Jim Fetzer responds to Steven Jones

[Editor's note: The piece by Steve Jones was posted on 911blogger.com with the
title, "Steven Jones Responds to the Three Stooges". Jim Fetzer posted a reply
later in the day. Here the two posts have been intergrated to join issues.]

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

This is to inform you that I (along with chemist Kevin Ryan and many others)
have withdrawn from association with Jim Fetzer (JF) and "his" version of
Scholars for 9/11 Truth, and to provide reasons for this action.

1. On the Scholars web site he manages ( www.st911.org ), Jim Fetzer casts
aspersions on my research regarding the use of thermates at the World Trade
Center on 9/11/2001 -- which is fine as long as he provides serious technical
objections, which he has not done. At the same time, JF is promoting on the web
site notions that energy-beams from WTC 7 or from space knocked the Towers down.
I have invited Jim repeatedly to view the video of my talk given 11/11/06 at the
University of California at Berkeley which provides the latest physical
evidences for thermate use, reinforcing the data in my published paper. He
admitted this week that he has not done so. My UC-Berkeley talk is here:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/ 4622

In fairness, I list Jim's talk in Tucson (Nov. 13) also, which you may wish to
compare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBcM_dKiLJU

Here you will find Jim's assertion that energy beams directed from WTC 7, or
from space, may be the "fascinating" explanation for what caused the Twin Towers
to collapse. He also here discusses "falling grand pianos." My sincere efforts
to correct his evident errors/misinformati on have been twisted and distorted
until I want no more to do with such "tar-baby" discussions.

Fetzer's response: I have become convinced that the extent of the destruction of
the World Trade Center, the fact that the bathtub survived functionally intact,
and the existence of "toasted" vehicles as much as a half mile to a mile-and-a-
half away is, in my opinion, very unlikely to be explainable on the basis of
termite/thermate, even in combination with other explosives. If we want to get
serious about what happened in New York, we have to consider a broader range of
alternative explanations. That is not "casting aspersions"; on the contrary,
that is what science is all about. If we do not consider all of the possible
alternatives, we may never discover what happened because we omitted the true
hypothesis on a priori or political or psychological grounds that were
independent of logic and evidence. Science can be messy, complex, and
controversial. Welcome to the search for truth! If thermate/thermate can provide
a more adequate explanation than the alternatives, then he will have been proven
to have been right; but you can't do that without considering the alternatives!

As for the grand piano illustration, getting these things right can be tricky,
since they require taking all of the relevant variables into account and
calculations can be complex. I usually use the figure of 12-13 seconds for a
grand piano to reach the ground, which drives home the point that, if we accept
the official account, according to which the South Tower "collapsed" in ten
seconds (The 9/11 Commission Report) or 9 and 11 seconds, respectively (NIST),
they were destroyed faster than free fall, which is physically impossible under
the influence of gravity alone. Some have argued that free fall in a vacuum from
110 floors could occur in about 9 seconds, which is true; but the Towers were
not in a vacuum. Air resistance extends the time of fall from about 12.5 second
up to as much as 30 seconds for a piano of a certain weight with its lid open
functioning very much like a parachute. This is a special case, however, like a
piano that has a parachute attached! I am now being more qualified in discussing
it. But I find it odd that Steve should be making a federal case out of this
when his own calculations turned out to be physically impossible. Which is worse
I will leave for others to debate. A virtue of mathematics is that precision
promotes testability. We all agree that Steve is more likeable than I, but that
does not mean that he's always right. He's not.

2. I support this statement made recently by Dr. Frank Legge, Kevin Ryan,
Victoria Ashley, and other (previous) members of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth:

"Further, on the Scholars' web site, positions are being promoted which are
disputed by the scientists specializing in physical sciences from Scholars For
9/11 Truth. Attempts to correct this situation have failed. As of this date the
web site continues to promote assertions which many unsupported by the evidence
(ray-beams from space caused the demolitions, mini-nukes were used in the WTC
towers, real commercial jets did not hit the WTC towers, etc.). We feel that the
promotion of these ideas functions to distract from and discredit much of the
other basic strong material challenging the official story of 9/11 which already
exists - the stand down, the war games, the insider trading, the many strong
points of evidence on the demolitions, etc." (This 'ad hoc' committee has sent
out a letter you may have received; I have chosen their "option 1.")

Fetzer's response: Indeed, the exploration of alternatives involving mini-nukes,
directed-energy weapons, or even HAARP is a subject that should be very familiar
to a physicist who has conducted research on or at facilities devoted to these
subjects. Judy Wood has speculated--and without speculation as a source of
conjectures, hypotheses, and theories, science would be impossible--that the
source of energy could even be the Sun. Interestingly, that is one of Steve
Jones' areas of expertise. One of the oddest features of this situation, in my
opinion, is that he should be ideally positioned to know that these are not
science fantasies or science fiction but genuine possibilities. Here are some
links that some may find informative about his history in these areas of
research and development, which leads me to wonder why he belittles serious
conjectures as "space beams" and non-sense:

Look Ma, No Smoke: Solar Cooker to Relieve Suffering (Fall 1997)
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/atomic/physics1/atomic/solar.htm

LAMPF = Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.
http://www.lanl.gov/orgs/pa/newsbulletin/2002/06/24/text01.shtml

TRIUMF = Canada's National Laboratory for Particle and Nuclear Physics
http://www.triumf.info/public/

Professor Steven Earl Jones
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/atomic/physics1/atomic/jones_cv.htm

3. On the Scholars' web site, Jim has posted an "Open Letter About Steven Jones"
which contains the following: "He is now planning to take control of the web
site from me." "... his attempt to take over the site is morally, legally, and
intellectually objectionable on many grounds, including that it qualifies as
taking something that does not belong to him."

http://www.scholars for911truth.org/OpenLetterToJones.html

Jim's accusation against me is simply untrue and he provided no evidence for his
assertion. I replied: "What nonsense. As I have written to you privately . Jim,
I have no interest at all "to take over the site." My work is research .. Your
accusation that I attempt "to take over the site" is not only unfounded, it is
bizarre."The uncivil accusations and diatribes remain on the Scholars' web site
(actually managed solely by Jim Fetzer) to this day, contrary to the strong
objections of many members of the society. You may read my full reply and
pleading with Jim to be reasonable, here:

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/JonesResponse.html.

I have asked Jim to promptly remove any papers which I authored from this web
site, but he has not done so.

Jim Fetzer may keep his web site and whoever wishes to adhere to "his" version
of Scholars for 9/11 Truth. Many of us thought this was going to be a collective
effort where members could have a voice, not Jim's "sole proprietorship. "

It is most unfortunate that others have been dragged into this situation, and I
write out of concern for you to explain what has been going on. Of late, Jim F.
refers often to his association now with Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds. These
two are noted for their no-planes-hit- the-Towers theories and for promoting the
notion of ray-beams from space knocking down the Towers. (I and others have
written evidence-based rebuttals to these notions.) These two have written
caustic ad hominems about me in particular, and it possible that Jim's
association with them explains some of his recent behavior.I hope Jim will view
the video of my lecture at UC-Berkeley and then re-evaluate his stance.

Fetzer's response: A classic example of the fallacy of accent occurs when the
accused claims, "I didn't kill him. I paid someone else to do the shooting!" I
have reams of evidence from the forum that Steve was patiently explaining to
others how they could proceed to take control of the web site and even the
society from me. He wants you to ignore his actual conduct, which was offensive,
on the ground that he was merely offering advice about how it could be done and
not pursuing power for himself. But those whose loyal followers acquire that
power following their leader’s instructions are going to be beholden to them, as
we all know. Steve could have said, "There has been discussion about taking Jim
out of the society he created on the forum, but I do not support it." Instead of
disavowing what had been taking place, where he was a principal in the
discussion, he instead described my belief as "bizarre"! Well, there is nothing
bizarre about drawing obvious conclusions from ample evidence. He has to know
better. As for our exchange, I have had it shifted to another web site, it
remains accessible from my "Scholars: On its First Anniversary" statement, in
which I announced that I am transforming the society into a non-profit
corporation managed by a board of directors, who will supervise the editors of
the journal, moderators of the forum, and manager(s) of the web site at their
discretion. I have advanced several slates of possible directors for
consideration, but I have never had a formal response from Steve, Alex, or
others who are involved in these things. (I acknowledge Carl as an exception,
who proposed a method of selection whereby some of the directors would be
decided by a vote of the members. It was not clear anyone else supported it.) If
they really wanted a solution to our problems, I have proposed one that should
resolve most of them.

4. During Thanksgiving weekend, Jim F unilaterally dismissed me as co-chair of
Scholars for 9/11 Truth. I felt that this action was improper and unfair. Later
he hinted that unspecified legal action might be taken against me and/or Alex
Floum, a fine researcher. To me, this was the last straw which led to my ending
association with Jim F and "his" society.

Fetzer's response: I removed Steve as co-chair after I discovered that he had
cut Rick Siegle from the forum even as he was composing a post that was critical
of Steve. I told him that, if he could justify this action, I would be glad to
reconsider, but I thought it was very inappropriate for him to exclude a member
on what appeared to be political grounds, especially since it involved criticism
of Steve, reflecting an obvious conflict of interest. Steve wrote me to say that
he supported the moderator who had done this. Because Steve and Carl were the
only persons authorized to serve in that capacity--and Carl had been on line in
the forum when it occurred, as he subsequently explained, and could not have cut
him off at that time--I asked Steve to tell me who it was who had done it. He
refused to identify that person. This has reinforced my belief that it was Steve
himself who did this, but I could be wrong. If someone else was authorized by
Steve, I supposed he would explain that and allow me to evaluate the situation
again, which might have led to his reinstatement as co-chair. But he has been
unwilling to comply. Carl has described this person as a "mystery moderator"
because even he, who has long served in that role, admits that he has no idea
who Steve could be talking about.

5. I join Kevin Ryan and many others in withdrawing from the group so that my
name will not be attached to the personalized attacks and ray-beams-from- space
stuff on www.st911.org.

This I did by simply emailing to joinst911@gmail.com and stating that "I am
withdrawing from this society."

(This very email is set up such that if you simply hit "Reply to all" and state
"I withdraw from this society", it will send the message to the membership
administrator for the society run now by Jim Fetzer.)

Fetzer's response: There is no evidence of "personalized attacks". That I no
longer believe that Steve's theory of thermite/thermate can provide a complete
explanation of the demolition of the WTC does not mean that it cannot provide a
partial explanation of the demolition of the WTC. I find it extremely difficult
to imagine how anyone who has actually gone to Judy and Morgan's web site and
reviewed the photos and diagrams there--even without consulting the text!--could
not appreciate the magnitude of the problem we confront. The damage is massive
and extends far beyond WTC-1 and WCT-2 to WTC-3, WTC-4, WTC-5, and WTC-6,
leaving WTC-7 to one side. The lack of more serious damage to the bathtub is
stunning, considering these were 500,000 ton buildings. The seismic evidence and
the toasted cars provide additional reasons for believing that, whatever caused
this massive devastation, it cannot have merely been conventional explosives
with thermite/thermate mixed in. I could be wrong, once again, but that is my
considered opinion, which could be affected by new evidence and new hypotheses.
We will never know if we don't compare the relative strengths of the
alternatives by applying the principles of inference to the best explanation
that define science.

6. Some months ago, I initiated and now co-edit with Kevin Ryan the Journal of
9/11 Studies which publishes peer-reviewed papers which adhere to the scientific
method. I hope you will take a look at some of the fine papers therein:

www.journalof911studies.com

I believe this is the proper way to proceed, with careful studies followed by
peer-reviewed publication.

Fetzer's response: As for the journal, it was originally founded with Judy Wood
as co-editor and me as managing editor. I probably have more editing experience
than anyone else involved in 9/11 research, but I stepped aside when I realized
that this was something that Steve wanted to do without me. I was preoccupied
with the web site, which, including sorting through emails and locating
appropriate news items to post, has consumed as much as 8-10 hours a day of
effort. One of my reasons for retiring after 35 years of teaching logic,
critical thinking, and scientific reasoning was because I place greater
importance upon dealing with these complex issues that make such a difference to
the future of our country than whether I offer another college course. But I was
glad to not have to carry that burden, too. It was with considerable distress,
therefore, that I discovered the editorial board he appointed was not chock-full
of first rate, "hard science" types. Its lack of appropriate balance has led to
criticism on various 9/11-related sites, criticism that I acknowledge to have
been well-founded. Several times I suggested to Steve that he ought to add as
many as a dozen of the members of SPINE, for example, to strengthen the board,
but until this controversy broke, he had done nothing about it. I would also
point out that, even though the journal was created as a part of Scholars, he
and Kevin, who have both resigned, are trying to conceal that fact by declaring
it to be some kind of private preserve that is not a part of Scholars. Those of
you who think that I am the bad guy and the Steve is not operating to benefit
himself should consider this point carefully. In the course of our negotiations,
which were ongoing and out of the public eye at the time, I offered him the
journal and the forum as part of a settlement that would leave me with the web
site. Now he appears to be trying to bypass the stage of negotiation and simply
take part of Scholars for himself.

7. An ad hoc committee of scholars (from the old group) is forming a research
society which will focus on use of the scientific method and peer-reviewed
papers. Their website will be closely allied with the Journal of 9/11 Studies
(which I co-edit) and will be managed by an elected committee, responsive to the
group. Two sample websites are already available to give further information:

http://schol.digitalstyledesigns.com/
and
http://www.taulbee.us/stj911/

This research group intends to keep in touch with its members and to use the
scientific method along with civil and respectful discourse. (We won't spend
much time on ray-beams from space knocking down the Towers!) If you wish to join
this group, you may write to: stj911.info@yahoo.com.

Fetzer's response: This "ad hoc" committee has improperly commandeered the
society's membership list without consulting me and has used it to distribute an
anonymous invitation to join a non-existent new society. If they had approached
me about it, I would have had no choice but to consider it. The irony here is
that one of Steve's major complaints about my "Open Letter about Steve Jones" is
that I had not consulted him in advance. Well, the fact is that I had previously
sent him and his group an "Open Letter to Steve Jones" discussing these things
and offering various proposals for settling our differences in private and out
of the public eye. These have included several slates of possible members of the
board of directors, as I mentioned above. I only took these matters public AFTER
I had discovered that they were plotting a hostile take over of the web site and
the society. If anyone has any doubts that I was right about that, the
subsequent course of events, which includes making up a fake "membership
administrator" and using a fake email address to deceive members into the false
belief that this was taken as an action by the society, should put the lie to
that. Surely, if all of their intentions were noble and their actions were just,
this could have been done in an open and public fashion without deception and
subterfuge rather than sneaking around to try to bring down the entity that has
attained so much success. I respect the right of this group to form a new
society of their own with their own web site, forum, and journal. But they are
not entitled to take this one.

Damn this pisses me off!!!

Damn this pisses me off!!!

Steven Jones & Alex Floum: Thou Shalt Not LIE and STEAL!!!

Yes, Chris, you are quite correct. I too am pissed off.

Steven Jones and Alex Floum (who has been ACTING AS IF he is Steven Jones' attorney) are attempting to STEAL the websites of Scholars for 9/11 Truth (and the ST911 site content). They should be ASHAMED of themselves for their ILLEGAL acts.

Attorney Alex Floum (A/K/A "George Washington") is now REFUSING to transfer rights in the ST911 and J911S websites to their rightful owner, namely SCHOLARS FOR 9/11 TRUTH.

What is even worse for the 9/11 TRUTH Movement is that attorney Alex Floum is now LYING about what he is doing. Attorney Alex is saying that ST911 Chair Jim Fetzer is requesting rights in the sites for himself personally. Attorney Alex Floum is SAYING that he trying to prevent the ST911 Chair from doing this. This is just NOT TRUE, and attorney Alex Floum knows that this is NOT TRUE. Attorney Alex Floum is LYING to ST911 members and to YOU.

Yes, attorney Alex Floum is LYING. As Chair of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Jim Fetzer has ONLY requested the rightful return of the property of Scholars for 9/11 Truth to SCHOLARS FOR 9/11 TRUTH. Attorney Alex Floum, Thou Shalt not LIE! Attorney Alex Floum, Thou Shalt not STEAL!

It would be one thing if it was just some common attorney who is LYING. But this attorney also hides his identity as "GEORGE WASHINGTON." How can 'George Washington' possibly tell a LIE?

Steve Jones AND Jim Fetzer have BOTH done much good work for Scholars for 9/11 Truth, and we should ALL be grateful to them. It is very unfortunate that attorney ALEX FLOUM is now trying to DESTROY the organization that Jones & Fetzer & others built by Floum's ILLEGAL acts. It is also unfortunate that Steven Jones is encouraging his attorney friend Alex in these ILLEGAL acts behind the scenes (e.g., in the ST911 Forum).

Chris, you are quite correct in saying: "DAMN THIS PISSES ME OFF!!!"

P.S. Chris, do you have any idea who chopped down the ST911 Cherry Tree? You may want to ask George Washington...

Yes, troll - Steven Jones

Yes, troll - Steven Jones destroyed St911... not the "space-beam", "no-plane" disinfo agents!!!

Get lost

You are a backstabbing fraud and a traitor.

 

Yes, Alex Floum, Promoting ST911 Election Fraud, Should GET LOST

YT, you may have said it all when you said: "Get lost... You are a backstabbing fraud and a traitor."

As per my above comment, attorney ALEX FLOUM is trying to STEAL the websites and content of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, and attorney Alex Floum is LYING about it. What you may not know is that attorney ALEX FLOUM (a/k/a 911 Blogger moderator "George Washington") has also HIJACKED and STOLEN the membership mailing list of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and is sending ILLEGAL, unauthorized emails to our members -- requesting an ILLEGAL, unauthorized ballot.

Attorney Alex Floum is also 911 Blogger moderator "George Washington," so he will probably delete these comments and ban me for posting these comments. However, isn't turnaround "FAIR PLAY"? And George Washington does want to ACT AS IF he is telling the truth and playing fair, doesn't he?

Attorney Alex Floum is backstabbing ALL members of 9/11 Scholars for Truth by hijacking and STEALING the mailing list of Scholars for 9/11 Truth for purposes of sending unauthorized FRAUDULENT emails (claiming that .the emails were authorized ANONYMOUS emails from Scholars for 9/11 Truth).

YT, since I know that you TOO will agree that FRAUDULENT emails requesting an ILLEGAL ballot are both "backstabbing" and "traitorous," we thank you for your support. Attorney Alex Floum did NOT give ST911 Chair Jim Fetzer any notice of the illegal, anonymous email -- much less an opportunity to be heard. "Fair and Balanced" (just like Fox News), right???

Attorney Alex Floum also requested an ILLEGAL election, an ILLEGAL ballot, an ILLEGAL place to send the illegal ballot, and an ILLEGAL method of counting the illegal ballots (namely, from ANONYMOUS email in-box of the ANONYMOUS person who sent the illegal emails to the ST911 members. (Alex Floum, is that YOU?)

ALEX FLOUM, are you TOO semi-anonymous? If not, then who is your ANONYMOUS vote counter who will NOT allow others to be present when the illegal balots are received and counted? YT, since you are always fair and balanced (like George Washington?), we know that you TOO will strongly object to the BACKSTABBING, TRAITOROUS FRAUD of this fraudulent email, the illegal election, the fraudulent ballot, the illegal ballot box, and the fraudulent ballot counting. We can COUNT on you, YT, can't we?

Professor Steven Jones may be too valuable to the 9/11 Truth Movement for him to continue to encourage his attorney friend Alex Floum in these ILLEGAL and FRAUDULENT actions. DR. JONES, DO THE RIGHT THING!

If it weren't for attorney Alex Floum and his divide-and-conquer actions and his backstabbing, unauthorized, illegal, fraudulent, traitorous actions and lying, then Dr. Steven Jones and Dr. Jim Fetzer might still be together in Scholars for 9/11 Truth. Attorney Alex Floum is destroying the 9/11 Truth Movement and helping those who are attempting to stop 9/11 truth and justice seeking. Attorney Alex Floum should just GET LOST!

Attorney Alex Floum, Thou Shalt Not LIE. Attorney Alex Floum, Thou Shalt Not STEAL elections. Attorney Alex Floum, Thou Shalt Not COVET Thy Neighbor's Websites!

Wow the CIA Bitches are really starting to panic

lol

as they adjust to the new reality, we change it on them

Poor shills. Their own svengali's tactics have turned against them--has there ever been justice so poetic, or (molten) irony so sweet?

Here they are trying EVERY trick in the book thinking that all it takes to cover something up is a bunch of shills running around lying their asses off. Not only are the obvious disinfo agents failing with every bogus new theory they toss out the window only to see it drop to earth at more than free fall speed, even the more subtle forms are gaining no traction (and lest some people around here get their panties in a twist I won't go over what those more subtle (but still obvious) forms of disinfo are!

I talked to another Harvard student the other day who was very interested when I mentioned what my particular focus in activism was. This was not a rebel or a leftie or a hippie--just a regular dude who knew, even on 9/11, that when buildings fall in the manner of a controlled demolition, it always is a controlled demolition. Why has he harbored such doubts for so long without doing anything? Well, what was he going to do? Skip college to start a crusade? No, but now that he knows others on his campus are starting to discuss this openly, the risk of being labelled a conspiracy theorist doesn't seem such a threat.

In fact, it must seem like an opportunity to rise above the college rabble and establish oneself as a genuinely intelligent person. What?? You actually believe in al Qaeda Claus? Do you also go for intelligent design over evolution? Get out of here--you don't belong in an institution of higher learning, you pathetic loser. Or is it that you know full well what happened on 9/11 and just hate Muslims so much that you would support a false accusation against them even if it exposes you as a fool, a bigot, or both?

Yes, Tom Friedman, the earth is flat, and bin Laden hates our freedoms. Now go screw your rich wife before she dumps your social ladder climbing ass. And to any and all students who thought that all you need to succeed is to echo and parrot everything your prof says in order to earn that A, think again. That was the old reality that someone created for you and that you swallowed whole because you lacked imagination and critical thinking skills, or because you are a shameless lying opportunist. We have a new reality for you to get used to, and it requires that you think or sink.

Get ready for the national debate of the century. Pack lightly though, because there is every reason to believe we will win by TKO in the first round, if the opponent even dares to show up. All you shills like creating your own reality? Tough--you have failed, and you have chosen poorly. We gave you many chances, pleaded with you to make the right decision. You ignored those offers The endgame begins now.

"Everyone can see
what's going on.
They laugh cause they know [think -RT] they're untouchable
not because what I said was wrong.

Through their own words
they will be exposed.
They've got a severe case of the emperor's new clothes."

Thanks Sinead. I couldn't have said it better, now go rip up the new pope.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

how could you?

how could you?

Show "What do you know about thermite?" by Jim Fetzer

Let's speak seriously and

Let's speak seriously and honestly.
Is the fact that you're being labeled disinfo in any way a problem, or is that part of what you'd hoped for? What's the next step? Is the target just Jones or do you hope to take out the credibiltiy of others like Hoffman and Berger as you go?

A Self-Controlled Demolition of Jim Fetzer, Steve Jones & ST911?

Are we eye-witnessing the "Self-Controlled Demolition of Jim Fetzer, Steve Jones & ST911?" As Rodney King once said, "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?"

It is both strange and interesting that the Co-Chairs of the previously-effective Scholars for 9/11 Truth chose this time -- immediately before the new Democrat-controlled Congress takes office -- to fight over their somewhat-minimal differences in a public way. Again, I ask: Are we witnessing a Self-Controlled Demolition?

There is a new "9/11 without Tinfoil" report posted at www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1401. The report is entitled "CIA Bitches Skip Town" -- so that no effective or semi-effective groups & individuals will be left in the 9/11 Truth Movement to take our case to the new Democrat-controlled Congress. You may especially want to listen to the accompanying audio report by clicking on this link: www.breakfornews.com/audio/NextLevel061205a.mp3.

"Concerned 9/11 Scholar" says above that ST911 member Alex Floum has had a key role in precipitating this demolition (self-controlled or not). I don't know for sure, but we may all want to take a closer look at the facts and circumstances surrounding this very public feud before we come to any firm conclusions.

Although they have both said and done some unfortunate things, it does not appear that either Steve Jones or Jim Fetzer are completely at fault. If Jones & Fetzer can no longer work together, so what? Let them go their separate ways, and let's support BOTH of them in their 9/11 endeavors and in their 9/11 organizations.

"misterguy" is beginning (continuing?) to label certain people as "disinfo"? "misterguy" is accusing Fetzer of targeting the credibility of Jones, Hoffman & Berger. Since the mob mentality of some at 911 Blogger (nattering nabobs of negativism?) has concluded that Fetzer is "toast" (although not quite as "toasted" as the thermited, termited "toasted cars" a half a mile from the WTC towers on 9/11), is this "misterguy"'s way of trashing Fetzer & bolstering the credibility of Jones, Hoffman & Berger without any (additional) evidence? Hmmm...

During the Anti-War & Civil Rights movements of the 1960s, one sure sign that someone MIGHT be an agent of the real COINTELPRO was for that person to accuse someone else of being an agent. In the 1960s, no one had yet invented the word "disinfo."

Jim Fetzer has offered Steve Jones and Steve's supporters assistance in setting up a new 9/11 truth & justice seeking organization. Competition for 9/11 truth & 9/11 justice is a good thing! Let's all support Steve Jones, Jim Fetzer, AND their organizations.

Are WE TOO participating in the "Self-Controlled Demolition of the 9/11 Truth Movement"? If so, then we may want to calmly & rationally re-consider what we are doing & saying. Are all these attacks against Steve Jones, against Jim Fetzer & against Scholars for 9/11 Truth really a good idea? Who benefits? Hmmm...

Keep your powder dry. Save it for the real 9/11 perps. As the 1960s comic strip character "POGO" once said: "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY, AND HE IS US."

As Rodney King once said, "Can't we all just get along?"

Anyone promoting SPACE BEAMS taking down

the Twin Towers is disinfo -period. Fetzer will probably be up on FAUX News in the very near future telling the world about how it must have been a "SPACE BEAM" that made the towers collapse to make us all look like crazies.

So far, Steven Jones hasn't promoted anything nearly as absurd as what a few of our other self-appointed 9/11 truth leaders have (i.e., Morgan "CARTOON PLANE" Reynolds, Judy "SPACE BEAM" Wood and Uncle Fetzer).

Steve Jones and Kevin Ryan are doing the right thing by distancing themselves from these three stooges. Everyone else in the movement should too IMO.

Rodney King wrote "Are we witnessing a Self-Controlled Demolition?"

Gee, ya think so?

give it up, your modus

give it up, your modus operandi is known... 

Trying to play the same card twice (JFK/911)...

Show "Steven Jones' Modus Operandi Is Much Better than Jim Fetzer's!" by David Rockefeller (not verified)
Show "I know what you mean." by Anonymous (not verified)

Well atleast we can deduce

Well atleast we can deduce that your contingent of the COINTELPRO is based somewhere near Greenwich Time...

The intelligence agencies that do the crimes try to control the counter-community's response by infiltrating moles that infect it with large falsehoods and impossible-to-prove technical questions (micro-analysis). The large falsehoods are designed to prove the community wrong and nuts if the need arises. The microanalysis into pointless or unanswerable questions, or into just plain dumb ones, is to divert its energies from using the clear hard facts to tell the story simply and clearly.

Scamming scumbag Fetzer did the exact same thing

to the JFK researchers as he's trying to do here. I can't believe this piece of shit actually thinks he can get away with pulling the same trick 20 years later. No planes/TV Fakery/Spacebeams is a direct continuation from his JFK disinfo playbook. This creep and his little gang need to be investigated and put on trial along with the rest of the 9/11 criminals.

 

What do you know about thermate?

Why are you disingenuously implying that Professor Jones centers his hypothesis on thermite (an incendiary) when in fact he discusses thermate (an explosive)?

You're...

Right.

"Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."



"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."

Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member

Show "thermate is NOT an explosive," by CB_Brooklyn

Don't Mess with Casseia -- Disingenuous or Not!

CB Brooklyn, don't mess with Casseia -- disingenuous or not! She knows the truth, and she may tell us.

casseia and Dr. Steven E. Jones say that thermite or thermate might have made the WTC towers collapse. Maybe the WTC towers burned up with the thermate? casseia and Dr. Jones may tell us and show us the truth (maybe sooner, maybe later). So, don't worry.

casseia, would you please provide us with ANY of Dr. Jones' links to thermite or thermate ever being used to make a building collapse? casseia, you do have AT LEAST ONE LINK, don't you?

Oh, wait a second, did the WTC towers really "collapse"? Doesn't "COLLAPSE" imply that the WTC towers "pancaked"? Oh, no matter... I'm sure that casseia and Dr. Jones will NEVER use a misleading and disingenuous word such as "collapse" EVER again!

But casseia, tell us AND SHOW US about ANY other use of thermate...

But casseia, tell us AND SHOW US about thermate EVER being used to a PULVERIZE building...

But casseia, tell us AND SHOW US about thermate being used to selectively TOAST CARS 1/2 mile from the WTC towers on 9/11...

But casseia, as calm, smart, and UN-DISINGENUOUS as you are, please tell us and show us: WHO ARE YOU?

Military Reloads with Nanotech

Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes for a bigger boom.

By John Gartner

Nanotechnology is grabbing headlines for its potential in advancing the life sciences and computing research, but the Department of Defense (DoD) found another use: a new class of weaponry that uses energy-packed nanometals to create powerful, compact bombs.

With funding from the U.S. government, Sandia National Laboratories, the Los Alamos National Laboratory, and the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory are researching how to manipulate the flow of energy within and between molecules, a field known as nanoenergentics, which enables building more lethal weapons such as "cave-buster bombs" that have several times the detonation force of conventional bombs such as the "daisy cutter" or MOAB (mother of all bombs).

Researchers can greatly increase the power of weapons by adding materials known as superthermites that combine nanometals such as nanoaluminum with metal oxides such as iron oxide, according to Steven Son, a project leader in the Explosives Science and Technology group at Los Alamos.

"The advantage (of using nanometals) is in how fast you can get their energy out," Son says.

Son says that the chemical reactions of superthermites are faster and therefore release greater amounts of energy more rapidly.

"Superthermites can increase the (chemical) reaction time by a thousand times," Son says, resulting in a very rapid reactive wave.

Son, who has been working on nanoenergetics for more than three years, says that scientists can engineer nanoaluminum powders with different particle sizes to vary the energy release rates. This enables the material to be used in many applications, including underwater explosive devices, primers for igniting firearms, and as fuel propellants for rockets.

However, researchers aren't permitted to discuss what practical military applications may come from this research.

- cont'd - : http://www.technologyreview.com/NanoTech/14105/ 

(Like blowing up the WTC?)

 

Show "interesting... it might have been used." by CB_Brooklyn

Perhaps during the ACME

Perhaps during the ACME contract to do maintenence work on the Elevators of the the two towers?  I believe all 80 employees escaped unharmed...

So, Research on Nano-Thermite Is Like Directed-Energy Weapons?

So, imgstacke, research on Nano-Thermite Is just like research on Directed-Energy Weapons, right?

If you can't show ONE (1) concrete or steel application in which Nano-Bot Super-Thermites were used in ONE (1) real-world application, then how are Nano-Enhanced Super-Thermites any different from the Directed-Energy Beam Weapons (or "Space Beams") that others and you at 911 Blogger ridicule so loudly and with so much energy? (Or have you just been drinking too much Steve's nano-bot Kool Aide?)

911 Blogger is the ONLY place where Directed-Energy Weapons are virtually denied. Even FOX NEWS says that Directed-Energy Weapons are real and that the the true capabilities of Directed-Energy Weapons are a top military secret (in the U.S., the U.K., Russia, China, and elsewhere).

Why does the hob-knobbing, nano-nano-negativistic, nay-botting, nattering nay-bobbing, nay-mob-mentality at 911 Blogger deny the possibilities of secretly-advanced research and development for Directed-Energy Weapons while promoting similar possibilities for secretly-advanced research and development of Nano-Enhanced Super-Thermite?

Does anyone else (besides Dr. Steven E. Jones) see the inconsistencies and hypocrisies in groundlessly saying WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE that Nano-Enhanced Super-Thermite might be top-secretly advanced but that Directed-Energy Weapons CANNOT be top-secretly advanced?

Scotty, please beam up Steve's nattering, Neo-Luddite Nano-Bots! (While you're at it, beam me up too, Scotty!)

it's a dark day for truth

it's a dark day for truth when Jim Fetzer is censored in his own post.

You can waver all you want

but you've played out. No act you're going to put up will sustain your influence on this movement, and thus your "usefulness". Goodbye, hope it was at least worth it financially.

Dr. Jones Isn't Leaving Town, Is He?

Bruce, Dr. Jones isn't leaving town, is he?

Just because Dr. Jones resigned from Scholars for 9/11 Truth, this doesn't mean that he will no longer be active in the 9/11 Truth Movement, does it?

Just because Dr. Jones resigned as a professor at Brigham Young University in early retirement (financially well worth it), this doesn't mean that he will no longer be active in the 9/11 Truth Movement, does it?

There is a new "9/11 without Tinfoil" report entitled "CIA BITCHES SKIP TOWN" at www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1401. Dr. Steven Jones isn't one of those "CIA BITCHES," is he?

Well, for better or for worse, at least ST911 Chair Dr. Jim Fetzer is taking a stand and not leaving town.

I have read the other

I have read the other comments by other participants/responders here and I am unclear to whom the comments are addressed.

I am one hundred percent behind Dr. James Fetzer. Dr. Fetzer has been totally up front and above board in all of this. He has more than "reached out" to all in the Scholars to propose fair solutions. Dr. Fetzer has been very open and has backed up everything he has done with proof from the website.

By contrast, Dr. Jones has apparently been engaged in some very secretive and sly behind-the-scenes machinations. He has an elitist air about him. He may be a great scientist and certainly his hypothesis about thermite and thermate being used at the WTC towers is something we should all be most appreciative of.

But Dr. Fetzer and his open way of wanting ALL alternative ideas to be given full and fair airing on the website and radio shows is to me the American way. Dr. Fetzer has always seemed much more like an American patriot to me.

I personally find Dr. Jones demeanor of "soft spokenness and mild manners" fronting for secretive scurrilous power-plays to be more than disgusting. Dr. Jones' affect at the CNN televised part of the June 2006 Scholars Symposium in Los Angeles was to me an absolute embarrassment. He is not an individual that interfaces well with the public.

Dr. Fetzer has laudably played the role of the Scholar / mediator between the activities of the Scholars and the public's rightful desire to know what is going on. He has performed a yeoman’s job of that daunting task.

Dr. Fetzer has all along expressed great caution regarding the part of the Scholars' work that is to search out what actually did happen on 9-11. He has always painted a realistic picture for us of how very difficult that task is. He has throught truly been a gentteman and a scholar and a true American.

The Scholars for 9-11 Truth have given we the ordinary 9-11 "truthers" the valuable gift of proof, proof beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the official 9-11 story is incontrovertibly FALSE. We have also been taught clearly by Dr. Fetzer about logical fallacies and other kinds of flaws in argument whereby we can outselves go out and refute those dwindling forces that wish to hold on to and enforce the official 9-11 lie.

The Scholars for 9-11 Truth, and particularly Dr. Fetzer, have provided us greater truth and reality in our increasingly surreal looking world.

Thank you, Dr. Fetzer, Dr. Jones, and all of the Scholars for 9-11 Truth. We would not have achieved the great success of our movement at all without you and your efforts.

Best wishes to Dr. Jones in his endeavors. I sincerely hope the Scholars will take up on some of Dr. Fetzer's suggestions for reorganization and come back as an organization bigger and better and stronger than ever.

Blessings from Dachsie in Austin.

Show "Steven Jones sabotaged the development of free energy    " by Anonymous (not verified)

very interesting

very interesting

The votes are in...

and Fetzer is toast!

Taking a look at the previous "Stooges" blog, I see that Fetzer has co-author/editor ties to Jack White who once claimed the JFK Zapruder film was a "hoax".

Yeah right!

"This all nets out to the authors' assertion that the extant Zapruder
film is not an authentic representation of what occurred in Dealey
Plaza on 11/22/63. It does not concur with the descriptions of the
closest eyewitnesses. It is not merely an altered film but a total
fabrication. In fact, the extant film may have been constructed using,
not only Zapruder's film, but other films taken that day. This may
account for Zapruder choosing such a poor POV -- he may have been a
decoy intended to distract attention from other cameramen concealed
nearby."
-Jim Fetzer (THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX)

Hey Jim! Maybe the Zapruder film was constructed using space beams!!! You DICK!!!

That pretty much does it for me on the "disinfo" tip. Birds of a feather...

It also kind of makes clear how Fetzer was the one who ended up on Fox News all the time ostensibly speaking on behalf of the Truth Movement.

Hey Jim... "Fool me once... shame on... shame on you... Ya fool me we can't get fooled again!"

The Science of Jim Fetzer: Sees What It Wants To See

and notice how in his JFK work and here, he is working under the auspices of "science".

It's one thing to be a philosopher of science, and another thing to be a scientist.

A Warning Re: Jim Fetzer's "Research"

Everyone needs to check that out

and learn the origins of the No Planes/TV Fakery/Spacebeam bullshit. Fetzer pulled the exact same tricks on the JFK researchers as he's attempting here.

15 years ago when he tried to get the world to believe that the Zapruder film was something akin to 'tv fakery' it was noted that his arguments "rely on the improbable, the unavailable, the unproven, the wildly speculative, and the downright nonsensical to make their case."

Today it's not much different.

Fetzer's job is to obfuscate and distract on behalf of mass murderers.

Fetzer and his disinformation colleagues need to be investigated and tried along with the rest of the 9/11 criminals.

 

Agreed! A lie, even a well

Agreed!

A lie, even a well planned and executed lie, only works ONCE! 

Show "The votes are in -- and counted!" by Anonymous (not verified)

Same old Same old

You haven't even looked at the evidence on the Zapruder film.....and if you say so I will doubt you, since the evidence is so overwhelming.

At least you are consistent:

1) Disparage the idea the Zapruder film was doctored based on the "fact" your point is "obvious"...without looking at the data.

2) same for Taboo issues surrounding 9/11?

Same technique of argument?

Wow. That's bad.

The fact you are so sure of yourself....and so wrong, makes me doubt your opinion even more strongly, if that is possible, regarding the taboo issues of 9/11.

But I think others should take this blatant error as warning: Look close and Look yourself.

AMEN!

"Look close and Look yourself."

Excuse me Peggy

But I did examine the evidence for myself prior to posting it. I have also thoroughly researched the question of JFK's assassination generally and the history of the Zapruder film specifically.

I was therefore able to observe Mr. Fetzer's analysis from a unique and informed position. It seems clear to me that Fetzer's only goal was to obfuscate and distract from the central issues involving the JFK assasination; namely, who did it? and why?

I was thus able to observe a distinct "disinfo" pattern that Fetzer seems to be employing here with 9/11 where again the two most important questions are who did it? and why?

Just read back over this blog and it seems fairly clear that Fetzer is having the desired impact. To obfuscate and distract from the primary issues confronting the 9/11 Truth Movement. Therefore, in my estimation, everything that comes from "Dr." Fetzer should be viewed with caution and skepticism in the extreme. It is clear he has a hidden agenda... though exactly what that is remains to be seen.

Good day Peggy.

Did you read his book?

?

I said GOOD DAY!

I said GOOD DAY!

Why is it?

Why is it that you appeat yo ALWAYS be onthe side of the most divisive elements of this movement? whether it is supporting Nico Haupt and TVFakery, or now Fetzer and Space Beams, you appear to always be supporting the most fringe elements.

is it that youBELIEVE that these most fringe elements are actually the standard bearers of truth? or is it that you are part of an organized disruption campaign

look - i can believe anyone can have a lapse of reason and give their hearts and mind to a particular ill-advised theory (like TVFakery)... but the CONSISTENCY in which you always seem to appear in favor of ALL of the most divisive elements of this movement would seem to defy the laws of probability.

so what does that leave us with? what should we assume about you?

Dude;

Shayler on sky part 1
67.24 MB
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L2FJX8Y0

Shayler on sky part 2
67.38 MB
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GUBJS8Z4

Shayler on sky part 3
71.98 MB
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YQJ66LG5

Don't be so hard on her,

Don't be so hard on her, she's just "following orders"</sarcasm>

Mommy! Johnny hit me.

Hey, if I say it, that will make it true. Right?

Let's see... what did today's talking points memo say?
I'll guarantee that there was a reminder for the OPs to use the word "divisive" as often as possible when talking about those pursuing the truth.

And, if you can, accuse others of "ad hominem attacks." If you do it often enough, perhaps folks will assume your accusations are true and forget to notice that you're the biggest offender.

just like the media/government used the word...

...TERROR

 

Same brainwashing tactic  

ahh  well its the persona

ahh  well its the persona of CB...  who woulda thought...  :D

How's your coffee?

How's your coffee?

Jack White's shoddy 9/11 work

It is true that Jack White's work on 9/11 is rather shoddy. But White's work on Zapruder whould be judged on its own merits.

And you must also understand that Jack White was in no way the only nor even major scholar who worked on the Zapruder film. Fetzer's "Assassination Science" faeatures 142 pages on the Zapruder film and White's analysis is only ten pages of that. Fetzer has not published any of White's work on 9/11.

Show "The Votes Are In -- Thermite-Toting Pigeons Toasted the Cars!" by A Smidgen Pigeon Promoter (not verified)
Show "Illegal alien Muslim pigeons" by CB_Brooklyn

again the persona of CB

again the persona of CB always ready to follow up some random disinfo post...

it's not 'disinfo' just

it's not 'disinfo' just because you say it is. if you've got a specific issue with the information contained in the links CB provided, speak up.

Yes Terrorist Muslim Pigeons

Yes Terrorist Muslim Pigeons is credible...  <snicker>

here's a simpler

here's a simpler explanation, they were TOWED there to make room for the rescue effort to save people trapped under the rubble...

 

Barring that then your pigeon idea ranks second as the Space Beam would have destroyed the bridge... 

Show "where is the evidence they were towed?" by CB_Brooklyn

Claim? Tis merely a hypothesis

One that actually falls into the realm of reality...  I might add.

Show "but it's not valid tho...." by CB_Brooklyn

The image of the cars

The image of the cars covered with dust fits my hypothesis nicely as there is no dust anywhere near the area surrounding the cars, the police car is not surrounded by dust yet is in line with the other vehicles. This would suggest the vehicles and the police cruiser came from different locations and did not originate from the same location. Which rules out the area UNDER the bridge as the point of origin for all of the vehicles.

Rubber burns at modest temperatures, a vehicle fire in a parking lot would easily spread from vehicle to vehicle, especially the densely packed parking lots adjacent to the WTC complex.

The bathtub was damaged but held, and the mass of the towers fell onto the sub-basement levels which in turn was on top of the matrix of grillages, which inturn where mounted to bedrock... See: 911 Mysteries.

How much steel is unaccounted for? And explosives account for the missing concrete.

WTC6 Debris:

notice the "wheatchex"s....

WTC5 - Doesn't look circular to me, and the roof material is laying in the missing sections, I would think a destructive energy weapon would not be so kind...

And I make it a point not to read fiction...

As much as I enjoyed our

As much as I enjoyed our little game of "whack-a-Mole" I have to get some sleep...  I prefer spades but one must get a game where you can find it... Ciao!

Unproven hypothesis!

So, if it's unproven, why is it believed?

And how do you know?

How can you be so confident?

So, if there is a big traffic accident in downtown Washinton DC, do you think they will store the crumpled up cars out on interstate I-395, just in time for rush hour? ;-)

they destroyed the WTC evidence...

...so they should have destroyed those cars too. Not tow them to an area filled with camera-happy reporters. Another reason not to assume they were towed. (As if having no evidence for towing in the first place wasn't enough!!!)

The plan to recycle the

The plan to recycle the steel from the WTC site was not approved until 11 days later, at that time the rescue effort was in full swing...  But I am sure you already know that.

Lower Manhattan is a very

Lower Manhattan is a very compact place... if you are to make room for the heavy equipment quickly being assembled to aid in the rescue effort, logistics would dictate to use park lots nearest to the rescue staging area, which just happens to be where all of the burnt cars near the WTC comples was...

Wow, talk about nicely fitting the actual events...  I guess that wraps up that mystery of the "EXPLAIN ALL THE EVIDENCE"...

I guess Judy Woods can devote her time to productive hypothesis eh? 

Show "9/11 Toad Truck Driver Says: "I May Have Towed Those Cars!"" by 9/11 Toad Truck Driver (not verified)

Jim Fetzer is a

(a) Fool
(b) Shill for the other side

Choose (a) or (b).

There are no other possibilities.

No, there's a "c"

although I don't know if it applies to Fetzer, and that is "both of the above." Certain psychologically vulnerable individuals are exploited for use as disinfo technicians.

Casseia, You're No Fool!

Casseia, You're no fool, are you? And you know all about how "Certain psychologically vulnerable individuals are exploited for use as disinfo technicians," don't you?

You know damned well that one of the first tricks in the disinfo handbook is to call other people an "agent" or say or imply that they are promoting "disinfo," don't you?

But, given how very, very smart that you are, can't you be just a little bit more subtle about it? Didn't we learn you no better?

Nevertheless, if I continue to sign my comments as below, then some big fellow might get jealous, eh? Don't tell him about our little secret, okay?

I think

he's a hologram projected from space. Can that be (c)?

Of course there's no previous case of a hologram being such a jackass, but you never know...

The point of this squabble

The point of this squabble is not to convince anyone of the mini-nuke/no plane/space beam hypothesis, but rather to discredit the more reasonable claims of Steven Jones.

What's interesting about this is how effective it is even though it's obvious, nearly transparent. Despite the fact that we can see Fetzer and company for what he is the fact remains that the scholars for 9/11 truth have been disrupted and discredited. The only solution for Jones and others who wish to continue investigating the CD hypothesis would be to be so completel rigorous, so conservative in their claims, that their seriousness can not be questioned.

For Steve Jones this would mean authenticating his steel samples, and publishing the results of his analysis only after a peer revew process that can also be authenticated. Finally his samples and others should be made available to others so they can authenticate his finding through their own tests.

Perhaps this is what Jones has in mind. If so then Fetzer and company will ultimately fail in their efforts to suppress Jones' findings.

If this is merely a case of

If this is merely a case of ego, bad science and vanishing common sense, Fetzer's behavior is still having the effect of classical COINTELPRO.

I must say also that the junior “no planers” cum “space beamers” seem to have a remarkable amount of time on their hands, appearing in just about every thread on this and other boards and inserting their bizarre theories even where they clearly have no place. They do not appear to be interested in anything except sectarian division and sabotage. Education the public is not on their list of “things-to-do”. The attacks on Jones – arguably our most important scholar – also speak volumes. As Mr. Guy points out, this may be the actual goal of the entire tawdry affiar.

That all of these threads run together in only a handful of (seemingly mentally ill and obsessed) individuals is certainly enough to make you go hmmmm.

Fetzer is functioning as COINTELPRO, therefore I think he should retire to WingTV or return to the JFK assassination. He will of course do no such thing. Likely he will make future appearances on Fox News; he wil continue his irrational tirades against Professor Jones; he will spread his theories wherever anyone permits.

However, with any luck his “scholars” group will become marginalized in the eyes of the movement and therefore the public at large, and he will go with the way of David Icke.

cointellpro

Danse, unless you have a paystub to prove it, I would not call Dr. Fetzer cointellpro. Nor should you call anyone that term unless you know something for a fact. That is slander and uncalled for. Yes, you may hold any opinion or personal theory you want. But one should not come out and say in public that someone is working in intelligence... unless you are prepared to prove it.

Dr. Fetzer and Dr. Jones have had a difference of opinion. That fact does not necessarily a Cointellpro agent make - and I'm referring to this on behalf of both of them.

Did you ever think it is possible that Dr. Fetzer wants to accept the scientific research of more than just one scientist? As an Associate Member of Scholars, I am now pleased to have the ability to research *all* scientific theories on the website - be they themate, mini-nukes, high-energy beam....whatever.

When I signed up, I thought that ALL scientific theories would be permissible, and was aghast to find out over this summer that that was not the case. It is, however, now the case. I believe that Dr. Jones material should be presented - just like all the rest of the other researchers' materials should be presented. No one scientistist has the corner on truth at this time. Over time, eventually however, the truth will come out.

Whatever the truth is, may researchers continue to bring on more theories and then test them. May there be no restrictions on truth.

And may we not put words into people's mouths - I heard Dr. Reynolds in a presentation and he was very careful to say that he has not seen evidence to convince him that flights 175 and 11 hit the buildings. He did NOT state that "no planes" hit the towers. This has been used erringly to dis-credit him and Dr. Wood quite *on purpose*.

It is okay to have a personal theory and opinion on what may have happened. But the science must prove what happened - and that can only occur when there is an open and respectful willingness to look at various theories (not just one). That openess is thankfully what is currently happening at Scholars. And for that reason, I am now again proud to be a member.

Respectfully,
Cathy Garger

Cathy, come on . . .

"Dr. Fetzer and Dr. Jones have had a difference of opinion. "

It's one thing to have a difference of opinion, but it is quite another to air dirty laundry all over a website - a public stage - when Jones didn't have control of it, and Fetzer did. The control of the website by Fetzer is a known fact. The slander he posted on there was a choice he made that none of us would likely ever have done.

It is also quite another thing to use the RESOURCE OF A GROUP as your personal platform to spout ideas which are CONTRARY to the vast majority of the group, like nukes at the WTC for chrissakes!

Additionally, can you imagine being a professor of philosophy but claiming YOU know the science better than both Steven Jones and Kevin Ryan? It is beyond audacious, it is outrageous and idiotic.

Let's get real, that is nothing near a simple "difference of opinion" and I feel concerned that you try to reframe it this way. You do not help the situation by trying to protect Fetzer. You muddle it into something it is not.

Martial Arts Comes in Handy

Fetzer as COINTELPRO? Subversive agents with the 911 Truth Movement? Media attempts to contol the 911 conversation?

Very likely. Guaranteed. In their dreams.

My position: use it all to 911 Truth advantage. You know the saying, any publicity is good publicity. We will need to garner as much energy as possible to break down the mass population's psyche which has been effectually put on a path of a Mass Media belief system: I heard it on TV so it must be true. (Most don't realize is the power of the Mass Media and who owns and controls it). In order to convince them of the scientific facts about 911, such as evidence of demolition and most importantly, the 911 war games occuring on 911, and to convince them that they won't be hearing about it on mainstream media means we still have a serious obstacle to get past. If these creeps are willing to use their energies with subversive agents who have actually assisted in growing the Truth movement, so be it. We just need to know when they attempt to steer the movement one way or another. A great example is the Fetzer attempt to hijack 911 Schollars for Truth. We simply move on, and at the same time we need not waste our energy trying to battle Fetzer at this point. He'll either fade away or try to rebuild a Truth Movemnet which has already sprouted its teeth - he's too late. Let him continue to attempt to shape the 911 Truth Movement, none of it will have negative effect if we keep our eyes on the facts and evidence. Let them help us get an investigation opened and then we'll simply pour our evidence on the public who will be in tune with questioning the Official 911 Conspiracy Theory.

In many schools of Martial Arts, they teach how to use an opponents energy against them. This has proven quite succesful over the centuries. We need to employ similiar tactics considering the 911 Truth Movement does not have alot of money, nor do we own politicians or media outlets.

Show "Steven "Los Alamos" Jones sabotaged free energy" by Anonymous (not verified)

What the f*ck is that? Of

What the f*ck is that? Of course Reynolds is a disinfo scumbag, how can anyone leap to the defence of this guy;

Reynolds could have been

Reynolds could have been caught with an underage girl or boy by a criminal network that runs such things. It's not beyond belief that this guy has been blackmailed. Either that or he's either an intelligence agent or a rabid Bush man, neither of which he seems to be.

Yea that could be right,

Yea that could be right, just like Foley and all the other Republican establishment perverts.

Show "I am amazed how hard a few people around here work to" by Anonymous (not verified)
Show "steven jones came into the" by midnitejunkie (not verified)

he clearly still works for

he clearly still works for the Bush administration.

Shadow Government would be

Shadow Government would be more likely...

Look at Ted Haggart. There

Look at Ted Haggart. There is real dirt on lots of people. And when it comes out, they drop like flies. Whether or not Foley was blackmail (doesn't look like it), it goes to show how fast these people go down. Every time one of these reputations blows up, it's a message to all the other blackmail puppets.

I think we need to look at what dark secrets could be behind every political official. For instance, I've heard that Clinton helped cover up drug-running in Mena, Arkansas. I don't know if that's true, but blackmail can easily create puppets. I think we need to look long and hard at what strings are pulling Lee Hamilton and Thomas Kean as well.

true, and Jesse Jackson quite possible helped kill MLK

which is why he became the unelected "leader" of black america, and why black people are still getting shafted while Jesse goes around philandering between his reverend gigs...

Clinton probably did help run drugs through Mena--I mean, this is the "christian" who cheated on his wife constantly with young tennyboppers--come on! What ELSE did he do? Pardoned billionaire fugitive Marc Rich. I remember how he came out of nowhere in 92 to challenge bush senior--who the hell WAS he?

9/11 Truth is the tip of a huge mf-in' iceberg--ALL HISTORY IS SUSPECT at this point....

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

I just had a terrible

I just had a terrible thought... Morgan Reynolds, Jim Fetzer and Kevin Barrett have been on Fox more than any other personalities that I know of. Now I am not suggesting that Barrett is aligned with the likes of Fetzer and Reynolds, but I do think they have something terrible planned for Barrett.

He shares a radio time slot with Fetzer (Dynamic Duo).

They have given him (Barrett) a lot of attention, most recently on CNN.

Perhaps they want to build him up, so that when they "pull the trigger" all eyes will turn to Fetzer.

I know its a stretch but that is what they kind of did with Judy Woods.

Watch your back Kevin...

Good point!

Good point!

For heaven sake, wake up.

"Space beams" and "mini-nukes".???!!!

Such unsubstantiated speculations do not belong in a serious investigation based on scientific method.

Please, don't compare it with Steven Jones research.

Show "You're right. We shouldn't compare it with Steven Jones" by Citizen for truth (not verified)

lol

where do all you guys even come from? Are you all in the same building or something, is that why it's always on and on with the exact same lines?

same person, one

same person, one workstation, individual non-parallel modes of internet access.

 

Cathy, The place for you and

Cathy,

The place for you and Jim Fetzer to research nukes and space beams is not with the PUBLIC GROUP WEBSITE for hundreds of PROFESSORS who are risking their careers to stay connected to any 9/11 organization.

The place for you to do that is on forums and other venues.

Public websites representing groups have a responsibility to those groups. The argument of "freedom to research ALL theories" was the very same argument used Nico Haupt and the hologram and pod promoters to keep their crap surrounding all the other evidence. That's why the scholars group is based around SCIENCE -- some theories don't cut it because the evidence does not support them. You are free to research those all you want all over the internet, but no one is free to hijack a group for their own personal interests.

Hi Cathy,

Hi Cathy,

I apologize for smearing by association other scholars for 911truth. I'm sure the vast majority of you are sincere and rigorous in your scientific research.

I did raise the possibility of COINTELPRO, but I did not specifically accuse Fetzer of working in such a capacity.

I said that Fetzer was FUNCTIONING in such a capacity, encouraging sectarianism, slandering the important work of Dr. Jones and poisoning the well with highly speculative, frankly bizarre theories which can only serve to discredit the movement. I was startled by the unbridled enthusiasm with which Fetzer embraced space beams, as well as his rather vicious turn-coat attack on Jones. Surely if he was legitimately concerned about Jones and enthused with space beams he could have dealt with the matter behind closed doors, waiting until he had a scintilla of evidence to support his new theories instead of behaving like a schoolboy. I can only conclude that Fetzer is either incompetent, egomaniacal, disinformation or some combination of the three.

I do not welcome the implosion of S911truth. I hope that Fetzer does a one-eighty, apologizes to Jones, takes WingTV off his link list, realizes his error in promoting space beams and generally cleans up his act. But based on past behavior I have no illusions of this occurring. Since he will continue to function as head of this "corporation", since he clearly does not welcome democratic control of this "corporation", and since the most important scholar has jumped ship, I think the group is ultimately doomed to failure.

I think all scientists of conscience currently engaged with the project should resign and join Jones, Hoffman, Ryan and other sound scholars in a new organization that puts the interests of the movement above ego and wild speculation. That's just one persons opinion. I don't pretend to speak for anybody. Good luck.

"Fetzer is functioning as

"Fetzer is functioning as COINTELPRO"

And therefore his next move will be?

- Lawsuits.

- Lies and denials he ever said what is on record that he said.

- Endless attacks on Jones and the new group.

- Efforts to appear on FOX again to discredit.

Are we ready for these? Someone should write up a piece on disinformation and how Fetzer's work -- while possibly sincere -- ended up functioning exactly as COINTELPRO would have liked and needed to discredit and disrupt. Then when FOX puts him on at least there will be something out there on this situation which lays it out and puts it in context so people can learn for the future.

Fetzer as COINTELPRO?

Fetzer as COINTELPRO? Subversive agents with the 911 Truth Movement? Media attempts to contol the 911 conversation?

Very likely. Guaranteed. In their dreams.

My position: use it all to 911 Truth advantage. You know the saying, any publicity is good publicity. We will need to garner as much energy as possible to break down the mass population's psyche which has been effectually put on a path of a Mass Media belief system: I heard it on TV so it must be true. (Most don't realize is the power of the Mass Media and who owns and controls it). In order to convince them of the scientific facts about 911, such as evidence of demolition and most importantly, the 911 war games occuring on 911, and to convince them that they won't be hearing about it on mainstream media means we still have a serious obstacle to get past. If these creeps are willing to use their energies with subversive agents who have actually assisted in growing the Truth movement, so be it. We just need to know when they attempt to steer the movement one way or another. A great example is the Fetzer attempt to hijack 911 Schollars for Truth. We simply move on, and at the same time we need not waste our energy trying to battle Fetzer at this point. He'll either fade away or try to rebuild a Truth Movemnet which has already sprouted its teeth - he's too late. Let him continue to attempt to shape the 911 Truth Movement, none of it will have negative effect if we keep our eyes on the facts and evidence. Let them help us get an investigation opened and then we'll simply pour our evidence on the public who will be in tune with questioning the Official 911 Conspiracy Theory.

Nice post Greenback. I'm

Nice post Greenback. I'm glad to see that at least one other individual on these boards regards the war games -- barely ever mentioned by any scholar anywhere -- as essential evidence and perhaps the key to the entire puzzle. You don’t have to agree with Mike Ruppert on the alleged immediacy of peak oil to come to the same conclusion. You don’t have to be a LIHOPPER to realize the importance of the Atta/Abramoff drug nexus.

The first thing I do when I encounter a newbie is say something like the following: "were you aware that the US government was engaging in 'war games' on the day of 911 simulating hijacked planes crashing into buildings"?

Ironically, the most overlooked evidence I have found to be the most effective. CD works for many, but war games works for everyone. You have to have a fantastic, indeed superhuman (better said, subhuman) dearth of common sense to regard the war games as “coincidence”. I believe that said “games” were intentionally leaked, nullifying Chomsky’s assertion that leaks have been non-existent with respect 911. Never mind Sibel. The war games were leaked in order to make people aware of what was really going on that day.

Anyway, I agree that we're "beyond the point of no return". The agents of subterfuge, if indeed they exist as some of us imagine (and I find it inconceivable that “they” have not attempted to poison the well in some way), will not succeed. The cat's out of the bag. The jig is up. The emperor is buck fucking naked and soon to be escorted to Nuremberg part deux.

They can place Shayler and Fetzer and Reynolds on the Murdoch channel and try to steer us into Roswell territory, but it won’t work.

All in all, the no plane and space beam theorists amount to a minor irritant. Do they have a case? Not that I’ve seen. In fact, their theories appear to be completely nonsensical, perhaps intentionally so. Certainly, these scholars should have at least waited until they had some real, rock solid evidence before pimping their bizarre theories. Allow me to stress again: perhaps a so-called “unconventional” weapon was utilized on 911. Ok. I’m all for that. But let’s find some REAL EVIDENCE before we publicize these “findings”. Sound fair? I think so.

Sensible people stick to what is provable and supports the cause. I agree that any wild-eyed stooge who runs around pimping space beams and holograms should be cause for laughter, intellectual curiosity perhaps, but not outrage; if there’s evidence, let’s see it, but let’s make damn sure it’s evidence and not disinformation or fanciful science fiction before we run around shouting it from the roof tops.

Barring such evidence, I think it’s important for truthers to prevent the spread of viral disinformation. The media masters have a real knack for this sort of thing. They LOVE unsubstantiated theories. Ask yourself: why would “scholars” insist on “my way or the highway” on something completely unsupported?

I think everyone here welcomes any type of scientific research, even if it appears outlandish at first glance.

But there’s a difference here. The “evidence” is no such thing, and the real evidence produced by Dr. Jones is being maligned. This positively wreaks of disinfo.

I’m fond of pointing out that the founder of the National Enquirer was an “ex” CIA agent who specialized in psy-ops. Evidently, our beloved rulers think it quite cunning and effective to “bracket” legitimate research on deep politics with outlandish, purely speculative and often intentionally repellant theory, and no doubt they’re correct. It works really well. We should keep that in mind.

So on the one hand, I agree that 911 truthers are far too sophisticated to fall for the old ruse and that 911 truth is unstoppable; on the other hand, disinformation is potentially cancerous and may infect people less astute than ourselves. Let’s keep a level head and focus on what is provable, leaving wild speculation for personal correspondence until such time as we can prove it.

You'd think that this would be a "no-brainer". Yet apparently, for some who claim themselves "leaders" of our movement, it is an alien concept.

Agreed

Agreed

How about both (a) & (b)?

I am so sick of these wacky cartoon planes & space beams!

This actually hurts because

This actually hurts because I thought you were genuine Mr Fetzer and I don't consider myself gullible. Clearly though you flew under the radar for many people and it now makes a bit more sense as to why "WINGTV" was plastered all over st911.org. Was that 30 pieces of silver worth it you f*cking Judas?

You...

Play the victim well.



"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."

Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member

Classic Gold

So brief yet so poignant!

Show "Lol" by Jay (not verified)

Whadda ya mean, like we're funny?

Show "How?" by Jay (not verified)

Thanks for the tip on how

Thanks for the tip on how this event will be played.  As if we didn't already know...

Show "steven jones is a shill---to" by RANDKILLER2006 (not verified)

pleasure

It's funny how one of the main proponents of the scientific method is smeered as disinfo. Howdy, shill. You make much money doing this? You have your kicks? Now go home and 'pleasure yourself".

"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free" (Goethe)..... a paraphrase from V: Cast aside the illusions. Only when you are finally hopeless can you truly be free.

Show " morgan reynold=shill judy" by RANDKILLER2006 (not verified)

Dr Jones attacked with “Star wars Laser Beams”!

Satire: In this clip Dr Jones (in Robot form, bear with me here) is attacked by three shills from the same organisation that he used to be in. Sent by NOVA Documentaries because of their concern that Dr Jones might blow the lid on their shoddy propaganda piece for how the Twin Towers collapsed, the three shills attack Dr Jones with “Star Wars Laser Beams”. Luckily though being equipped with a better brain and an honest conviction Dr Jones outwits the Shills sent to fraudulently attack his character and integrity, and instead shows these Shills up for the Three Stooges that they are. Much to the disappointment of NOVA Documentaries, but to the delight of the 9/11 Truth Movement who are behind Dr Jones 100% of the way!

PS, Jim Fetzer's a PhDork!

Who's...

Johnny?



"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."

Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member

Ugh...

What a bad song.



"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."

Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member

No man that’s nostalgic

No man that’s nostalgic for me, even if it is a bit bad LOL.

Really great man thanks!!!

Really great man thanks!!!

Here's a couple for PhDork Jim Fetzer.

I think the really great

I think the really great thing about all this is we're not falling for it. Of course you have the few bloggers here who are working with Fetzer/disinfo, but it's not working at all. However, it is draining our energy and attention. Disinformation in the information age, especially with rapid communication and responses as in this blog, doesn't have the effect it used to.

Here...

Is my Cynthia McKinney archive.



"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."

Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member

Have the admins?

Have the admins determined whether or not the newly-registered "Jim Fetzer" account is indeed Jim Fetzer, who had previously posted here w/o registration?

Nobody has a monopoly on the

Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, nor can lay claim to any information in the public domain, and 9/11 truth is not about trying to hold onto, or to steal anything. And the scientific method ought to take into account all phenomenon and information, to forge the best possible hypothesis.

Surely the only "sun harnessed" space beam directed energy weapon used to take down the WTC eminated from the Lodges of Freemasons!

The "toasted cars" OTOH is another matter altogether. AND, there WERE massive holes bored into Building 5...

Maybe Jim Fetzer is the couragious one.

Of course we know from timing them, that the towers came down in about 13 and 14 seconds respectively, for towers 2 and 1, not 10 seconds, as the 9/11 Comission reported. A commitment to honesty and integrity is also very important.

Sigh...we'll get there eventually, to the goal of a historical transformation.

Show "Steven Jones is a proven FRAUD !! TAKE OFF YOUR BLINDERS!!!!!!!" by CB_Brooklyn
Show "Yay! Steven Jones sabotaged the truth movement!" by Anonymous (not verified)

Yay! Isn't that what we all want?

Truth? Who wants truth!

Aren't circle-jerks supposed

Aren't circle-jerks supposed to be fun and collegial? Don't you get lonely sitting in the mush pot all by yourself?

Here's a video of a Thermite

Here's a video of a Thermite experient I hope you are all aware of;

It's a SkyOne program and as you all know Sky is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and is GreatBritains Fox News and thereby global elite. :)
I still think this program is reliable.Maybe it's the British accent that does the trick...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7231843493488769585&q=thermite&...

Looks like it works just fine, but I have no opinion whether it was used or not.

Just speculating here: what about a combination of all or some of the proposed reasons? Does it have to be either or? Maybe there's a reason that we all haven't discovered yet.
All I can remember is that I heard about the buildings collapsing from people on the street in Denmark.I hadn't seen it on tv yet and I pictured that they must have come down like in a normal controlled demolition.
Just a thought: Why don't we contact a demolition company and ask them if they can do a top down demolition,without saying anything about 9/11. Then maybe we could get a tv channel to show it.Again,not mentioning 9/11. It might be a better possibility in Europe.

New Scholars FAQ link

http://schol.digitalstyledesigns.com/pages/faq.html

FAQ

1. "Has Prof. Jones withdrawn from the Scholars from 9/11 Truth group?"

2. "Some people are saying that the new group is deliberately sowing discord in the Scholars group -- is this true?"

3. "I got mulitple emails about the situation which seemed to contradict each other. What's going on?"

4. "What's the name of the new group? Where is the website?"

5. "Who is in charge now, and how does the group operate?"

6. "How do I join? How can I contribute to this group's efforts?"

Good

Thank you!

SWEET!

SWEET!

Long Live the Declaration of Independence!!

I support this statement made recently by Dr. Frank Legge, Kevin Ryan, Victoria Ashley, and other (previous) members of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth:

"Further, on the Scholars' web site, positions are being promoted which are disputed by the scientists specializing in physical sciences from Scholars For 9/11 Truth. Attempts to correct this situation have failed. As of this date the web site continues to promote assertions which many unsupported by the evidence (ray-beams from space caused the demolitions, mini-nukes were used in the WTC towers, real commercial jets did not hit the WTC towers, etc.). We feel that the promotion of these ideas functions to distract from and discredit much of the other basic strong material challenging the official story of 9/11 which already exists - the stand down, the war games, the insider trading, the many strong points of evidence on the demolitions, etc."

-- Prof. Jones

You've got to be kidding.

You've got to be kidding.

This behavior reminds me of junior high school! Maybe even a girls' junior high slumber party.

Grow up Stevie. It's time you stopped using that "dog ate my homework" nonsense!

Responsible Citizen ?!?!?

How can you come up with such stupid remarks?

OK. Take a deep breath and read this again:

"Further, on the Scholars' web site, positions are being promoted which are disputed by the scientists specializing in physical sciences from Scholars For 9/11 Truth. Attempts to correct this situation have failed. As of this date the web site continues to promote assertions which many unsupported by the evidence (ray-beams from space caused the demolitions, mini-nukes were used in the WTC towers, real commercial jets did not hit the WTC towers, etc.). We feel that the promotion of these ideas functions to distract from and discredit much of the other basic strong material challenging the official story of 9/11 which already exists - the stand down, the war games, the insider trading, the many strong points of evidence on the demolitions, etc."

This behavior is the one of responsable scholars who REALLY want the truth out and the real culprits exposed and tried.

I know more scientists that believe the "space beams" are

a lot more likely than not. I know a lot more physical scientists that thought Scholars for 9/11 Truth was a joke -- preaching thermite as having caused the buildings to blow up. They refused to join such a joke of an organization, but are now have decided to finally join. They are quite relived to see that thermite man has goon poof.

This is good and bad

I am a 9-11 truther who tries to convince others of the facts. To do this I need to be able to put FACTS forward not ideas that are so stupid it will turn 90% of the people away.
There is so much evidence that is not disputted that will convince alot of people.
I cannot understand what has happened to Jim and the scholars. It appears that they have watched "Independance Day" one too many times.
I totally applaude Steve Jones for walking away and starting up, with like minded others, a new more crediable organisation.

I can see it now, Jim F on Fox news telling people that lazer beams from outer space caused the buildings to fall, and that will set back the movement 5 years.

I cannot support Jim anymore and I will explain him and the others like him away as fringe loonies.

It is also interesting that even Alex Jones on False Flag radio critisized the no planes/lazer beams people and was shocked to hear about Jims new stance.

Good luck Steve, wish you all the best.

New Scholars FAQs and Answers

Was thermite the "culprit" that pulverized the WTC? ("Culprit" is Jones' term.)

NO.

Is Jones' primary objective to destroy the truth movement?

Yes.. (What has he contributed? Controlled demolition was proved long before Jones arrived on the scene. He's even trying to destroy what's already been proved.)

Has Jones run off in disgrace?

We hope so, but we know he'll resurface with yet another PsyOPs strategy.

Objections to space beamed weapons

I have several objections to the theory that space beams destroyed the towers.

1. The towers fell straight down; they did not topple over
2. The towers exploded in all directions indicating an energy source from within the towers; causing material to powerfully strike other buildings with notable force.
3. The collapse started from the middle of the tower, not from the top which would be expected from a space beam.
4. If the beam approached from an angle it would have to account for point #2; in other words the dust appears in all directions, not on one part of the building.
5. Any explanation must account for all of the 10 characteristics of demolition that are observed to be present.
6. The energy required for a space beam would be incredible; it would be dangerous to use.
7. In one of the towers the antenna fell first, indicating structural collapse—controlled demolition.
8. No such technology is known to exist—the burden is on the theorists to prove that any such technology exists.

Point #2 is enough to disprove the “pet theories”
Point #5 also disproves the “pet theories” and shows why controlled demolition is a far better explanation

If a theory is contradicted by any of the evidence, it must be logically rejected. Therefore this theory must be rejected!

Yes, all theories must be considered, and then abandoned when they are easily disproved!

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

THANKS!

Excellent observations. You put words on what I thought of SB theory. This should end any futher discussions about SB theories once and for all.

Star Wars Beam Weapon --- Answers to Questions

1. The towers fell straight down; they did not topple over

This is what should be expected from a precision beam.

 

2. The towers exploded in all directions indicating an energy source from within the towers; causing material to powerfully strike other buildings with notable force.

Microwaves cook from the inside out.

 

3. The collapse started from the middle of the tower, not from the top which would be expected from a space beam.

Why would starting at the top be "expected"?

 

4. If the beam approached from an angle it would have to account for point #2; in other words the dust appears in all directions, not on one part of the building.

Matter reacts differently to microwaves, EMP, etc as it does with explosives.

 

5. Any explanation must account for all of the 10 characteristics of demolition that are observed to be present.

It's plausible that regular explosives were also used.

 

6. The energy required for a space beam would be incredible; it would be dangerous to use.

Come on.. do you think the 9/11 criminals care? People were vaporized.

 

7. In one of the towers the antenna fell first, indicating structural collapse—controlled demolition.

It was a controlled demotion using exotic weaponry.

 

 

8. No such technology is known to exist—the burden is on the theorists to prove that any such technology exists.

See my comments in this thread and you may think otherwise Cool

If they used a laserbeam,

how come there were survivors in the stairwells in the core of the building?

I guess the weapon didn't

I guess the weapon didn't kill everybody

Well, obviously you just imagined that...

After all, no one could survive having a 500,000-ton building fall on top of them!
So, does that prove a pancake collapse or disprove a pancake collapse?

The survivors.

Fourteen people, including a dozen firefighters, a Port Authority policeman, and civilian secretary Josephine Harris, 59, were in Stairway "B" on the 1st through 6th floors of the North Tower when it collapsed. The firemen had stopped to help escort Josephine from the building at the time of the collapse. They crawled out and were then escorted alive from an air pocket in the debris. The fourteen survivors from stairway B in the North tower include:
(spellings uncertain)

* Firefighter Mickey Kross (Engine Company 16)
* Battalion Chief Rich Picciotto (11th Battalion)
* Firefighter Billy Butler (Ladder 6)
* Firefighter Tommy Falco (Ladder 6)
* Firefighter Ryan Williams (Engine 39)
* Captain Jay Jonas (Ladder 6)
* Firefighter Rob Bacon (Engine 39)
* Firefighter Jeff Coniglio (Engine 39)
* Firefighter Jim Efthimiaddes (Engine 39)
* Officer Dave Lim (Port Authority Police K-9 Unit)
* Firefighter Michael Meldrum (Ladder 6)
* Firefighter Sal D'Agostino (Ladder 6)
* Firefighter Matt Komorowski (Ladder 6)
* Josephine Harris (civilian)

Source: "Report from Ground Zero: The Story of the Rescue Efforts at the World Trade Center", by Dennis Smith

Updated Source: "Last Man Down: The Firemans Story", by Richard Picciotto with Daniel Paisner

First Union Bank employee Tom Canavan, 42, and an unidentified young man were in the underground shopping mall beneath the South Tower when it collapsed. They were able to climb to the surface minutes before the North Tower collapsed.

Port Authority Police officers John McLoughlin, 48, and Will Jimeno, 33, were in a corridor in the underground shopping mall beneath the North Tower when it collapsed. They were pulled out by rescue workers.

Pasquale Buzzelli, 32, a structural engineer at the Port Authority, was in Stairway "B" on the 13th floor of the North Tower when it collapsed. After losing consciousness, he awoke on the surface, on top of a pile of rubble, and was carried away with minor injuries. (He had recalled it being the 22nd floor, but Genelle McMillan, who also survived, said he was with her, and she recalled it being the 13th floor. Ref.)

Genelle Guzman McMillan, 30, a secretary at the Port Authority, was in Stairway "B" on the 13th floor of the North Tower when it collapsed. She survived in an air pocket for 27 hours before she was rescued. She is famous for being the last person pulled alive from the rubble.

U can look up there stories all over the internet. I don't understand why you don't know this. And the stairwells are in the Core of the building.

CB is a fake persona, just

CB is a fake persona, just an account of many that specific individuals have used at this site inorder to inject disinformation.

You may chose not to believe that, that's your choice. 

And....

you're point being?

Your refuting someone who

Your refuting someone who knows what they promote is a lie...

I don't know who to feel more sorry for

Yourself for writing such nonsense, or myself for taking the time to read it.

So let me get this straight:

Microwaves (explosive microwaves?) go straight through the tower, and then manage to cause explosions AFTER going through the tower--not only that, but almost exactly where the planes hit.

That's a pretty impressive trick.

The disinfo war continues.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Show "Yo, Dude. If you'd read the material, you'd have the answers." by Anonymous (not verified)

I know I know

You guys don't have to make any sense. That's not your job.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."