Jesse Ventura: US should abolish inherently corrupt political parties

This video is from ABC's Good Morning America, broadcast Oct. 13, 2010.

By David Edwards and Ron Brynaert
Wednesday, October 13th, 2010

Relishes hosting conspiracy show because I love to attack our government'; ABC host: Ventura's most 'out there' theory is US was warned about 9/11

A dozen years after shocking the nation with an upset win as an Independent candidate in the 1998 Minnesota gubernatorial election, former wrestler Jesse Ventura doesn't support third parties anymore.

"Win if you can, lose if you must, but ALWAYS cheat," Jesse "The Body" Ventura infamously said in his days as a wrestling villain, but Tuesday night he blasted such Machiavellian philosophies.

Ventura told ABC's George Stephanopoulos that he wouldn't vote for his former employer Linda McMahon in her bid to become Senator even if he could "[b]ecause i don't vote for Democrats or Republicans. If she ran as an independent, she could possibly get my endorsement. But I refuse."

Ventura added, "I no longer support the third party movement."

"Why not?" the ABC interviewer asked.

Ventura elaborated, "I believe the system is so corrupt, the two parties have corrupted it so bad, that any thirty party, in which to be successful, will likewise have to corrupt itself. If you already have a two-headed monster, why would you need three?"

The answer is "to abolish parties," Ventura added. "Do not put a name of a party below the person's name on the ballot. It's too easy to say, I'm a Republican. And you walk in: Republican, Republican, Republican. You're voting the party, not the person. And that's the way it's all set up."

Ventura also appeared on CNN Tuesday night, telling Larry King (video at this link) why he enjoys hosting his "Conspiracy Theory" show, "I love to attack our government."

Two weeks ago, USA Today spoke to Ventura about why he thought "there can't be any change."

"Notice I lump them together," he says. "I don't distinguish between the two because it's very much like pro wrestling. You (give) interviews on TV like you hate each other, to draw crowds and attention and make money. But behind closed doors, you'll go out to dinner with each other. Well, the Democrats and Republicans are the same way. They're not adversaries; they just make believe they are to the American public."

In fact, Ventura, who ran as an independent and a member of the Reform Party, says he's no longer even into that. "I do not support the third party movement anymore," he says. "I now advocate the abolishment of all political parties. We've allowed the parties to take over the government."

An article for The Hill published Wednesday notes, "A majority of likely voters think a viable third party would be good for American politics, according to a new poll of likely voters in 10 key open House districts."

Fifty-four percent of respondents in The Hill 2010 Midterm Election Poll said they’d like an alternative to the Democrats and Republicans.

That number rose to 67 percent for self-identified independents. But even a plurality in the established parties — 49 percent of Democrats and 46 percent of Republicans — said they’d like another choice.

“That’s probably the strongest number I’ve seen in a poll of people in America saying that they're interested in a third party,” said pollster Mark Penn.

ABC host: Ventura's most 'out there' theory is US was warned about 9/11

At his ABC News blog, Stephanopoulos notes, "Ventura was on to tout the second season of his show 'Conspiracy Theory,' and he weighed in with some of his theories."

Most out there? That the U.S. government was in on the 9-11 plot.

“Most people attack me because I question 9/11 now and…when people attack me I always go ‘What have you studied about it other than what the government has told you and sound bite news has told you,’” he said.

“My theory is that we certainly knew it was going to happen and we did nothing to stop it,” Ventura said.

"How can you say that?" the ABC host then asked, even though the former Minnesota governor hadn't directly accused the Bush administration of complicity, but Ventura's response was left out of his blog account.

Easy. Take a look at evidence. The NSA was predicting it as early as may. Condoleezza Rice stood there in August and said, "How did we know they were going to hijack planes and run them into buildings?" The August memo said, "Hijack planes and run them into buildings."

Ventura's facts appear to be a little bit off.

The August of 2001 memo (PDF link), which wasn't declassified until 2004, does warn about Qaeda threats to hijack planes, but doesn't specifically address plots to "run them into buildings."

Before it was declassified, the New York Times reported, "President Bush was told more than a month before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, that supporters of Osama bin Laden planned an attack within the United States with explosives and wanted to hijack airplanes, a government official said Friday."

The disclosure appears to contradict the White House's repeated assertions that the briefing the president received about the Qaeda threat was ''historical'' in nature and that the White House had little reason to suspect a Qaeda attack within American borders.

Members of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks have asked the White House to make the Aug. 6 briefing memorandum public. The A.P. account of it was attributed to ''several people who have seen the memo.'' The White House has said that nothing in it pointed specifically to the kind of attacks that actually took place a month later.

The Congressional report last year, citing efforts by Al Qaeda operatives beginning in 1997 to attack American soil, said that operatives appeared to have a support structure in the United States and that intelligence officials had ''uncorroborated information'' that Mr. bin Laden ''wanted to hijack airplanes'' to gain the release of imprisoned extremists. It also said that intelligence officials received information in May 2001, three months earlier, that indicated ''a group of bin Laden supporters was planning attacks in the United States with explosives.''

However, another document did indeed include such a warning.

In its interactive 9/11 "terror clues" graphic, CBS News noted, "US intelligence learns that a 'group of unidentified Arabs planned to fly an explosive-laden plane from a foreign country into the World Trade Center,' according to a report released by congressional investigators Sept. 18, 2002. The information was passed on to the Federal Aviation Administration and FBI, which took little action on it. The group may now be linked to bin Laden, the report says."


could be on to something. Personally I never thought of it that way. A third party would have to be corrupt to stand a chance. I just wish he spoke a little more on 9/11. Either way he is a great guy with some balls between his legs. It's a shame more Americans don't speak their minds the way this man does.

Infiltrate Major Parties With Patriot Candidates

Infiltrating the major parties with Patriot candidates may be easier than major party abolishment or the creation of other parties.

Also, the unelected CFR and other think-tanks have obvious and undue influence over national affairs.

Limiting their access to major public office holders may also be helpful.

Ventura Doesn't Mention Explosives Evidence During TV Interviews

The compelling nano-thermite evidence is never raised by Ventura during major TV interviews. He is aware of this evidence.

Instead, he seems to raise LIHOP, which contradicts the CD point of view that he has raised during other interviews.

He's still a wrestler. Not

He's still a wrestler. Not really fighting, just putting on a good show. I got bad feelings about all the good vibes he got from King, Stephanopoulos, and even Scarborough when he visited their shows. I think he's a slow pressure release valve for the MSM so everything can be defused slowly rather than building to a sudden explosion.

Commercial Success

When Jesse appears on TV shows, by his own admission, the ratings are high. He also likes to sell books and get paid for his TV series, which gets lots of free publicity from his appearances. While he knows exactly what happened on 9/11, as he's a friend of Alex Jones, besides doing his own research, he also knows how far he can push the truth and still be invited on MSM shows. So, it's not really a question of what he believes and why he won't mention, but that he won't, pure and simple.

didn't jesse basically say that cheney. . .

. . . not bush, made it happen on purpose, here? jessse really didn't have much of chance to get going this time around. i think that was the problem. or maybe he consciously decided to tone it down to LIHOP to reach more new people? either way, i'm glad he's on the side of 9/11 truth.

good clip

i like the clip of jesse on the view

Do NOT vote me down!

I'm just guessing here, but the following blog may have something to do with why Ventura does not bring up the nanothermite question that often anymore.

I hope I'm wrong.


I've stressed time and again the need for careful and controlled aluminothermic experiments that effectively (and safely) show a nanothermite reaction cutting through an isolated piece of structural steel. I believe under the right conditions, it can happen. But we need a video to prove it once and for all.

This has long been known

And was reported @ "screwloosechange".

The fact is, Jesse Ventura's conspiracy show used the same tactics as National Geographic: deceptive editing. Of course, having Van Romero do the experiment is a big mistake: one should expect an 'experiment' from him which is set up to fail. Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" is entertainment, nothing more, nothing less.

So far, all we have is this:

But that is a piece of rebar, not a steel column.

More here.

What in heck is a ¨patriot¨

besides a ´"refuge for scoundrals".

I take your point though

running candidates on a Truth about Terror platform. I just don´t care for vague and intentionally vague terms like Patriot. All in the eyes of the beholder and of course we can´t judge a person by what he calls himself.

I've thought this way for years

and it's nice to hear someone sitting there saying it.

This country was not created with political parties, they just couldn't stop that from happening. Now look at how power works. Germany has multiple parties. The US has onyl two major parties. These are power structures. There is a math to it. We can vote independently, and we each only get one vote, or, we could mass a bunch of us together, and vote as a party, and take control of the office. The most powerful wins, and so America is a two-party system. As of 1854, these have been the democrats and the republicans.

Political ideologies are stupid. All ideology is stupid. We don't need capitalism, fascism, racism, liberalism, conservatism, fundamentalism, socialism, communism, or religion. All information is there prior to ideology, which is just a way to organize it, and the people, into some directed way upon it. Ideology is a tool for controlling populations, and no information is lost when ideology is discarded.

I love to see Jesse up there with that wonderfully dissenting patriotism to say these things. That message is important for the American people, because it can suck life out of those two windbags (dems and repubs).

Speaking of how since the beginning people in America have formed political parties, it is time to consider another one. The 911 Truth party. Look at the polls on how many truthers there are. All political candidates have to worry about large unions and such as well, because of how many votes that can swing, and they don't step on the toes of large religious groups either. For us, this would not be a political ideology, it would be a 911 Truth Union. It's so American.

And I definately support swinging to politically independent and to spreading the message for others to do the same, and to help suck the life out of these two most powerful organizations in the world. Power is what they is.

Nobody messes with Jesse

One of the most successful 3rd party candidates in American history disowns the system and says he doesn't support a corrupted alternative. He's so real and clear, no wonder the MSM can't take him out. Even with a small verbal blunder.

Another solid appearance.

Thank you Gov. Ventura.

September 25, 2010, Jesse Ventura discussed his book...


On September 25, 2010, Jesse Ventura discussed his book, "American Conspiracies: Lies, Lies, and More Dirty Lies that the Government Tells Us".
During the session before an SRO audience, he charged that the Huffington Post, aka HuffPost, a news web site, “censored my 9/11 article!”
Mr. Ventura was speaking at Baltimore’s BookFest. He was joined on the program by Richard Sher, an ex-news reader for WJZ-TV in Baltimore, MD.

At the beginning of the above video talking about the Tower and 'demolitions', Jesse mentions "...that is not a collapse..."
Jesse is referring to "what do you actually observe?" as below:

SIDENOTE - Today, InfoWars has a good summary of some of the recently released NIST videos about WTC 7...

If a building's TOP is disintegrating...

... how could it be a collapse?

Vesa, Did you make this gif? It is cool.

I think I did

But please use this address:

But now I'd like to create Flash animations of the WTC 7 "collapse". If anyone can suggest a good, free animation program...

9/11 ANIMATIONS - link

I am trying to get people to post their animations here...

I used a free trial (20 times) with "Easy GIF Animator" for the animation below.
It has been simple (and I am not computer literate).
I used Powerpoint ("Save as .jpg" ) to make some of the script photos.

An excellent method of dissemination is for people to use animations as an avatar for "message boards" and "Meet-up Groups".
I would like to see people join "Meetup Groups" of any topic and then use a 9/11 avatar. Other members of that topic's Meetup Group then see the 9/11 message.

Typically, animated avatars require a small original dimension.

Oct 15th - Friday - TruTV "Conspiracy Theory" begins

All new 10P FRIDAYS (11pm Eastern, 8 pm Pacific)

Jesse Ventura and his team of investigators are on a mission to examine some of the most frightening and mysterious conspiracy allegations of our time. They review evidence and meet with experts and eyewitnesses to learn more about such topics as the JFK assassination, Area 51 and a possible plot to kidnap our nation’s water supply. "This is my personal journey," Ventura says, "to prove that there is more to these stories than you know about."

Ha!...listen to the guy talk about the "wackos" believing the conspiracy about the World Trade Center.

The JFK case is extremely easy

It was LBJ.

Jack Ruby said it:

Madeleine Duncan Brown, LBJ's mistress said it:

RFK indicated it:

Case closed. The rest is fluff. Who cares who was at the Knoll?

Isn't he a trained demolitions expert

from his Navy Seals days..?

And yet, he states that at most, they knew in advance but ALLOWED the event to take place, abeit that's still criminal negligence and aiding and abetting in conspiracy to commit mass murder..

Is he off the CD aspect now, to as to appear more "reasonable"..? Is that it?

I don't get it..

I don't get it either

but after watching this man he must have his reasons. I do not want to speculate what his reasons are but he does know 9/11 was an inside job and that the three buildings came down by controlled demolition. You can count on that. Perhaps he will drop a 9/11 truth bomb in the near future after he gets everyones attention.

Cmon guys........

.....this is Jesse Ventura. He's been pushing all aspects of 911truth on MSM more that any other pop personality. He's written a book and has a TV show that advances the cause. And you're questioning him?

The media loves him and he keeps getting invited back to these shows, which if I were to speculate, is one of the reasons why when asked about his "conspiracy theories" he doesn't come out of left field with nano-thermite or explosions before the planes hit, etc.

And what DOES he say? He says all that people know about 9/11 is what the government and the media tell them. He's slamming the media right to their face. Jesse loves a fight -- a man who loves the ring. He's also someone who's not accustomed to losing. It was a body blow directed at MSM and Stephanopoulos didn't like it at all.

I love watching Jesse to see how he's gonna catch these shmucks off-guard. Jesse fights to win, and he's smart about it.

Go Jesse.

I agree.

He is so far ahead of all of our political leaders, journalists, etc................
(excepting a few great journalists, of course, on sites like here, opednews, globalresearch, etc).
But, really, he is awesome.
Now, if they would only let him talk a bit more.
Well they did the next best thing..............they plugged his show.

Cass Sunstein must be reeling!

who is Cass Sunstein? I have

who is Cass Sunstein? I have seen you use that name alot. Blogger? Site owner?

Ha ha

I hope this is a joke ;-)


It often is hard to stay abreast of all the news.

Cass Sunstein on wiki is here...
Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in the Obama administration

911BLOGGER has many articles about him...

Obama's own regulatory czar Cass Sunstein published a white paper (2008) in which he labeled 9/11 conspiracy theorists extremists and outlined methods to infiltrate their ranks and/or entrap them into committing criminal acts and pervert their free speech.

He and his co-author suggest tactics such as...
..."Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action."


He advocated taxing or even illegalizing "conspiracy theorizing".

He mentioned using Popular Mechanics as a propaganda front to disarm conspiracy theories, to me that stuck out as rather hilarious.

And don't forget: Sunstein was neither the first nor the last to suggest such tactics.

Ahh Snow Crash I failed you hehe

Missed the full story on this one. Heard about it only partially.

Hey no problem

I just laughed out loud when you asked if Cass Sunstein was the site owner :-) Maybe Sunstein owns though!

"Expanding the cast further, one may see the game as involving four players: government officials, conspiracy theorists, mass audiences, and independent experts – such as mainstream scientists or the editors of Popular Mechanics – whom government attempts to enlist to give credibility to its rebuttal efforts."

Very Disturbing!

Hahah I see, I meant more like an owner of a website in general or blogger from a random site. Just cause pfgetty suggested I liked Sunstein in another thread.

Give Jesse a little more credit.

He's done his homework on 9/11, did a whole episode of his show on it last year, and has said of the tower collapes: "...that is not a collapse..."

From this interview one shouldn't conclude he doesn't accept CD or any of the rest of the evidence. He chose his words carefully: “My theory is that we certainly knew it was going to happen and we did nothing to stop it,” In other words, yes, we knew it and didn't stop it because it was we who planned it. What he said doesn't rule out Inside Job as additionally true. Jesse seems to be aware of an elaborate slow motion shift going on right now; MSM taking these quick, fleeting dips into the 9/11 waters, almost as if to brace the masses for more, much icier water ahead.

"How can you say that?" asked George Stephanopoulos, former Clinton White House insider (with a remarkably straight face)!

It's another fissure in a weakening dam that's doomed to break.

good point.

What he does is go far, far further, in that one sentence, than ALL of our political leaders, and further than ALL f the msm journalists, and almost all of the alternative media outlets.
Ok, I'd have him go all the way. But he has gone so very far, it is hardly not worth the difference.

I understand.

Thanks for your comments.

That all makes sense, that he's very careful about precisely what he says, and where, based on limits, and I can see that he's just being tactical, and not wishing to alienate.

Saying the buildings were blown up, when the fake cause of plane impacts is going to be thrown in your face, might be considered "leading with the chin".

I like him too, just hope he's not in any way any sort of controlled opposition who's purpose it is to undermine us in any way, and from what I've seen so far, that's a difficult contention to make in the face of his work to bring the truth to light.

Keep at them Jesse! We'll get there, and then CD will be totally obvious, to everyone with eyes and a brain.


“My theory is that we certainly knew it was going to happen and we did nothing to stop it,” Ventura said.

Extremely implausible. Let us imagine, for a moment, Hani Hanjour barreling toward the Pentagon while Rumsfeld was having his morning donuts. And they didn't run for their lives. Not.


AA 77 was hijacked a second time, and this time, it suddenly did a harrowing, spiraling dive towards a preprogrammed target, to the amazement of the patsy behind the control yoke.

P.S.: Have you ever read this?

"According to Sakka, Nawaf al-Hazmi was a veteran operative who went on to pilot the plane that hit the Pentagon. Although this is at odds with the official account, which says the plane was flown by another hijacker, it is plausible and might answer one of the mysteries of 9/11."

"The Pentagon plane performed a complex spiral dive into its target. Yet the pilot attributed with flying the plane “could not fly at all” according to his flight instructors in America. Hazmi, on the other hand, had mixed reviews from his instructors but they did remark on how “adept” he was on his first flight."

"Paul Thompson, author and 9/11 researcher, said Sakka’s account was credible. “I think there is a lot more about the history of the hijackers that needs to be found out and Sakka’s claim may resume the debate about just how much was known about them before 9/11,” he said. "

I'm not sure how much credence I should lend this story, but it's interesting nonetheless, especially if Paul Thompson is asked for his opinion.


He understands well how to go at this, for him.

Once people grasp LIHOP, based on nothing more or less than PUBLIC RECORD information, then it's on to MIHOP, and the proof that the plane impacts most certainly did NOT bring those buildings down like that and could not possibly have done so, according to the immutable laws of physics.

Btw, I am convinced that Jesse is a fan of 9/11 blogger and reads us here. Thanks Jesse for what you've been doing on this vitally important historical issue, we appreciate it Big Time.

The 9/11 Truth Movement MUST Remain A-Poilitical...

Look gang...

The HI PERPS and their accomplices and gatekeepers include Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians and Independents like John McCain, John Kerry/Bill Clinton, Ron Paul and Joe Leiberman respectively...its really that simple.

Had the 9/11TM never been hijacked by Alex Jones and We Are Changes [ALL the Libertarian and Ron Paul-ites etc.], we would be LIGHT YEARS AHEAD of where we are today.


...if any party or candidate wants to agree or side with us, let them do so at theor own risk.

We have to continue to educate the citizenery that their government has gone WAY OUT OF CONTROL by exposing the facts and evidence about 9/11/2001 and that it was accomplished at the hands of:



...and that the ONLY way back is for the CITIZENRY to become more well informed about what's really going on...

...and then to make changes at the voting booth...

...SANS...specific political parties...

...and to elect QUALITY citizens who deal in TRUTH...

...and NOT corporate whores who deal in their own bank accounts...

Left-Right-Middle should feel free to join in with Truth Seeking about 9/11/2001...

...but the 9/11TM should SHUN all political parties...

...AND any specific candidates...

9/11 Truth for World Peace and Justice...

Robin Hordon
Kingston, WA

9/11 truth is very political, Robin,

and there is no getting around that fact.

What you mean is that we need to keep 9/11 truth non-partisan, and I agree that we certainly should not try to tie it to any specific party or candidate, unless and until we create a truth party and run truth candidates.

I live in Northern California and drive a mini-van with 9/11 stickers and a "Cynthia McKinney 2008" sticker on the back. This tells people that I am a progressive (like most of them are) and that I want a new investigation into the events of 9/11/01. I may add a SF Giants sticker to further assist the identity politics involved here (I am also a Giants fan, too).

I don't think anyone has "hijacked" the global 9/11 truth movement (though some continue to try, perhaps) and I really wish you would stop dissing all the hard working WAC chapters, as that seems unnecessarily divisive and intolerant. I think critiquing specific WAC tactics (or anyone's tactics, for that matter) is fine, but slamming every WAC chapter because you disagree with the economic philosophy of some of its members makes no sense at all.

To the extent that we are involved with political parties, we should educate the rank and file, and make sure that 9/11 truth is part of their platform (i.e. co-opt them).

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Non-Partisan is a much better word...thanks...

John, you are correct...the 9/11 Truth for World Peace and Justice Movement is indeed very political...locally, regionally, nationally and internationally...and in the best ways possible for the planet to get healthier.

I do mean that the 9/11TM should be non-partisan...but I slightly disagree with backing any candidates such as Mckinney...but fully understand your POV. Kucinich is my favorite and he personally asked me to get some leads, information or experts about the "put options" back in 2008. But, putting his name on my car would NOT fit with the non-partisan presentation FOR truth, 9/11 truth, peace, healthcare and the environment that I make with my "stickers"...and with my 9/11 Truth for World Peace and Justice public presentations and hand-outs.

I will NEVER back off my point that had the 9/11TM NEVER had Ron Paul stickers [real and metaphorical] stuck all over it at almost ALL of the events, we would be light years ahead...mostly with the peace community. The Bay Area is always blessed because you guys see right through that crap, yet the region is often at a disadvantage because you are amongst an a-typical but wonderful subset of US citizenry...and that is a well deserved COMPLIMENT...wish there were 200 million more Bay Area types all over. So, what works in the Bay Area may not translate, we should remain non-partisan AND at a distance from specific candidates.

We should remain neutral to all parties and candidates because one way or another, associating with such undermines our credibility.

Just like many citizens operate with cognitive dissonance regarding 9/11 making it hard for us to get some 9/11 truth, evidence or facts into their minds, equally suffering such cognitive dissonance is the base of the 9/11TM when it comes to recognizing and accepting the awful impact that the Libertarians, Alex Jones, and the Ron Paul farcity GLOMMING ONTO the 9/11 Truth Communiy's efforts has had.

Thus, its far more prudent and far less injurious to the 9/11TM to keep clear of ALL candidates or political parties.

Hopefully, associating more with those on the left, as has just happened in NYC, will provide some balance and higher levels of overall respect for the 9/11TM than the current imbalance associated with us because of CHOOSING to associate with Ron Paul, Alex Jones and the Libertarian Party have stripped from us.

When I make the point that the ENTIRE influx of Ron Paul and the Libertarian Party into the 9/11TM circa 2004-2005 [and since then] is quite likely a well designed clandestine cointelpro op, you should take my words very, very seriously. This association has built a huge wall between the Peace and 9/11 Truth Movements and rivals only Zinn's and Chomsky's sophisticated gatekeeping efforts at doing the same. [but for opposite reasons] And this is in addition to tying us at the hip with the Alex Jones "limited audience", and thusly, has put us WAY OUT ON A POLITICAL FRINGE just to start.

This is the most insightful point that I can make about the history of the 9/11TM. Obviously the HI PERPS are gonna work their way inside to destroy, distract and dislocate us...OBVIOUSLY they would do the most unobvious ways!

I am NOT claiming that anyone IS a cointelpro agent...but way too many have failed to ask the questions that I raise. Sorry, but sometimes these "truthy things" are a bit tough to swallow.

The sooner that we dump associations with Ron Paul, the Libertarian Party, and any pseudo-libertarian replacement party, the sooner we will burst upward in national and international credibility.

Its not just Morgan Reynolds...[who I WILL finger directly] etc.

9/11 Truth for World Peace and Progress...

Robin Hordon
Kingston, WA

I dunno, Left/Wright

I kinda agree with Robin on this one regarding being apolitical (though I wish he would leave WAC alone, as well).That doesn't mean i don't see your point, too.

Yes, we can't escape the politics -- it's inherent with government. But that's Jesse's message here. The point Jesse is making is that both parties are so corrupt that to engage with them is to play the game by their rules. If we do that, we will lose. It's precisely because there are so many political pressures on us that we need to counter it by demonstrating that we refuse to play along with the political bullshit.

911 truth is about changing the political paradigm. I feel we need to demonstrate that the citizens of this country CAN bring about real change in government without getting all political. The CD faction of our movement is the best example of that IMHO. So is the WAC faction part of that paradigm shift. They are trying as best they can to fill the void left by the media, which is too busy being engaged in the afor-mentioned political cluster-f%#k. I'm surprised as you that Robin doesn't see that.

This is a great thread. I'm glad everyone is jumping in. The fact that we can have a forum like this to work thru this stuff is HUGE.

Kudos, as always to 911blogger as well.

One must differentiate between partisan politics and politics

Anything involving more than one person is political, by definition.

That said, 9/11 truth is an issue that is non-partisan and should never be consciously connected to either a specific party or a candidate for office exclusively (i.e. as that party's or candidate's exclusive issue).

Thus, as a movement, we should not endorse specific parties or candidates while understanding that individual members are free to support whomever they choose.

Really, all I can fault the Ron Paulistas for is hijacking the Tea Parties for Truth in 2008 and being a bit naive or overly optimistic about their candidates position on 9/11.

Additionally, I think a more accurate reading of the eastern left establishment's rejection of 9/11 truth can be blamed on Webster G. Tarpley's clear historical connections to Lyndon LaRouche (they tried to hang that on Barrie Zwicker most recently), than on the activities of any of the WAC chapters.

Finally, we should always be willing to critique ourselves and our approaches to activism, as this is the most honest and effective way to improve our outreach efforts. I think many, if not most, of the WAC chapters have realized that aggressively confronting those who they perceive to be anti-9/11 truth is counter-productive and have discontinued this approach for the most part.

I work with WAC members very productively and have always enjoyed the energy and creativity they bring to their activism.

I agree that 911blogger remains an incredibly important resource for the growing global 9/11 truth movement.

I hope that you and yours are well.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only forward.

I love your post.

Great job.

The REALLY amazing thing............

is that ABC, part of the msm, has even allowed him to say what he said............"allowed it to happen".
They have presented a popular figure that has old us that our government was complicit in the attacks of 9/11.

How very brave of ABC. I know what you are thinking.............that isn't a whole lot.

But it is.............considering that the popular alternative media, the media that is SUPPOSED to go where the msm won't, has censored even this.

This is a breakthrough. Kudos for ABC and George Stafanopolis.

If only Amy Goodman, Alexander Cockburn, Justin Raimondo, Matt Taibbi, or Joshua Holland, all of alternative progressive media fame, wold do as much!!!!

Matt Taibbi

Obviously Matt Taibbi is never going to do that.. he's an arch enemy of 9/11 truth. I have a profound disliking for folks like Taibbi. It must be that grinning, self-centered, smug and arrogant mug of his.

agreed, Talbbi is especially reprehensible

because of the way he's positioned himself as some righteous muckracker. someone has paid in advance for this man's soul.

Flipping burgers

He took his position with respect to 9/11 truth, and it was negative. Extremely negative. He was met with... well... contempt from our side. That contempt probably egged him on even further in his rhetorical bullying. So there's some reciprocity here: he hates us, we hate him, and it's never going to be patched up. Nor does that need to happen, as far as I'm concerned: some people are destined to be the diametric opposite of everything you stand for. Maybe it goes beyond 9/11 truth: maybe Taibbi is just a self-righteous know-it-all, and maybe that will throw him into conflict with other groups as well.

Whatever the psychopathology that torments him, whatever it is that makes him such a smug, arrogant POS, I know people like him are beyond outreach and simply need to be defeated in debate. Defeated with raw documented fact. Given enough time and patience, he will be forced to lie and distort increasingly to defend his untenable position, and Taibbi will eventually lose a journalist's most prized possession: credibility. What follows would be a retreat into obscurity. Excuse me the fighting words, but folks like Taibbi deserve to end up flipping burgers.

excellent point

These MSM types who smack us around will eventually lose their most cherished attribute -- credibility. Maybe that's the challenge we should start emphasizing with them? -- "start looking deeper into 911 or your credibility will disappear at free-fall speed just like the three towers."

I like it! :-)

amazing.....................we agree.

except I would add others that I'd love to see flipping burgers one day.............
I've mentioned several of them.

I don't particularly know that much about Taibbi so I can't say too much more about him.
But I think we are on the same page.

Read this

The Ultimate 9/11 'Truth' Showdown: David Ray Griffin vs. Matt Taibbi -- Part II

And you'll know exactly what I mean.

Surely you've noticed I have criticized prof. Griffin more than once, but Taibbi is truly something else. Taibbi is nothing more than a lowly schoolyard bully.

The tone, the indecency, the brutal hectoring, the hair raising insolence displayed here by Taibbi, when addressing Griffin, is so out of line, so repulsive... You'll hate this man instantly. Not because he's actually a good 'debunker', but because he has the decorum of a savage and a cretin. Taibbi probably recruited thousands of new truthers with his performance, out of sheer backlash. Taibbi is, at best, a parvenu. Disagreeing with Griffin? Fine... but you would expect a certain class, a certain savoir faire from a writer like Taibbi. He was unable to conduct himself in any acceptable manner, and so he disqualified himself. But I haven't forgotten his bullshit, which I why I said he deserves to be flipping burgers.

Somebody at Alternet should have told Taibbi that he wasn't in a bar or a brothel, but it appears to have escaped him. It was an utterly pathetic, embarrassing performance. I know that Christopher Hitchens has his quirks and outbursts, but at least Hitchens has some traces of CLASS and INTELLIGENCE while he vilifies the truth movement. I notice it gets me riled up again now. Unbelievable. I'm not Matt Taibbi, I'm not a writer and a recognized journalist and media personality. Taibbi is to be held to a different standard. He failed. He utterly failed. The man is an embarrassment. I would hesitate to give him a drop of water if he wandered into my arms, delirious with thirst, in the Sahara.

yes, the ultimate of Alternet............

and the alternative media.
Griffin: rational, objective, careful...............needs a lot of space to get his word out

Taibbi......brash, cutting, obnoxious, slicing.

I applaud Jesse

For sticking to his principles, and internally knowing truth, justice, and the American way. Even if it means that one has to step outside of the normal guidelines of conformity, and express oneself, with what one believes to be the truth.
Having been one that has been on the inside of the way our government works, Mr. Ventura does truly have his finger on the pulse.
As a wrestler, I might not have trusted him, yet as an American, I do.

That Stephanopoulos went right into a 9/11 question...

That Stepahnopoulos went right into asking Ventura about 9/11 is quite telltale to me. George had stated that he would discuss Jesse's second season and with little time left he was in CONTROL of the content of that question...and it was about 9/11. GS could have asked about ANY OTHER of the "conspiracy" shows Jesse did...but he chose 9/11! HMMM? Very interesting...

Anyway, I too am seeing some "bracing" of the public or the slow release of more and more information about the 9/11 attacks seeping through the cracks here and there.

Lets face it, if we loaded all of what we know about 9/11 onto the "average non-believer" with that non-believer changing his or her mind as a would be a HUGE blast of reality...HUMOUNGOUS!

Just like we have found the best way to bring non-believers along is to have carefully constructed information based conversations with them in which we go from what is already known by that person into what we want them to know...and still suggest that THEY DECIDE, its possible that the MSM may be doing the same with their audiences.

I thought that Jesse did a very good job of leaving two main points that a non-believing public could get their arms around as a first step...

...the buildings were blown...

...and the government knew about 9/11 and did not prevent it.

This is DAMN GOOD STUFF with Stephanopoulos on MSM...damn good stuff indeed!

9/11 Truth for World Peace and Justice

Robin Hordon
Kingston, WA

PS: Someday the likes of Obama will come to understand that the very best tactic to respect the Muslim world and to take a STRONG PROBLEM SOLVING POSITION regarding the Israeli-Palestine issue, [along with trying to heal all the murder from the drones that we are conducting], is to look at the events of 9/11 more openly...perhaps even beginning to accept more responsibility. Thirty-to-fourty million Jews...versus...1.3 BILLION Arab/Muslims in the world [along with almost all the other countries that suspect the USofA's role in 9/11 AND its imbalanced support of Israel] will make anyone more pragmatic about the content of conversations regarding the 9/11 attacks. Besides, through DRG's work, Gage, Chandler, Jones, Ryan, Scott, Phillips and so many more, the 9/11TM has the PTB very, very well boxed in from all sides...most noteably...we have the Pentagon-NORAD on the ropes. There is no way back now...and full speed forward would be a HUGE shock to the US citizenry. rdh

Robin I love your work. Your

Robin I love your work. Your points about promoting peace amazed me when we met at the march down haight street through golden gate park a few years back. Just one thing I have to say about this quote:

"Thirty-to-fourty million Jews...versus...1.3 BILLION Arab/Muslims in the world [along with almost all the other countries that suspect the USofA's role in 9/11 AND its imbalanced support of Israel] will make anyone more pragmatic about the content of conversations regarding the 9/11 attacks."

Comparisons to the Holocaust are not necessary for you to "put in perspective" what you feel are Israel's and the US's crimes against humanity, if that's what you are trying to point out here. Comparisons to the Holocaust numbers are also very divisive and considered insidious among many Americans (who are also 9/11 Skeptics) and have discredited many of the arguments I have heard in the Israel-Palestine debate. What I am suggesting here is that if one is to equate 9/11 Truth so quickly with the Israel-Palestine issue with the Holocaust numbers comparison to Arab/Muslim abuse tends to turn off most of the people I talk to about 9/11 Truth and the Israel-Palestine debate.

You, Robin were actually the one who motivated me to take these kinds of approach's to my arguments. I learned from you to very much consider how we present ourselves as truthers. I've spread some of your essays around over the years since I saw you speak about behaving peacefully as activists. It was a truly inspiring speech there at the edge of Golden Gate Park. Was great to meet and have a burrito with you.

WHOOOAAA...the only mention that I have ever made about...

...any Holocaust from what I rememmber are two...and I do not think that any of my thoughts in this piece mention it at all...unless I have lost my ability to read my own words. Admittedly, I've forgotten a few words that I might have spoken over a dozen beers or so, but I think that doesn't apply to this post.

Please, if I'm wrong, feel free to lead me to where I tied in the Jewish Holocaust into this discussion. I thank you ahead of time.

FYI...the most prominent point that I constantly make about any Holocaust, and of course relating to the USofA, is that the Western European criminalistic THUGS who arrived on the original ships...and who conducted a Holocaust [perhaps more original to the Holocausty Thingy] that, if modern UNREVISED history is correct, ended [sorta] with the deaths of appoximately 16 MILLION Native Americans who had been clearly [and mostly cooperatively] established for many, many centuries BEFORE the arrival of the WHITE MALE THUGS who raped, pillaged, sold, enslaved and murdered them.

The only mention that I ever make about the Jewish Holocaust is that I find it totally unacceptable that actual human beings are thrown into jail because they wish to study parts of this world's that intersect with the Jewish version of the Jewish Holocaust...studies that MAY part with established versions of the Jewish Holocaust.

But that's just a "Sciency Thingy"...and that happens alot with me.

So, it would be at my pleasure for you to take your "he's an anti-semite" hat from your handy "anti-semite hat rack" and place it on my head over these two acknowledgements of "Holocausty Thingys"...Holocausts that I didn't even mention.

Anyways, thanks for the backhanded compliments...

But I suggest that you consider the BRILLIANT minds that roam and comment on this site before you try to get my hat size! I always try to do this because I get my ass in a bind ALOT with this gang of Truthers. Damn they-we are good!

And here is the rather clever and irremovable thorn in the side:

9/11 Truth for World Peace and Justice...


I do think that my pragmatic math works...

Robin Hordon
Kingston, WA

A true American hero

Love him more and more.

I see a lot of love

for Nico Haupts special little divisional creation in this thread. You guys eat it right up.

Something no one seems to understand: Had the protocols in place that day been allowed to run their course, the attacks would not have been (as) successful.

Something no one seems to understand: If 9/11 was allowed to happen, then people in certain positions MADE it happen by obfuscation and malfeasance, not to mention pure criminality. Thus..

Something no one seems to understand: lihop IS mihop. NOW: (lihopmihop) is divisive in that it takes a group of people (9/11 activists who want a new investigation) and divides them along totally made up lines.

Who gives a shit if Person A thinks the buildings were blown up and Person B does not, but both want a new investigation?

(lihopmihop) causes people to lose sight of the ultimate goal and stand against each other. Stupid bullshit.

You mean...

It's the false left/right paradigm of the 9/11 Truth Movement used to divide everyone? Huh... imagine that.

I say

We figure out exactly what was allowed to happen and what was made to happen. The big problem isn't lihop/mihop, the problem is that for many people, mihop is code for no hijackers / no passengers / no plane crash (AA 77, UA 93) theories. What people actually mean when they brandish people "liehoppers", as you yourself have experienced, is that you reject parts of prof. David Ray Griffin's work. For example, that you reject voice morphing. That you reject plane swapping. That you reject "hijackers alive" nonsense. That you dismiss no Pentagon plane crash theory. That you don't speak in absolutisms. This then prompts your accusers to declare themselves "real truthers" versus the "fake truthers" who are "apologists" for the "NWO". Here at 911blogger these conflicts are relatively mild, but over at wtcdemolition, Barret's blog, and other bottom feeding fringe sites, the real nastiness is applied. Unfortunately, the membership at 911blogger is experiencing a slow but steady trend toward this nastiness, as demonstrated by the initially front paged attack on Donna Marsh O'Connor and increasing support for Holocaust denial and revisionism.

I say to these demagogues: I am not afraid of you. I am a seeker of truth and justice, not a cultist. My opinions are my own, and I will not conform.

So, let's just call it for what it is, Jon, although I appreciate your careful phrasing. I know you'll remain careful and thoughtful in your differences of opinion, but I elect a more direct approach. I can't be too worried about pleasing my peers, because that truly stands in the way of finding objective truth. We must free ourselves from negative feedback, social control and confirmation bias, and move forward based on credible evidence and sound logical reasoning. Let intelligent debate and discussion determine which arguments have merit and which do not.

That said, I also reject "I'm not a scientist"-type reasoning: if you aren't a scientist, then become one. Be a student as well as a teacher. If you aren't scientifically educated enough, then admit what you know and what you don't know, but don't stop learning and expanding your knowledge, while passing it on to others. Critical thinking, in institutional analysis and research of deep politics, as well as science, needs no apology, just a little modesty in proportion to your skill sets.

I appreciate the fact...

That you recognize the behavior you spoke of for what it is. Someone here, I think it was kdub, touched on a subject I recently posted about on facebook not too long ago. I will post the entry here.

One Last Time...

"Jon Gold has also suggested not talking about Building 7, controlled demolition, the Pentagon, and questioned people like David Ray Griffin in public forums..."

1) Jon Gold has suggested not leading with Controlled Demolition as our message because it is hard to believe for a lot of people. As I have learned from being on facebook, it is also hard for a lot of 9/11 First Responders to believe. People who were there. I have also mentioned several times the amount of hit pieces that have been written over the years using the "hard to believe" point of Controlled Demolition AGAINST us. I have also mentioned that production companies like the BBC and National Geographic have also focused on the "hard to believe" point of Controlled Demolition in an effort to "debunk" us. I have also pointed out that our job is to reach people, and that as a movement, our message shouldn't be something "hard to believe" or something hard to digest for the masses. It should be easy to understand, and people should WANT to participate. I have also pointed out that I am not qualified one way or the other to tell you who is right, and who is wrong. I have also pointed out that people believe what the TV tells them, and that the TV has told them that we are a group of people who think that "explosives were planted in the buildings," that "a missile hit the Pentagon," that we are "anti-semitic holocaust denying murdering psycho terrorist sympathizers who drink kool aid," and that it might be in our best interest to act DIFFERENTLY than what the TV tells people.

Fact #45 of my article discusses specifically NIST, and the investigations.

I have an archive of Steven Jones related articles on my website.

2) As for David Ray Griffin. He is a public speaker, he is a public figure, is/was a public forum, I questioned his work publicly. I DARED to question David Ray Griffin. I am not going to speak ill of him because he's sick at the moment, but NO ONE's work/method is above criticism.

I have an archive of him as well.

3) It is important to read what "debunkers" are saying because it improves your own arguments.

4) The people who act as though you must believe this or that, and accuse you of this or that if you don't, are acting cultish, and should be avoided, or talked to about their behavior.

5) One thing I've noticed is that the people who accuse me of promoting the idea that "Angry Muslims" were responsible for 9/11, are the ONLY people that refer to the alleged hijackers as "Angry Muslims." I try to take the religious, national, and ideological undertones out of the equation and try to blame the individuals for the crime. Simply because we have seen enough people killed that had nothing to do with 9/11.

6) I have also said that I REALIZE how important the question is to the families who lost someone that day because that is where they died, so in THAT REGARD I very much support the question.

End Of Post

Now... as for "what works." I have always tried to be consistent. 1) Support the families 2) Support the 9/11 First Responders 3) Ask Questions/Demand Answers 4) Show people the ENTIRE Cover-Up. Preferably the RIDICULOUSNESS of the 9/11 Commission. It's not the crime that gets you, it's the cover-up, and there are SO MANY examples of a cover-up. SO MANY examples of people in our Government doing EVERYTHING within their power to make sure a real investigation into what happened never took place.

So, with that being said, here is something else I posted on Facebook. I'm adding a few new links from the Family Steering Committee.

Jon Gold's Official 9/11 Justice Start Up Kit

Here is the 9/11 Report. I suggest you read it, and ask others to read it to understand the "official account."

After that, I suggest you ask people to watch "9/11: Press For Truth"...

Then I suggest you ask people to watch the companion DVD "In Their Own Words: The Untold Stories Of The 9/11 Families"...

Then I suggest you recommend the "Complete 9/11 Timeline" to get people started...

Then I suggest you recommend this series of movies I made called "What's Being Covered Up?"...

Then I suggest you recommend the report on the inadequacies of the 9/11 Commission's Report compiled by 9/11 Family Members Lorie Van Auken and Mindy Kleinberg...

Then I suggest you show people this list of unanswered questions compiled by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee...

Then I suggest you ask people to read the different letters sent out over the years by the September Eleventh Advocates...

Then I suggest you show the archived statements of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee that took place during the Commission and after...

Then I suggest you ask people to read the FSC's testimony before the 9/11 Commission. Especially Mindy Kleinberg, and Kristen Breitweiser...

Here is an archive I made a few years ago called the "Who Is? Archives"...

Then, if all of that fails to motivate people to fight for justice, you can show them my article, "The Facts Speak For Themselves"...

Good luck!

End Post

My "way" works, and has always worked. On a different note, Peace of the Action is having a rally at FBI Headquarters in Washington DeCeit on 1/15/2011. As of now, Sibel Emonds, Coleen Rowley are scheduled to speak. This is in response to the FBI raids on the anti-war activists. FYI. Also, the Senate is going to vote on the healthcare for the 9/11 First Responders right after the election. It's going right to the floor. So, as much as I hate using the "system," call your Senators and tell them they had better damn well pass the legislation.


You make this site worth reading.


Here's to Truth Action

Somehow I think this video doesn't get around enough. I think it's perfect. Thanks for all your tireless efforts, YT.


That video gave me chills. I remember when we blocked off all of Haight street like that. YT is my hero for sure! 11th of every month!!!! Also didn't realize the dope lyrics in that song, David Grohl is the man! YT's newest site is a great site where I can finally feel confident I can send people who have not read much into the truth.

The problem is campaign finance reform

actually we have more than two parties already. For example in my state NY, in the Govenor's race technically includes the libertarian party with a good candidate with fresh ideas on the ballot, the green party also has a great candidate with great ideas. But because of the reality of financing the message the vast majority of the public will never hear these good ideas. Instead most will hear the lame, mostly unspecified and similar promises from the major party candidates. One of them a rich guy who can help to finance his own message.

In the end Jesse was an exception because he already had mass recognition comming into the arena.

But that just begs the question

As accurately as you have described the situation, this nonetheless only begs the question: Precisely which whorish, rotten-to-the-core entities have virtually monopolized (or duopolized, if you prefer) public office while this system of government-as-legalized-bribery came into being? It does little good to speak of solutions unless one first recognizes that the current system is set up to prevent any such solutions from ever happening. From the point of view of the interests that own the government, the status quo is working just fine, and they will not allow their bought-and-paid-for parties to implement reforms which will weaken their control over the political process.

So, rather than something which becomes possible as a result of campaign finance and other basic reforms (like proportional representation, e.g.), I consider mass desertion of the corporate/war/coverup parties in favor of real alternatives to instead be a prerequisite for such changes. They'll continue to do as they please, letting us gripe to each other over the internet, so long as they know that the overwhelming majority of the vote will be split between the two wings of the corporate party.

What exactly is mass desertion of the corporate/war/coverup

parties, and what are the real alternatives that you propose?

My feeling is that most of the corruption and cover-up exists because of the need for politicians to raise money for election purposes etc. Take the money out of the equation and it's influence will dwindle. Set up extensive ethical regulations with violators of the public trust going to jail for extended periods and criminal types will be forced to flee the polictical arena. The real question is how do we get there from here. By the public becoming involved in the campaigns of the alternative candidates representing real change on a grass roots level hopefully on a massive scale. This may sound almost impossible but what real choice do we have? I 'm listening.

'Power concedes nothing

What do I mean by ' mass desertion of the corporate/war/coverup parties in favor of real alternatives'? Essentially the same, I would think, as you mean when you refer to 'the public becoming involved in the campaigns of the alternative candidates representing real change on a grass roots level hopefully on a massive scale'. It's fruitless to think that government is going to change without voter behavior changing first. With so little support going to alternative parties (to this point), then the parties of war and Wall Street and endless coverups, whose members in office have benefited from the status quo, have no incentive to change their ways.

As for myself, I'm a member of the Green Party, but in a state where it's still in a fight just to get ballot status back (the way things are now, we need to petition just to be able to have a candidate on the ballot). Meanwhile, the vast bulk of 'progressive' support has continued to go toward the Democrats--who continue to provide more of the same.

If only people would truly understand the words of Frederick Douglass: 'Power concedes nothing without a demand'. To demand something of politicians isn't just expressing what you want. To truly be a demand, there has to be some kind of 'or else' attached--some kind of penalty to be exacted from these politicians and their big money backers. But far too many voters continue to let their votes be taken for granted.

It's a darn good thing that Ventura didn't bring up CD

Why do I say this? Because believe it or not, most people in America have heard limited or debunked versions of CD. Therefore for Jesse to take on CD, not only would he immediately turn off lots of people who think they already know that CD didn't happen, he could simply be discredited by the host as not being a physics expert. Using a very specific terms like "nano-thermite" require an expert knowledge if one is to be questioned in the mainstream. Since this is not Jesse's expertise, its wise and logical of him not to have CD be his primary argument.

And for those of you upset that Jesse didn't just step up and say "The Gov't Did It.":

We cannot forget what it was like when we knew little to nothing about 9/11 truth as individuals. Coming to the conclusion that elements of the U.S. had warnings and prior knowledge can be proven quickly with MSM SOURCES! Prior knowledge is much easier to logically conclude as possible and likely than CD. Warnings are very specific where as CD his multiple layers of speculation mixed with provable facts (and these layers require an expert to stand behind them and explain them). If one discovers the blatant prior knowledge first, well then of course one will feel inclined to dig deeper into the subject at which point they will easily learn about CD. 9/11 Truth always gets discredited when we expect people to automatically leap into the 'I know who did it, and they did it with nano-thermite' school of thought. It is simply unreasonable and a bit cynical when we get mad that people won't just jump in that pool with some 9/11 Truthers.

The truth takes time to conclude and Jesse in this case (in others not so much) is very logically taking this time people need to take on this troubling subject into account.


needs to start working with AE911 or at least mention them

However, one look

one look, one re-examination of it, of the buildings exploding from top to bottom to within a few SECONDS of absolute free fall, reveals, in an entirely self evident manner, that the plane impacts and fires could NOT have been the cause, but instead, a ruse to SELL the cause of destruction, whicih was quite OBVIOUSLY via explosives.

All he has to say is - I'm a demolitions expert, just LOOK at the videos of the buildings' destruction, and, don't listen to me alone - there are over 1300 liscenced professional engineers and architects who agree with me, and they know buildings - people, the buildings DID NOT "Collapse", that's not what happened, and anyone who re-examines the video, the physical, 1st hand video record of the event, will see that very clearly. We were DUPED. Those buildings were BLOWN UP.

He could then run the audiance through a simple thought experiment involving FREE FALL from the height of the twin towers, and then invoke Sir Isaac Newton's three laws of motion..

It is very straightforward, however hard it might be to accept at first blush.

err he did.

Go back and listen to the part where he says 'why' he was censored from huffington post...


Ventura will be on a lot of TV stations & in front of a lot more Americans, hope he mentions 1,300 professionals from AE911 everytime.

What in heck is a ¨patriot¨

besides a ´"refuge for scoundrals".

re: US government allowed attacks on 9/11 to happen, per Ventura

"“My theory is that we certainly knew it was going to happen and we did nothing to stop it,” Ventura said."

There are now several books that not only document in detail that the US government knew the attacks were coming but even knew when Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were found to be inside of the US on August 22, 2001, knew that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US for no other reason than to take part in massive al Qaeda attack that the CIA and FBI HQ had been warned about since April 2001. Emails between CIA managers in July 2001 are proof of this.

So what did the FBI HQ and the CIA do at this point?

They shut down all FBI criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found to be inside of the US including the investigation by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt of Mihdhar and Hazmi, even when the FBI HQ and CIA knew that by doing this thousands of Americans would be murdered in the al Qaeda attacks that Bongardt’s investigation could have prevented.

One of these books list every name at the CIA and FBI HQ of the people who had been involved in allowing the al Qaeda attacks on 9/11, what each person knew, when they knew this information and even why they withheld this information from the FBI criminal investigators that had wanted to investigate and find Mihdhar and Hazmi, and who finally shut down their investigation of these two al Qaeda terrorists.

One of these books you can get from and in Kindle format from Amazon at

The actual US official government documents that prove that people inside of the US government had intentionally allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place are included in this book and are also found on the web site for book.

This information backs up what Jesse Venture said in his interviews on MSM with the actual proof of what he said.



Comic relief

Rich Whitney is the Green party candidate for governor in Illinois this year. But there's been a small matter of a typo on the state's electronic voting machines. On electronic voting machines in 23 wards -- about half of which are predominantly African-American districts -- Whitney's name is set to appear as "Rich Whitey".

Whitney is unhappy about this and is investigating what remedy he has. For whatever reason, the problem can't be fixed, even though these are on electronic machines, rather than on paper ballots.

October 14, 2010 Former Minnesota Governor Jessie Venture and

October 14, 2010

Former Minnesota Governor Jessie Venture and FBNs Eric Bolling debate the events of 9/11.

Eric Bolling discovers evidence of molten metal

Another piece of forensic science is the fact that molten metal continued in the rubble like lava for more than 6 weeks, despite days of rain and fire hoses. We know that temperatures reached as high as 4,000 F, because of the molten molybdenum. Office fires and jet fuel absolutely can not melt steel. ONLY a chemical thermitic reaction can induce this molten iron and steel.

this video clip doesn't back up what you labeled it as

and what you stated about it thermite. Eric is just showing them his safe deposit box that he got back from the wreckage.

Watch again... coins are melted together.

I did not mention thermite.
There is also another clip somewhere when he better displays these melted-fused coins.

"ONLY a chemical thermitic

"ONLY a chemical thermitic reaction can induce this molten iron and steel."

This was where you mentioned thermite that I was asking about.

Can coin's melt together by another source other than molten metal? I'm just not sure and am defo curious of these physics Tom. Thanks.

kdub, "thermitic chemical reaction / iron and steel"

That last paragraph which I wrote was not talking about coins.
The paragraph was a segue.
The intention was to mention the forensic evidence which has to do with molten iron, steel, molybdenum. It was a statement about the high temperatures in the rubble which caused molten iron and steel (which is forensic evidence).
The high temperatures required to melt iron and steel can only be achieved by a chemical thermitic reaction, not by jet fuel or office fires. That is valuable forensic evidence.
About 2800F (sustained) for iron. There are other metals which melt at lower sustained temperatures.

(Occasionally, I try to mention basics on these threads because there are many new-comers to the 9/11 Truth movement.)


Consider the composition of the coins. If there were a silver oxide layer on top, the melting point would only be 280°C (536°F). That would fit the finding of two coins melted interfacially.

However, the coins could have various chemical compositions, and even if they were silver, they could be an alloy with various other metals such as platinum, nickel, tin, who knows...This, if I'm not mistaken, creates an eutectic system, whereby the melting point becomes uncertain unless you look it up in specialized tables. Laboratory testing, in that case, would be helpful.

I found this paper, which explains in more detail the complex reactions and surface deterioration silver coins undergo during their exposure to their environment. Granted, the coins examined in this paper are much older, but the same general processes apply, depending on the specific composition of a coin.

So, it's definitely not easy.

However, there is something else very interesting about this video and I'm examining it atm.