Democracy NOW! - Counterpunch & 9/11 - "Cheering Movers and Art Student Spies" - UPDATE 3 - Video

The LINK TV broadcast featured an additional 8 minutes of commentary after the regular Democracy NOW! broadcast, linked below. The additional segment looks at Carl Cameron's piece a bit more, and Ketcham reveals that his FOX sources told him that Abe Foxman (ADL) put pressure on FOX's parent company, NEWSCORP to shut down Cameron's investigation.

Putfile video stream - Part 1 (original segment):
Click here to watch 'Democracy-NOW---2-8-2007'

Putfile video stream - Part 2 (additional segment only broadcast on LINK TV):
Click here to watch 'Democracy-NOW---2-8-2007---Part-2'

Thursday, February 8th, 2007

Cheering Movers and Art Student Spies: Was Israel Tracking the Hijackers Before the 9/11 Attacks?

A new article in the newsletter Counterpunch examines unresolved questions over whether Israeli agents were tracking the 9/11 hijackers before September 11th. ABC’s 20/20, The Forward, and have all covered the story. But where’s the follow up? We speak to the author of the article, Christopher Ketcham; Counterpunch editor Alexander Cockburn, and Marc Perelman, the Forward reporter who did one of the first reports on the story in 2002.

Were Israeli agents tracking the 9/11 hijackers before September 11th? In 2002, ABC’s 20/20 and The Jewish newspaper The Forward all did this story. But where’s the follow up?

Freelance journalist Christopher Ketcham has just published a comprehensive piece on this story in the newsletter Counterpunch. The article highlights various interconnected stories: The five Israeli “movers” who witnesses say were cheering after the first plane struck the World Trade Center; the so-called Israeli art students who were living in concentrated areas where hijackers were living around the United States and how two of the hijackers ended up on the Watch List weeks before 9/11.

Christopher Ketcham, the author of the article, joins us on the line from upstate New York. Alexander Cockburn also joins us on the line. He is the editor of Couterpunch where the piece is published. And with us here in the firehouse studio is Marc Perelman he is the reporter who did one of the first reports on the story for The Forward in 2002.

* Marc Perelman. Diplomatic Correspondent for The Forward. He broke the story about Israeli spies in 2002.

* Alexander Cockburn. Editor of Counterpunch.

* Christopher Ketcham. Freelance journalist. Author of “What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?” in the latest edition of CounterPunch’s print newsletter.

Download MP3 at Democracy NOW!:

Segment starts at 45:35

(Transcript after jump...)


AMY GOODMAN: Christopher Ketcham, the author of the article, joins us on the line from Upstate New York. Alexander Cockburn also joins us on the phone. He is the editor of Counterpunch, where the piece is published. And with us here in the firehouse studio is Marc Perelman. He is the reporter who did one of the first reports on the story for the newspaper, The Forward, in 2002.

Why don't we begin with Christopher Ketcham? Christopher, start off with the story you begin with in this latest piece, and that’s the story of the five so-called “movers,” this story that has been documented, talked about, rumored about. Explain what happened that morning of 9/11.

CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM: Sure. Let me just preface this whole conversation just to say that the Counterpunch article does not pretend to provide readers with a definitive smoking gun for these allegations. Rather, what I’ve done is gathered all the available information on the matter. That is, the disparate media reports that you mentioned; leaked documents from FBI, CIA and the Justice Department; conversations with former intelligence officials and current FBI officers.

Now, the upshot of all this available evidence is this: the Israeli government likely was conducting some kind of spy operation on US soil in the run-up to the September 11th attacks. The purpose of the operation was to identify and track Muslim extremists, possibly including members of al-Qaeda.

Now, the best evidence that we have for this is, in fact, the story of these five moving men. Now, three of these guys were seen on the morning of September 11, just after the first plane hit the North Tower, quote-unquote, “celebrating” on the New Jersey waterfront. Now, that's -- I put the quotes around that, because it comes from a FBI BOLO, or “be on lookout,” an alert that was put out regarding these men that day. The celebration apparently consisted of high-fiving, according to one FBI official, of holding up cigarette lighters, as if they’re at a rock concert. So, remember, the plane has just hit the tower, exploded in the tower, and these three men are behaving rather oddly.

Later in the day, they were picked up. Two other men apparently joined them in a van. They were -- the case was immediately handed over to FBI counterintelligence. The men were held for 71 days. They were repeatedly interrogated. They repeatedly failed lie detector tests. And then, after those 71 days was up, they were sent home, apparently under pressure or because of pressure brought by the Israeli government and by certain players in the US government. And the story sort of disappeared from there. I mean, 20/20 covered this --

AMY GOODMAN: Just one thing, Chris Ketcham, you say -- you quote the officer who arrested them, named DeCarlo. You say, according to DeCarlo's report, this officer was told without question by the driver of the moving van, Sivan Kurzberg, “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.”

CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM: Right. Well, what's interesting there is that, you recall after the first plane hit, no one really thought that this was a terrorist attack. I mean, most people thought -- and I was there, you know, on the Brooklyn waterfront watching this whole thing. Everyone thought it was an accident. These guys, when they were interrogated by FBI, told them that -- essentially said that they immediately knew it was a terrorist attack. And they actually told the FBI that the reason they were celebrating was because the attacks would be beneficial to Israel, that it was, quote, “a good thing for Israel” -- that's according to the FBI spokesman who spoke on the record about this -- and that it would bring sympathy for Israel's political agenda in the Middle East.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And if I could interrupt, I’d like to bring in Marc Perelman to the conversation. Marc, it was your newspaper, The Forward, that first broke the story that the FBI thought that at least a couple of these people were Mossad agents. Could you talk about that and how you uncovered that information?

MARC PERELMAN: Yes, we ended up writing a story in March of 2002, after several months of reporting, because when this incident happened, obviously, a lot of people were intrigued, including journalists. And so, everybody was trying to find more information about this. And I’ve been talking to sources and trying to find out a little bit more, and after a while, I was able to confirm that, according to the FBI, two of those movers were identified as Mossad agents. And they were interrogated about it.

Obviously, the circumstances around the interrogation, there was a lot of panic after 9/11. People were looking for suspects everywhere. So the reports about exactly how they were behaving and what they said -- I mean, we should be a little bit careful about this, because -- and so, what I tried to do is go beyond the reports about them smiling and high-fiving, and so on, because I had my doubts about this. I still have them, by the way. And so, what I did was try to back up the information I had, that they were indeed recognized as Mossad agents who were essentially tracking a Muslim activist in the New York/New Jersey area, which was known to be active since the mid-‘90s, and so we eventually were able to piece the story together and go with it.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And what eventually happened to the five men?

MARC PERELMAN: They were sent home to Israel in, I think, November, if I remember, allegedly for immigration violations, and they’re home.

AMY GOODMAN: We don’t have much time, and I wanted to get to another story, which was a story of the so-called “art students,” Christopher Ketcham. Very briefly outline this parallel story.

CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM: Well, basically, the phenomenon of the art students, for want of a better phrase, because it is truly a mystery, even to me -- I’m a complete agnostic about this part of the story -- these so-called art students were young Israeli men and women who were traveling the country. They were identified by the Drug Enforcement Agency as repeatedly attempting to penetrate government offices, including DEA offices, and to sell, to try to sell art, these cheap knockoff oil paintings, to government officials.

Now, after September 11th, when, in the wake of these sudden attacks, investigators began to go back and look at the nexus of art student activity with the nexuses of the activities of the future hijackers, of the 9/11 hijackers, and what they found was that the art students, in many cases, were living in very close proximity to the September 11 hijackers. Many of these art students were moving large amounts of cash, some of them were reportedly, according to Le Monde, carrying cell phones provided them by an Israeli vice consul in the US. Many of them were highly trained in electronic intercept and intelligence work that was far beyond the compulsory military training required by Israeli law. So these were part of the -- suspicions were aroused, and they remain.

AMY GOODMAN: Suspicions that they were tracking the hijackers?

MARC PERELMAN: That’s correct.

AMY GOODMAN: Let's go to Alexander Cockburn. You have published this piece. It is titled "Cheering Movers and Art Student Spies: What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?" Who were the Israelis living next to Mohammed Atta? What was in the van on the New Jersey shore? How did two hijackers land on watch lists weeks before 9/11? Who shut down FOX News’s Carl Cameron? We just have two minutes, but talk about the way the media has covered this, why you chose to cover it, and that last story of FOX.

ALEXANDER COCKBURN: The main thing, Amy, is that basically the story, which Perelman and others did do good work on, has been systematically suppressed by the media for a very long time, starting with FOX News, which killed off Cameron, the ABC News, which dropped it. And, obviously, there are thousands of questions, which Ketcham goes into in great detail, which should be the subject of congressional hearings and investigations, such as, was the Mossad essentially being subcontracted by the CIA to work in the United States on spying, which would be illegal? How much did the Israelis really know? If it was a good thing for Israel, maybe they withheld the final news that the thing was going to land. That’s a speculation, of course, but it should be investigated and probed.

It’s absolutely extraordinary that Ketcham’s story, which has been worked on, which is a very long and complex story, could not find any market until Counterpunch, which is what we’re here for, could published it. Obviously, the main reason is the word “Israel.” People drop it like a hot potato. As soon as you hear people say it’s a good thing for Israel, the whole lobby came in and had those people whipped out of their jail and sent back to Israel. And since then, all questions regarding it had been systematically checked off. I think that’s the sort of, you know, journalistic patty-cake --

ALEXANDER COCKBURN: Alexander, this story that you've published first was going to go to, then The Nation?

ALEXANDER COCKBURN: That's what I understand from Christopher, yes. That's true.

AMY GOODMAN: Christopher Ketcham?

CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM: Yeah. The editors didn't feel that there was any news here.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And I’d like to ask Marc Perelman, were you surprised when the 9/11 Commission Report came out that there was no mention of -- at all in the reports of possible knowledge by Israeli agents in this country of the attacks or tracking of some of these suspects?

MARC PERELMAN: Yes and no. I mean, I was surprised, because, since there have been questions that are still being asked now, that at least the commission would address the issue, even to debunk it. That being said, my reporting was narrow, was about those movers and what were they doing. And the conclusion was that they were essentially spying on radical activists in the region, and that they had been let go, because the American authorities had determined that they did not have foreknowledge of the attacks, which is different than what the article says, because it implies that they were essentially shipped to Israel because of the Israel lobby, and because they knew, whereas what I have been able to find out is that they were sent home because they did something they were not supposed to do and without the knowledge of the American government, which is an issue, obviously, that should be discussed publicly.

AMY GOODMAN: That the Israelis were spying on US soil.

MARC PERELMAN: Right, without the approval of the US authorities. Sometimes friendly governments have agreements, where they can kind of like spy together. Apparently, this was a case where it was not happening.

AMY GOODMAN: Marc, we’re going to have to leave it there. Marc Perelman of The Forward, which is based in New York; Christopher Ketcham, freelance journalist, author of this latest piece that appears in Counterpunch; Alexander Cockburn, thanks also for joining us, editor of Counterpunch newletter.

Show "Like I said before," by 911MagicianComm...

woah. while i agree that

woah. while i agree that 911blogger could and should focus on the Israeli angle more, saying you have "tons more respect" for a guy like Cockburn than you do for this blog is a bit much wouldnt you say? Cockburn hates the 9/11 truth movement. he hates you and thinks you are a cancer on the larger anti-war movement. you respect that? this is impressive that Democracy Now and Cockburn would go there. it genuinely surprises me, but i will not forget what Cockburn and Amy Goodman have said, or rather havent said before. after Cockburns bullshit little anti-9/11 movement rants i think hes gonna have to do a bit more to get my respect.

I said "as of today" ....

Tomorrow I could go back to despising Cockburn again and being content with 911blogger. The thing is, people misread his intentions. Do you know that any coverage of 9/11 conspiracy theory -even if it is someone belittling it- is good coverage. Just mentioning it, even you are trashing it, causes people to consider the details of 9/11. I respect Counterpunch because they deal with taboo subjects and make good, bold points. And today, Cockburn was on national radio talking about the possibility that Israel knew about 9/11 in advance. Considering the mainstream 9/11 Truth Movement says "Bush did 9/11", maybe Cockburn is on to something, and maybe he has a reason for calling us morons. He has opened an issue about 9/11 that I rarely see mentioned here, and this is supposed to be the 9/11Blogger. I'm sorry, but its true. Now, go ahead and give my negative rating.

The Israelis definitely knew

The Israelis definitely knew about the 9/11 attacks beforehand. Does anybody really debate that point?

August 8-15, 2001: Israel Reportedly Warns of Major Assault on the US

Ephraim Halevy was head of the Israeli Mossad from 1998 to 2002.Ephraim Halevy was head of the Israeli Mossad from 1998 to 2002. [Source: Associated Press]At some point between these dates, Israel warns the US that an al-Qaeda attack is imminent. [Fox News, 5/17/2002] Reportedly, two high-ranking agents from the Mossad come to Washington and warn the FBI and CIA that from 50 to 200 terrorists have slipped into the US and are planning “a major assault on the United States.” They say indications point to a “large scale target,” and that Americans would be “very vulnerable.” They add there could be Iraqi connections to the al-Qaeda attack. [Daily Telegraph, 9/16/2001; Ottawa Citizen, 9/17/2001; Los Angeles Times, 9/20/2001]

what the heck is going on here?

Why is MagishCommish saying we are gatekeepers of the Israeli issue? Nonsense! We talk about it all the time, even if some people don't think it should be as much of a focus as it is for us.

But let's clarify--the issue is not whether or not Israel knew in advance--that would seem impossible to deny, given the presence of the dancing Israelis.

The cover story of the 19 evil Muzzle-'im hijackers was leaked all over the intelilgence world before 9/11, and of course a bunch of people sent along warnings of what they had heard. THIS WAS DELIBERATE. The idea of course was to establish a reason to believe that in fact there was a conspiracy afoot, so that when the shit hit the fan and the planes hit the towers there would be a convenient SCAPEGOAT.

The question is in fact did Israel know in advance because THEY WERE IN ON IT? If Cockburn is on the radio trying to salvage his credibility now by going for some "Israel warned us of the evil Muzzle-'im plot" limited hangout LIHOP pablum then he is NOT coming around to the truth. We should look back at his essay, widely printed around the world (including in Le Monde Diplomatique) to see what his beef was.

He believes we are crazy to think that the towers were brought down in a controlled demolition. Now he says--"hey, Israel warned us, they were tracking the hijackers!" Wow, welcome to cluesville Andy! Except that you're STILL wrong! And no, no one believes a word you say anymore, so it doesn't matter how many times you change your tune.

The question is--WHAT WAS ISRAEL'S ROLE IN THE ACTUAL EVENTS OF 9/11, meaning the controlled demolition of Netanyahu's close friend Larry Silevrstein's freshly acquired properties?

Did Larry outsource the demolition work to a willing (non-American) crew of professional killers (Mossad?)

Did they all in turn work to help the neocons carry out their insane anti-muslim oil-grabbing middle east destroying plans?

Will Americans ever be allowed by their AIPAC-owned politicians to know anything true about Israel and have their well-informed popular will respected?

Time will tell the truth, Cockburn will tell lies.

He can join Fetzer, Wood, and Nico on the other side of the one-way door to Credibiltyville.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


watch the early news footage

I received four 6hr. VHS tapes of 9/11 news coverage all starting that morning and following various news outlets for a few days after.

Israel was all over the networks naming names and prescribing solutions.

I haven't looked much into Israeli warnings or involvement but I know there wasn't a shortage of Israeli officials telling us how scary the Muslim Boogeymen are. They let us all know that America is now feeling what Israel has felt for decades. We are brothers against EVIL!! Yes!


Consider the attack on the USS Liberty, which I think was a deliberate attack to force the US into the Arab/Israeli war. It definitely sets a historical precedent for an Israeli operation to push the United States into a war.

Hours and hours of footage...I bet there are some nice bits of information in there. I attempted to encode it all one time but my PC is not powerful enough to record all the video. It ends up going out of sync and gets pretty bad.

Can't Stop 9/11 Fever

jpass, please do not give up

jpass, please do not give up your efforts in encoding that material. Would love to see it.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

USS Liberty.

"Consider the attack on the USS Liberty, which I think was a deliberate attack to force the US into the Arab/Israeli war. It definitely sets a historical precedent for an Israeli operation to push the United States into a war."

It was definitely a joint US, Israel false flag (On the most decorated naval ship in the fleet no less.) that was to be blamed on Egypt. Hell the USS America had scrambled jets armed with nukes!

Here's the best documentary, to date, on the subject.

USS Liberty: Dead in the Water

wow. i support these troops...

thanks for the link--it's now on my website.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Yes, It's a MUST see.

One of the few documentaries, like Freedom to Fascism, that you walk away from feeling like you've been kicked in the nuts.

By the way, cool looking website. I'll check it out.

I actually wrote a song about it

I have a song I wrote and am currently recording called The USS Liberty. - lyrics - USS Liberty

Can't Stop 9/11 Fever

Thanks for posting this....

Great doc....excellent place for people who are just learning of this act of Treason to go to learn the full story of the Liberty after getting exposed to it in Terrorstorm....

Suspicious insofar as...

1) Cockburn just did his standard "talking points" hit pieces, only to have Counterpunch suffer the backlash of its own subscribers.

2) Now they come with the well-documented aspects of the Israeli angle ("movers" and "art students") on Amy's show, no less, even raising the possibility of foreknowledge, but all of it - all of it - absolutely nothing new. The same stuff we knew by 2002 from the same sources (DEA, Cameron, Forward, Ha'aretz, Bergen Record).

3) Is someone trying to compensate for getting burned on their defense of the 9/11 official story by at least covering the Israeli "foreknowledge" angle?

4) Or is this a gradual beginning toward covering similar items like chain of command response on the day, NORAD, advance preparations, wargames, changing timelines and other cover-ups, Flt. 93 shootdown, Pentagon/Mineta/Cheney, hijacker doubles and evidence of continuous surveillance by US agencies, Able Danger, financial trail... ?


IMO - This is in support of pushing

a limited hangout option that frames Rice and Tenet as having foreknowledge and not doing anything. I started seeing this storyline being advanced in the msm last November.

It won't work.

Too many people know too much already.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Be well.

Cockburn is a snake, I hope

Cockburn is a snake, I hope I'm wrong but he's at least been a mega asshole towards all 9/11 Truth activists, you can’t deny that.

Show "The "snake" who just on the radio talking about Mossad and 9/11" by 911MagicianComm...

His essays on the subject

His essays on the subject have been hysterical as in mad.

Are you out of you're mind?

Are you out of you're mind? This guy has been a complete and utter a-grade c*cksmoker towards 9/11 Truth. It's immensely ironic and hypocritical of his false untenable position to be now bringing the Israeli issue;

The 9/11 Conspiracy Nuts

You trip over one fundamental idiocy of the 9/11 conspiracy nuts -- -- the ones who say Bush and Cheney masterminded the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon -- in the first paragraph of the opening page of the book by one of their high priests, David Ray Griffin, The New Pearl Harbor. “In many respects,” Griffin writes, “the strongest evidence provided by critics of the official account involves the events of 9/11 itself… In light of standard procedures for dealing with hijacked airplanes… not one of these planes should have reached its target, let alone all three of them.”

So pardon me for not embracing this individual with open arms.

Show "Have we learned anything from 9/11?" by 911MagicianComm...

"How do you know he wasn't

"How do you know he wasn't trying to promote the movement by talking about it?"

Errr yea, that is until you see the affect all that bullshit has had. Have you ever corresponded with "Leftists" who believe that 9/11 truth is “sapping the energy” out of "more important issues"? Just look at that recent Guardian hit-piece. Most of them don't believe that because they formed the opinion independently, they believe that because of what Cockburn and Chomsky have been doing. And even if what you suggest is true, and that he's "trying to promote the movement by talking about it" why does he not GET REAL and quit being a coward!? Why does he not tell it like it is instead some imaginary innuendo that you believe is there?! Come on.

coach Cockburn

egging you on - like the tough-love coach calling his star a whimp, over an over, just to get him to notch up his game?

don't think I can buy it — the 911 3rd rail is more likely — why get yourself "cancelled" just to become the star-quality voice in a fringe cause cause célèbre, especially if the cause can't pay you a salary

Chomsky's no different — he wants to leave his kids something

the whole article?

can anyone post or link to the full Ketcham article?

cockburn is still covering up the truth

the cabal must have naked pictures of him. he had the nerve to feature a weapons designer (garcia) as a 911 truth debunker. his deception now goes like this: because the dogs of 911 truth are nipping at the legs of the cabal cockburn's task is to protect israeili invovlvement in the actual demolitions by implying that mossad agents were tracking real terrorrists who were about to commit real crimes but simply let it happen. it is all complete and utter baloney and art students dont matter. the real truth is that military drones were flown into the towers where bombs had been planted, all to advance israeli and military complex interest by enabling wars in the mid-east. when cockburn comes out and says this he will have my respect.

That's interesting, are they

That's interesting, are they finally growing some balls and is this genuine? Or could this also have something to do with the CNN coverage and that holocaust denier at the Arizona Conference? Which seemed like some kind of flurry of anti-Semitic smears against 9/11 truth?

Listen to the MP3

This is the closest that Democracy NOW! has ever come to "truth" about 9/11.

I believe they have caved under the pressure.

The "Maginot Line" of the Left is breaking.

Yea man that's what I hope,

Yea man that's what I hope, its just Cockburn in particular has been burning bridges hardcore so it's difficult not to be cynical.


Combined with the recent Brzezinski testimony....

.....where he all but spells out Cheney et al will stage a false-flag attack to justify aggression against would seem that the sub-group of elites, who are really f*cking nervous about what could happen next, are allowing 9/11 Truth to be exposed by previously muzzled establishment figures...

Maybe Bush should speed up renovations on his new 100K acre ranch in Paraguay. What are the US/Paraguay extradition policies anyway? (Rhetorical question).

US Paraguay extradition treaty

Irrelevant even if it exists. If Paraguay is going to harbor a traitor, then we just invade and bring the fugitive to justice. I forget who it was, but someone established the precedent a few years back. :)


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Just by accident

I searched for the validity of this claim a few seconds ago:,,1928928,00.html


Just to know where the troops must go to find them! ;-)

i vote the latter

The second of your possibilities seems more likely. Either that, or Cockhead has some fans who hounded him about his 9/11 hit pieces.

Can't Stop 9/11 Fever

video of democracy now?

Could someone try to get the video of the show and post it in an avi or something? I don't think I am able to download from "rtsp". My home computer is too slow, and I can't install the software on "public" computers.

The ram file from the "watch 256k stream" contains:


Seems like an important "break", just because we tend to think of Goodman and Cockburn as left gate keepers. Maybe it's the beginning of something good.

Fred W

even if they break 911 wide

even if they break 911 wide open they were still gate keepers for the last 5 years...


...but COCKburner I find to be a complete hack. If he were more intelligent I'd think him a disinfo agent, but as it stands he's just another asshole chasing numbers and making use of 9/11 and the Truth Movement to do it. The guy makes me sick. As for Democracy NOW! I think they're probably the penultimate left gatekeepers of the modern era. Oh well, I know a lot of people like them anyway. That's the allure of gatekeepers... they provide 90% GOOD info... I hope everyone who's drinking from that trough though realizes that there's still 10% poison there.

For those seeking the files.... DN is usually posted at this gatekeeping clearinghouse in torrent format:

Dancing Israelis

Dancing israelis:

Israelis detained for `puzzling behavior' after WTC tragedy
Five Israelis who had worked for a moving company based in New Jersey are being held in U.S. prisons for what the Federal Bureau of Investigation has described as "puzzling behavior" following the terror attack on the World Trade Center in New York last Tuesday.[...] They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery.Ha'Aretz, September 17, 2001

Five Men Detained As Suspected Conspirators
Eight hours after terrorists struck Manhattan's tallest skyscrapers, police in Bergen County detained five men who they said were found carrying maps linking them to the blasts. The five men, who were in a van stopped on Route 3 in East Rutherford around 4:30 p.m., were being questioned by police but had not been charged with any crime late Tuesday.

However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives. The FBI seized the van for further testing, authorities said. Bergen Record, September 12, 2001 (copy)

The White Van
Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." ABC June 21, 2002

Spies, or students?
Were the Israelis just trying to sell their paintings, or agents in a massive espionage ring? Ha'Aretz, May 14, 2002

Suspicious Activities Involving Israeli Art Students at DEA Facilities
Drug Enforcement Administration Office of Security, June, 2001
In January, 2001, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Office of Security Programs (IS), began to receive reports of Israeli art students attempting to penetrate several DEA Field Offices in the continental United States. Additionally, there have been reports of Israeli art students visiting the homes of numerous DEA employees. These incidents have occurred since at least the beginning of 2000, and have continued to the present DEA

Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth
Americans Probing Reports of Israeli Espionage
Despite angry denials by Israel and its American supporters, reports that Israel was conducting spying activities in the United States may have a grain of truth, the Forward has learned.[...]

According to one former high-ranking American intelligence official, who asked not to be named, the FBI came to the conclusion at the end of its investigation that the five Israelis arrested in New Jersey last September (Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari and Yaron Shmuel) were conducting a Mossad surveillance mission and that their employer, Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, N.J., served as a front.[...]

In addition to their strange behavior and their Middle Eastern looks, the suspicions were compounded when a box cutter and $4,000 in cash were found in the van. Moreover, one man carried two passports and another had fresh pictures of the men standing with the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center in the background.[...]

On December 7, a New Jersey judge ruled that the state could seize the goods remaining inside the warehouse. The state also has a lawsuit pending against Urban Moving Systems and its owner, Dominik Otto Suter, an Israeli citizen. The FBI questioned Mr. Suter once. However, he left the country afterward and went back to Israel before further questioning. Mr. Suter declined through his lawyer to be interviewed for this article.[...] Charlene Eban, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Washington, and Don Nelson, a Justice Department spokesman, said they had no knowledge of an Israeli spying operation.

"If we found evidence of unauthorized intelligence operations, that would be classified material," added Jim Margolin, a spokesman for the FBI in New York. Forward, February, 2002

Large FBI list of terror suspects pdf with Suter on it:

Some dead links in there

try this instead:

Disclaimer: I do not promote any of killtowns own views regarding 911. This is just a fine compilation!

More research... The White Van and Dancing Isrealis

Thought I would add this research carried out last July (2006) in the old loose change research forum.

Link : The White Van and Dancing Isrealis

Plenty of other good research over there too...

Best wishes

"Our purpose was to document the event."

(They took the old link down evidently. Funny, this one was posted by killtown. Oh well, the old one was pretty bad quality anyway.)

Mossad next door to Atta

Next Door to Mohammed Atta
Israeli agents were living in Florida and tailing the future death pilots – until their cover was blown.
by Oliver Schröm
Die Zeit
October 14, 2002

On April 30 of last year the US Air Force sounded an alarm. The security division of the Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City warned of an "intelligence ring of Israeli art students". American law enforcement agencies had earlier learned that a noticeably large number of Israeli students had applied for jobs at software development and technology firms that primarily served government agencies. The obvious suspicion was that the young Israelis were members of a spy ring. A specially formed task force, consisting of employees of the DEA, INS and Office of Security Programs, looked into the matter.

The young Israelis were placed under surveillance and their personal details were analyzed by computer. Die Zeit obtained the 61-page final report, according to which, 120 Israelis, organized into cells of four to six persons, formed a tightly organized and efficient espionage network. A few of the putative students were actually specialists on eavesdropping, radio technology, or counter-terrorism.

The Israelis were arrested, interrogated and subsequently deported. In the world of intelligence, espionage among friends is an everyday occurrence. In this case too many people were involved for the matter to be covered up. But both the Israeli government and American authorities tried to downplay it.

Not until after the attacks of September 11 did the consequences of the spy ring become clear. Apparently the agents were not interested in military or industrial facilities, but were shadowing a number of suspects, who were later involved in the terrorist attacks against the US. According to a report of the French intelligence agency that Die Zeit examined, "according to the FBI, Arab terrorists and suspected terror cells lived in Phoenix, Arizona, as well as in Miami and Hollywood, Florida from December 2000 to April 2001 in direct proximity to the Israeli spy cells."

According to the report, the Mossad agents were interested in the leader of the terrorists, Mohammed Atta and his key accomplice, Marwan al-Shehi. Both lived in Hamburg before they settled in Hollywood, Florida in order to plan the attacks. A Mossad team was also operating in the same town. The leader, Hanan Serfati, had rented several dwellings. "One of Serfati's apartments was located on the corner of 701st St. and 21st Ave. [sic] in Hollywood, right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi.", French intelligence reported later. Everything indicates that the terrorists were constantly observed by the Israelis. The chief Israeli agent was staying right near the post office where the terrorists had a mailbox. The Mossad also had its sights on Atta's accomplice Khalid al-Midhar, with whom the CIA was also familiar, but allowed to run free. The Mossad apparently warned their American counterparts several times about the terrorists, especially about al-Midhar. The American government later admitted that they had received such warnings prior to September 11. But at most that there were attacks planned against American installations outside the United States.

Die Zeit has learned that a few weeks before the attacks, Israeli intelligence gave US authorities a list with names of suspects who were staying in the US for the purpose of preparing attacks. Apparently not until shortly before September 11 did the CIA recognize that al-Midhar was dangerous and asked law enforcement agencies to look for him.


Will up later on today.

"I just... need... some TIME, Mr. Spock..."


The teaser on the Democracy Now website is tantalizing. But they list this content as "exclusive" to subscribers. Can anyone post a copy of the transcript?

If this is the beginning of

If this is the beginning of real movement from them I applaud it, followed by asking "Where the hell were you?". Even if they start railing for 9/11 Truth harder than even Alex Jones, we need to watch them carefully. The last five years have shown their color. Given their large audience, they might be able to do more damage from within than they could from without.

I still don't think they're moving any more than they have to to maintain some level of credibility with their audience. The gate is being torn down but its foundations go deep. We are going to need some heavy equipment to remove their bovis stercum entirely.

"...The gate is being torn down but its foundations go deep..."

....Maybe we could ship it off to China to be melted ASAP....?


HAHA, my kingdom for some thermate, to melt the left gate...

do the gatekeepers even realize that they've failed big time?

redraw the lines, remake the paradigm.

our controlled demolition of the ancien regime continues apace!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


well said.

well said.

do you notice how they never

do you notice how they never talk about the attempted mexican national parliament bombing by mossad in oct 2001

i';ve been banned from libertyforum for two weeks for posting that

the fake 911 people never say the wtc 7 smoking gun

and they never say the mexican national parliament bombing attempt by mossad

"the fake 911 people never

"the fake 911 people never say the wtc 7 smoking gun"

Oh well - they do, but in the next sentence they derail the argument by using the silly Silverstein "pull it" trap.

The real 911truthers don't use the Silverstein quote, they stay focused on the improbable collapse.

But of course that's just my pet goat.

Mossad Mexican Parliament job...

This from cooperative research.  Note the odd way it seems filed under "Western Support for Islamic militancy"  Squeeze me? Baking powder?  How about file it in the thick folder titled "Israeli false flag ops"?  How many people do you suppose know this even happened?  I guess... it's... just not... worthy... of coverage...?  Do things GET more, um, incriminating?

This page shows all events that either reference, or are referenced by, the event 'October 10, 2001'.

October 10, 2001: Two Israelis Are Detained in Mexican Legislature Building after Behaving Suspiciously and Found To Be Carrying Arms

Two Israelis, Salvador Gersson Smike, 34, and Sar Ben Zui, 27, are arrested in the Mexican Congress Building in Mexico City. Smike is carrying a plastic 9 mm sophisticated Glock 9 mm pistol tucked into his underwear in his lower back. Glock pistols are made with a special plastic material and are very easy to smuggle. [Correo, 10/11/2001; El Heraldo de Mexico (Mexico City), 10/11/2001; Cronica de Hoy (Mexico City), 10/12/2001] He also has with him a briefcase reported to contain 58 bullets, bomb-making materials, three detonators, and nine grenades. [El Heraldo de Mexico (Mexico City), 10/11/2001] The two were apprehended after ex-sugarcane workers, who were waiting for a congressional hearing, saw the two Israelis behaving strangely at around 4:00 p.m. They were reportedly photographing the workers below the belt. When the workers demanded that the two men identify themselves, the Israelis said they were press photographers. The workers dismissed their claims, overcame them, and then discovered they were armed with pistols and other high caliber arms. The two men had apparently also been seen the day before taking pictures. [Cronica de Hoy (Mexico City), 10/12/2001] Security guards soon arrived, disarmed the men, and took them to the security office. At around 6:00 p.m., it is learned that the two men are Israelis and that one of them, Salvador Gersson, is a former colonel of the Israeli Special Forces. [Correo, 10/11/2001; Diario de Mexico (Mexico City), 10/11/2001 pdf file] Soon after, a man claiming to be a supervisor from the company, Desarrollo de Sistemas de Seguridad Privada (Private Security Systems Development), says the two men are employees at the firm and that they were taking pictures because they are “vacationing.” The journalists who are present scoff at the claim. [Correo, 10/11/2001; El Heraldo de Mexico (Mexico City), 10/11/2001] After October 13, no additional information is reported about the incident.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force

Incrminating how? is incriminated? Is that what you are saying? If so..

Paul has done so much more research then you on these matters so don't even go there.

Can't Stop 9/11 Fever

ha! no, you misunderstood me...

I love the 9/11 timeline, own the book in fact. More incriminating for the Israeli agents. And I really have no idea how much research Paul has done other than collecting articles for the timeline. I've certainly done my share too mind you. :)


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


What the timing suggests...

... I'm half-annoyed, half-pleased to see a couple of leading left media outfits decide to semi-seriously tackle this as-provocative-as-it-is-outdated subject. But what on earth does the timing suggest? Had they done this in 2001 or 2002- it would've been brave and controversial. Had it been 2003, well, it would have been concurrent with the early wave on 9/11 Truth momentum, and at least could have been somewhat informative. As it is 2007, however, it can only be viewed as cynical in the extreme. This story is old enough to go to kindergarten at this point. Both CounterPunch and Democracy Now have ignored it (along with everyone in the mainstream media) for so long that for them to be covering it now suggests that something important has changed.

I'm very eager to read the article- not because I expect to learn anything new about the story- but because it will teach us something new about Counterpunch. On their website, they are hyping the story as an exclusive to paying subscribers.

My own cynical speculation is that the 9/11 Truth hitpiece that Counterpunch ran pissed off a great many of their subscribers- and led to a lot of people writing angry emails and cancelling subscriptions- and that this is an unsubtle marketing initiative to get new subscribers (or old ones) in the wake of some exodus.

We already know that DemocracyNow has received thousands (or tens of thousands) of angry emails for subscribers- complaining about their blackout on the subject of 9/11 Truth- and that they responded eventually with a similar kind of "world exclusive" on the 5th anniversary of 9/11- a debate between Avery, Bermas and the Popular Mechanics "debunkers". Which gave them a figleaf to cover their naked cowardice when it comes to exploring the subject that could piss of a lot of their foundation donors. (Incidentally, in putting this post together I just saw an intriguing article that suggests another motivation for Goodman to host such a debate... Somehow she neglected to mention her being a beneficiary of a Hearst Corp subsidiary during the debate...)

So CP and DemocracyNow partnering on this particular "exclusive" may be providing them both with some additional cover.

The subject itself- of Israeli foreknowledge and possible complicity- is the sort of thing that is radioactive to the mainstream, which allows CP to congratulate themselves for picking up a story that was, as they say, "suppressed". At the same time- it's not so overtly tied to 9/11 Truth central subjects of focus (controlled demolitions, military drills, mineta testimony, building 7, etc.) that the unwashed leftist masses would say, "Wait a minute- you guys are filching your journalism from the same 9/11 Truth movement you already crapped all over last month- you hypocrites!"

If somebody here gets the full text of the article and can post the salient paragraphs here- I'd love to read it.

the left gatekeepers' balancing act

Right on, DA. Old enough for kindergarten--love it. The left gatekeepers are realizing that their credibility as honest brokers is in a tailspin, and their effectiveness, their very raison d'être, is in deep poopoo. As the right hand of the elites masturbates the official story, and the left hand tickles its nethers, the myth nevertheless keeps getting more and more limp.

This new attempt at dirty talking the official story back from impotence is as laughable as the metaphor suggests. It's pretty pathetic to see these people pick at their crow, thinking that that will make it disappear like brussell sprouts off a kid's plate.

We will NEVER FORGET, Amy Goodman. We will NEVER FORGET, Noam Chomsky. We will NEVER FORGET, Cockburn.


Y'all are to the genuine political left what Fox News is to the genuine political right.

I hope you're all happy with the place you've earned for yourself in history.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



Metaphor this whole thing... right to where it all begins... sex!

Amy is to Bill, what a pity-party beaten house wife is to a bullshit macho thug.

Excellent post! I have to

Excellent post! I have to wonder about the timing of the coverage also. Why toe-in on 9/11 with a story about possible Israeli involvement, when criticizing Israel is one of the most taboo subjects in journalism, right up there with 9/11 itself? It's not like this has been a major thrust of 9/11 research dissemination. This story was covered by several media outlets in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, so there is no breaking news here. Why would they not cover instead the less-controversial Saudi or ISI angle -- or new information that has surfaced about the alleged hijackers?

I am increasingly concerned about the effort to frame 9/11 issues and activists in the most unflattering light, and the newest bullet point in the smear playbook is the insinuation of anti-Semitism. DN and CP both covering the Israeli angle in lockstep in the wake of this new ugly twist? Where did they get that idea? Is this really a coincidence?

I hope I'm wrong. Generally, I think coverage of any sort adds up to a net gain (as someone pointed out, much persuasive information can presented in online comments reponding to an article), but this one has the hallmarks of a Rovian-style campaign from on high.

two observations

about the journalists involved here.

First, Cockburn sounds like quite the self-serving opportunist, playing up the angle that he took this story while other outlets (Salon, The Nation) would not touch it. Whoop-dee-doo, Alex. I agree with an earlier poster here that this seems like Counterpunch trying to appease a section of its audience who were probably pissed off by his off-balance rants against 9/11 skeptics.

Second, Marc Perelman from The Forward is very careful to foreground the fact that (he believes) these Israeli spies were not acting in accordance with the American government. In other words, Perelman's account makes it sound like, yes, they were spying on US soil, but, no, they weren't doing so with the approval of the US government. They were renegade spies or something. That sounds like the grounds for "plausible deniability".

let me get this straight...

Because my reading of the transcript is the opposite--he suggests that they MAY have been subcontracted by the CIA to track the eventual hijackers...

question 1: if they were subcontracted by the CIA to track the eventual hijackers, what was the point of that, if not to stop them from attacking? How can that failure be explained?

question 2: If they were NOT subcontracted by CIA, then there activities were even more troubling. Ever hear of a little thing called sovereignty? And again, if they were tracking hijackers, did they track them all the way to the ticket counter and then suffer debilitating paralysis? What was the point if they weren't going to bust them in the act?

question 3: Assuming as I do that the hijackings did not really take place, and that Atta et al did not need to be tracked since their role was just to be seen and then disappear on 9/11, WHAT EXACTLY was the mission of the dancing Israelis, and the art students, and any of the other Israeli spies going through America's Israeli spy revolving door?

Why no straight answers? Is it because, as I suspect, the truth is pretty damning? That Mossad collaborated with American traitors to set up 9/11 and reap the benefits of the prescripted response?

That is more than likely what the truth is, and people had better stop playing stupid about it, because as we know, the cover-up is as bad if not worse than the actual crime. Trust, when violated, is not easily earned back. There was very little reluctance to allow a war to be waged on arab muslim terrorists when everyone had swallowed the official lie. What will happen when those same people learn the truth? Does what goes around have to necessarily come around? I hope with all my heart that it does not, but this may be a good time for some soul searching by people who wish to claim the moral high ground...


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


this is weird....

Wolfowitz' Chilling Speech

Live Leak
Thursday, February 8, 2007

A few months before 9/11 Wolfowitz gave a chilling speech at West Point. It was all doom and gloom. It sounded strange. Wolfowitz obsesses about Pearl Harbor and "surprise attacks."

that's interesting

Wow. Wasn't expecting this

Wow. Wasn't expecting this anytime soon. I have no doubt that this report arose solely because of the unrelenting pressure 911 truthers have put on both Democracy Now and Counterpunch.

They realize their credibility is sinking into the mire and are therefore engaging in their own "limited hangout", hoping their reputations can be rescued in the ninth hour. Well, if that's what it takes so be it.

Quite surreal to see Cockburn talking about the story being "suppressed", considering his own role in consistently ignoring the 911 truth movement. He even refers to the Mossad being "sub-contracted" by the CIA for work inside the United States. What kind of work? "Spying" on the "terrorists". Sure. And Oswald was the lone gunman.

The only thing missing from this report is a grade-school ability to put two and two together.

Had they truly wished to puruse the matter they would have talked about "Muslim Extremist" Mohammad Atta's penchant for pork. They would have mentioned his pecuiliar appearance aboard one of Jack Abromoff's Casino boats one week before 911. They would have referred to a certain incident at Orlando Executive Aiport in July of 2000 where 43 pounds of heroin were found aboard a Lear Jet -- the same month Atta began his "training'. Strangely enough, the owner of the flight school, Wally Hilliard, was not imprisoned for this rather monumental drug bust. Next time he should get caught with an eight-ball in South Central -- they'll put him away right good.

In short, they would have come to the obvious conclusion that Atta was a mule in training, not a "jihadist", and that the Mossad was simply keeping an eye on the patsies in conjunction with the Able Danger squad, not flying under the radar and keeping their deadly secret to themselves.

Well, it's a start. We should welcome all efforts by gatekeepers to overcome their past, miserable performances, while at the same time pressuring them to move beyond the limited hangout phase.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

they ignored us for so long...

...that they seem to think that LIHOP is going to be enough of a hangout. It's kind of funny to see how little they understand the fire they've been playing with.

Oh, Amy... OHHHH Alex.... no no no. NO no, NO no, NO!

You chose................

you know what's coming..... say it! you chose?


hee hee hee. get out of our f*ing faces now and shut the f* up. it's over. nobody CARES what you think--er, what you CLAIM to think--anymore.

We've scheduled auditions for your replacements. Please have all your crap out by 5 pm tomorrow.

No, we don't want to talk about it. Bye.

[door shuts in faces]


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Donald Rumsfeld 9/10/2001 speech

Some might ask, how in the world could the Secretary of Defense attack the Pentagon in front of its people? To them I reply, I have no desire to attack the Pentagon; I want to liberate it. We need to save it from itself.

The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.

///////////////////// - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

Wonder why they got rid of Cynthia McKinney?

I love this woman! McKinney for President!

shes mine!!! haha, yeah, i

shes mine!!! haha, yeah, i love her too.

Things that stood out to me...

was the Mossad essentially being subcontracted by the CIA to work in the United States on spying, which would be illegal? How much did the Israelis really know? If it was a good thing for Israel, maybe they withheld the final news that the thing was going to land. That’s a speculation, of course, but it should be investigated and probed.


were you surprised when the 9/11 Commission Report came out that there was no mention of -- at all in the reports of possible knowledge by Israeli agents in this country of the attacks or tracking of some of these suspects?

Yes and no. I mean, I was surprised, because, since there have been questions that are still being asked now, that at least the commission would address the issue, even to debunk it.


maybe they withheld the final news

The first one stood out because of the words, CIA, subcontracted, and illegal.

The second one stood out to me because of the MANY things the 9/11 Commission did not address, "even to debunk."

The third one stood out to me because if they were "tracking" the hijackers, they probably knew exactly what they were doing. It doesn't make sense they witheld the information. It makes more sense they shared the information because of things like the rescheduled wargames, etc...

However, Israel did warn the United States, and STILL the United States, well... I think Bob Kerrey says it best...

Mr. President, you knew they were in the United States. You were warned by the CIA. You knew in July they were inside the United States. You were told again by briefing officers in August that it was a dire threat. Didn't do anything to harden our border security. Didn't do anything to harden airport security. Didn't do anything to engage local law enforcement. Didn't do anything to round up INS and the consular office, and say we have to shut this down, and didn't warn the American people. What did you do? Nothing so far as we can see.

Incidentally, there was nothing new in this interview was there?

"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

I blame Dov Zakheim....

and so should you...

and Neil Young was right, Donald Rumsfeld is a straight up murderer.

///////////////////// - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

"tracking" or "controlling"...?

If one goes through this article and replaces the word "track" with "control"... i think they might be on to something. That's my speculation.

track and control

catch and release — Tarpley's formula: patsies and their handlers, moles, professionals and a media of useful fools — Mossad/former Mossad is looking more and more perpish: patsy handlers and professionals, but the moles gotta be inside — very complex op., took years to develop — definately Iran-Contra legacy and beyond — Black Water could have a hand as well — privatized ops are the only way to go— need-to-know cells, fat paydays, compromised operatives, easy to snare for life, no exit — what's that, job making you sick to your stomach? Don't sweat it, take another hit...feels better already, non?

excerpts from the actual counterpunch article

are posted here


Perhaps most intriguing, the Israelis' military and intelligence specialties are listed: "special forces," "intelligence officer," "demolition/explosive ordnance specialist," "bodyguard to head of Israeli army," "electronic intercept operator" -- even "son of a two-star (Israeli) army general."

The "demolition/explosives" does not get a mention in this limited hangout on DemocracyNow. I can't read the full counterpunch article (pay only), yet. We'll see if they address it there.

Cockburn is not trustworthy as I have repeatedly documented at my blog. Neither is Amy Goodman.

They present the evidence as if the only explanation is Mossad surveillance of a common enemy.

The more likely scenario is that Mossad IS the enemy.

They can't figure out why the "art students" existed at all.

On this, I have a very plausible theory. They put US officials on notice that something big was coming, and that Israel was involved. This means cover your ass and play along.

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog

All information is vetted for accuracy. If you have a factual challenge to any of the information, email: johndoraemi --at--

Mossad or x-Mossad

Former CIA, Delta, Seals, SSA...professionals: February 4, 2005 Ambassador Cofer Black Becomes Vice-Chairman at Blackwater USA — — "...As the Coordinator for Counterterrorism, Ambassador Black's office, S/CT, had primary responsibility for developing, coordinating and implementing U.S. counterterrorism policy." — Track and Control