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WeAreChangeboston Questions Barry Nolan, Eric Alterman, Callie Crossley, and Ellen Hume at ACLU event


WeAreChangeboston Questions Barry Nolan, Eric Alterman, Callie Crossley, and Ellen Hume at ACLU event
Constitution Day conversation
about the media and civil liberties, at the Boston Public Library on Sept.
16. When Checks and Balances Fail:
The Media and Civil Liberties in the 2008 Election
Tuesday, September 16
6 - 8 p.m.
Boston Public Library
700 Boylston St., Copley Square, Rabb Lecture Hall

This event is an ACLU of Massachusetts conversation with:

- Eric Alterman, The Nation

- Ellen Hume, MIT Center for Future Civic Media

- Callie Crossley, Program Manager for the Nieman Foundation for Journalism,
Harvard University

- Emcee: Barry Nolan, veteran TV journalist

more details about the event here:

http://wearechangeboston.blip.tv/#1598428

excellent job mark

thank you for being so persistent -- and thank you especially for pushing for mention of the plight of the first responders.
good for you.

ps: amazing that that woman tried to paint you as a larouche supporter. "what motivates you?" ... it's so incredibly sad that everything has to have some hidden, attached agenda. how about "i am motivated by peace and justice. i am motivated by survival of the species"?

I get fustrated too

Just a silly thought,

The next time I hear someone say that this Bush regime couldn't possibly be competent to do 9/11, I want to ask: how could they trust this same regime to be competent enough to have war in 2 countries, control the worlds resources and bring about the NWO without anyone noticing.

Sometimes you just want them to give you "time", so you can show them the evidence they should look at. One on one.

I keep on trying.

Eric Alterman

More obvious frauds exposed by the touchstone of 9/11. I read Alterman's book about the media and thought highly of him at one time. It's interesting how far and fast the credibility of these people plunge when confronted about the most important event in modern history.

That was painful!

I don't think I could have hung in there that long. It makes me mad to watch these people who act like they know it all and have never done the homework but are still so sure of themselves and the shallow opinions they preach. It makes me sick to hear someone say they know history and based upon their expertise a 911 cover-up is impossible! Give me a break why would I buy your book if you don't know about operation northwoods, or pearl harbor, or the USS Liberty, or the Reichstag fire, or the sinking of the Maine, or................!
Yeah and what about the JFK comment? Like of course I believe the single bullet theory don't you? The Church committee got it wrong eh? Oh you don't know about the church committee. And what about this idiot who says they would have had to plant explosives on each floor, duh! How else do buildings fall at free fall speed? Planes can't do that, you dumbass. But it's been seven years how could they get away with it right? Yeah right that's why I'm so pissed off! (It's because of shallow minded morons like you that's how they get away with it!)

Sorry but I needed to rant a little, thanks and keep up the great work.

Well said.

Journalism is in a sad state in this country. Hopefully with the internet that will soon be changing. Soon as in year by year.

Incompetence

If I hear this excuse one more time my head is going to explode.

The proper way to answer this question is to point out that "argument by incredulity" is a logical fallacy. To dismiss 911 truth a priori based on some pet theory about the way the universe functions (ie governments can't keep secrets or governments are invariably incompetent) is not logical. As a supposedly rational species we are supposed to form opinions based on evidence. There is no evidence that Osama Bin Laden carried out 911. There is a plethora of evidence that 911 was carried out by entities within "Western" power structures.

Unfortunately the above rejoinder would not have impressed the audience. What did impress the audience? "Bush is an idiot!" The Eric Alterman's of the world are adept at pushing partisan buttons. It makes "progressives" feel warm and fuzzy inside to imagine that Bush and his cadre are a bunch of slack jawed yokels. Look at the chimp in chief! Hahahaha. Bush may indeed have a sub-standard IQ, but Cheney and Rumsfeld (and Bush's father) do not. Nor Henry Kissinger. Nor Bill or Hillary Clinton. Nor any other of these cretins who manage our affairs.

In future I recommend one of three responses:

1. You're RIGHT that they're incompetent. If 911 was executed by competent individuals we wouldn't have footage of Building 7 or fireproof passports or dancing Israelis or Sibel Edmonds.

2. Plausible deniability.

Who is to say that Bush, or Cheney, or any other Neocon would have had to have a hand in the execution of 911, and therefore be "competent" in said execution?

Christopher Simpson wrote:

“Other U.S. Army and National Security Council documents from the same period [the cold war] stress three additional attributes of the U.S. psychological warfare strategy of the day: the use of "plausible deniability" to permit the government to deny responsibility for "black" operations that were in truth originated by the United state; a conscious policy of polarizing neutral nations into either "pro-" or "anti-U.S." camps; and the clandestine targeting of the U.S. population, in addition to that of foreign countries, for psychological operations."

Simpson is not some wild-eyed "conspiracy theorist" but a highly respected historian.

We know, in fact, that Cheney had a pivotal role in the events of 911 (via the war games, for example), but the point stands: STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE IN COVERT OPERATIONS IS TO CONTRACT OUT THE WORK TO OTHER ENTITIES, THEREBY ALLOWING PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. I would be surprised to learn that Bush was privy to the operational details of the attack before they happened. Does it require super-human intelligence to sign off on Northwoods Part II?

3. What is competent to you and I is grossly incompetent to elites, and vice versa. Why? Because our interests are diametrically opposed. Every dollar in your pocket is a dollar that could have gone to Halliburton. Every dollar in Halliburton's pocket is a dollar that could have gone to you. Viewed from a certain perspective, the Bush administration has been fantastically successful and therefore competent. It has transferred trillions of dollars in wealth from the middle and lower classes to a tiny handful of autocrats.

What is "competence"? I'll be the first to say that viewed objectively, the Bush administration is incompetent -- not only in terms of Plebeian values like honor, decency, justice and so forth but also in terms of values both the lower and upper classes share: such as the continued survival of the human race. Nevertheless, within the narrow vision of neoconservativsm, the Bush administration did all the right things. Most of the outcomes have (seemingly) been beneficial to elites (in the short term). They simply went too far. Not far enough for Obama, evidently, but about as close to Armageddon as I'd care to venture.

Each of these three responses is partly true imo. But I'm not sure they would sell like "Bush is an idiot!" Cluck cluck.

'Incompetence'

'Viewed from a certain perspective, the Bush administration has been fantastically successful and therefore competent. It has transferred trillions of dollars in wealth from the middle and lower classes to a tiny handful of autocrats.'

This is the most critical point for me: from the standpoint of getting what they wanted, this has been one of the most competent administrations ever--laughing all the way to the bank, and back again. That's why GWB was such a perfect selection as front man for this bunch. The Altermans et al. can all snicker in their sense of intellectual superiority while the 'incompetent' powers that be are running circles around them.

I totally agree with all y'all who expose the incompetence myth

In spite of GW's apparent incompetence, the powers that really run the show have gotten their way on just about every issue. Let's not forget that they did this with the help of complicit democrats. Both sides are corrupt. Bush is up front appearing to be losing at checkers while the powers behind the scenes are winning every game of 3 tiered chess.
Bush was not part of the planning or execution of the 911 event. I do think he knew it was going to happen and knows who is really involved. He is guilty of covering up the truth. I don't think every part of their plan went as planned, but enough of it did that they are still able to fool some of the people.

You're absolutely right.

In this video the wonderful Michael Parenti shreds the myth of "incompetence" into pieces in less than four minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQv7oNdAYhg

Michael Parenti shreds the myth of "incompetence"

Difficult task against Project Mockingbird...

If I had one wish for the 9/11 Truth Movement it would be for activists to understand that change will come from below...the people...and will ALWAYS be resisted from above...IE:

...these types of media whores who are both representing AND are part of the ruling class...

Time and time again We Are Changes go to such events and get their ball sacks handed to them...and there is a very consistent predictable reason...

Its quite historical that those in power with something to hide, or some high level status of life styles to sustain, will make mincemeat of whomever challenges them or thier status...

ITS THEIR JOBS AS MINIONS SO THAT THEY CAN STAY IN THE RULING CLASS'S "SPECIAL CLUBS"...

I suggest that you try CI...Civil Informationing...informing regular people on the street...which works at being our own media, at being our own educators and at working with the "people" who will be the force behind whatever positive changes there might be.

Anyone who thinks that you are going to breeze into any event featuring the Eric Altermans of the world and that you will get out in anything less than embarrassment [in multiple forms], just doesn't get what Project Mockingbird is all about...

...or the fact that we are in the "ruled class"...and that they are the rulers...for now.

One cannot go to the ruling class and ask them to give up their world for the sake of being fair...its just folly!

This is just another example of the media tools of the ruling class doing its work to keep the ruling class the ruling class...and the ruled class the ruled class.

And if you think that the ACLU and those who are at the top running it are gonna support another 9/11 investigation, then you are NOT paying attention...DOT...DOT...DOT...DOT...

Same group as the top levels of the Peace Movements.

Did I mention that those in charge of things in the Democratic Party had Jimmy Carter bounced from Obama's OWN convention in Denver...BECAUSE...Carter has said many things that expose the injustice in the Israeli-Palestinian issue? If not, I just have...

The only way things will change is from the bottom up...and it will NEVER come from the top down...they have everything to loose...including their historically inaccurate positions surrounding the events on 9/11...

DOT...DOT...DOT...DOT...

Love, Peace and Progress...

Robin Hordon

Be the media

The WAC movement is driven by a (correct) evaluation that MSM has fallen asleep and is at the mercy of its corporate controllers. This is very true, and it's not just 911truthers who know this. So what should we do? We should, ourselves, become the media. The problem is with the definition of what it means to "be the media." The job of anyone in media is to collect information and disseminate it to the public through its network. Sometimes, that involves confronting public figures to get the "true" information, but more often it means hours of research and writing, and vetting the information for a sound presentation. Sometimes, the WAC reporters do a great job, cornering people like Rove, Zelikow, Silverstein and the like. But way too often, WAC is consumed with "celebrity" status and confronts people who's opinions have nothing to do with obtaining any real facts. It's a show -- one meant to embarrass and/or humiliate other media personalities or celebrities, and those being attacked see right through it. For whatever reason, the WAC crowd cannot see that "civil informationing" IS, in and of itself, being the media -- ie. getting info to the public via their network.

To be fair to Mark, he is a one-man truth movement himself -- out in the streets several days a week handing out flyers -- alone if no one will help him, monitoring web sites and supporting every truth activity in the Boston area, using all his disposable income for 911 truth. And yes, he likes to be on-camera and try to zing it to the media whores whenever he can, almost always getting his balls handed to him on a platter.

My advice to WAC is put in the hours of time researching your subjects, or don't bother going public or on camera. Public figures are hounded all the time and have an arsenal of weapons to deflect criticism. And don't think the "truth" is a weapon against these people. The "truth" is a cause, not a weapon -- at least with these types. And though I think it's a pointless endeavor, if anyone wants to confront someone in the media, it's the facts and inconsistencies about THEM, the people you are confronting and what THEY have said and written, and not the facts about 9/11 that will give you any hope catching them in their misrepresentations or blatant lies. If you want to confront someone who has written books and articles about 9/11, you better have read ALL their writing and dissected it very carefully, with iron-clad facts to prove them wrong, otherwise they will just crack a joke and make you look like a conspiracy loon. To be effective at "being the media" requires doing a better job at it than our corporate counterparts -- but the rules for doing a good job are the same for both.

911Peacenick?

the assumptions you make are not entirely correct. i suggest you take some of you own advice and get to work. otherwise if you are not leading by example your criticism is practically worthless in my opinion. if this is not the direction you want to take lead by example and charge down another path. mark m. as of yet i know of very little you have accomplished for this movement. please prove me wrong.
-mark o