World for 9/11 Truth official Release
June 11, 2009
Today, one month after the initial pre-release launch World for 9/11 Truth, and three months before the eight and dark anniversary of the WTC attacks, we are proud to officially release our worldwide petition for a new and independent investigation into the 9/11 events. We also are very happy to also announce the important support we received from the below prominent 9/11 Truth activists.
“The World for 9/11 Truth petition is something that should have been created long ago. Thanks to you for creating it now. I support the petition with enthusiasm.”
— Prof. David Ray Griffin, Author of several 9/11 Truth books
“World for 9/11 Truth has a broad reach and appeal that I hope will quickly draw in massive numbers of people from all over the planet – all demanding a new WTC investigation.”
— Richard Gage, AIA, founder and leader of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
“I have visited your site and found it very informative and user-friendly. I support the NYC CAN initiative, to which I have contributed, and I support your petition which I have signed. I completely agree with this lofty yet achievable goal stated in your petition, seeking ‘a truly independent and public investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.’ ”
— Steven E. Jones, Emeritus Professor of Physics
“9/11 continues to affect us all. It has been used as the pretext for the unending ‘war on terror’, illegal wars in the Middle East, and the erosion of our civil rights and traditional freedoms in our own countries. Yet there is a mountain of evidence from credible experts around the world that contradicts the official account of 9/11 . Many politicians, architects, academics, engineers, intelligence whistleblowers, pilots, firefighters and government officials now demand an new enquiry. In the interests of justice for the victims and first responders, and the protection of democracy, we should all support this call.”
— Annie Machon, MI5 whistleblower and 9/11 Truth activist
Full News Release available at http://world911truth.org
We are calling on international governments to support our petition and to pressure the Obama administration for a new independent investigation.
We are calling on journalists from around the world — especially the U.S. journalists — to break the silence and to fully investigate these tragic events. This is your duty. Why is it that a lot of TV show hosts or journalists work hard to make the 9/11 truth movement look bad and “anti-patriotic”, but never had the guts to show WTC Building 7 collapse in 6.5 seconds on TV? You had 8 years to do it. Or more recently, to publicly investigate the unignited explosive residues of nano-thermite in the WTC dust. Stop this manufactured blackout.
We are also calling on the military personnel, the intel officers, and police forces from around the world to support our call for a new investigation. Join your voice to the 41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans who challenge the official account of 9/11.
We are asking every citizen from every country who doubts the Bush administration version of 9/11, to unite and sign our petition and to consider getting involved in the 9/11 Truth Movement. If we sit on our butts, nothing will happen. But if we unite, we will make history. We also need the support of all 9/11 Truth movement groups worldwide to spread this petition in your area. Help us reach out to millions of petition signers. It is overwhelmingly possible and it is our goal.
It is our responsibility to stand up and ask for a new independent investigation. We must stop supporting the empty concept called “war on terrorism” and the laws that erode our freedoms, based on the official and faulted conspiracy theory of the 9/11 Commission — which didn’t even mention the collapse of Building 7.
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety.”
— Benjamin Franklin, one of the USA Founding Fathers
Finally, we would like to dedicate our final words to President Barack Obama.
Millions of people from around the world demanding a new investigation is not something we can deny. It is not an ‘opinion’ to be debated. It’s a fact we must deal with. The real question is, are you capable of looking into the scientific and forensic evidence of controlled-demolition of the Twin Towers and Building 7? Will you defend and support a fair justice process of a new independent investigation, or will you sweep this file under the carpet like you are doing with the war crime accusations against the Bush administration for torture?
We need to bring those who are responsible for these events to justice, and we certainly do not support the use of torture to produce false confessions in the process.
Lest we forget, the commission was only set up because of pressure from 9/11 victim families, and over the stonewalling objections of the Bush administration — 441 days after the attacks. They didn't want an independent investigation at all, and when one was forced on them, this same administration ironically chose Henry Kissinger to head it. This scandal is well explained in the important documentary 9/11 Press for Truth. Mr. Kissinger had to resign due to conflict of interests and was repleace by Thomas Kean, who later said that "the 9/11 Commission was set up to fail". The Bush administration created another scandal when they appointed the executive director of the Commission, Philip Zelikow. Zelikow had implications in both the George H. W. Bush and the George W. Bush administrations. He was a member of George W. Bush's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and a member of the Bush-Cheney transition team. He never resigned even when pressed by family members.
If a person was shot in front of the World Trade Center, there would have been more of an urgent inquiry into that killing than was accorded the murder of thousands of people in broad daylight. There would have been a trial, witnesses giving sworn testimony, evidence presented in public for anyone interested to review and discern.
Where are the Pentagon tapes?
This petition was launched in the memory of those who have fallen before, during, and after 9/11/2001, of those who still suffer from it every day, and in the name of the 9/11 worldwide activists.
For justice and peace. Never forget.
Help us spread this petition far and wide.
World for 9/11 Truth Team
http://world911truth.org
- Montreal911Truth's blog
- Login to post comments
...
On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned people of the world hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent and public investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.
I can't endorse this. I'm sorry. As I said a long time ago, "the 9/11 Truth Movement I belong to does not put all of its' eggs into one basket."
"Mr. Kissinger had to resign due to conflict of interests and was replaced by Philip Zelikow, which was another huge scandal due to his implications in both the George H. W. Bush and the George W. Bush administrations. He never resigned even when pressed by the family members."
Tom Kean replaced Henry Kissinger.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
You ought to be ashamed Jon Gold...
...so should Richard Gage stop doing what he does because he focuses on CD? All you are doing is demoralizing people from supporting this great initiative. What have you done? You say you sacrifice so much and do so much, what is it exactly? Videos on youtube that get 300 views? Articles on here that last forever serving to inflate your ego that no one bothers to read because they are so long and boring?
You say CD is the bane of your existence. Truthers like you are the bane of my existence. Trying to poo-poo someone else's idea because it doesn't fit in with your definition of the movement. The movement would be a lot better off without people like you shitting all over new ideas before they even get off the ground. Get off your ass and do something and stop whining on the internet. You want to know why you have no life? Because you sit at your computer all day demoralizing fellow truthers instead of getting outside and meeting other truthers and doing something constructive. Your own self-loathing is evident in every word you write attacking this new initiative. Maybe you would feel better and support other people's initiatives if you came up with some initiatives yourself. And yes I've been around here awhile Jon and I know you've been here longer and posted many things, so I know you aren't a noob to this movement, just not the most effective activist that's all, and definitely not the most supportive. Perhaps you are best in a research capacity and not as an activist. In that case, STFU when new initiatives come out. WTF do you know about successful initiatives? Keep your opinions to yourself and stop denigrating the great work other truthers are doing. All your words are doing is tearing the movement apart.
Jon you say people attack the movement as crazy when they hear the CD argument, especially the MSM. You think they don't attack every argument as crazy? Stop wasting your time and losing your sanity trying to convince the wrong people. MSM will come on board when they have no choice, when the people overwhelmingly support 9/11 truth. CD is a big weapon we have to spread the truth to the people, who are the ones who really matter. Ironically one of the best MSM breakthroughs in recent memory was Richard Gage on KMPH FOX 26 where he talked exclusively about CD.
For the record, this petition asks for an investigation to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11, not exclusively CD. That will include the NORAD standdown, Flight 93, General Ahmed's wire transfer, and all the other suspicious events as well. But like it or not Jon, CD is the best argument we have. It is rock-solid, with thermitic chips in the dust to boot. I wholeheartedly endorse this endeavour, and if you don't, please keep it to yourself. All your negativity accomplishes is less morale for the movement.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
You...
Are certainly entitled to your opinion. However inaccurate it may be.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Was just reading your old post Jon...
...what happened to this part of your beliefs? "The 9/11 Truth Movement I belong to consists of people willing to work together, in spite of our differences regarding any particular theory." I guess your own standards don't apply to you, just everyone else.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
No...
...you are refusing to work together because of your difference over a particular theory. That is exactly the opposite of what you wrote. You are contravening your own standards. And go back and read it again Gold. It doesn't endorse CD. It merely says that the collapses are one of our biggest questions, which I think for 99% of truthers that is true. If it is not for you fine stay in your corner do whatever you want. Stop coming on here and shitting all over great ideas like this because YOU don't want to work together because of a difference of opinion over theories. You aren't helping.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
That's actually what you are doing...
...you are putting your pet theories above CD and refusing to work with others who put CD above your pet theories. Nothing here puts CD above anything else. It says "uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01" but because it singles out the mysterious collapses, YET SAYS NOTHING ABOUT CD, that isn't good enough for you because in your mind it is putting CD above your pet theories.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
No...
I'm putting absolute truth, absolute accountability, and absolute justice above CD. If you think that using the word "SPECIFICALLY" doesn't put CD above anything else, then I don't know what to tell you.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
You're using buzzwords...
...that don't actually mean anything to make yourself feel as if you are standing for something while actually standing for nothing. Grade 4 vocabulary review Jon. Specifically is not a synonym for exclusively. Keep putting your pet theories above CD and pretending not to be a hypocrite Jon. Hope it works out for you. The rest of us will actually keep fighting for something.
If you were a survivor of the USS Liberty attack you would be telling us other survivors not to mention that Israel attacked us because people call us crazy for it and have a hard time believing it. Instead we should focus on what Jon? Please enlighten the rest of us. You know what, don't bother. Next time keep your negativity to yourself. We'll be fine without it.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
And yet...
I haven't mentioned a single theory or piece of information, and instead, have focused on absolute truth, absolute accountability, and absolute justice for the 9/11 attacks.
How about we focus on that?
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Exactly...
...the most useless type of criticism, attacking those who question the collapses yet offering no other questions to focus on instead, just useless buzzwords like "absolute truth" that mean nothing and help no one.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
I suppose...
...you haven't endorsed Richard Gage's petition either, for its focus on CD instead of "absolute truth?"
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
Why...
Were we lied to about that day? How's that?
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
What lies?
Be more specific, offer proof, otherwise (heaven forbid) people will call you crazy. We were lied to about the reasons for the collapses, which apparently is not what you are talking about, so be more specific.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
No...
I'm done. You've been vicious, you've put words in my mouth, and all because I don't endorse a petition that is solely about controlled demolition. When you re-write this petition to encompass the entire message of 9/11 Truth, then maybe I'll endorse it.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
The petition is not solely about CD...
...now you are putting words in the petition's mouth. Again, specifically does not mean the same thing as exclusively. This petition is in support of Richard Gage's petition, so of course the collapses are focused on, but it asks for the full truth about all of the events of 9/11.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
Um
Why are you trying to get Jon to change his beliefs? He never once put down the CD hypothesis, in fact, he's promoted it.
Do you understand what the issue is?
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
I'm not trying to get Jon to do anything...
...except to stop demoralizing the movement with his negativity. He still hasn't answered whether he signed Richard Gage's petition which I would like to know. And he hasn't said what we should be focused on instead of CD. All he gives us is useless buzzwords like "absolute truth" which mean nothing and help no one so he can sound committed and principled while doing nothing and standing for nothing.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
KNOWAR,
If you wanted to know if Jon signed Mr. Gages petition, why not search it for his name? I signed it, but I wont be signing this one.
You said:
"And he hasnt said what we should be focused on instead of CD" Once again, this misses the point ENTIRELY. This has to do with the focus of the petition, not the focus of what individual activists should promote in truth actions. Thats up to you, and you shouldnt look for direction from Jon on this.
You said he is doing nothing and standing for nothing. This is not only insulting, but wrong on its face. The simple point of the matter is that a "worldwide petition for 9/11 truth" should talk about more than missing Pentagon tapes and controlled demolition. Be a little more respectful in your conversations with people.
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
ehh
I dont think you are getting what we're saying ..
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
well
What about all the evidence presented in Crossing the Rubicon or the Complete 9/11 Timeline? Why is the petitions sole focus on the controlled demolition hypothesis?
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
Thats a shame
Focusing on Silversteins 'pull it' comment as opposed to the fact the NORAD lied 3 times and were never taken to task over it, or that Dick Cheney has connections to PROMIS and was overseeing the Secret Service on the morning of 9/11 is frustrating.
Even though I am a supporter of the controlled demolition hypothesis, I find fault in the way the petition is written so as to pigeonhole the truth movement as the controlled demolition movement, and that is frustrating.
It is for these reasons alone that I've been less active in spreading 9/11 truth and more focused on educating people on peak oil and sustainability and preparing for the certain hardships to come.
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
The bottlenecking...
Of our message (which incidentally has been progressing over a number of years) into the Controlled Demolition hypothesis is the bane of my existence. I wrote that facts piece, and would you believe that people have been trained by our media to look for the one fact that has anything to do with CD, and denounce the entire article? The "movement" as a whole isn't helping either.
I have made "concessions" over the years, and have promoted CD, and have turned people to Steven Jones if they had a question about it. The same can not be said by the CD advocates. I'm sick of it. Those of us who helped to build the foundation of this movement didn't do so to give a platform to select individuals so everything else would be ignored.
I saw one of those CD advocates on here talking about their sacrfices for this cause. Sacrifices? SACRIFICES? Don't even get me f-ing started on "sacrifices."
The "message" of this movement as far as I'm concerned is not that "the buildings had explosives in them," but that we were lied to about that day OVERALL and there needs to be truth, accountability and justice.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Sacrifices
As prof. Jones was forced into early retirement due to and was threatened by somebody with ties to the DHS, as Kevin Ryan lost his job, as Mr. Gage lost his marriage, Barry Jennings got into trouble and was maybe even murdered, a firefighter was lured into a drug use trap, tested, then fired, I think plenty of sacrifices have been made on the 'CD' side. And I probably haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
What is the point of this diatribe against CD, using phrases such as 'bane of my existence', while most if not all of us here would not support any investigation or inquiry that merely addresses CD?
If there is anybody here who thinks the 9/11 truth movement is merely about controlled demolition, come forward.
Lastly, let me remind you all that professor Jones and Harrit have NEVER attacked Michael Ruppert and Jenna Orkin, but the opposite is true.
I've gotten...
Death threats from people promising to drill nails into my skull, crank calls, have lost the majority of my friends, have issues with family members, have had my Grandfather's name dragged through the mud by idiots, have had my Grandfather depicted as a homosexual by idiots posting pictures of old gay men having sex, and saying it's my grandfather, have had my father's house crank called, have spent $1000's upon $1000's of my own money, am suffering from severe medical issues (high blood pressure, migraines, panic attacks), and oh yea, I have no life. Also, I've been doing this a helluva lot longer than most CD advocates.
This isn't a diatribe. I am sick of this movement's message turning from "absolute truth, absolute accountability, and absolute justice for the 9/11 attacks" to "there were explosives in the building." Certainly not a diatribe.
It is the bane of my existence because when I write a facts piece, and someone singles out the one fact having to do with CD, and completely disregards the entire paper, I get furious. It is the bane of my existence because I see how the media has focused on CD, and made whomever they were talking to look like a fool. It is the bane of my existence because the media specifically focuses on that, and ignored everything else BECAUSE it's so easy for them to make people look like a fool with CD. It is the bane of my existence because I am sick of people saying to me, "oh, you're one of those people who think explosives were in the buildings... you're crazy" (not verbatim). I am sick of people like Larry Johnson focusing on CD, and ignoring everything else, and calling us nuts.
Maybe I need a break. Oh yea, sacrifice... day in and day out with no break for almost 7 years.
Edit: When the "debunkers" or "anti-truthers" jump on this statement to show how horrible the life of a truther is, I hope they will include the fact that I am PROUD of what I've done, and would do it all again in a heartbeat.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Well said, Jon
...
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
Appreciation
And somehow you don't think we appreciate that? Why do we draw artificial lines between some areas of 9/11 research and others?
I absolutely agree with you that any petition or inquiry which merely addresses CD is a joke. Who told you CD advocates think otherwise? I assure you nobody serious would build any argument for a new investigation on merely CD evidence. This is ridiculous. There is an avalanche of findings, such as in those lists you compile. Whisteblowers, foreknowledge, criminal negligence, dereliction of duty, think tank documents, FBI investigations, trial documents, conflicts of interests, abnormalities in the 9/11 commission proceedings, et cetera et cetera.
However, I don't think that the media made "whomever they were talking to look like a fool", with respect to CD. Rhetoric is irrelevant in empirical matters. It's very hard to stake your reputation as a scientist or researcher on the fact that the collapses of WTC 1, 2 and 7 were unnatural, knowing that it goes far outside of pervasive world view, far outside the scope of what is psychologically bearable for most people. Knowing that this psychological burden can be used a tool to undermine your credibility, as people will be inclined to crucify the messenger before they choose to accept the message. The notion that "it's so easy for them to make people look like a fool with CD" is false. It is easy to be a fool and believe the media, yes. There is a HUGE problem with the educational system and knowledge of technical subjects.
Ridiculization based on ad hominems, McCarthyism, lies, omissions, distortions and straw men is not what I would consider defeat. Such practices only further alienate me from such media, and make those who employ such tactics look like guilty stooges.
I admire your dedication and I appreciate your effectiveness. I have listened to your debate with Pat Curley. He was no match. Now please stop thinking CD researchers are somehow not on the same page. Again, I repeat that any investigation or petition based on only CD research is confined to the point of uselessness. I've been in it for about 5 years, and I have had my own adversity, but frankly, I'd rather not talk about it. Many of those who opposed me and ridiculized me now come to their senses. I'm sorry you and your family are harassed the way they are, these things are inexcusable and cannot be put right.
Lets not turn this into a pissing contest
about who made the most sacrifices.
No one is attacking CD or Jones and Harrit. Just because Mike Ruppert and Jenna Orkin have made some dismissive comments does not mean I support those statements.
What is at issue here is the "Worldwide petition for 9/11 truth" is really a "worldwide petition for CD advocates".
Do you ever wonder why anytime a truther is paraded on some FOX attack-fest, they always talk about CD? Think about that for a moment. What Jon and I are saying is that CD is more than welcome under the 9/11 truth umbrella, but that other EQUALLY important topics shouldnt be left out in the rain. This happens time after time, and its frustrating.
Case in point.
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
I think
everything should be brought to light. I agree that Building 7 is our ace in the hole but there is so much more to cover. Not one strand of the "Official Story" fits. It is so loaded with holes it looks like swiss cheese. A good group of lawyers would have a field day tearing the "Official Story" apart. The whole thing is a joke. Not worthy of Mad magazine.
After thinking about it
I think the petition should be re-written to be more inclusive to the aims of the 9/11 truth movement.
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
I just wrote on Facebook...
That my message concerning 9/11 Truth is that we were lied to about that day, and we need absolute truth, absolute accountability, and absolute justice. My message is not that "there were explosives in the buildings."
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
As a CD advocate
I support your message and demand that the petition be altered to include all areas of 9/11 research. Period.
!
Right on! Thats all Im asking for. Sorry it had to be a can of worms ..
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
CD at the expense of other issues?
First, CD has been proven by (1) physical evidence and (2) natural law [not to mention video evidence & eyewitness testimony]. It is no longer theory as one of the posters here suggests that it still is.
Second, CD is promoted (by some) and other issues not so extensively precisely because it has been proven and we have in our possession physical evidence (we being private citizens, not the State) .
From strictly a forensic point of view, proving CD in a technical way is a "slam dunk" (thanks for that, Mr. Tenet).
Proof of CD can be utilized to be the entre' into the other - equally deserving - issues precisely because it is technically non-controversial and we have physical evidence of it in our possession. To me, that is its value, its usefulness, in obtaining justice. The use of the CD argument is not in any way whatsoever an all or nothing proposition: we have the "murder weapon", now let's go to court and discover who pulled the trigger and what their motive was. That is what everyone is interested in. Proof of CD, which exists, just gets the show started, that's all. That's how I see it.
I agree
But I think we're losing focus here. We've got 2 pages of back and forth bickering over whether CD = 9/11 truth or not. Thats not the point. The point is that CD is the thrust of the petition for "Worldwide 9/11 truth", yes?
And a worldwide petition for "9/11 truth" should be about more than CD, yes?
EDIT:
I also wonder why the writing of the petition wasn't a collaborative effort by the best and brightest minds in the movement.
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
why does it need to be about more?
No, this is quite focused - that's the whole point! To me the analogy is like a resume. What is a resume for? To get a job? NO! To get an interview - that's where the job offer arises. Strategic use of CD is the same thing: it can get us into court because it is scientifically irrefutable evidence of a crime. We're not trying get a "job" with CD; we're only trying to get the "interview."
Mech Engr P.E.
NIST has admitted 2.25 seconds of free fall - case closed
So what can be done with a populace that simply does not understand the most simple, basic laws of physics --- like the simple and obvious fact that resistance slows things down? Can anyone hack their way through dense underbrush as fast as they can run on a cinder track? Can anyone run through a swimming pool filled with waist high water, as fast as they can run through an empty swimming pool? Can a running back push a 350 pound defensive tackle out of the way without being slowed down? Does anyone not understand that the phrase: "The weather is clear, the track is fast" means that a muddy (resistant) track slows down the horses? Does anyone fail to notice that they slow down on their bicycles when they sit up straight creating more air resistance?
NIST in admitting 2.25 seconds of free fall has admitted controlled demolition. The problem is entirely pyschological.
One problem with including
One problem with including all issues is that then we wade into no plane, no Boeing, overflight, swapping of planes, and on and on. The Montreal site states:
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20) No Evidence Of A 757 At The Pentagon. Despite the releases of 5 more freeze frame photos of the object hitting the Pentagon, there was absolutely no proof of a Boeing 757 at the scene [no luggage, seats, wheels, engines, fusel loge, etc., etc.] and the damage, when viewing the impact area, does not add up. Numerous photographs and video (rarely seen in mainstream media since 9/11) proves it. It should also be noted that FBI agents immediately confiscated videotape from a nearby gas station and hotel. Government also won’t release any of the film from the numerous cameras surrounding the Pentagon that would clear the air on this matter… why? They have told us that the plane incinerated – there is absolutely no way you can get a turbine engine that runs hot at 1800 Degrees Fahrenheit to incinerate., specifically when there wasn’t much of a fire.
21) No Evidence Of A 757 In PA. The official story of the Shanksville, PA crash is that the plane disintegrated and was absorbed by the unusual soil located at the site. The planes tail is 25 feet from the surface. There is little to no debris, just a large crater about 40 feet in diameter and 20 feet deep. The entire area is fenced off and very little has been recovered. “There is no plane.” “Nothing, Just this hole.” “…when we got there, there wasn’t anything.” ~ Shanksville Mayor Ernie Stull (one of the first to arrive at the crash site).http://montreal911truth.org
---------------------
Many researchers disagree with these points.
So calling for "all research" is opening up the mess of Big Tent and the associated claims around the planes that average people and the MSM use to easily paint us as nuts with "what happened to all the passengers," etc.
Strong points include demolition along with many of the points that Jon focuses on, but if we step outside of those we are into a swamp.
I apologize...
If I said anything that offended anyone, but my beliefs are my beliefs. They have served me well for the most part regarding 9/11.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Agree with Jon – and Victronix
As a staunch advocate of the CD-proof – not theory, proof – I still agree with Jon Gold and SnowCrash in this controversy. The truth is not only CD, it is the whole lot of evidence. Make noe mistake of it: The voice of Jon Gold is one of the most important on 911blogger.
CD-proof will not put Cheney behind bars; the Norman Mineta testimony could.
And thanks to Victronix: «So calling for "all research" is opening up the mess of Big Tent and the associated claims around the planes that average people and the MSM use to easily paint us as nuts with "what happened to all the passengers," etc.»
The difference is not forensic vs. circumstantial, but solid vs. weak. We have to select the best evidence. There are a lot of traps outside the forensic evidence as well. We have to focus on the facts that nail the culprits.
As chess players we should always think about possible counter moves. How can they possibly going to obstruct, foul up, make a mess of each point from us?
BTW, I am not optimistic when it comes to officialdom; remember how the House Select Committee on Assassinations led to nowhere.
I find this a pretty disappointing discussion!
If it is good for the cause and it's good information support it...
If you have a problem with what has been said talk to those who said it, to their face!
Whinny about words is simply silly.
Good luck to this process.
Jon, I wonder if you are a little lost with your approach here, it reads like your having a tissy fit of nothing!
Kind regards John
9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!
www.truthaction.org.au
Actually John...
My concerns are well founded. Just once I would like someone to say to me, "you're those people that support the 9/11 families, and 9/11 first responders, and are seeking truth, accountability, and justice for the 9/11 attacks" as opposed to "you're those crazy people who think explosives were in the buildings."
Am I the only one who gets pushed back by Controlled Demolition? I can't believe that to be the case.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Now that didn't work did it Jon?
But it is still the most important consideration and it's what motivates me!
But....you go with what is working Jon, so that we have a chance to get what you want....WHAT WE ALL WANT! That is JUSTICE for the victims and their families!
Get behind what's working, get behind "the Eleventh Day of Every Month Campaign" and get behind www.AE911Truth.org because they have the goods to get a real investigation into the 9/11 Attacks!
I'd like to see more people on the street talking to the people and believe me they get the TOWERS and I am a disciple (sarc) of the "Church of Controlled Demolition" because it posses conclusions and leads directly to the perpertrators!
In solidarity John
9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!
www.truthaction.org.au
It may start working
if we're directly or indirectly labeled "crazy" by people supposedly from our own ranks.
Yes....good point!
I suppose we will see...
The problem is to be frank is not many wealthy westerners give a dam about others in pain when it does not effect them!
It is terribly sad state of affairs to be more frank.
Kind regards John
9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!
www.truthaction.org.au
Would it be too much to ask John...
If people gave this the slightest amount of attention? AT ALL? Am I the only one that promotes things like that? It's ABSURD.
That's only been out for a couple of years now John. Have you ever even seen it?
Personally, I would love to see the expression on someone like Joe Biden's face after being handed that.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Jon if that is really the deep feelings you have fine...
That is a righteous position and it is also what you should continue to push....thank you!
This does mean that we as a movement predominantly are now moving on without you it seems?
That's a dam shame....:(
Regards John
9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!
www.truthaction.org.au
Seems that way...
If this movement can't even give something like what I just showed you the time of day, then maybe it is time I moved on.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Enough said then...lets get on with it!
Just keep moving and put the news up...and get on with it!
Good luck and god bless!
We will keep fighting to get what we all need.....justice.
Kind regards John
PS - I find that comment about not giving a time of day an insult...I know you didn't mean it that way...
9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!
www.truthaction.org.au
Don't "move on"
I'm a CD advocate myself, but I absolutely agree with you that we shouldn't put it above everything else. I'm all for researching and talking about controlled demolition, but it shouldn't be "controlled demolition über alles". There's so much more to 9/11, as you have demonstrated: "The Facts Speak for Themselves" should be required reading for everyone in the movement. Thank you for that excellent article and thanks for all what you're doing and have done. You're a big inspiration for me and certainly for countless others as well. Don't leave the movement just because some people are ignorant.
Jon Gold
Don't you think the explosive materials used in the WTC, have contributed to the death & ill-health of 40,000 + first responders/community members?
We have proof of explosive material, found in the 5 dust samples.. in a scientific paper.
How do you not see the connection?
A matter of psychology
When I – a year or two before my turnabout – first learned by the German magazine Der Spiegel that there were «conspiracy theorists» who doubted the official narrative, and did not even bother to read the «debunking» by the magazine, how did I intuit that these «conspiracy theories» were? Well, I felt sure that they were about technical matters – and not motivated by any political considerations at all!
So let us consider the IMAGE of the two kinds of evidence. The forensic evidence has no political image; it has a technical image separated from its political implications. The fact that the Afghan war was planned before 9/11, however, has a political image and seems motivated by political concerns.
What evidence is the easiest to accept for the peace movement? I am in no doubt that it is the political evidence that demonstrate that our concern is political, that our focus is peace and democracy. What kind of approach has less image of «conspiracy theory»? It is the facts like that the Afghan war was planned long before 9/11.
I have some days wanted this discussion, because I have not understood Jon Gold's position before (perhaps) now. Since I first was convinced by Jim Hoffman's quite forensic site, I didn't understand this, forgetting my original reactions to the technical approach.
So I have not understood Emanuel Sferios words, before (perhaps) now:
«In my two years of 9/11 truth activism, I never emphasized the physical evidence. I always knew it was a dead end that would suck the movement's energy and accomplish nothing. But let me be straight up for a moment, if a bit speculative, because thinking about these things is helpful. They demolished the World Trade Center towers with explosives. I have no doubt about this
[...]
But there is another reason they demolished the World Trade Center towers, in my opinion the most important reason, which is that they needed the lie to be incredible. As Hitler and Goebbels understood, the bigger and more incredible the lie, the more people will believe it, because they will have to make a bigger psychological leap in order to disbelieve it.
[...]
Thus the total destruction of the World Trade Center in such a dramatic yet obvious way was, in my opinion, an essential, psychological component of the operation.»
http://www.septembereleventh.org/five_years_later.php
I think Sferios' view is a profound one.
How did I react when it was (re)discovered that BBC Reported Building 7 Had Collapsed 20 Minutes Before It Fell? I couldn't believe it! Too much, too bizarre! The giveaway was too incredible; it didn't feel safe and I could not understand why, why the perps had done something so stupid. Too stupid to believe. (Big Lie-psychology again!) Too obvious that the Emperor is walking there naked. How to explain that the Emperor is naked? It doesn't make sense, so it can't be. That was February 2007, when I had understood CD for half a year and even written about it!!!
http://911blogger.com/node/6482
I do not argue that we should stop using the forensic evidence. But we should realize that Jon Gold has a point here. A very important point.
What is the object?
Is the object to get to "truth" by being better psychological manipulators than the perps? What good is it to win a victory for "justice" by manipulating people psychologically? Would that not just be a "victory" and a reinforcement of psychological manipulation as a way to achieve goals? Maybe it is better to tell the unembellished straight truth with no attempt to "tailor it" to political ends. Maybe it is necessary for humanity to learn the lessons of believing big lies. Maybe believing lies - with all of its ineviable consequencial suffering - is a necessary part of our spiritual evolution.
Summary
Let me try to summarize what you've just cautiously and somewhat implicitly said:
Your conclusion is that, based on these arguments, Jon Gold is correct to label demolition research ineffective and perceived as crazy. However, we should by all means pursue further research into demolition.
If CD overshadows everything else, it is a pity
Understanding the prejudices in an audience and addressing those accordingly is not manipulation, but good communication.
If CD overshadows everything else, it is a pity. We need context, not only unstated implications. It should be crystal clear that this is about politics.
I think most of us should be able to play the piano with ten fingers, not only one.
Come Together
I thought WTC 7 was the one thing we could all agreed on.
It's the most conclusive, easiest to understand evidence we have.
The mother of all smoking guns.
A 'Big tent' approach is perhaps preferable to the well informed but a single issue that everyone can agree on has the best chance of getting the numbers we need.
If you ask for too much you will get nothing.
Once it has been established that WTC 7 was a CD, it establishes that 9/11 was an inside job and the flood gate is open.
Jon, What can it hurt?
If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately.
Thomas Paine
?
I dont see why the worldwide petition for 9/11 truth didnt just link to AE911Truth's petition then .. theirs is better written anyway.
________________________
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com
http://www.ubuntu.com
Dont preach it, just mention it :)
...
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633
Funny... that was written at a time when CD was frowned upon by the entire movement. It was frowned upon until Steven Jones came out.
That's back when the media completely ignored us.
Edit: To clarify... not the entire movement. Jim Hoffman and others were interested in CD. However, a site like 911Truth.org or 911CitizensWatch.org wouldn't post anything about CD.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Effectively they have
They list Richard first and have a link to our website.
It's a two way street.
We are trying to push a rope uphill. Mutual support is imperative.
As RL McGee says, support NYC CAN. It takes very little effort to sign a worthy petition so sign all that are worthy. Donate to the one you agree with most.
AE911Truth is growing because we are a team. The Truth Movement MUST become a team to win this info-war. When people think for themselves, you get every opinion imaginable. This is good but we can't put them all up front.
We must speak with one voice and WTC 7 is the one thing most people can understand. One picture is worth a thousand words and one video is worth a thousand pictures. When the truth is known about WTC 7 the spell will be broken and all will come to light, one step at a time.
Come together and support World for 9/11 Truth
Support NYC CAN
Let's Come Together around the NYC CAN. This is something specific and upcoming that will address both the unanswered questions and concerns of the Family Steering Committee -with subpoena power--- and C.D. This is where I've contributed my money. This is our ticket.
http://www.nyccan.org
I sense a lot of frustration and anger in this thread
and, unfortunately, we seem to be directing it at each other in a very non-productive way.
Some are undoubtedly frustrated by the Bentham mess, which has muddied the waters for the best peer-reviewed evidence supporting the controlled demolition hypothesis to date.
Others are frustrated by, what can seem to be at times, the near total focus of the truth movement on the controlled demolition hypothesis to the perceived detriment of all the other issues which prove that the government's conspiracy theory is false.
I think everyone is a bit worn down by the fight and stressed because we all sense that time is not on our side and if we could only find a way to break through the media blockade we could take a giant step toward achieving our collective goal, getting a new investigation and restoring the rule of law which we all see fading further away the longer the Obama administration maintains its present course.
While I think that debate is a good thing, it is the tone and tenor of this particular debate that I find a bit troubling.
Are we not all brothers and sisters in this struggle?
Do we not all want the same end to this process?
We should debate about the means to the end we seek, a focus on process will keep us sharp and help us determine what works and doesn't work, what works for some and not for others.
But we must also always keep in mind that we are working for great change and how we work for that change will determine what that change will look like when we reach the next level of awakening in this long continuum of human existence.
We also need to remember that we are all individuals, both as activists and the public we are trying to reach with our activism. This means that some activists are more comfortable promoting certain material and others different material, just as different members of the public are receptive to different material. This is a basic truth about human beings, a given that we should all accept and be tolerant of. Thus, we must realize and embrace that different approaches are effective for different people, and since what this debate should really be about, is what is most effective, then we need to accept the diversity of approaches and move forward, in a civil and productive manner. Let me illustrate what I mean with two examples:
At a major peace rally in downtown San Francisco I was working our table with a group of activists. One young and very committed activist engaged a middle-aged professional man for about 25 minutes solely on the subject of controlled demolition and, getting no where with him, grew more forceful and agitated in his interaction with the gentlemen. When there was a pause in the dialogue I offered to discuss other issues exposing the many problems with the government's story about 9/11 and we stepped over to the side and began a very low key conversation. In less than five minutes, after telling this man about the put-options and Norman Mineta's testimony, this man was very much interested in the 9/11 issue and said that he would research these issues more once he got home. He thanked me and left our area. (This has happened more than once, btw.)
The second example involves my parents and some family history. Both my parents are Stanford graduates with science backgrounds. For a decade following Iran-Contra I tried to convince them that their was a shadow government engaged in what Peter Dale Scott calls "deep politics" with very little success. It was only after the msm actually reported much of what I had told them years later that they conceded that I had been right. Thus, when I suggested to them that there was a serious problem with the official 9/11 story they reluctantly agreed to listen to the evidence. I showed them 9/11:Press For Truth and they were very intrigued and found Paul Thompson to be very credible. I then showed them 9/11: The Myth and The Reality and they became even more interested and wanted to read Dr. Griffin's The New Pearl Harbor, which they did. While they found all this material very credible and very suggestive, it was not until I showed them the video of WTC 7 going down that they agreed that there was a massive problem with the official story and that a new investigation was definitely needed. My oldest brother was also convinced by seeing WTC 7 going down (he's an engineer). My second oldest brother (also an engineer, of sorts) is in massive denial, refuses to even look at WTC 7 going down and basically leaves the room any time the subject of 9/11 comes up. (Frustrating to be sure, but I have made my peace with it.)
My point here is that, as activists, we are first and foremost educators, and as educators we must use the materials and approaches we are most comfortable with and work best for each of us, otherwise we will not be successful and I think we all agree that failure is not an option.
Our single best tool for persuasion is our own calm sincerity combined with a solid understanding of the facts.
One of the great strengths of the truth movement is its diversity and true grassroots nature, but this also means we have to tolerate different approaches and not try to impose any kind of orthodoxy on each other, so a certain level of tension is to be expected. Let's try to keep that tension creative and remain as civil as possible, we will all be more effective in reaching our common goal, if we do.
Finally, I think that it is very important that we all find ways to vent our frustration and anger outside of our work as activists, or we run the real risk of burning out, individually and collectively, and that will serve no one's long term interests.
I can honestly say that I have never met a greater group of people than all the 9/11 truth activists I have worked with in the past five years. You really are like brothers and sisters and I love you all very much.
Let's keep our eyes on the prize, brothers and sisters, we are getting close to the tipping point.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
Support NYC CAN
It's OK to blow off some steam.... now rally around the NYC CAN! This is a specific call for an investigation with subpoena power that will cover the Family Steering Committee's questions and concerns as well as Controlled Demolition. We all want both of these areas investigated and NYC CAN is the ticket. If CD helps get our foot in the door, so be it. Bottom line is that all this has to be examined in order for justice to be served.
Right now NYC CAN is where I've contributed my money. http://www.nyccan.org
excellent post - just one comment
Controlled demolition is not an hypothesis. The details of how it was carried out are hypotheses.
I am not going to argue this point. I am not going to explain this point. I am not going to defend this point.
Calling controlled demolition an hypothesis is dishonest. Is is like calling the law of the acceleration of gravity an hypothesis.
A single word
I wonder how much of the 'frustration and anger' you detect in this thread could be resolved with the change of a single word--specifically, changing 'specifically' in the controversial passage to 'including.'
I personally think CD is huge in the cause of exposing the fraudulence of the official story, and bristle when I hear it mischaracterized as a 'church of controlled demolition.'
For all that, though, I can understand Jon Gold's reaction to that phrase in the petition that begins, 'specifically...'; the use of that word seems exclusionary, as if they mean, 'exclusively...' As if the truth behind the 9/11 crimes lies exclusively in the issue of the destruction of the towers and building 7; as if the authors of the petition don't particularly care whether or not any of the other issues are investigated (which would certainly be surprising, given all the topics which, for example, Griffin has written and spoken about) .
Try substituting the word, 'including' (and maybe we can appeal to them to get them to change it). That way, it reads in a way that does NOT exclude other major problems with the official story; while underscoring that the matter of the collapses/destruction of those buildings HAS been excluded from the official 'investigations' that have thus far been done, as well as from media coverage; and that this effort is determined to see this matter will NOT be so excluded henceforth, and that the kind of investigation they are calling for must not devolve into being all about 'ignored warnings,' for example--but at the same time, still INCLUDING all the other issues relating to 9/11, besides the WTC collapses, that likewise are crying out for investigation.
Thanks for that LeftRight!
I think you made many valid points with out any negative emotion, it's appreciated!
Different stokes for different folks, but we should always remember the fallen as Jon continually does especially as activists. But we must recognise that without the WTC 7 mistake our campaign would be floundering. This may be hard to deal with for human beings who see the need for justice and closure with such events as 9/11 for the sake of the victims alone. The harsh reality is that the masses must identify with a future threat to them, shallow as that may be it is the reality!
In my opinion 1.7 seconds of "pure free fall" of WTC 7 is our single strongest argument when it gets down to the provability of a large scale conspiracy within the US government. To allow it to happen unquestioned and to allow such a hollow cover up is very damming indeed. This scares the masses once they get it, which quite often only takes 7 seconds on the first viewing!
Kind regards brother John
9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!
www.truthaction.org.au
2.25 seconds of free fall admitted and published by NIST
in its final report on building 7 (unless an addendum has been published reducing it to 1.7 seconds - which would change nothing}. Even if the nanothermite paper is proven to have errors - or for that matter to be completely wrong - the 2.25 seconds of free fall acceleration still stands as absolute proof. If the nanothermite paper is wrong that just means that the explosives were mis-identified. But THAT there was an EXTERNAL ENERGY SOURCE - beyond gravity is PROVEN AND ADMITTED.
Didn't want to be hard on you Leftwright by saying that it is dishonest to call CD an hypothesis, but bending over backwards to seem to be reasonable and not dogmatic is dishonest if it flies in the face of fact in order not to alienate anyone.
Otherwise, your post was suberb and your personal examples were instructive.
Thanks I'll look around for that figure mine is at the conser..
...vitive end of the graph analysis.
Regards John
9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!
www.truthaction.org.au
NCSTAR 1A pg 45
In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as the buckled columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft), the distance traveled between times
t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s.
4.0 - 1.75 = 2.25 seconds
Note that distance = 105 ft and g = 32 ft/s^2 gives time = 2.56 sec.
2.25 seconds gives 81 ft
NIST fails high school math as well as physics.