL93 excepted-- are real, made by real passengers who were in the process of being hijacked by real hijackers. I have also conceded that a few of the calls, such as Renee Mays' from AAL77, were indeed made with cell phones. My contention, however, is that the vast majority of the calls were made from GTE seatback airphones installed on at least three of the planes.

Griffin writes:

"Why, I wondered, if the hijackers were not really devout Muslims, expecting to receive a heavenly reward for their martyrdom, would they have volunteered to commit suicide simply to provide a pretext for a war against Muslims; Kornkven's only escape from this conclusion would seem to be to speculate, implausibly, that they bailed out of the planes at the last minute."

Griffin falls for the trap of believing that only devout Muslims would be willing to die for their country, people, or religion. No doubt the architects of 9/11 assumed we would all do the same. However, history shows that Muslims are not the only group willing to commit suicide for their cause.

I have indeed speculated on the possibility that the hijackers escaped the planes using a type of HAHO/HALO maneuver used by Navy SEALS and other commando units. I agree it seems quite implausible; but no one has shown me that it would have been impossible. I think it should be investigated as a possibility, while recognizing the most likely occurrence was that the hijackers went willingly to their deaths after successfully framing their Muslim enemies.

"I also wondered why, if the corporate media had falsely claimed that some of the families had reported receiving cell phone calls, the Internet carries no stories about complaints from these relatives published in local papers."

Think about it, would the relatives who received the calls really care if the calls are portrayed as cell phone calls when they were really airphone calls? As I pointed out in my Blog, most of them probably had no idea what kind of phone was being used by their desperate loved one, and couldn't have cared less. In addition, and again as I pointed out in the blog, back in 2001 many folks considered cell phones and seatback airphones as basically the same thing.

In any event, hardly anyone is aware of the crucial importance of what kind of phones were reportedly used from the planes. Most victims' relatives are probably only aware that there's a "truth movement" out there that suggests that they were "duped," that the calls they received were faked by voice-morphers. For that they probably despise us profoundly, and thus have no interest in helping us with our debate. Can you blame them?

Griffin writes:

"The "Cell Phone Myth" The central target of Kornkven's critique is what he calls the Cell Phone Myth, which he defines in his Comment as "the idea, advocated by Griffin, that the majority of calls were made on cell phones." However, I do not believe that there were any cell phone calls from the planes."

I am not as confused as you think I am, David. I am well aware that you believe no real phone calls were made from the planes. For those unfamiliar with this debate, let me summarize who believes what:

Media: Presents phone calls as being genuine, made mostly from cell phones on the planes.

David Ray Griffin: Correctly points out that cell phone calls were mostly impossible from the altitudes of the planes. Therefore concludes that the calls were faked, possibly using voice-morphing techniques.

Kornkven: Believes that calls were indeed genuine, portraying events on the plane that often contradict the official story. Nearly all calls were made on GTE airphones, which of course are functional on the three flights that had them. Suspects that a disinformation campaign was waged within the controlled media to portray phone calls as having been made on cell phone calls, thus successfully diverting attention of truth activists away from vital information contained on authentic calls.

-Andy Kornkven

I think this is an

I think this is an interesting debate -- glad to see Andrew's responses here too -- but I'm not sure why it is on the front page. Do we need the public to see the details of the cell phone debate amongst researchers? I guess if I felt there was significant threat to the work of 9/11 activists by Andrew's work, I would support a wide promotion of exposing that. I don't. I think he's basically careful and deliberate, regardless of whether anyone agrees with him. I happen to.

I'm a little surprised to see this on the week of the Anniversary, although it may have come about coincidentally at this time. To me, this is an internal debate amongst researchers and should remain in a protected space so that people feel comfortable in responding and not in a public spotlight.

What we put forth to newbies is vital

WE can either turn them on to the truth or off. It is great when you come across people that are willing to look over all the info and still feel there is plenty of scientifiaccly proven evidence to prove our case amongst other theories we are still working on to support us. But, we cannot count on that. So yes, it does worry me to some degree when I see these working theories coming out right now--at a time that newbies may be researching the topic of 911. This week is vital to new supporters of the truth and we just want to put the best most undeniable facts out there---not our effoerts at answering the million annomilies of that day and leading up to and after. However, I do respect DRG efforts and do not ask that he stop his persuit of seeking answers.

Unfortuantely, it is tough trying to get newbies to the table in the first place, so we just must try to give them the most compelling evidence first and go from there. But, I do not think we should disrespect or attack those that have done so much for this movement. The fact is, DRG is one of the TOP researchers for the truth and we owe him a lot. Just because it may be a hard pill for newbies to swallow, his research is important. So, we are on a fine line at this time. We must continue to aswer questions but definately have to use this week and month to get out the concrete evidence we have and get it out there in a major way.

Sorry for rambling!

no

I feel both of you are completely wrong.

If I had sensed that there was no internal dialogue within the 9/11 Truth movement and that you were simply holding to some "position," I would have dismissed this as garbage back in late 2007 when I first began to pursue it.

This is the internet. I can go and find all types of things that make 9/11 Truth look foolish. I actually posted one of those things in this thread earlier, the "Hi Mom, this is Mark Bingham" story from DRG and others. I can go to the JREF forum, I can go to the screwloosechange site, I can go to a hundred other debunking sites. In the face of all that, you want to put forth some monolithic position, free from real debate, where you are viewed as the true believers and the debunkers are the ones asking questions and pointing out inconsistencies?

I believe any phone calls made from planes on 9/11 were bogus

and/or were made by the individuals thinking they were participating in some sort of drill. (Remember, there were numerous war games going on, and many of the calls seem as if someone was reading from a script.)

"Shoestring" provided a fine synopsis of the alleged phone calls in this thread of 7/5/08: http://www.911blogger.com/node/16498

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You can vote this down too, but I forgot to mention that since I

don't believe that Osama's flunkies were box-cutting pilots & flying airliners, all phone calls purporting this are extremely fishy, to say the least.

Furthermore, virtually all phone lines (including landlines) were jammed with panic calls after the second tower was struck. So how all these cell calls or even airphone calls could get through is beyond me.

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Cell Phone Calls

Andy Kornkven writes, "Think about it, would the relatives who received the calls really care if the calls are portrayed as cell phone calls when they were really airphone calls?"

I think this is probably true. However, there might be some exceptions. Lorne Lyles, who supposedly received a cell phone call from his wife, CeeCee Lyles stated,

"I looked at the caller ID, and noticed that it was a call, and it was from her cell phone. And I'm like, OK, wait a minute. How can she call me from on the plane from a cell phone, because cell phones don't work on a plane? That's what I'm thinking."

Or maybe the plane was at a low enough altitude for the call to be connected around 9:51AM or so.

Deena Burnett, the wife of Tom Burnett, supposedly received four cell phone calls from him. She wrote in her book

"I didn't understand how he could be calling me on his cell phone from the air."

I believe that the FBI only lists the calls coming from Ed Felt and CeeCee Lyles as cell phone calls.

DRG

I love David Ray Griffin's sharp as a tack philosophical logic.

David Ray Griffin - Radio

Thursday June 12, 2008

Peter B Collins interviews Dr. David Ray Griffin about his newest book 9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press.

http://www.radiodujour.com/people/griffin_david_ray/

Voice morphing?

I find it almost impossible to believe that family members could have been fooled, not to mention the complexity of such an op. Here is a speculative idea: What if the planes were rigged with prototype cellphone communication equipment which enabled the calls to go through.