BBC Conspiracy Files program DEBUNKED.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1882365905982811133&hl=en
Following the BBC's pathetic attempt at debunking the 911 truth movement, there is a new documentary directly debunking the program's methods and impartitality - the bedrock of what the BBC was founded on.
It is a slick, and highly impressive piece of filmmaking - and in my oppionion should be added to the front page, and also the recent media section - it really is that good!!
It has David Shayler - ex MI5 agent doing the naration: but have no fear, there is not a single mention/hint of the NPT's. It methodically disects the BBC's Conspiracy Files program, using the latest 911 truth evidence, and arguments. It is tight all the way through, and literally HAMMERS the BBC to the ground.
It is the best piece of counter debunking film yet found on the web (IMO).
- Carlos's blog
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I just saw it last night!
It was great!
Every truther should watch this one because it counters virtually every argument in favor of the OCT put forth by the BBC2 documentary!
maybe someone should redub
maybe someone should redub it - then I could watch it. My doctor told me not to listen to intelligence operatives, bad for my mojo.
I know it’s hard to trust but it’s also easy to dismiss
I am a new member officially, but I have been visiting this site and other 911 related sites for over a year now. I love this movement and have tried to show as many new people as much information I can to wake them up. I have noticed more recently some hostility towards other Truthers, particularly those that perhaps share a slightly different view or hypothesis. I find this strange considering that questioning 911 requires people to make a paradigm shift in their thinking for the most part, or albeit a complete change in the way they view the world and its leaders. I find it curious how people can so quickly dismiss exotic weaponry even if it does sound unbelievable to them. The truth is always stranger than fiction and I would not doubt at all that there is technology held by the Military Industrial Complex that would shock most people if they became aware of it. Yet there are some that seem so quick to dismiss, or judge those that offer a different explanation than standard control demolition techniques. The fact is not many do know for sure how the towers came down, most are theorizing. Steve Jones is one of a few that has actually done a great deal of research and I'm sure if you asked him he would want a new impartial investigation to find out for sure. It almost seems like those that say no no it couldn't have been this or it could never have been that, are deliberately trying to hurt the movement or at least prevent people from participating in the debate. That kind of behavior seems more like that of the 911 commission than anything else. As Shayler worked in the Intelligence field for many years, I would think that he has knowledge about technology that may seem exotic to us. Sure he may be a plant, or a Veg, but from what I've seen he has done a lot of things to help the movement out not hurt it. So that's my 2 cents. I don't mean to piss anyone off; I guess I've just been thinking this for a while now and wanted to share my thoughts. When I watch the We are Change boys do their thing it becomes clear to me that they and those like them are the future of this movement, I hope we see many more Luke Rudowski's out there doing their thing.
Peace
I pretty much agree with
I pretty much agree with this comment and want to add a bit more to it.
It seems to me that there are three basic levels to the arguments being made by the 9/11 Truth movement.
The three levels are:
1) The first and most important level is the task of demolishing of the OCT (official conspiracy theory).
2) A second level is trying to figure out what actually did happen that day. There is more than one conjecture, so we should be open to a greater degree of speculation in this area.
3) A third level is presenting our case as it is now to the public.
It seems that it is often the case that disagreements among us result from confusion about which of these three levels we are dealing with. I believe that if we distinguish these levels clearly, we will save ourselves a good deal of time and confusion.
In this vein, a bit more about the three levels:
1) We have already demolished the OCT in many ways and from many angles. Our case is very strong. The OCT is clearly junk science and no rational person can deny that after looking at the evidence.
2) This second level is for forums like this one where most people have a good grasp of why the OCT is junk. More speculation can and should be allowed at this level.
3) The main thing we want to do on this level is present evidence from level one; that is show people that the OCT is not credible and therefore we need to find a new theory. This is by far the most effective way to deal with the general public because a) this is the next right logical step, b) it is in perfect accord with the scientific method, and c) this argument is the easiest one for us to make. I think most of us agree on this. Presenting this basic case can get boring if you know all the evidence and have looked at it many times. But it will not be boring to people who have not yet been informed (something to remember).
If we take the time to distinguish these levels, we should be more effective in presenting our case to the public and in speculating on forums like this one.
So, how do we assess the new Shayler video?
It is very good level one material and therefore should be promoted. Shayler makes a good case and by it completely shreds the BBC hit piece.
How do we assess Shayler himself?
I am not completely familiar with all of his positions, but it seems he has made "no plane theory" claims. This is level two speculation. He does not present these theories in his video. I agree that the NPT stuff is very weak, but we ourselves are not so weak that we have to worry about every speculative deviation from the main evidence. If Shayler repeatedly makes NPT claims in front of general audiences, I agree that he is getting too far out of line and should be questioned, if only because his methods are ineffective. But he has not yet reached the point where everything he does should be attacked, especially when his work is as good as the video in question here.
How do we assess Fetzer's DEW claims?
They also are level two speculation, but as there is good evidence refuting these claims and as Jim keeps presenting them to a general audience, we should oppose what he is doing and hope that he comes to his senses soon.
How should we assess mini-nuke claims?
This is clearly a level two speculation, but as there is not clear enough evidence one way or the other so far, it seems to me to be OK to think about it for now. If strong counter evidence appears, this claim should be dropped and treated like another DEW theory.
How about flight 77 not hitting the Pentagon?
This is also level two speculation. There is some evidence for it and some evidence against it. Seems to me it is perfectly appropriate for this forum and for some general audiences if it is clearly presented as speculation.
A few things to remember:
1) We do not yet know exactly what happened.
2) Military technology is probably at least two decades ahead of what is generally known in universities today. This means that it is more than possible that such things as the following do exist: advanced holograms, advanced mini-nukes, unheard of weaponry or energy sources, other kinds of technology.
In distinguishing how to deal with people like Shayler or Fetzer, I believe that we should consider the outline above and also:
1) Err on the side of mercy. Accept their speculation until it obviously goes too far and is being addressed too often to a general audience.
2) Remember the old journalist credo--"Always assume your reader does not know the facts. Never assume your reader is stupid." This is how we should treat the general public.
3) Take these two points together. In the case of the Shayler video, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to present this video to the public without our carping about it.
In the end, we will only reach firm, irrefutable conclusions acceptable to the general public after there has been a new investigation where important testimony is made under oath and all of the evidence from 9/11 is examined. As we move toward that goal, let's not waste time attacking a video as fine as this one.
________________
JFK on secrecy and the press
spot on
Amen... We all want to figure out what happened, and none of us really know the full story. Here's to us all working together and finding the truth, whatever it may be.
Peace
What's really being dismissed
Resistance to certain views isn't always necessarily a matter of simple closed-mindedness. If Wood, Fetzer, Reynolds et al. stuck to arguing that it's possible DEW or some 'exotic' weaponry were used in combination with other methods in bringing down the towers, I don't think the antagonism towards them would be as great as it is. But not only do they act as if the case for their view has already been made, allowing of no other possibilities, they also argue as if such weaponry is the ENTIRE explanation for how the towers were brought down, scoffing at Jones for arguing on behalf of thermate--indeed, at anyone arguing on behalf of any pre-planted explosives.
On other occasions, too, I've noticed a tendency in some people who seemingly want to make a case that something is possible, but then encounter resistance, to then leap from 'such-and-such is possible,' to that it's probable, to that it's definitely proven and therefore those who reject it are clearly agents acting to suppress the truth, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Rationale
There's a reason why such things are infused with people who say that real planes didn't hit the towers. It's not hard to understand. Patriotsquestion911 serves the same purpose - mix up the lunacy and the real questions. It's either sincere people who do stupid things, sincere people with agents helping them in their decision-making, or something else entirely.
If you bite into a beautiful looking apple only to find that the inside is rotten, do you continue to eat it? Some may eat around it, but you will tend to wonder about that entire bag you just bought. Maybe throw them all out. And if you never wanted to really have to eat that apple in the first place - your friend was just recommending you get a bag of them - you might never buy any again.
People don't like to be fooled. It's pisses them off.
Those who rated it so low,
Those who rated it so low, have they even watched it?
I had my reservations before watching it but it's actually pretty good.
I can't fault, it was excellent!!
Can we trust him? Who knows! Was this a good doco, absolutely.
Worth the watch, very well thought out and no B/S.
regards John
WE GOT TO TAKE THE POWER BACK!... rage against the machine!!
It doesn't matter whether or
It doesn't matter whether or not David Shayler mentions the NPT or not. People who are still unfamiliar with 9/11 truth (pathetic as they are) will look at Shayler as a legit member of the truth movement and if they decide to "follow" him as a leader of the movement, they will be highly disappointed the NEXT time he mentions the NPT.
When I watched Jim Fetzer on C-SPAN during the LA conference last year, I was taken aback by how sincere and genuine (I thought) he was. I trusted him. But we all now know what Fetzer is about.
In my view, having Shayler represent us AT ALL is harmful to our movement whether he mentions outlandishly stupid things now or the next time.
stop this nazi like "if
stop this nazi like "if someone says something then they are this or that"... total bullshit.
Fact is this is a well done documentary presenting all the latest relevant information and blows the BBC's yellow journalism out the window. He does not promote himself, or try to promote his own theories.
"People who are still unfamiliar with 9/11 truth (pathetic as they are)..." basically says everything. No difference between your facism and Bush's when he says your either with us or against us.
Who made this documentary?
Who made this documentary? Why did they pick a proponent of Hologram-Cloaked-Missiles-and-Not-Planes-Hit-The-Towers nonsense to narrate?
people tend to overanalyze
people tend to overanalyze and blow things out of proportion around here. truth is, your right, he doesnt mention holograms or anything and the average person watching this likely wont come away with the name of the person who narrated it as much as they will the information in the film itself. it does a pretty good job of showing the BBC for what it is in my opinion. nice job.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Overanalyze? A proponent of
Overanalyze? A proponent of NPT is narrating this. That should automatically send up a red flag, and it should be viewed with critical suspicion. Production qualities be damned.
and you and i are 9/11 truth
and you and i are 9/11 truth activists who quickly pick up on that. PERSPECTIVE. the average person watching this wont remember his goddamn name while they will be left with the impression that the BBC is a problem. i wasnt attacking you personally i was responding to Carlos but thanks for voting me down again buddy.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
I don't take any of this
I don't take any of this personally. I have had my "person" violated by the state and this is nothing in comparison. I vote because I have that privilege and exercise it at will, according to my conscious.
The problem with you argument is that VIDEO has a very very very long tail, it tends to last and spread. Shalyer having association with anything should not be promoted by 9/11 Truthers. He has already shown his true colors and to pretend he is just mistaken is a mistake. It is a battle of credibility, they are trying to salvage his, why help them.
Glad you're back!
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Glad to be back!
Glad to be back!
mmm...
Sorry to hear about you "person" being violated by te state. Happens to us all every day. Was there something extraordinary about the recent violations of your "person" that you would like to share?
"I vote because I have that privilege and exercise it at will, according to my conscious."
Is voting a priviledge or is it a Right? The two are not synonymous. If it is a priviledge, then it can be taken away. If it is a Right, then exercise it, forcefully if necerssary.
I know I sound like a broken record but, thsi is for those who still don't get it yet.
If you don't know what your Rights are, you don't have any. You only have those Rights that you are willing to defend.
Welcome back, I guess. Sorry but, I didn't realize you were gone. Sheeple syndrone?
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
911blogger is a private
911blogger is a private entity, and as such they have absolute authority, any benefits that I recieve from 911blogger, such as voting, is given to me, thus it is a privilage, and not a right.
edit: My right to vote on the otherhand is in the US Constitution, and as We the People have the authority to grant the Government its very existence my Rights are not granted by the Government.
I chose "most" of my words carefully and fully understand what my rights and responsiblities are.
I choose not to go into ANY details... Just brought it up for those who were around when I left, and to illustrate the difference between getting personally offended on an online forum verse in person. They are worlds apart.
I left right after 1/8/07 - around the time that strange vapor/aresol appeared in NYC then disappeared - the Zinc Oxide laden one... I guess I stepped on someones toes.
"vapor/aresol appeared in NYC then disappeared-the Zinc Oxide"?
foot deodorant?
Could you provide a link to something more specific without putting your person in danger?
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
Gas Odor Unexplained
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/tags/gas%20odor
it happened before as well but before it smelled like cookies or something, something pleasant, perhaps a year before. Again unexplained. Also that day dozens of birds were found dead around a Texas courthouse, you will have to forgive my memory - it is hazy.
Didn't mean much until i remembered how the limbic system tightly interweaves memories with the sense of smell... My conclusion was a psyop/research. (187 = Murder)
This coupled with the fact that it happened before - again no source was found, and the quick statement from Bloomberg that the ordor is "harmless" while at the same time they could not identify "WHAT" it was fits signifies something going on. Ultimately it was blamed on, get this, NJ "Swamp Gas".
Also: http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_008104349.html - eyewitness accounts
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=54578 - the "Maple syrup" smell incident - again unexplained
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/83742.aspx - mention of incident in Austin, TX at end of this one.
http://gothamist.com/2007/01/08/maple_syrup_was.php - shows work crews and shows the "limbic" system graphic...
http://gothamist.com/2005/10/28/maple_sugar_smell_mystery.php - more maple syrup incident info (locations)
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=4915039 - this HAD a video from local news about the incident - text still there but the video is now about the recent bomb rendered safe in the UK this week (strange) - the link to images though do show the image that was in the video - the cloud that was hugging the water as it moved over the river headed TO NJ.
Not quite Carlos. Maybe I'm
Not quite Carlos. Maybe I'm not 100% right about everything...but I'm certainly not like Bush. Nice try though buddy!
Fetzer and Shayler have both
Fetzer and Shayler have both taken clearly irrational positions, they have done so consistently. It is their behavior which has demonstrated their intention to do harm to the legitimacy of this movement.
David Shayler went to prison
David Shayler went to prison for his beliefs, and it wasn't a 5 star hotel.
The establishment tried to break that man, and he survived it, bruised and battered
but still alive. There may have also been attempts on his life, he's been in more than one suspicious car wrecks/crashes.
He isn't an ardent fanatical NPT advocate, he doesn't continuously push NPT!!
He does however continously and clearly states 9/11 was an inside job.
It was alright until the
It was alright until the issue of what hit the Pentagon was addressed. BLARGH! I didn't rate it too low though.
goddamn Pentagon that thrust
goddamn Pentagon that thrust the 9/11 issue into viral status on the net when almost nobody questioned 9/11 at all! goddamn Pentagon issue that helped to recruit countless individuals to the movement when it was in its infancy!(remember the Pentagon flash video? millions do.....). i swear, some people take this "honey pot" shit too far sometimes and react way too harshly, almost comparing it to "no planes" or mini nukes. the Pentagon questions and anomalies have been an obvious net gain for us(ive been doing this for years now and have seen first hand how effective its been) and if the government FINALLY comes out with a video of Flight 77 i will eat the largest pile of crow ever around here, i promise i will apologize to everyone here for falling for the "honey pot". something tells me thats not very likely.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Just because the Pentagon
Just because the Pentagon issue helped the 9/11 Truth Movement doesn't mean that the no-757 theory is correct.
757 at the Pentagon
The entire OCT is suspect.
I'm wary of anyone who suggests that asking questions is an agressive disinfo act.
That the network videos of the attacks were altered is a fact . . . . beyond that . . . . we really need a new investigation to determine what happened that day.
http://www.truthcult.com
Need a new descriptor...
for events with somewhat equivocal evidence (more or less) which then serve as foci for contentious arguing and which thereafter serve to disrupt unity on the issues all do agree upon and inhibit our actual moving on to 'act' and 'do' the things that must be done to further the movement and expose the nwo.....
we are all growing and learning..... and will continue to do so. But we must also 'do more'.
==================================================================
"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." (Goethe)
divisive comes to mind (ala
divisive comes to mind (ala God, Gays and Guns)
If the goverment releases video
of flight 77 after nearly 6 years, it seems to me that with unlimited budget they could figure out some way to make it look like what ever they wanted. I wouldn't believe anything they released now.
I remember on 9/11 asking myself why they "don't show the plane crash" in the news when they were discussing Flt 93 and 77.
Another thing I've wondered was if a plane DIDN'T hit the pentagon and the plan was to say it DID, why they didn't stock the part of the pentagon they were "reinforcing" with plane parts?
I still think about Mike Walters explaining how the wings folded back and went into the hole with the fuselage and how the sight of the AA jet "diving in at a unrecoverable angle is forever seared in my mind" of James S. Robbins, a national security analyist and contributor to NRO who also witnessed the crash. Were there any non-government or media people who witnessed the sme thing?
Don't Overlook Value
This could be used a resource for discussions which involve topics from the BBC's Debunking 911 hit piece. You don't have to recommend this video but watch it and take from it the pretty good smack down points it makes against the BBC hit piece. Watch it and don't ever recommend it to anyone if that is securing for you; or recommend it with a label warning, i.e. be careful, this dude is an ex MI5 agent, a former professional deceiver. It can't hurt to look at.
It seems to follow DRG's lead...
...of Debunking The Debunkers.
I suppose I'd really like to see videos which really expose the fraud of the OCT and easily allow the viewer to understand the history of the 911 debate so far. For that reason, I'd like to see separate but related videos which concentrate on each "component" of the 911 attacks ie. pre-911 warnings and research, the towers, wtc7, the faa/norad botched interceptions, the pentagon, the anthrax attacks, and finally...war planning and the media blitz on WMD, etc.
Then whatever part of the argument you happen to find yourself debating with someone, you can easily wip out a detailed video with all sorts of useful expository graphics and keen presentation of complex information. Saves a lot of argumentation and verbiage.
BTW...Can anyone read the music credits on this film? I liked the music in part s of the film and wanted to
download more by that/those musician/s.
It looked like 'Gyu' or 'Gya' and 'Sciteks' or something like that... the resolution is not good.
Appreciate it, if you know.
Concerning the Pentagon...
the ONLY thing that should be addressed as far as the Pentagon is concerned is why ANYTHING was able to strike it. Why the anti-aircraft defense system didn't perform its standard operating procedures. Why fighter jets weren't there to intercept *whatever it was* that hit the Pentagon. Why NORAD didn't interfere and why no one was held accountable. Why it was the section of the Pentagon that was being renovated...the part that was the furthest away from the "top brass". These should be the ONLY overriding issues when it comes to discussing the Pentagon on 9/11. Not the DISTRACTING issue of *what* hit it. Frankly, I don't give a flying FUCK what hit the Pentagon. All I care about is that it was left vulnerable INTENTIONALLY.
For this post, you get my
For this post, you get my applause. Well said.
The section of the Pentagon
The section of the Pentagon which was hit, it was partially occupied by the auditors working on the now famous missing trillion dollars from the Pentagon budget. The auditors were killed. This point helps me understand why a missile might have been used as opposed to a commercial jetliner because I tend to believe that a commercial jet did crash into the Pentagon simply because it makes no sense as to why they would use planes at the WTC but not at the Pentagon. I often think that the culprits are setting up the Truth Movement so if and when they release all of the Pentagon videos, it would act as a vacuum and pull the wind out of our sails and push a lot of people away from pursuing the Truth any further. However, knowing that it was essential to kill the group of auditors looking for the missing trillion bucks, perhaps the culprits couldn't rely on a mostly hollow aluminum bodied commercial jet liner to actually penetrate the fortified and bomb resistant Pentagon. The new wing of the Pentagon was upgraded with powerful defense against such things as bombs and kamikaze airplane attacks.
very very well said. i'm
very very well said. i'm sick of this pontificating of missiles and uav's and old fighter planes and such. that isn't really important especially when it's just that..pontificating on speculation. because a 757 to have hit there is just as provable, if not more.
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html
all of the anomaly shit surrounding the SITUATION is enough to go on and provides consistency not to get into 'other than 757'...because we know pretty well there wasn't any subsitution for the WTC planes..why would they do it for the pentagon?
No/other-planers of the WTC tend to use that totally backwards and say that since they are convinced the pentagon was hit other than a 757, then the wtc must have been hit by other than 767's.
you might want to add the fact Hanjour was a dumbass and highly unlikely to have hit the very ground floor of the pentagon (barely clipping a section of concrete a few feet away from it)
why at the Pentagon? out of
why at the Pentagon? out of necessity. its the nerve center of our military and its expected that will be protected. it wasnt. and it was hit well after it was clear we were being "attacked". this is one of the many reasons why i personally dont think it was Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. and please dont try and say that if you believe that something other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon that you believe in "no planes" at the WTC. i dont believe in "no planes" anything.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
"and please don't try and
"and please don't try and say that if you believe that something other than flight 77 hit the pentagon that you believe in 'no planes' at the WTC"
i didn't try and say that. in no way did i try to conflate 'non-757' believers with no planers. it just so happens that no-planers use the logic of no-757 to then assume no-767's at the wtc. thinking if one is substituted, they all are. those guys have it backwards. it should be that since 767's hit the wtc, that the pentagon would likely have been a 757. no substitutions.
seeing as no-planers generally very much believe the 'non-757' theories, i'm not saying that all people who believe 'non-757' are no planers. x follows y, but y doesn't necessarily follow x.
Your reasoning is deeply flawed! It is most important whether
a commercial airliner struck the Pentagon, or a drone, missile, or pre-planted explosives.
Exactly what is found & not found to have happened to the Pentagon is key evidence that can brake open & prove the inside job!
I want to know how flunky Hani Hanjour flew the airliner 250 miles back from Ohio, found the Pentagon, & did acrobatics to hit it when he couldn't fly a Cessna properly!
How did a Boeing 757 with a 125' wingspan disappear though an initial impact hole of 16' in diameter!
Where are the 2 huge steel/titanium engines, the 250 seats, & the luggage!
How did they ID 63 of 64 passengers with DNA when we're told the plane was obliterated!
etc., etc.,!
the 16' hole in diameter is
the 16' hole in diameter is a misunderstanding. the picture that is usually referring to shows a firehose spraying a bunch of water right below that hole...what you're not seeing is the 90+ feet of hole behind the spraying water.. where the wings would've gone.
the seats and luggage aren't going to be recognizable from a crash going that fast into the side of a reinforced building.
the engine parts were found
btw the 'punchout' hole of 3 rings..it didn't go through several walls...the bottom floor was connected without the walls in between each ring.
the dna of the passengers could be done off of blood and minute body parts.
there is simply a lack of photographs to go on to conclusively 'prove' that there is a lack of evidence of the plane.
read this article from a leading 9/11 truth site: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html
however one must wonder, if they got the dna of the hijackers...how do they know what to compare it to?
Is Jim Hoffman a "disinfo-agent"?
I don't know. But I was highly irritated with (and, in a way, saddened by) his unfortunate so-called investigation and report about the Pentagon. I basically completely disagree with his stance and most of his suppositions in that report. I think it was VERY poorly done. Although, another way to look at it is that it was a fairly well-written disinformation and propaganda piece. So which is it? I don't know. It sucks either way. (the situation and his report) I thought about tearing it apart piece-by-piece, which wouldn't be too hard, but would take some time and effort, but I don't know if that would be worth the time and energy investment. (stuff like that usually ends up in a he-said–she-said scenario which is often a no-win situation for everyone) I think he will be shown to be wrong eventually because Truth and Reality will always win out in the end.
----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Forensic 9/11ologist
http://www.chico911truth.org/
R( \ )n P( \ )ul 2( \ )08 ==> A Woman's Right To Choose Is Sacrosanct!
you missed
You missed a few things. First, you got it right, why was the Pentagon hit in the first place is most important issue at the Pentagon. It's like in a murder investigation, knowing whether it was a 12 inch knife or a 6 inch knife that punctured the heart is not as important as the murder itself, or in trying figure out motive and clues to discovering the culprit. Also, Pentagon Officials have already committed crime by refusing a Judge's order to release all the available Pentagon footage from nearly 100 different cameras; Judicial Watch began the demand nearly four years ago and continue to press for the release. If the Pentagon complied we could see whatever it was that hit the Pentagon. Another thing that sparks my interest is the section of the Pentagon which was hit, it was partially occupied by the auditors working on the now famous missing trillion dollars from the Pentagon budget. The auditors were killed. This point helps me understand why a missile might have been used as opposed to a commercial jetliner because I tend to believe that a commercial jet did crash into the Pentagon simply because it makes no sense as to why they would use planes at the WTC but not at the Pentagon. I often think that the culprits are setting up the Truth Movement so if and when they release all of the Pentagon videos, it would act as a vacuum and pull the wind out of our sails and push a lot of people away from pursuing the Truth any further. However, knowing that it was essential to kill the group of auditors looking for the missing trillion bucks, perhaps the culprits couldn't rely on a mostly hollow aluminum bodied commercial jet liner to actually penetrate the fortified and bomb resistant Pentagon. The new wing of the Pentagon was upgraded with powerful defense against such things as bombs and kamikaze airplane attacks.
You left out...
...Why are we supposed to believe that the evildoers had to perform an impossible manuever to hit the goddamn thing in the first place?
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
Link to Google Vid..
A link to google Video would be useful..
Edit: Nevermind found it: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1882365905982811133&q=david+sha...
http://www.mime11.com - 911 Videos + Clips
Why?
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
Because many people
Because many people download, share and host the actual videos.
Google Video if you hadn't noticed is still in Beta phase. If google disappears - say goodbye to all of your video references and your website's search engine optimization with all of those obsolete video links.
http://www.mime11.com - 911 Videos + Clips
Oh shit!
Really? I didn't know google was still only beta. I thought that they were well into ver. 1.x already. Damn, I better get busy. There must be at least 60 or 61 terrabytes of shit I haven't downloaded yet and will just DIE if I don't have it. Not to mention the embarassment that would be caused by obsolete video links on my Myspace account. I don't know about you but, I hope that never happens to me. It was kill my social network.
Do you really think google will disappear? They seem so, so, uh... big. It's hard to believe that one day they would just up and disappear. Unless, of course, a big space ship came along, like from Xyclon-V or something, and fired some sort of weird magnetic ray at Mountain View, California and all of a sudden, you know, poof! I was wondering, since all their server farms are on the internet and the internet is the kind of connected sort of thing, would they disappear, too. Come to think about it, I'm connected on the internet, too. Shit! I don't even know if the Windows firewall will stop weird magnetic raygun attacks (WMRA). I sure hope Microsoft has an update for this unacceptabe security flaw soon or I'll have to buy a Mac. They really need to get us a a malicious raygun tool.
Jeez! I'm getting really freaked out just thinking about it. Poof! And no more google. Shit!
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
whatta shame...
"I don't care enough about 911 Truth anymore to type that much dude."
Try mouse-driven copy/paste then. Everything that could possibly ever be typed already has been. <:-P
BTW:
http://www.mime11.com
nice site! I mean it, too, even though I hate nearly all sites that are flash driven because they, well....suck. I really just don't like being dependent upon one single megacorporation (Adobe/Macromedia) to view web content. Not to mention, it really fucks with mouse-driven copy/paste.
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
Oops, DP.
Sorry. Double post. I'm just so freaked out.
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
The Idiot's Guide To Conducting War Games
One point that I keep meaning to make and keep forgetting, and I don't think I've seen it anywhere else, is that one of the plan items for conducting "war games and other military exercises" and the like is "what to do in case of a real-world event during the exercise".
It's called SOP — Standard Operating Procedure.
That is why you hear the one military person being called asking "is this real-world or exercise?"
They specifically make contingencies for those sorts of things. (because they're not stupid)
So saying that the "military was confused and didn't know what to do and didn't react because of that" is absurd, ludicrous, and asinine. (and basically yet another lie)
----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Forensic 9/11ologist
http://www.chico911truth.org/
R( \ )n P( \ )ul 2( \ )08 ==> A Woman's Right To Choose Is Sacrosanct!
Shayler is bad news period,
Shayler is bad news period, I like most people here did think initially that he was on point, but for anyone who's actually looked into his more recent behaviour, the things he's been saying etc, Shayler is a very suspect individual who severely DAMAGED the Truth Movement on national primetime mainstream radio. He did a good job of making the whole Movement look like a bunch of kooks all by himself, listen here;
http://www.911podcasts.com/display.php?cat=9998&med=0&ord=Name&strt=20&v...
For it's merits this is a very good film, it's well produced and it breaks down the BBC's strawmen and propagandistic bullshit exceptionally well, but the inescapable fact is this film has baggage and that baggage is Shayler. Remember he's not only spewed bullshit to millions about "No planes hitting the Towers" etc, he's also said shit like "Aliens created mankind". This guy does not represent 9/11 Truth as we are trying to smash the very "kooky conspiracy theory" stereotype that Shayler is INVITING people to associate with 9/11 Truth. He's "ex"-intelligence and bad news for us.
How quickly they forget...
Apparently, all Fetzer would have to do to redeem himself is reign in the madness for an hour's worth of quality documentary narration... it's probably in the works. What a chuckle they must be getting over at MI5 or 6 or whatever the fuck it is.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
David Shayler isn't a crazed NPT advocate...
Steve Jones carried out a scientific investigation which set out of prove that Jesus appeared
to the native americans.. However I still think his theories on physics are spot on.
And so David Shayler & his new age beliefs have nothing to do with 9/11. David was a counter intelligence officer that went to PRISON for exposing government lies and false flag terror.
David Shayler isn't a crazed NPT advocate, he just says clearly "look yourself and make up your own mind, the point is whatever hit those towers there is no way they could have collapsed in the way they did without the use of explosives. 9/11 is a false flag operation. That is the point."
This is a good film it's had 300,000 views in two days I think that says it all.
exactly, and of the 300,000
exactly, and of the 300,000 or so who've seen it so far, i wonder how many said-"let me go look up this David Shayler guy now". im guessing not many. but like i said, people have knee-jerk reactions around here to certian people(and rightfully so) but have trouble putting some things into proper perspective. its a good documentary that doesnt once mention "no planes" and most people who see it will see it as that and not read into it as much as the people on this board do. i dont trust David Shayler but that isnt the point here. if i was new to 9/11 truth and this was the first documentary i saw i would not come away thinking "wow, i have to look up David Shayler right now", i would come away feeling like the BBC is cowardly or worse and that the official story of 9/11 is seriously lacking credibility. but hey, it has David Shayler so forgive me for thinking rationally and vote me down you petty bastards.................
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
"David Shayler isn't a
"David Shayler isn't a crazed NPT advocate..."
Oh, I think he is actually;
"Yes, I believe no planes were involved in 9/11... The only explanation is that they were missiles surrounded by holograms made to look like planes... Watch the footage frame by frame and you will see a cigar-shaped missile hitting the World Trade Center... I know it sounds weird, but this is what I believe."
http://www.newstatesman.com/200609110028
No shit huh "Sherlock". Anyone who can't see the damage Shayler has done, or is too much of a gullible naive assclown to question "ex"-intelligence officers when they associate themselves with political groups, act normal for about a year and then start to make those groups look like nutjobs, is an A-Grade fool and does a MASSIVE disservice to the effort actually concerned with 9/11 Truth succeeding.
Here's another quote for you to get that pipe & magnifying glass out with Watson and sniff at;
“The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments.” - Friedrich Nietzsche, German philosopher (1844 - 1900)
Yeah David was quoted out of
Yeah David was quoted out of context by the New Statesman magazine in a hit piece interview, which interestingly you are quoting here. He issued a complaint to the New Statesman about the interview.
He has gone on to say on numerous interviews "whatever hit the towers isn't of primary importance and is distracting people from the fact that 9/11 and 7/7 were false flag terror attacks"
I'm not going to argue about NPT, or in favour of NPT. However I do support Shayler and I've got a lot of respect for someone who risked his life for the the truth.
I agree with Shayler on this, the planes/no planes is a side show issue, I don't know what hit those buildings, was it the actual planes, military planes, or video-fakery, I don't know.
This is a good documentary and 300,000+ people have watched it, and many millions more will.
Save the ad hominims Bruce Lee and make like the moon.
"Yeah David was quoted out
"Yeah David was quoted out of context..."
No, here he is saying it on video, along with "aliens created mankind" garbage;
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i-87m0TqrQM
Are you going to say he took himself out of context next? Shayler is either very stupid, like the people who still support him, or he's still MI5/British Intelligence, simple as that.
Nice video...
Nice video...
Samarian Tablets??!
edit: just looked around for 2 minutes - geez this Shayler guy is subtle and yet WAY over the top at the same time. He is trying to hit all of the paranoid schizophrenic buttons at the same time.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jL
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jLEDN5-KWFE
He sounds oh so credible until about 7:10 (about 4:00 left if you watch the embedded version)- then he goes NPT (just watch his smug facial expression as he knows he has just mindfucked the host)
I believe in a lot of crazy shit, too
As does everyone else here posting. (even if it's your personal psychotic religious beliefs, if you will, including anti-religious beliefs, which in their own way are often even more psychotic than religious beliefs (i.e., in their own way they are religious (-like) beliefs) — and if you truly think you don't, then you are truly bat-shit crazy! and need to get a grip and exercise some introspection and self-awareness)
Some of it (my 'crazy shit') I believe in strongly, others in just kind of a "that's interesting, or would be" way, and everything in between.
And then Reality set in.
I can talk UFO's and space aliens and fake moon landing theories and the like with the best of them. But I am also able to take a step back and talk about "reality", as well, and differentiate between belief and reality. As are most people, even if you have to pin them down and force them to do it. We are all usually able to act that way, more or less. (agreed, some are better at it, and some are worse)
I wouldn't put it past Shayler to mess with people, because that's what people like him like to do. It's what they do for a living. (if they can, and he did for awhile) And if they can't do it for a living, they do it for a hobby. But you have to take the person as a whole. No one of us is perfect (or 'normal') by any means or description.
It doesn't hurt to wonder about a person's agenda(s), and in fact it is usually important to do so (more so in some instances and scenarios than others), but you (we) should also try as hard as possible to not be too paranoid and not turn one specific incident (or so) into a generality. That is falsity, not (real) truth. That is not reality.
People are seriously getting WAY too wrapped up in this "left gatekeeper" and "disinformation agent" and similar crap. Your paranoia is running away with you. (and if you think it's not, then, again, you need to step back and take a good hard look at yourself, if you are able to do so — which is not easy) Yes, it does exist. Seeing it around every corner is not a good thing, and is involved more with self-importance and related issues than reality. (more often than not)
We've had some lay-psychology stuff posted here, and I hope it has opened people's eyes about why they, and others, act and react the way they do. Just try to keep in mind that, acting and thinking paranoid for a sustained amount of time changes the way you think and believe. It's like a (bad) habit, which is then difficult to break. You will find yourself doing it subconsciously without even thinking about it. And it's not easy to stop yourself and force yourself to take a step back and try to gain a more normal and clear-headed attitude and mindset and such. But it is important that we all do so.
I find myself falling into these traps, and sometimes it's not so easy to work my way out. And I see it WAY too much in the 9/11 people I interact with, "in real life", and on the net. (like most things like this, it's almost always easier to see it in other people rather than in yourself, and, of course, "they don't want to hear it") Inevitably it will hurt you, though, and the movement, and none of us wants that.
If I try real hard, I can almost see how I was, what I was like, how I thought, etc., before I got into 9/11 Truth, and when I compare that to me now, it becomes pretty clear what has changed, and I try to use that as a way to judge if I am "off track", or not. It kind of works, but it's not particularly easy to do.
----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Forensic 9/11ologist
http://www.chico911truth.org/
R( \ )n P( \ )ul 2( \ )08 ==> A Woman's Right To Choose Is Sacrosanct!
i like that quote at the
i like that quote at the bottom
makes for a good signature
edit
David Shayler is
n'tacrazedNPT advocate...No Planes
I have seen helicopter news video that shows explosions in the tower without any planes. I have no way to evaluate this so I haven't made up my mind. Someone telling me that "its crap" or "nuts" doesn't do it for me.
My modus operandi: I look at it, take it in and then move on.
Today I'm closer to believing that "no planes" is a possibility. The OCT is such a big lie that I'm agnostic about all claims until I see facts that either rule it in or out.
We need a new investigation . . . period . . . show me the planes . . . . they don't evaporate . . . there are pictures of plane artifacts but no serialized part numbers . . . . they always find these . . . . no black boxes . . . there is a reason to doubt everything about the OCT.
The Shayler documentary does show what a complete twit Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics is. For that, it is worth watching. He is basically the lead researcher for the OCT according to the BBC.
Clip of Daniel Sunjata and William Rodriquez:
http://www.alexjonesfan.com/william_rodriguez/
Movement still drowning in bullshit
The doc is well done, and should be cannibalized by us. BBC has plummeted into disinfoland, and Shayler is right on that.
Unfortunately, Shayler himself may very well live in disinfoland, and so we are in a paradox.
Did he actually endorse the "no planes" thing? That's just insane.
And these no planers hanging around, sniffing at the perimeter. Get a life (grow a brain).
As for the hole in the pentagon, the arguments were dishonest and the size of the hole was deliberately misrepresented (as usual). This was a particularly weak spot, and we need to get back to reality on this issue. It's been "Loose Change"d to death, and we come off looking like dropout morons, as a whole.
As to this:
"Steve Jones carried out a scientific investigation which set out of prove that Jesus appeared
to the native americans.. "
Wasn't this debunked that it's a DIFFERENT "Steve Jones?"
70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11
John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.
I'll watch this tonight, but
I'll watch this tonight, but I'ld like to comment on the name-calling on NP'rs... I never considered NPT, there is a lot more
important information and exploration to be done, but I never felt the urge to call NP nuts or insane.
I don't like Fetzer either, but thats not just because of the NPT.
But, recently, I watched September Clues, and double checked some of their videos, by comparing it with original footage.
This video made my tummy rumble, like it did when i watched the Pharmacratic Inquisition, a few years ago.
People, I have to say, the ORIGINAL footage of that day, exposes the fact that almost ALL videoz, broadcasted LIVE on 9/11
had been tuned / editted / had planes added / hidden ... And later plane videoz by "amateurs"... Only one video seems to be legit,
maybe 2, but all you see on them is a missile :)
It also list dozens of eye witnesses, all being involved with the media (producers, edittors, owners, top reporters...), and spewing
very much anamolies... Its insane, when you look at it... Come on, for all of you who just hate the No Plane Theory,
just watch the first seven minutes orso and decide to look further, or look away.
Let me add that I'm not trying to promote this theory. I just find it kinda normal that some ppl are considering a scenario with diverted
planes and missiles being used...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeIVD5wT4KE
peace
Hiya Mr. 24 minutes
peace0be
( Home » user account » peace0be )
History
Member for
24 min 50 sec
True... I finally decided to
True... I finally decided to register when I got fed up with the negative feedback in this valuable place, and maybe post a reply now and then.
See your comment... How do you expect to be part of this blissfull path of truth and love, when you already got trapped again in the same old....
peace
Every day is a new day to
Every day is a new day to me, I am free in every way shape and form.
You don't seem to be free
You don't seem to be free enough to avoid frustration and be open for other viewpoints...
Come back later.
x
On this issue I am not the
On this issue I am not the least frustrated. Shayler is controlled and a poison pill. The facts (his own words) are laid out for you to see, who is close minded?
"You cannot wake a man who feigns sleep"
Get a new persona, this one was played much too soon....
Shayler is controlled...
Shayler is controlled... LoL... As is any1 else...
Next.
LOLZ
lmao
Yeah sure, generally speaking the Greeks do want to invade the city - everyone knows that - but you see, it's just not like that this time. Do you see them carrying weapons? And look at this wonderful, beautiful horse they've brought us... it's a gift to us! What's the harm!? Why can't we all just get along? PEACE!
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
David Shaylers credibility
It is not necessary to cast mud on each other in this forum.
David Shayler comes from a whole different background than many of those posting comments here. I have listened to the radio and television links posted by Bruce Lee Styles as evidence that he would be "bad news" for 9/11 truth. Not so, in my opinion. He is actually doing something, and on the main stream media no less. You have to picture that this is the same media that carefully creates programs like the Feb 18th 2007 "9/11 Conspiracy Files" to uphold the "Minister of Truth" version of the events of September 11th. These media people try to play slick, more so than you would find on US media. They do their best to make Shayler sound like a lunatic. David Shayler, having actually been a part of MI6, has an unusually bendable mind. These people dream up the most mind boggling spins and concoctions, we "common mortals" often think they are too way out to be feasible or believable, but when you look at the track record of what the MI6 has been up to, their CIA / Pentagon PSy-Op counterparts look like dry old bureaucrats.. Often Blair is portrayed as the obedient poodle following Bush. I speculate that he is more obedient to the dictates of MI6 than of the Bush State Department, and the state department is lock-step with fellow-felon MI6, because these are the more witty guys with cool "James Bond" style. It was curious how the same UK company that had the contract on reinforcing the book-keeping wing of the Pentagon (that got hit a few weeks later) was also installing "cabling systems" in WTC 7 (that the BBC reported had suddenly completely collapsed 27 minutes before it happened) during approximately the same period. I suggest we listen carefully to David Shaylers personal analysis, and especially try to learn how people within the MI6 might function. If something upsets you in his reasoning, identify the specific thing that sounds too outrageous for you, but please do not poo-poo a fellow 9/11 truther who has gone through great difficulties in order to let us know about his apprehensions.
Thank-you David Shayler, and people like Sherlock Holmes whose opinion I share on this.
drbeeth
"unflinching, unswerving, fierce intellectual determination, as citizens, to define the real truth of our lives and our societies is a crucial obligation which devolves upon us all. It is in fact mandatory. ( Harold Pinter )
.. totally. we need to be
.. totally.
we need to be above the limited mindset that attacks personalities. Attack the substance - and the substance of this video is generally top notch.
I fully appreciate the concerns over NPT, but lets be a little less agro towards people who - on the face of it - have done A LOT for raising the awareness of thousands of people, in regard to flase flag ops.
He may well be a double agent, but in doing so - it will have backfired 5 fold in my opinion: our evidence will outweigh any kind of labels that may be associated with us.
If he isn't then he is perfectly entitled as a free human being to have his theories, which I believe to be pretty damn crazy. But i'd rather that world, than one where everyone had to think the same... thats exactly what we are fighting against in this movement.
As long as he does not shout about NPT from the rooftops at every opertunity, then I can accept him talking about it when asked - what would you rather, he lied about his convictions?
"we need to be above the
"we need to be above the limited mindset that attacks personalities. Attack the substance - and the substance of this video is generally top notch."
wow, what a totally rational statement to make. expect to get voted down because of it. the mob mentality here is astounding and on par with the Faux News crowd in some instances. watch this video and come away thinking the BBC is a fraud and not much else. i just dont see the problem. talk about blowing shit out of proportion. Shayler isnt representing anything here, he did a voice-over and left his bullshit hologram theories completely out of it and produced a pretty good video. most people who see it wont even remember the guy. most people are simply not as entrenched as the people on this board and myself are. jesus people, perspective........
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
As mentioned in an earlier
As mentioned in an earlier post, I believe it is right to wonder about Shayler, but wrong to trash this video or him personally.
9/11 Truth is a strong, evidence-based movement. We are not going to be done in by a couple of wrong speculations.
Is he disinfo or not? Nobody knows right now, so speculation about HIM is not much different than speculation about what hit what when where and why.
For people who are adamant about Shayler being disinfo, please remember that just about every decent movement in history has been hijacked by extremists who will not tolerate "deviant" points of view. These extremists do real harm and eventually ruin the goals for which many had fought.
The kind of disinfo that might do real harm to us when it comes (and it probably will) is a major name(s) in the movement backing away and saying they have come to understand that they were wrong all along and that the OCT is largely true. This is what we want to watch out for.
Think about it, would Shayler (or Fetzer for that matter) really damage their "disinfo" value as just described by talking about aliens or DEW now? I seriously doubt it.
Keep an eye on Shayler. Maybe help him tailor his message if you think that he should. But there is no reason to attack him so viciously or try to kick him out of the 9/11 Truth movement. It is a sign of weakness, not strength, to do that with him.
________________
JFK on secrecy and the press
I used to hear stuff like this ALL THE TIME
In the Animal Rights Movement. (and other movements, over twenty-plus years) It finally got to the point of being pathetically funny. (and, yet, also kind of sad, as these things usually and often do)
Almost literally, every week, or so, someone in the movement (usually a self-important person, of which there were many, because they flock to these kinds of things) would say, "Well, that is the last nail in the coffin!" (that's going to 'destroy the movement' — with "that" being something someone said, or did, or didn't say, or didn't do, ad infinitum, ad nauseum) And what effect did all of these "terrible atrocities" have on the movement?
Ab-so-lute-ly none. (but especially so in the greater scheme of things)
People need to calm down and get a grip and try to see the forest for the trees. (but keep your eyes on the trees, do)
----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Forensic 9/11ologist
http://www.chico911truth.org/
R( \ )n P( \ )ul 2( \ )08 ==> A Woman's Right To Choose Is Sacrosanct!
Wasn't it MI5?
Otherwise I pretty much agree.
(No subject)
I completely disagree with your viewpoint
;0)
----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Forensic 9/11ologist
http://www.chico911truth.org/
R( \ )n P( \ )ul 2( \ )08 ==> A Woman's Right To Choose Is Sacrosanct!
Absolutely great
I think this is a really great documentary - easily one of my all-time favorites about 9/11. The media's role is something that needs more attention IMO, and David Shayler does an excellent job showing how biased they are.
However, I would like to hear him clearly say that he doesn't think holograms hit the towers before I can fully trust him.
Out the open
>>"we need to be above the limited mindset that attacks personalities. Attack the substance - and the substance of this video is generally top notch." wow, what a totally rational statement to make.
Shayler is an adult. He made his choices. He chose 'no planes'. When there is no consequence, 'no planes' remains alive and well, and eventually it wins.
Glad that most of the readers on here get it. They don't want to advocate any personality who is walking around with loaded luggage, waiting to dump their ' no planes' garbage when it can do the most damage. If we try to strip out the personality, more and more links, DVDs, events, news stories, etc. are tainted by those who didn't know. Once it's dropped, it trashes every place else it was.
There aren't many of these personalities. Of this particular caliber there are only Reynolds and Shayler at this point. These are people with long backgrounds in a potential enemy camp who are automatically taken in by the activists and the press but who are openly flaunting nonsense to the press to discredit us.
So I don't have an issue with naming names here. It's not about generic 'personalities.' It's about outrageous claims made by a handful of high-profile people who have access to MSM (or extremely prolific web media) claiming to be leaders of our movement, who clearly are not.
We should never be afraid to name these -
Fetzer, Wood, Reynolds, Shayler
Worse, all but Shayler have engaged openly in abusive attacks on other researchers.
Don't be afraid to name names in these cases. These, like the webfairy, are out in the open, in our faces.
you totally missed my point,
you totally missed my point, but hey, i voted you down too buddy :-)
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
wow. you guys move in packs
wow. you guys move in packs huh? i dont endorse or ever promote a guy like Shayler but for the purposes of exposing the BBC for what it is this is simply a good film.......oh why do i even fucking bother. this place has been getting almost cult like lately. yeah, Shayler is gonna bring the movement down with his little BBC expose. yep, real fucking likely. no fucking logic here, only rabid fucking attack dogs who cry "DISINFO" like parrots. i agree, Shayler is disinfo but try using some fucking perspective and put yourselves in the shoes of someone who hasnt been so entrenched in spreading 9/11 truth for however long its been for you. show this video to 40 random people and tell me if fucking ONE even remembers Shayler's name. but again, whats the point in common sense around here anymore?
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
I agree, be it, without the
I agree, be it, without the swears (though i still use them in my head :p).
And I feel that those, who are "FEARING" that any1 can "discredit" the truth movement by talking nutty stuff, still have to pick up some spiritual stuff :)
peace
Is Davin Coburn of Pop. Mech. old enough to legally buy a beer
or use an electric shaver? One thing that this excellent video shows is that two of the bogus researchers that Professor Griffin, an Emeritus PhD, has to deal with debate-wise in his "Debunking 9/11 Debunking" are Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics, who just got out of High School, and Bennie Chertoff, a 25 year old punk-ass bitch whose Israeli relative runs the DHS Bush Gestapo. These kids are like old-time propaganda agents for the Nazi Jungen school newspapers. I guess the CIA are recruitin' 'em right out of Junior High now. No wonder the Popular Mechanics publications read like they were written, argued, and researched by college freshman, because they were, and this is not to disparage the honest writing and research being done out there by college freshmen who possess a sense of ethics. No wonder these treasonous little kids don't want to show up for a national 9/11 debate against our professors and scientists. They would get totally pounded.
Davin is a sad child
http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopic=112392
I posted the goyette/coburn radio intervew here as well as a follow-up phone call from pumpitup.com (?).
I've been cross posting alot of the 9/11 blogger posts there.
I'm trying to get new people to look at this.
http://www.truthcult.com
torrent download
Can be found here: http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/stats.html?info_hash=b09b08cf6a16b6806...
sweet thanks
....do you have to sign up to download the torrent? or am I blind and not seeing the link?
"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments."
Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 191
German philosopher (1844 - 1900)
yes
You need to sign up to see torrent download link.