Who were those hijackers, anyway? A Telling Story Resurrected

Who were those hijackers, anyway? A Telling Story Resurrected

by Elizabeth Woodworth, September 30, 2007

Abstract: The sole purpose of this short article is to restore to the public domain a highly significant local news story which is no longer available on the Internet. "Fourth Terrorist Suspect May Have Ties to Venice", by staff writers Kimel, Werner, and Crain, appeared in the Sarasota Herald Tribune on Saturday Sept. 22, 2001. It is attached here, in full original print format, showing its source and date. This story should be widely downloaded as contributing evidence for the inevitable new 9/11 investigation.

According to a local news story which has been scrubbed from the Internet, two of the devout fundamentalist hijackers who “hated our freedoms”, were frequently seen to have indulged the seamier side of those freedoms in the small town of Venice, Florida.

The locally researched “Fourth Terrorist Suspect May Have Ties to Venice” (Sarasota Herald Tribune, September 22nd, 2001) is significant for three reasons:

1. Alleged ringleader Mohamed Atta and others were frequently seen in Venice bars and strip clubs;

2. Atta’s presence in Venice, Florida in the spring of 2001 contradicts the FBI Mohamed Atta timeline upon which the 9/11 Commission Report relied; and

3. More curiously, this local news story, which seriously challenges the public understanding of who the hijackers were, has disappeared without a trace from a)the Sarasota Herald Tribune archive at http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?CATEGORY=HELP05&template=ovr2 ; b)the Associated Press archive from which the Prosecutor Kay Nehm aspect of the story was taken. Search under < Kay Nehm > at http://www.aparchive.com/index.aspx and c)the Lexis-Nexis national newspaper database at http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2 .

A woman who put Atta up in her apartment was warned by authorities not to say anything about him, and told Herald-Tribune reporters, “I really can’t discuss anything. I’m afraid I’ll get into trouble.”

The White House-led 9/11 investigation was not called until 451 days after the attacks, and only then under sustained pressure from the impacted families. Until these strange and fundamental anomalies in the Commission’s report are resolved by a new and independent investigation, they will continue to gnaw away until the truth emerges.

(EDIT: here are direct hyperlinks to jpegs.)

Venice1.jpg717.06 KB
Venice2.jpg610.54 KB

"It is attached here, in full original print format.". Ooops !

I think that attachement got left behind. Could that be corrected?
Thank-you !

Oh, there it is, right above. Thanks again !

Found it !!

who were those hijackers, anyway?

there were no hijackers. it was remote control, people.

info in this older AJ interview gives one pause:


Probably involved in the hijack drills...

that were conveniently scheduled to occur at the same time as the "real" 9/11 attacks.

Definately agree on the RC drones, certainly for the twin tower attacks imo.

Best wishes

3 E4B's in the Air - 1

3 E4B's in the Air - 1 confirmed in DC at the time of the Pentagon hit, and immediately after (9:30-40) the 4th remaining E4B went aloft from Ohio.
As others have said, the hijackers were cover stories, perhaps a few actually did board the planes, but no way in hell would a plan of this magnitude be left to people with no real flight experience performing incredible "Military" precise maneuvers on 9/11. No room for error. Especially at the pentagon, it had to be pinpoint precise.
The 9/11 Truth B-Team

something to research

I was checking out the "911myths.com" site, and they tell of a sect that permits Jihadis to behave like "infidels" in infidel countries, in order to carry out their missions.

I have never heard of this sect before. But they seem to have several sources.

"Atta has been associated with a sect called Al Takfir wal Hijra, run by al Quaeda second-in-command Ayman Al-Zawahiri. This is an extreme fundamentalist sect, however...

"A major element of Takfir religious practice is subterfuge. The threat of Takfir is that its cold, heartless killers could easily be the boy or girl next door. Takfir Wal Hijra members are permitted to disregard the injunctions of Islamic law in order to blend into infidel societies.

In other words, Takfirs can have sex with loose women, drink alcohol, eat pork and do whatever else they feel is appropriate to advance their mission...

Mohammed Atta, although puritanical in his behavior, was believed to be Takfiri. He's not the only al Qaeda operative you could point the finger at. Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed went to discos, drank alcohol and dated call girls. Yousef in particular is renowned for being generally unIslamic and non-observant of prayers and fasting. Although no one has suggested openly that Yousef and KSM were Takfiri, it's hardly a stretch"."


This should be investigated. Zawahiri certainly doesn't act in this way himself. Nor does Bin Laden.

It may be possible that they did hijack planes, as advertised, and were allowed to do so. That's the strongest case to be made to date. How did they get into the country? Their visa applications should all have been denied. Many came through Jedda Saudi Arabia, an embassy run by "spooks" according to a former official there.

There is much hard to refute info on the 911myths.com site that some of which could actually help our case.

Some rabid knee jerkers will automatically vote this down, of course.


America, are YOU the problem?

The Secret History of Mohamed Atta

Daniel Hopsicker provides additional information. Search the site, there's alot there.

Nafeez Ahmed argues against this.

The Takfir Paradigm

How to explain this anomaly? Time Magazine reports that intelligence officials claim many al-Qaeda terrorists are “followers of an extremist Islamic ideology called Takfir wal Hijra (Anathema and Exile). That’s bad news: by blending into host communities, Takfiris attempt to avoid suspicion. A French official says they come across as ‘regular, fun-loving guys—but they’d slit your throat or bomb your building in a second.’” Another French official says that the goal of Takfir “is to blend into corrupt societies in order to plot attacks against them better. Members live together, will drink alcohol, eat during Ramadan, become smart dressers and ladies’ men to show just how integrated they are11.”

However, this depiction of al-Qaeda and Takfir wal Hijra is thoroughly inaccurate. Takfir wal Hijra was the title given to a radical Islamic movement known as the Society of Muslims. The latter was founded in Egypt by Muslim Brotherhood member Shukri Mustafa after his release from prison in 1971. The group disintegrated after Mustafa was arrested and executed by the Egyptian government, but some of its followers went on to join other radical groups such as al-Jihad and/or fled to North Africa. Rather than attempting to integrate into modern society to carry out attacks as intelligence officials now claim, Takfiri ideology advocated the very opposite: “As contemporary society was infidel, he argued, Takfir would set up its own alternative community that would work, study and pray together…. Takfir declared that not only the regime but the society itself was infidel and under excommunication. This entailed… a personal withdrawal from society.” Even Takfir’s rival radical Islamic group in Egypt, Jama’at al-Jihad, known as the Society of Struggle, espoused such a harsh perspective of Islamic practice that it advocated as Islam’s top priority “jihad against unbelievers—including ‘Muslims’ who did not observe the religion’s requirements properly”—let alone endorsing in any manner a violation of those requirements12.

So extreme is Takfir’s ideology, that it sees bin Laden as not sufficiently Islamic in his violent approach. The Sunday Times reported a month after 9/11 that Takfir “regards Osama bin Laden as an infidel who has sold out.” The group’s members “have embarked on killing sprees in mosques against fellow Muslims in the belief that a pure Islamic state can be built only if the corrupt elements of the last one are wiped out.” Takfir’s enmity toward al-Qaeda is based on the perception that Osama bin Laden is “excessively liberal.” In 1995, four Takfir members attempted to assassinate bin Laden at his home in Khartoum. Takfiris continue to be “angered” at bin Laden’s leadership of a “compromised jihad.” According to the Times, “Takfir denounces all but those who copy the behaviour of the prophet Muhammad as infidels and promises to kill them.” One senior Sudanese government source confirmed that Takfir “regard [bin Laden] as a sellout… the Takfir think that everything in contemporary Muslim society is corrupt and should be destroyed13.”

Djamel Beghal and Kamel Daoudi—alleged UK-based terrorists arrested in September 2001 for plotting a series of spectacular terrorist assaults on Europe—were both supposed to be members of Takfir wal Hijra. But according to one Algerian in London who knew Beghal, integrating into Western culture by engaging in various acts of debauchery in violation of Islamic tenets was the last thing this alleged Takfiri would ever do: “Believe me, you do not want these people in your country… they will kill anybody, including their own family, if they are caught smoking or drinking14.”

Thus, the new scenario being proposed by Western intelligence officials to explain the patently un-Islamic behavior of the 9/11 hijackers is largely incoherent. Despite claims to the contrary, Takfir wal Hijra is aggressively opposed to al-Qaeda and its strict ideology is fundamentally incommensurate with the prospect of permitting defiance of Islamic rules under any circumstances. Furthermore, al-Qaeda is in turn staunchly opposed to Takfir. Therefore, the anomaly of the 9/11 hijackers persists: They clearly did not possess the conduct of hardened Islamic fundamentalists connected to al-Qaeda. So, who were they?


my illuminated guess!~

mossad agents posing as islamic jihadis...happens all da time. great theater.

on a side note, regarding "24", hidden terrorists and constant states of fear: perhaps sutherland is suffering under the pressure of his role
in this hollywood neocon propaganda drivel

24 may be rampant

24 may be rampant fear-mongering and crap but they did have a false flag attempt by the President and his closest advisor 2 seasons ago. said president ends up in jail so its not all bad! i agree though, the overall feel of the show is annoying in its demonization of muslims and torture justification.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

they piloted their first episode

as "the lone gunman" - remotely controlled planes at the last minute overcome before ramming into the WTC.
"Ha ha - the games on you! and you can't do anything about it"

that was actually an episode

that was actually an episode from the show "The Lone Gunmen"(an X-Files spinoff), not an episode from 24. both are on Rupert Murdoch's Fox Network though. The Lone Gunmen is actually a pretty good show in my opinion, but that pilot episode of drones(almost) hitting the WTC always bothered me:

The Lone Gunmen (pilot episode) - PREDICTS EVENTS OF 9/11

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

right, but same producer, i believe:

one Joel Surnow.

nope, it was basically the

nope, it was basically the same crew from the X-Files, i dont believe Surnow was a part of it. that guy is pure scum though. Surnow goes on about how hes proud to be a "hollywood conservative" and looks at Rush Limbaugh as an authority on current affairs. i know Keifer Sutherland calls himself a "lefty" and has said numerous times that he doesnt agree with the producers politics. doesnt seem to have much of an effect though...


"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

my error, chris!

thanks for settling that confusion. However, did read and save this from a ways back regarding "24":

"...According to the series’ co-writer Joel Surnow the first episode aired in November 2001, shortly after the attack on the World Trade Center in New York on September 11, 2001. However, the show was actually developed and the initial episode shot before the attack occurred.

Only days after the first episode of 24 was aired on Fox, Karl Rove appeared at the infamous November 2001 meeting of Hollywood producers and directors in which the administration called for support from Hollywood for the war on terror. That meeting included representatives from movie and television studios, including the Fox network. Surnow said Fox picked up the show with the enthusiastic support of network owner and media mogul Rupert Murdoch..."


no problem

and thanks for the link, i didnt know all that.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

This is a suspect contribution

The 911myths site is a suspicious 'fake site' thrown up by 'anonymous' agents and so, John, I now find your motivations worth questioning. Do you think the 911 myths site is providing good research? If so, how long have you been studying this issue? Are you new here?

Don't blame 'we the people' (a Garcia move) and don't blame the whole country. I, for one, am tired of this bogus ploy.

The artilces by EW are excellent. She's really doing the job. Must be another professor.

Thanks Elizabeth!

A much more plausible explanation is that the 19 "hijackers"

were dupes, patsies, and/or wannabe gangsters & drug smugglers living the high-life while under the control of the U.S. gov't.

Three Saudis who were among

Three Saudis who were among the last of the Sept. 11 homicide hijackers to enter this country didn't visit a U.S. embassy or consulate to get their visas; they went to a travel agent, where they only submitted a short, two-page form and a photo. The program that made this possible, Visa Express, is still using travel agents in Saudi Arabia to fill this vital role in United States border security.


911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

a national review quote?! are you kidding?

it should have been 'alleged' homicidal highjackers, not
"Three Saudis who were among the last of the Sept. 11 homicide hijackers to enter this country..."

you're quoting from william f. buckley's conservative publication that promotes xenophobia. btw, buckley served (serves) in the CIA. DHS, this is worthless. unfortunately since i replied to it, you won't be able to edit the embarrassment.

So the statement that they

So the statement that they came from Saudi Arabia and used the Saudi Visa Express program is not true? Is that what
you are saying? Would it matter if I cited a different reference?

What exactly are you arguing?

911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info


They want to have it both ways.

Islamo fascists did it, they say. Well if they don't look like Islamo fascists, they must be in disguise. Right? What does it matter anyway? This is all a diversion

We know who did it, Don't waste time. Get them to jail before it gets impossible. 911 was an inside job.

Compliments of virgil's wikipediascanner


"Members of the group are radical Islamists who are not bound by the usual religious constraints. They adopt non-Islamic appearances such as shaving their beard and wearing a tie in order to blend into crowds and make themselves hard to detect even to other Muslims. They can drink alcohol and even eat pork to deceive their enemies. They believe that any means justify the end and, that killing other Muslims can be justified in their cause and that Western society is heathen and it is their duty to destroy it.[1]"

1. ^ "Al Qaeda's New Front" Frontline PBS News, 25 January 2005

From Frontline's script:

NARRATOR: In August, 2001, Ahmed Rabei didn't collect his monthly food parcel. Immediately after the terrorist attack on 9/11, security services came looking for him. They were too late. The man with no passport had abandoned these quarters to travel for the next three years throughout Europe. It's now believed that he had taken on the manner and methods of the Takfir, violent Salafist extremists who came out of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Takfirs are not bound by the usual religious constraints. Rabei cut off his beard. He could now blend into the crowd. Takfirs, who have significantly influenced al Qaeda, believe that any means justify the end, that even other Muslims can be killed in the cause, that this society is heathen and they are the force to destroy it.

JEAN-LOUIS BRUGUIERE, Chief Anti-Terror Judge, France: We have a lot in Europe, many, many cells. Many groups belongs to Takfir or share the values of Takfir— very, very, very radical. And all the members are living look like undercover. They are no Islamic-looking, you know? They have no beards. They have just a tie. They drink alcoholic beverage. They can—


JEAN-LOUIS BRUGUIERE: If necessary, yes, have a sandwich with pork inside is no problem. So the visible signs, it's quite impossible to discover. But they have, you know, two caps, two lives.

This addition, with its cite, first appeared in Wikipedia 02:38, 18 August 2006 and was entered by a user identified only by IP address These are the only two Wikipeda entries from this IP address. The IP address resolves to BellSouth.net, possibly in Miami, FL.


Roland Jacquard, one of the world's leading scholars on Islamic terrorism, says flatly, "Atta was Takfiri."

However, a search of the Institute for Counter-Terrorism, Interdisciplinary Center (IDC) for "Takfir wal-Hijra" returns no results. A search for "Takfir" yeilds only three hits, two are dated 2006 and 2007, and one is not dated. None of the three mentions pork or liquor.

Interestingly, a search of the Institute for Counter-Terrorism, Interdisciplinary Center (IDC) for the term " Takfir wal-Hijra" returns the following:

"No Products Found!"

I hope that someone else catches the irony of this response.

Googling the phrases "Takfir wal Hijra" and "Takfir wal-Hijra" will return signifcantly different results, with the latter returning significantly more hits.

Lastly, A Google News search for ""Takfir wal-Hijra" "al Qaeda"" returns 65 news articles. Not a single one of the articles was published before September 11, 2001.


For what it's worth.

"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

U.S.S. Liberty info.

Good to see the M$M coming around on these things.
New revelations in attack on American spy ship.

"9/11 research is a rabbit-hole of Byzantine complexity full of snares and delusions and peopled with false friends, lunatics, earnest lost souls and a few heroes."
- Jenna Orkin

And your contribution contributed nothing.

"The 911myths site is a suspicious 'fake site' thrown up by 'anonymous' agents"

No. They are named individuals, who take credit. It may be "suspicious", but it is certainly not a "fake site thrown up by anonymous agents."

You have failed to accurately even describe what it is you're complaining about.

" and so, John, I now find your motivations worth questioning."

Of course you do. We wouldn't have it any other way around here in 9/11 land.

My "contribution" started a discussion of the Takfir sect, which I -- and no doubt other readers -- have learned that Nafeez Ahmed has already studied in depth.

I wish people would provide more links to sources so we can research this better.

But, the blanket: you're a suspect agent routine is pretty flabby.

There's an unproven assertion that the "19 hijackers" didn't actually hijack the aircraft. No one, to date, has been able to prove they did, or did not, hijack the aircraft.

Speculation is not proof. Ignorance of the facts is not purity of thought. It's delusion.

It remains quite within the realm of possibility that "Al Qaeda" operatives, or people who believed that they were "Al Qaeda" operatives, hijacked the aircraft and crashed them. It may not be the popular consensus, but it hasn't been disproven.

I find a blind faith and gross ignorance to be "suspect."

That's who I am. Who the hell are you?

Agreed, and well said

I've run into this "Takfir argument" on numerous occasions. It is just one more way this psy-op has been engineered to confuse and obfuscate reality.

I've spoken with about 15 commercial pilots (in person and online) and none of them think that even they could've flown the planes into the Towers and the Pentagon on their first, or even second or third, attempt. That said, we have insufficient evidence to conclude exactly who was on what plane doing what for what reason. This is just one out of thousands of questions that we need new investigations to answer.

Keep up the great work, John.

The truth shall set us free (speculation is a waste of time). Love is the only way forward.

Dov Zakheim and the 9/11

Dov Zakheim and the 9/11 Conspiracy


"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Pods do not a solid case make.

Brian Salter destroys the pod claims.



While "Rabbi Dov" may certainly have a role in the 9/11 crimes, this pod connection is like some cheezy dime store disinformation. Not buying it.

everythings disinfo.......

i didnt post it because of the pods, i posted it because of the Zakheim connection. jesus christ, do you go over all of the links you post and make sure you agree with all information within them 100% before posting them? i give people more credit than you do i guess.........

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Um, yes.... If you don't

Um, yes....

If you don't support it, you shouldn't promote it.

911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

um, so you support National

um, so you support National Review, a well known propaganda outlet for rightwing hackery? you posted a NR link yesterday so i can only assume that you do based on your own standards. so every link you post from here on out will contain information that you agree with 100%? i'll hold you to that. just a tip though, National Review is a piss poor source. i wasnt promoting pods, i dont support pods but if you would actually read(instead of just react) you would see the links are about much more than pods. but hey, your on the disinfo police force right?

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

I doubt it is possible

"It remains quite within the realm of possibility that 'Al Qaeda' operatives, or people who believed that they were 'Al Qaeda' operatives, hijacked the aircraft and crashed them."

After 9/11, several professional pilots tried to hit virtual WTC towers in a flight simulator at the speeds observed on 9/11, with extremely poor results:


Yet people who had never flown a passenger jet before could have succeeded in that - live?

Why not set up a real scientific experiment with some professional pilots trying to hit virtual WTC towers in a flight simulator at the speed reported by the official sources, carefully documenting the experiment?

2) Pilots for 9/11 Truth have calculated that the official NTSB data for flight 175 requires that the plane flew from Trenton to NYC at a speed that was clearly above the maximum speed of a Boeing 767:

"Flight UA 175: An Incredible Journey"

Show "SOMEONE could do it, obviously." by johndoraemi

Just bury information you disagree with: pussies

In addition to several instances of "stolen identities" appearing in the press, the head of the FBI also expressed doubts about the identities of "some of the hijackers."

There is a possibility that skilled pilots were on board those planes. I've already mentioned the Amanda Keller interview where Atta had pilots licenses from several countries, and so he didn't really need lessons.

They could have been trained by the Saudis. Some Saudi royals were linked to the San Diego cell. If they were willing to assist Jihadists, then they may have been willing to train them to fly competently.

I'm not saying this is the only possible scenario, but it is certainly the only time you've read about it here, I'd wager.

This inbreeding that screens out all unpopular ideas, no matter how plausible, is dragging down this movement. This is a thread called "who were these hijackers anyway." Well, 15 of 19 are reported to be Saudis. A number of their identities are not proven.

If the alleged "hijackers"

If the alleged "hijackers" were anywhere near those planes we would have already seen 3 dozen security tapes documenting their arrival and boarding.

If I'm not mistaken, a private security company called ICTS -- owned by an Israeli named Ezra Harel -- was in charge of security for all 911 flights.

Colombo wrote:

"dupes, patsies, and/or wannabe gangsters & drug smugglers living the high-life while under the control of the U.S. gov't."

Indeed. Hopsicker's work leads inexorably to this conclusion. The "hijackers" were no such thing. Although it is theoretically possible that these coke-sniffing party animals transformed overnight into top gun wizards (under the guidance of Allah, perhaps) and flew those planes into the targets, remote control is a far more plausible scenario. More likely Atta and Co. were low-level drug mules in training.

Perhaps we need a "Who is...Dov Zackheim?" thread ;)

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

yeah, i was waiting for you

yeah, i was waiting for you know who to get to Zakheim in his "Who is?" threads but im not holding my breathe :-) kind of shatters the "homicidal hijackers"(as they were called in DHS's National Review link he posted) story.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Hopsicker, to the contrary, thinks they did it.

And he would call you some variant of a nut if you suggested remote control.

"If the alleged "hijackers" were anywhere near those planes we would have already seen 3 dozen security tapes documenting their arrival and boarding"

Again, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. I wish you people would accept that being likely (to you) and being proven are two different things.

Let's say I agree with you. The missing videos are damning. Just like the missing videos at the pentagon are damning (meaning there was no plane?)

Tomorrow they release a number of videos showing the guys boarding the planes.

Does that prove they hijacked the planes?

The inverse was true a minute ago. No video, means no hijacking. So, video must mean hijacking, right?

They have taken the suspicious route by witholding as much evidence as possible, without justification. This no doubt came from above (white house), on the assumption that anything could potentially expose the fraud. So they release nothing, if they can get away with it. What they are hiding is sometimes unclear, and could be several angles, not just the one you bet the farm on.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

and so what are you thoughts on

Dov Zakheim, Monsieur johndoraemi?

Dov Zakheim

Zakheim was a high level player, the comptroller (money tracker) of the Pentagon, where $2.3 Trillion was "unaccounted for."

Have they "accounted for" it yet?

He also had ties to a company that was developing a technology to "hijack" a plane from hijackers, in other words, a remote control flight system that would lock out the pilots on board.

Does that prove this happened on 9/11?

Not by a long shot.

But a lot of things don't add up. The alleged Zakheim connection isn't going to get us a new investigation. But, should such an investigation get started, he is certainly to be on the list.

Someone said that Zakheim had another connection to a bunch of Boeing fuel tanker aircraft. They developed an elaborate theory that the passenger planes were swapped with tankers (that hold a lot fewer passengers, at the front), and this explained the low number of passengers on board, and it tied the planes to the military/Zakheim/New World Order/Bohemian Grove/Roswell.

I'd like to see some more evidence.


And can someone on the east coast PLEASE walk into the Port Authority and demand the police reports about the van at the George Washington Bridge? It's not really asking a lot, to potentially blow open the whole cover up.