Planes HEARD at the World Trade Center

Note: This probably should have been a blog instead of a story. The views expressed herein are solely those of GeorgeWashington, and not of 911Blogger.

In order to test the no-plane hypothesis that CGI imagery generated fake video images of planes crashing into the Twin Towers on 9/11, it would be useful to analyze the number of eyewitness (earwitness) reports that they HEARD the planes.

My theory is that if enough witnesses heard planes, then CGI would be highly unlikely, since that would not account for the sounds of planes (especially if witnesses heard planes from multiple locations).

The following Google search (i.e. using the search terms 9/11 heard plane "world trade center") yields 55 pages worth of results.

Anyone want to divide this up and find the relevent quotes? Let's figure out whether the acoustical evidence refutes or supports the no-plane theory.

Become a part of history. Do some original research, and help be a part of a team which tests this theory.

Alternative searches could use the words "Twin Towers", "South Tower", "North Tower", "WTC", "1" and "2" instead of "world trade center"

I'm all for the MIHOP theory

I'm all for the MIHOP theory but this is a little too much.

It's deliberately too much,

It's deliberately too much, "no planes" etc is a smear campaign on 911truth, that or sheer idiocy.

Will you PLEASE give it a rest

Some folks are making a concerted effort to find evidence that will either confirm or negate a hypothesis.

That clip is of the second

That clip is of the second hit, not the first. The guy says something about glass being all over, or words to that effect. Why would he be talking about glass being strewn about if neither tower had been hit yet?

Ditch the 'No Planes' Nonsense

Will everyone please stop wasting your time with no planes. EVen if they were CGI, peddling the no planes theory will get you NOWHERE. Even the most open-minded 9/11 truth virgin will laugh at you if you try to peddle that crap. Stick to whats one the record: NORAD non-response, war games, WTC7, molten steel, Sibel Edmonds, PNAC, Northwoods, bin Laden/FBI Poster, etc.

You have to keep it to things you can find an official document for. True or not, no planes is a waste of time.

If you have time to kill, look up the reports of aircraft carriers off the east coast or the statement by one of the victims that she was the only family member out of all the people on the plane.

i saw and heard the first

i saw and heard the first plane as it passed over my head. i also agree that spending time refuting/responding to the no planes theory is a waste of time.

thank you

International Truth Movement

Maybe there was a plane

Maybe there was a plane that didn't hit the buildings; the plane that the news guy described ("definitely not a passenger jet") that flew by at a low altitude near the time that a detonation went off or missile hit the tower. Heck, maybe it even fired the missile as it passed close by.

But that being said, people who really want 9/11 truth to go mainstream should forget No Planes until an investigation goes that way - everyone who really is for the truth should get together behind one single piece of solid fact, say WTC7, and push, push, push until the questions get asked of Bush on live TV. It would be funny to see the look on his face.

But that being said, more than half the US knows there was a conspiracy to kill JFK and cover it up - and the perpetrators got away with that, so far! Now half the population (on MSNBC's poll) knows there is evidence for government complicity in 9/11. The only thing that can make it go differently than JFK is Congress and candidates like Lt Col Bowman and the rest of the 9/11 truth candidates. Well maybe they won't make a difference in corrupt congress but it's worth a shot.

Stop peddling in this "no plane theory" disinformation

IMMEDIATELY. Because of these NPT morons, we are being discredited in the MSM causing many to be driven away from the 9/11 truth.

WE MUST BAN THESE UNEDUCATED NPT disinfo artists before they destroy this 9/11 truth movement further. If you genuinely care about 9/11 truth, and are not just a moronic person who loves conspiracy theories "just for the FUN of it", you know that this is the best action we must take in order to move forward and improve our credibility.

Stop giving attention to the "no plane theory" disinfo agents like Nico Haupt, Morgan Reynolds, Shayler, killtown, CB_Brooklyn, webfairy, Holmgren, and others who are sabotaging this movement, either by sheer stupidity or intentionally.

Here's One


I passed the chapel, crossed Broadway and had just started up Ann Street when I heard the unmistakable sound of a low flying jet followed by a horrible explosion. People on the street thought it was a bomb, but I was certain it was a plane.


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

Firehouse: Were you just

Firehouse: Were you just getting off or just coming in?

Hayden: I was continuing on. I worked the night before. I was in my office when I heard a plane coming in low.

Completely Irrelevant...

But I thought I'd add it anyway...


Were looking at the Twin towers when we saw the first plane. I commented to Lisa that I thought the plane was flying pretty low. Then it went straight into the building. The sound of the impact was like a sonic boom. Lisa said that it must of been that the pilot had a heart attack.


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

I went inside - thinking it

I went inside - thinking it was over and I should get out of the way of the rescue workers who were quickly assembling. Just then, the second plane came screaming overhead and into Tower 2. I thought it was going to hit my building.

Here's One...


Tom Flynn, a CBS News producer, was reading the morning paper on his deck in the West Village when “a plane went over the trees in my garden. It was low, it was loud, and it was determined.


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

And here is a list of

GeorgeWash seems to be the best buddy of Prof.Jones,
jumping in, while Jones is still chickening out to respond on 9/11 TV Fakery : -)

And here below is a list of people, who didn't see or hear anything, starting with some updates not at this link yet.

Don't forget also the "white elephant plane", also witnessed by Diane Saywer, which passed the crime scene at time of second hit.

"...about 20 minutes after the first explosion, a huge fireball erupted out of the South tower, about 2 thirds of the way up. People screamed on the roofs around me, where everybody was beginning to gather. Most memorable is the bright bright orange of that explosion, and also the crispness of it; it's a quality difficult to describe--it's the quality of NOT seeing it on television, at a much higher resolution and in the outdoors, under a clear sky. The boom came later.
It was difficult to know what had just happened. I already knew from the radio that the first explosion had been caused by a plane. Was the second caused by a news helicopter accident? The plane that caused this second explosion had in fact come from behind the tower, so from my vantage point I had not seen it.

"...As I was the only security guy on sight I wasn't able to leave right away. Due to the angle of the buildings I never saw the second plane hit, but could clearly see the results..."

"...I have witnessed a horrible history. I was supposed to go to NJ for a
seminar. I was on the BQE bridge going into Chinatown, Manhattan, when I saw
an explosion at exactly 8:48am on the first Twin Tower. The radio said that
it was a plane accident. I immediately called my sister in NJ, who normally
has to get to the World Trade Center station (she works for the Mayor's
office, 4 blocks away from WTC). I told her that there has been an accident
and told her to avoid that station. She said that my brother will drive her
to Manhattan instead. I then placed another phone call telling
my best friend to stay away from the area. My friend has jury duty and the

Court is 3 blocks away. Suddenly, I saw a second explosion but did not see
the plane.

(NOTE: BQE Bridge is local slang for Brooklyn Queens Express running over
the Williamsborough Bridhe)

"...We all looked up at the WTC to see one tower on fire. There was a ring
of fire encircling the building one floor...near the top. The floors above
the ring were enshrouded in thick black upwardly rising waves. Every second
or two the fire crept lower--floor by floor---dripping like wax down a

The thought of those people...they're being incinerated..there's no way to
control that fire. Then a huge fireball--monstrous in size--shot out and
up---like some horribly visible dragon's breath.(this was the fireball from
the impact of the second jet--I didn't realize this until after viewing the
footage of the attack)..."

"...Then out of nowhere came this noise. This loud, high-pitched roar that
seemed to come from all over, but from nowhere in particular. AND THE SECOND
TOWER JUST EXPLODED. It became amazingly obvious to anyone there that what
we all had hoped was a terrible accident was actually an overt act of
THE TIME. I have no recollection of pushing the button, hitting the shutter,
making the picture that appeared on Page 2 of the Daily News the next day, a
picture that was taken milliseconds after the second plane hit that tower..."

... Gemma McDonald, Houston, Texas: On the morning of September 11. I was
getting ready to go to school, when the news station broke in with breaking
news. They said a plane had hit the world trade center. They were in the
middle of broadcasting that story live, whenever a big fireball appeared out
of the other tower. In order to see what hit the tower. They had to replay
the tape in slow motion. We didn't know what had happened because we didn't
see the plane, because it was so fast. Whenever I did figure out what
happened I got this weird feeling across my body that I can't describe..."

"...stood there watching the coverage in the airport until my flight was called.
I saw the explosion in the second tower and thought it was because of the
first tower burning as I didn't see the plane hit. My flight was called
about 9:20 and I boarded the plane, we all sat there until about 9:35 when
the pilot announced taht all flights were cancelled. After I got of the
plane I went back to the TV and saw what was going on.."

Hispano amateur cameraman, who didn't see any object hitting south tower,
while filming both towers:
Compare with same geograpical position of towers aT Rosalee's site
(Antenna is in the back of second= north tower)
"...When I was back in the roof I saw
just before my eyes the explosion on Tower 2.
I didn't see the plane, nor did any of the other
guys on the roof. We speculated for a few
minutes. The only thing we could imagine was
on of the wings of the first plane hitting the
other tower and provoking the explosion, but
that was very unlikely...."

From an amateur camera clip, camera positioned on both towers:
"...we just saw another explosion (TV comment)...."
Person 1 in room: "...Another explosion Kate..."
Kate: "...i know, i know..." (noone of both refered to any plane)

Don Dahler vs. ABC
...i didn't see any plane going in...that...that's just exploded...i...
We just saw another plane coming in from the side.
You did?? I...that was ..was...out of my view...
That was a second explosion.
You can see the plane come in just from the right hand side of the screen...
(=> Dahler's witness report 'overruled' by a TV monitor)

Witness Reporter Winston on NBC, which had same synched W-ABC clip:
the "building is exploding right now"
The studio host doesn't even see his monitor where the same W-ABC footage
shows same black flying object vanishing behind first tower, then followed by explosion and fireball (no sound).
The studio host agrees with street reporter (who didn't report any incoming 'plane', that this explosion must have been forced from 'parts of the first plane..."

Witness: NO second plane, it was a bomb....
FOX clip
Reporter Rick Leventhal is whisking witness away: "we heard about tv reports..."

Pilot Witness:
"... I saw a flash and fireball from the top of the World Trade Center.
....Due to the angle and altitude of our flight, I have sometimes experienced the optical illusion of something appearing to hit a building.
We then flew south to the Battery to see if whatever had hit it had gone out the other side. We saw heavy damage on the south side of Tower 1, but saw nothing of substance on the ground or on Tower 2, so we decided to go back north again, all the while just on the water's edge on the Manhattan side at about 900 feet. Ninety seconds after leaving the Battery, in the spot where we had just been looking, the second plane hit the second tower. We never saw the plane, but I could see the flash of the impact from behind us.

12) More amateur tapes showing no planes at 2nd attack (06/02)
Dialogue between guy and his girlfriend:

Man: "**k. What was that?

Woman: "I don't know"
Man: "..they're f**in bombing it...
Must have been a rocket or something.."

13) Two dudes do not catch any plane

tower 1 on fire only filmed by amateur and his buddy, then unfortunately shortly edited and started filming again...

"...oh my god..." (amateur camera continues filming after 2nd attack on ST, but no comment on any plane....!!)

dialogue of two dudes continues:

guy 1:
"...that must have been a fukin terrorist attack. Probably that just explode.. that doesn't make any sense, that has...

interrupted by guy 2:
"...How did THAT ONE just catch on fire man?... see this stuff is falling out...

14)Bird "sees" no plane (check out blog below)

Amateur Footage with no plane in it while filming fireball:
all direct video links here:

Saturday, August 05, 2006
Another amateur footage shows no plane hit South Tower (08/05)

Saturday, August 05, 2006
Compare with yet another amateur video, same perspective, explosion, no plane

The "no-plane" bird (07/13)
(now also vlogged at 911CGIwatch.blogspot)

May Archives
Wednesday, May 31, 2006
More amateur tapes showing no planes at 2nd attack (06/02)

May 1, 2006
Two dudes do not catch any plane

March 5, 2006
Dahler doesn't see or hear any plane at the South Tower

February 2, 2006
Amateur Video of 2nd hit without any clear plane

9/11 CGI: FOX vs CNN (06/28)
Amateur Vid of couple not seeing any plane

and here is one satire fake how can easily do the opposite:
WTC 7 "hit" by a "plane":

i'm sorry but if people

i'm sorry but if people didn't HEAR or SEE anything....

then they are NOT witnesses (ear or eye), they are just people who were interviewed. these "reports" can be thrown out as bait and switch.

here is control tower who didn't see or hear any plane from the crash last week (which in Nico's world means there was no plane crshed which killed 50 people)

"He didn't see the plane turn down a runway too short for it, try to take off and then crash in flames that killing 49 of the 50 people aboard."

here is an article of a glider who didn't see a jet before it crashed into him, therefore there wasn't a jet.

"Glider pilot Akihiro Hirao said he didn't see the jet that tore his wing off and sent his craft into a spin, according to Jim Braswell, airport manager at Minden-Tahoe Airport."

take a look at this one.

this man says he didn't see people jumping out of window, didn't see a plane hit the towers and didnt see the 2nd bulding collapse, therefore....

no one jumped out of windows, no plane hit the towers and the building did not collapse...because this man didn't see any of it.

LOL, great post!

LOL, great post!

" one jumped out of

" one jumped out of windows, no plane hit the towers and the building did not collapse.."

There was no CGI of jumpers or the collapse. Both was real.
No-Plane witnesses count like Don Dahler, because he was in front of the tower, many others as well.

Also fascinating how you still ignore the passing "white elephant plane " :)

Nico wrote

"There was no CGI of jumpers or the collapse. Both was real."

Nico, I read some where that, according to the 911eyewitness film, the North Tower antenna does not sink into the tower like shown on TV, but instead vaporizes into steel powder. Could this mean parts of the collapses were CGI too?

this type of arguement would

this type of arguement would be purely speculative, and not based on logistical reasoning.. you cant say that because A is not true it must mean that B is true, that type of reasoning is only based on two given possibilites, and relies more on perception than on provable fact.

an example.. charlie didn't shoot the sheriff, so clarke must have.. it just doesn't work that way.. you have to have proof to support any arguement, you can't just say that because of A then B must be true..

asside from that, if a given perception is that everything is fake or doctored, then you can believe in whatever you wish to believe, that does not make it provable, it is merely an opinion, which of course you are more than welcome to have.

Great idea

If posters could clearly identify the witness, source, and whether the reference is to the first or second strike, this could be used as an effective archive.

yep, bring it on :)

yep, bring it on :)

My list about "2nd" no-plane witnesses is already longer than from the planehuggers - :)


Having said that...

It's clear from the following video of the firemen looking around to determine where the plane is coming from, that they obviously heard something.

I think the CGI theory is a bit out there, but I am a truth seeker so I'll consider anything that is physically possible. Based on the limited research I've done on the subject, it appears that it may be physically possible to create the CGI of planes on video.

Along the same lines, it would also be physically possible to fake the audio of a plane flying low over a city. Yes this could be done on a massive scale. It wouldn't be easy, but sound waves could be directed or dispersed in a manner to make it physically possible to make people think they are hearing a low flying plane. So simply looking to proove that people heard a plane does not necessarily disprove the no-planes theory.

What is interesting to note from the video of the firemen, is that it's obvious that they hear something. What is not so obvious is whether or not they actually SEE the plane. The one fireman looks up to see where the sound is coming from, then he looks back down as if its no big deal for a commercial jet to be flying so low over lower Manhattan. Either that or he did not see it.

Let me be clear, I am NOT no-planer. I am however a truth seeker. I put nothing past this government. NOTHING!

"...It's clear from the

"...It's clear from the following video of the firemen looking around to determine where the plane is coming from, that they obviously heard something...."

That is about the 1st hit, not the second.
That video did not include a CGI, but an unidentified military device.
Many witnesses, including the NYPD called it a "missile".
More on that at

This has nothing to do with the TV Fakery of the second hit, but thanks for your interest in this topic -:)

Why would they fake the 2nd,

Why would they fake the 2nd, but not the 1st hit?

If they were going to fake any at all, why not the 1st because that's the one no body is expecting?

The answer is that for the first hit--

they could fly anything, such as a missile or non-commercial plane, into the tower and no one would know better. For the second hit, too many people were looking and they would notice an unusual plane. So they used fakery.

But the other key point is that a plane won't leave a cut-out shape of itself in a tower like that. It's trickery to MAKE you think a plane hit there, but in fact the physics are wrong.

Chris, with the technology

Chris, with the technology our government has, and with the people in it, I agree. No one should put anything past this government. The wilder the idea, the more the people won't believe it.

No-plane theories

Nico, you are probably already aware that the world seems far different to you than to others. Maybe, just perhaps, it is not you who is sole person alive who is able to interpret facts, see through the haze of interwoven deceptions, and reason clearly. You have a serious condition, and it could be schizophrenia. Please get some help, as you are certainly no saviour to the 9/11 Truth movement without being grounded in reality. You are being held up as an example of the lunatic fringe, which unfortunately, the 9/11 Truth movement collects like free electrons. BTW, I'm MIHOP all the way.

Some symptoms, and this is not a barbed assault, I'm just trying to be helpful.


Delusions are strange beliefs that are not based on reality, and are not explained by a person's usual cultural beliefs, such as religious. Delusions may take on different themes. For example, people suffering from paranoid-type symptoms (roughly 1/3 of people with schizophrenia) often have delusions that they are persecuted or plotted against, or false and irrational beliefs that they are being cheated, harassed, poisoned or conspired against. These people often believe that a member of their family or someone close to them is making them happen. Delusions of grandeur, in which a person believes he or she is a famous or important person, may also occur in schizophrenia.

Sometimes the delusions experienced by people with schizophrenia are quite bizarre; for instance, believing that a neighbour is controlling their behaviour with magnetic waves; that people on television are directing special messages to them; or that their thoughts are being broadcast aloud to others. A person experiencing delusions may try to keep them secret, knowing that others would not understand. Other individuals are gradually overwhelmed and begin to act strangely according to the content of the delusional explanations.

"...You have a serious

"...You have a serious condition, and it could be schizophrenia. ..."

I'm getting bored from these kind of attacks.
You need a reality check, you are a poor victim of the media matrix
and obviously played too much X-BOX :)

...btw, PNAC- Charles Krauthammer worked already years ago on the idea to declare the whole 9/11 truth movement as schizophrenic.
You're behind the curve.
Total Immersions Augmented Reality Demo

You're probably bored of

You're probably bored of these kinds of *suggestions* because you hear them all of the time. A pattern, Nico? Luckily, you're the bright light that guides all things, and we can rely on your steadfast leadership and discerning eye for bullshit. Are we saved yet?

Behind the curve? Right. You're a deeply troubled person, and you should just stop this nonsense and check yourself into a mental hospital. It's either now, or be committed by someone later. We've suffered through this enough, you should make some CGI of yourself disappearing now.

I don't play X-box, but I help make the games sometimes.

Good luck,
S. you're saying that the you're saying that the following persons who are supportive of the topic, are "mentally ill"? :

9/11 Truth Speakers like 'Candidate' Craig Hill, Ian McFerran (UK 9/11 Truth Movement), Jimmy Walter, Rev H Thorpe Saxton, Lenny Bloom, Dennis Morrisseau (9/11 Truth Candidate), Ralph Charles Whitley, Sr.(decorated American Veteran of One), Thomas J Mattingly (McClendon Group/National Press Club DC), David Shayler (ex-MI5), plus ex-9/11 Scholar Morgan Reynolds, 9/11 scholar Judy Cunningham and 15 other scholars who signed our petition on that matter:

Stevan Douglas Looney (Attorney), Ray "Titus" Sanborn (SA), Rick Siegel, Steven E. Jones, Michael Morrissey (University of Kassel, Germany), Brian Duncan (Fire Protection Engineering), Judy Wood, Brian Vernon, Alexander Dent, Brad Mayeux, Veronica Chapman, Andrew Johnson, Rick Rajter, Cathy Garger and Andrew Lowe Watson

Plus a growing support at, with bloggers like Shep, KRobjoe, James Ha, CB_Brooklyn, Spooked, Peggy Carter, Killtown etc etc...

So they're all mentally ill?

I think the only "games" you make are fantasy adventures
Get a free ticket at Jurassic Park. You really need it :)

Its either ill or your an

Its either ill or your an agent. There is no third option.

yeah, we're ALL agents. I'm sure that is what

comforts you.

In fact, the smart and experienced 9/11 researchers are deeply suspicious of the plane story.

you label Steven Jones as

you label Steven Jones as 'supportive of the topic', you know that to be incorrect, but yet he is repeatedly included in these lists because he signed a petition to support a paper written on the subject, he has openly stated he completely disagrees.

this is disengenuous, and i personally have pointed this out on 3 seperate ocasions whereby someone who openly disagrees is listed as supporting your opinions. this is misinformation and should be clarified in your talking points.

Nico - Man, you're even

Nico -

Man, you're even worse off than I thought. Remember, the subject line of my first comment was "no-plane theories"? I said I was MIHOP. Remember? What a pathetic deflection of my point.

You go miles out of your way to promote an incredibly stupid idea, and when someone calls you out, you retreat back to the supposed sanctuary of a movement that wants nothing to do with you. A movement that you yourself attack regularly as being delusional and incapable of realizing this absurd "reality" that consumes your tortured mind.

Nico, only a tiny minority of even the most ardent supporters of 9/11 Truth believe what you believe. Most of them are either very impressionable, way to young, way too old, or mentally unstable. You are one sorry, sorry individual, and that's a shame.

BTW, as for fantasy, it would appear to those of us who don't need to use Oreo boxes to demonstrate their points can agree on one thing. You're a loose screw, Nico. You embarrass us. Got thorazine?

thank you for this GW, if

thank you for this GW, if you havent noticed, ive been trying to get the "no-planers" to explain this one away for me. the best they can do is provide about 3 or 4 people that didnt hear a plane(as opposed to the hundreds that did) or they say that a plane did a "fly-by" but didnt hit the towers. right........

"...provide about 3 or 4

"...provide about 3 or 4 people that didnt hear a plane..."

That's a lie. The list above is longer than a dozen.

wow, you got 14 people whos

wow, you got 14 people whos statements you could twist to fit your agenda? wow. that proves nothing. wow. you disgust me.

makes the movement look ridiculous

worst disinfo going, and not worthy of dignifying with any sort of response. please leave it alone.

Check this guy's reaction;

He looks up and to his right as you hear the plane come in and strike the building. "Internal explosives" as Nico believes, could not have generated the sound of roaring jet engines, as if we didn’t know already. It’s as if as soon as the "pod" was vanquished, "no planes CGI hologram fakery" was quickly pushed in disinfo stage right.

"No planes" is perhaps one of the most disrespectful things I've ever encountered in relation to 911. Not because of it's obvious craziness, but because the people pushing it don't seem to give a crap about the fact that their trivialising people's deaths. Even if everyone on board those planes were already dead, when those things collided with the Towers people died in those explosions. Yet someone like Nico will play the footage over and over again trying to point out imaginary "fakery", with what seems to be zero compassion or awareness. It's not like JFK's disturbing assassination footage, were at least the analysts have a case to make, or vital and valid analysis of the collapse of the Towers and WTC7. And it's not going to matter how many times Nico etc are shown for fools, they'll carry on no doubt almost as if their paid to do so. I’m sick of these clowns!

"...could not have generated

"...could not have generated the sound of roaring jet engines..."

And also DemBruce is still spreading disinfo.
BOTH only live available footage from the second hit (WABC7, FOX5) did NOT include any sound in it.
It was also both filmed from 6-8 miles away but deceived the audience with a zoom, that it was allegedly filmed from a closer distance.
But where was then the detail of the plane? WESCAM wouldn't film this lousy silhouette crap.

See list of killtown at:

The producers of the few NON-live footage clips, who actually provided alleged "engine sound" had enough time to soundtrack them.
The video with the blue-t shirt guy also has no plane in it, just the explosion.

No you total moron, it's got

No you total moron, it's got a steadily increasing sound of a jet engine. I would tell you to get a clue, but I seriously don't think you know how.

Please stop feeding the

Please stop feeding the no-brainers!

Dem is still lying. The ABC7

Dem is still lying.
The ABC7 and FOX 5 had only studio sound in it, no sound of any plane or even the explosion.

I conclude this blog here was a flop. I count only 2-3 alleged plane witnesses so far (with 2 others don't describing the actual crash) vs. the 16 no-plane witnesses of my list.

Also, the media witnesses win. Both Dahler (ABC) and Mitchell (CNN) argued with their studio, that they only saw or heard the explosion, but didn't see any plane going in.

That's backed up also with 3-4 unedited amateur footage which also doesn't have any plane in it, also opposing alleged incoming simulated flight paths of MSM footage.

The witnesses are useless. I rarely use them for my argument as well. What counts is the clear evidence on TV Fakery and the white plane passing the crime scene.

You lost. Nothing to debunk. And MSM didn't damage anything regarding that topic as well.

You're an orwellian matrix slave.

I'm going to share an experience...

I had today at work.

We were having a company lunch to celebrate the launch of something new. All of us were sitting around the conference table eating lunch. Someone brought up today's article on MSNBC.

"Hey guys... did you see the article about Jon and his friends on MSNBC today?"

Because MSNBC SO "cleverly" put mention of Nico and Morgan at the end of the article, it was the most prevalent thing on this person's mind.

"They actually think no planes hit the towers on 9/11."

People around the table had a group giggle, and I got up, and walked out to have a cigarette.

Nico, CB_Brooklyn, BrianV, Killtown, Morgan Reynolds, and every other no-planer out there...

Your "research" embarrasses us. It makes people think we are an insane group of people.

Please refrain from promoting these theories. They are NOT doing anyone ANY good.


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

Jon wrote:

Jon wrote:
"..Your "research" embarrasses us. It makes people think we are an insane group of people..."

What about this line at WP?

"...Some days the 9/11 truth movement resembles an Italian coalition government -- dissolution is a certainty..."

Does that look good for this movement?
Talk with Fetzer/Jones. They're running this movement, not me.
Well, i forgot. Like Jon Gold, they're both didn't do any own 9/11 research by themselves and don't know what they're talking about.

Jones can be lucky, coz he's possibly still on the Los Alamos payroll and laughing his a** off...

No research?

I have a site FULL of research. I have a disk labeled, "9/11 Research". What are you talking about?


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

...but nothing is based on

...but nothing is based on Jon Gold -;


Are you talking about? I don't understand what you're saying. That I've never found information no one else has?


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

Apparently yes. But let me

Apparently yes.
But let me help you out on the deeper context:

Research is often described as an active, diligent, and systematic process of inquiry aimed at discovering, interpreting, and revising facts.

This intellectual investigation produces a greater understanding of events, behaviors, or theories, and makes practical applications through laws and theories.

The term research is also used to describe a collection of information about a particular subject, and is usually associated with science and the scientific method.

The word research derives from Middle French; its literal meaning is 'to investigate thoroughly'.

Ok Nico...

I've never done any of that regarding 9/11... all of the information I have has been gained through osmosis.


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

Same drivel, nothing

Same drivel, nothing changed.

Can you finally provide some links,
where some research is based on your work??

And where are your witness reports about the second hit?
Again i repeat: "All Witness Reports in NYC contradict each other".
Got it?

We can play that game all over again the whole night, but Gold is not able to provide any evidence and URL at all, not even from his own website.

Here You Go...

:) Ian C. Contributes To The 9/11 Truth Door To Door Project - Video Inside

Getting people's opinions of 9/11 is considered research.

Hat tip to Ian C.

I don't agree with your "all witness reports in NYC contradict each other" statement.

I bet a lot of people can tell a lot of the same stories about what they saw that day. Again, common sense.


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

nico, this is ridiculous

nico, what is the point of all this?

Just say that there weren't any planes. Just say that you have PROOF that there were no planes at WTC. (I think you think this, right?)

Then what?

Our main issue with the 9/11 Truth Movement at this time is to bring more people over to our camp. The research is done. The ground work has been laid. The soul point of the millions of truth seekers out there should to be to continue to show and convince people that 9/11 isn't what they thought it was.

No planes is not the way to do that.

Ease them in. I don't even think controlled demo is a good starting point either. All you have to do is show them that 9/11 isn't what they show us on T.V., then they become hooked and they can look into whatever they want to look into.

But it's the hook that matters at this point in time. Not this no-plane shit. We need more people on our side. I think it's time you drop your arms and actually contribute to this movement.

I assume this kind of

I assume this kind of ignorant attitude also helped the Nazis covering up their crimes against humanity for 1933 -1945

Keep dreaming in your hangout world.
MSM and U.S. Congress have all fake oppositions still under control.

You have to start thinking in bigger dimensions and trashcan your pseudo liberal nonsense, mashed up with orwellian memes.

9/11 TV Fakery is the final holy grail we have, CD already turned into chewing gum investigation with help of NIST, PopMech and U.S. State Department.

The latest i read is that ScrewLoose Change is now as popular in Netherlands as Loose Change, i assume that will soon happen also in the U.S.
Flagwaver parade meets some shills including!

Why do you think skyking doesn't challenge us anymore since months on the TV fakery, instead keeping the CD activists busy?

Why do you think, was the collapse of WTC 7 the last time dozens of times looped on FOX TV?

Where did the traditional evidence of CD go?
It turned into dust and thermite scripted by someone close to Los Alamos and classified weapon research of the 90s.

Why do you think Ruppert is in Venezuela and Schwarz in Hungary?

And you still pray for just some people on the streets during the anniversary? And what do you think will happen then?
Another cute CNN report? So what!

How did you think East Germany stopped to exist, how did the French Revolution happen??

Right after the 9/11 anniversary MSM will most obviously cut the pipes again of this movement for another chewing gum hangout: The U.S. election.

Then right after that for 2007 we have the pending world war between US, Russia and China, already heavily prepared by the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, Goldman Sachs and a bogus russian al quaida front compiled by privatized military and Intelligence.

Once that starts, noone will take care about 9/11 anymore.

You can continue supporting the Matrix, i won't.

And i never sucked up in the last 5 years for any popularity contest.

This is about the absolute evidence and we have the final pieces in our hand. I plan a protest in front of ABC 7 to force them to reveal the names of the unknown camera operators and the pilots. You can blog your breakthrough bias, we're far away from it.

The next fraud will happen on monday when CIA asset Amy Goodman (Ford Fondation) will play Dylan Avery.

The setup is perfect and we're all already scripted to terrorists.

Keep dreaming, you have no clue who's really deceiving this movement...
Volume 76, Number 15 | August 30 -September 5, 2006

"...One 9/11 Truth member, Nico Haupt, believes the conspiracy behind 9/11 extends beyond the government. At the Aug. 6 St. Mark’s meeting, Haupt criticized the mainstream 9/11 Truth movement, saying it has “oppressed” his questions and research.

“I created a science group in 2002, which were working for four years, hard, 24/7, opposed by leaders close to the 9/11 Truth movement,” Haupt told the audience, adding that his science group consists of nine researchers and 600 members.

Can't wait to wear my new

Can't wait to wear my new T-Shirt for this weekend :)

No one cares Nico, please GO

No one cares Nico, please GO AWAY!

DBLS, you are free to "go

DBLS, you are free to "go away" yourself, whenever you like

guys, these posts do little


these posts do little but continue a flame war, so please chill, otherwise these useless posts with no content at all will start disappearing, i just dont see any point in them.

Dude, I really don't like

Dude, I really don't like wasting my time having to tackle these people so I agree. But you've got to understand that what's going on here is between people on one side who are trying to protect this site's, and 911truth's credibility. And people on another side who either don't know what credibility is, or they do and their scum deliberately here to sabotage 911truth and this place.

It really wouldn’t surprise me to learn that the now very desperate perps, gave orders to their operatives to go full pelt with the no-plane disinfo etc. Because that's what we're seeing from Reynolds, maybe Shayler (if that’s actually true) and the individuals pushing that crap here. So seriously dude it’s not infighting because these people aren’t even 911 truth, it’s about protecting credibility.

Interesting, GW, but you're

Interesting, GW, but you're missing an important point: Eyewitnesses can be bought or mistaken. Physical laws cannot change. This was already explained by several scientists. (See my blog posts.) I wonder why Steven Jones won't even address it?

dz, please, please, please

dz, please, please, please BAN THESE DISINFO CLOWNS!!!11111

Stop whining, you're a

Stop whining, you're a pathetic orwellian clown, who couldn't figure out yet, who is manipulating this movement at the top and deceiving you with their memes.

"...One 9/11 Truth member, Nico Haupt, believes the conspiracy behind 9/11 extends beyond the government. At the Aug. 6 St. Mark’s meeting, Haupt criticized the mainstream 9/11 Truth movement, saying it has “oppressed” his questions and research.

“I created a science group in 2002, which were working for four years, hard, 24/7, opposed by leaders close to the 9/11 Truth movement,” Haupt told the audience, adding that his science group consists of nine researchers and 600 members..."

please chill everyone, this

please chill everyone, this is rediculous.

These links were sent to me

by someone from 911Blogger:

As soon as I heard the plane hit, I grabbed my camera and walked out on Greenwich St.
-Nathan Blaney

"I was in my office when I heard a plane coming in low."
-Deputy Fire Chief Peter Hayden

"I was watering some plants on my terrace and enjoying the
unseasonably warm weather when I heard the sound of a plane flying low."
-Geronimo Jones

"They heard a plane."

"Early this morning around 9 am, I heard the sound of a low flying airplane. It was so loud my immediate thought was that it was a terrorist or a plane that would land on our rooftop in Greenwich Village."

As he [James Calcagnini] walked across the courtyard, he looked up to see first tower ablaze and minutes later heard a roar and saw the second plane strike.

Good job GW.

Good job GW.

At least *you work instead of the clowns DemBruce and Jon.

That makes it still 9 vs. my 16 no-plane witnesses.

Again i am pointing out, the fact that all witness accounts already contradict each other,
doesn't help either your or our case.
The accounts, whether pro- or anti planes are nothing worth in front of court, while i can easily prove that the footage was faked.

Give it up.

"...In a telephone interview, Morales defended Haupt’s opinion: “What he thinks is his opinion, but he also makes it clear that he separates opinion from conclusion. He’s not prepared to make a scientific conclusion or at least a quasiscientific conclusion. His strong point, which I tend more to agree with, is that the footage, the various mainstream media footage, seems to have been doctored...”

"......I ask Shayler if it's true he has become a "no planer" ...
"Yes, I believe no planes were involved in 9/11."
"...Watch the footage frame by frame and you will see a cigar-shaped missile hitting the World Trade Center."

"...Nico Haupt,...stands up in St. Mark's Church in the Bowery. He holds aloft two blue Oreos boxes taped to resemble the twin towers. A pen juts out, kind of like a Boeing airplane.
For an hour he's shown videos of planes hitting the towers. If you note the glinting sunlight and angle of wings and you're honest about vectors ..., you'll realize there were no planes .

Truth movement veterans distance themselves from Haupt, who has a bit of a temper. But Reynolds, the former Labor Department economist, also is a "no-planer."
"There were no planes, there were no hijackers," Reynolds insists. "I know, I know, I'm out of the mainstream, but that's the way it is..."

At least *you work instead

At least *you work instead of the clowns DemBruce and Jon.

this does nothing but keep this flame bullshit between you all ongoing, do not continue with this please.

Here's Another One

"Before the first blast, staff on the streets around Trinity heard what to some sounded like military jets carrying out a low flypast before hearing the blast."

Don Dahler vs. Gibson (both

Don Dahler vs. Gibson (both ABC)
...i didn't see any plane going in...that...that's just exploded...i...
We just saw another plane coming in from the side.
You did?? I...that was ..was...out of my view...
That was a second explosion.
You can see the plane come in just from the right hand side of the screen...

(=> Dahler's street witness report 'overruled' by a TV monitor)

Nico is a FOOL

Just because the plane was out of view by someone does not prove it wasn't there! If I go stand in the shade of a tree, does that mean the sun isn't behind it? This is absurd. Nico you're hell bent on trying to prove something that is not did not happen. For the better good of the movement you need to back off and focus on real evidence.

One More

"We had gotten to approximately point C on the picture, walking along the water, when both Rachel and I heard a plane. Looking over the southern tip of Manhatten, we could see the United jet roaring in, just skimming the tops of the buildings. Normally, when you see a jet that close, it is taking off or landing and is moving relatively slowly. This one was at full throttle. I remember yelling something like "What's he doing there?" but it went quickly behind us and was blocked from view by the buildings along the water. We didn't see the impact, but we could hear it and feel it."


"Mar was in the shower and I was working at my desk. I heard a plane, large, slow, and way too low, and then the unmistakable crash. "A plane crashed. I heard it. I'm going out to see". I grabbed my camera and ran out of the house."


"State Superintendent of New York works two miles from the World Trade Center. He testified of his mother’s deliverance from the area when the crash happened. “My mother got off the subway train about 9:00, and the World Trade Center was burning at the top”, recounts Diaz. “The people in the area said that it was a accidental airplane crash, so everyone carried on as usual, buying breakfast, etc. Suddenly, she heard a plane engine coming, and the people starting screaming and running, and she with them. She ran to the park. The plane then went directly into the building."


"LT. BOB LAROCCO, FIREFIGHTER, LADDER 9: We all heard a plane that sounded like it was in trouble. So everyone stopped what they were doing. I kind of thought to myself that it was headed toward Newark Airport. I didn't think much of it.

And then I heard a dull thud. I kind of stopped in my tracks and stopped for a second, and said, nah. People started running out of the stores on Second Avenue there. They were saying, oh, God, oh, God, a plane just crashed into the World Trade Center."


stopped after page 3 of this search:*+plane%22+%22world...

If someone can keep on going and post quotes...

I actually think there was a plane that FLEW-BY

which is what all the witnesses saw-- but something else happened to the tower.

In fact, the live videos of ABC and FOX show a plane flying off past the WTC.

From my own research, linked at my homepage.

The analytical problem is

The analytical problem is how to reconcile two things: physical impossibility with credible eyewitness testimony. Of course the conventional government/media story is impossible: no aluminum airliner could crash into the towers, crumple not one bit and disappear. Yet we have the fact that many witnesses swear they saw such a magic act that morning, especially the alleged crash at the south tower.

these people said it was

these people said it was dead quiet..

A Critical Plea To Dylan Avery, And A Call To Action

Goddamnit, this kind of disinfo has got to stop!!! GW, thank you for soundly refuting this drivel for the umpteenth time. In the future, though, please spend your time on more worthwhile endeavors. After all, all the no-planers want is attention. Don't give it to them.

BTW, please check out my latest blog entry at
_______________ A must-see for the uninitiated: this video will awaken them from their long slumber A must-read for believers of the official story: David Ray Griffin administers the red pill

please look more into something before calling it disinfo

LOTS of people said demolition of the WTC was disinfo before it became widely accepted by "truthers".

Countless eyewitnesses...

One cannot discount what countless eyewitnesses saw and heard that day. To claim that the events at the WTC were an elaborate David Copperfield-like forgery is ridiculous, without one iota of sound, scientific proof. People SAW and HEARD the planes, plus there is a great deal of video footage out there which confirms it all. Denial of these facts and these eyewitness reports and the video evidence, is the height of insanity- and the height of irresponsibility, with respect to The Movement. Why not just focus on the known, scientific, irrefutable facts???? I don't get it and I never will. Seeing as all this no-planer crap has surfaced lately with the likes of notable, accredited people like Morgan Reynolds (I never trusted that man) and David Shayler, leads me to no other conclusion that this is very professional disinfo, coordinated by the highest authority of the official storytellers.
_______________ A must-see for the uninitiated: this video will awaken them from their long slumber A must-read for believers of the official story: David Ray Griffin administers the red pill

yeah... this is a big waste

yeah... this is a big waste of time... How bout if we all stopped trying to test theorys and just focus on making the media answer our questions.

funny, i just watched 2

funny, i just watched 2 videos where nico says we cant see any plane.

on the first one ( )you can easily see that there is a cut in the footage just before the hit,

and on the second video ( )the camera is not even looking a the tower before the explosion.

but Nico call it proof that there is no plane.

This guy is totaly dishonest

"My theory is that if enough

"My theory is that if enough witnesses heard planes, then CGI would be highly unlikely, since that would not account for the sounds of planes (especially if witnesses heard planes from multiple locations)."

Hearing or seeing planes does not rule out CGI. Fake videos could have been produced to cover up the fact that something other than a 767 hit the tower.

Yes of course there was an

This is symptomatic of the problem we face --

"As soon as I heard the plane hit, I grabbed my camera and walked out on Greenwich St. -Nathan Blaney"

He did not say he SAW the airplane hitting, he heard the explosion -- which he later heard was a "plane hitting".

There were two in the the skies above manhattan at the time, one did a fly-by the other was probaly heading for the nearby airport.

Drupal Rools. BTW.